Yes it has and in fact I was looking at it exactly in this way before you posted. It is as if there is a force-field between ‘me’ and the actual world, this force-field is very real and ‘I’ am somewhat standing right up to it. So far every time ‘I’ have pushed into it there was not enough force to go all the way through and instead ‘I’ was as if bounced back to the same position, of being right up to it.
So after these failed attempts it seems ‘I’ then try to make that force-field somehow weaker, like ‘I’ could get a little closer and then it would take a bit less of a push, then ‘I’ could do it with what ‘I’ have got at hand. But this would rest on the assumption that this force-field can be weakened, but when I consider that this is talking about ‘my’ extinction then it’s clear that it cannot. Rather it is the passionate energy that has to be garnered even more.
OK so what I take from this for sure is to be on the look out for the various ways in which ‘I’ fritter away this passionate energy. Those “side-missions” are very enticing because they appear to me that they are doing something productive, but they cannot assist in producing this enormous passionate energy, that I can see.
What if an actually free humanity decided not to “reproduce and survive”?
What is that to ‘you’?
Why is it important to ‘you’ that physical humans somehow survive in perpetuity?
Ah, that right; ‘you’ and ‘I’ are reproductive survival programs.
Except, I have 3 sons and you are objecting to the possibility that an actually free Kuba will not be conducive to reproduction and survival?
You could, if it’s a genuine objection, have a few children, and “put to bed” your objection that our species survival is in jeopardy!!!
I am joking! Obviously.
I remember reading Richard writing about this very topic. So what if an actually free humanity decided (obviously the females would be the primary decision makers in this) that they don’t want to have children?
I have lamented publically on here that my parents had “no business” bringing myself and 3 younger brothers into this world. They had no idea what they were doing. 2 dead brothers make that more than an opinion.
I don’t have to guess; if an actually free woman brought a child into the world, she would definitely know what she is doing!!
The thing ‘you’ were blindly fated for, becoming an objection?
The survival of humanity has always been a function of the universe. If humans don’t survive, that is also the universe perfectly doing universe things.
There has been, and will be plenty of “humans”. To me life is an eternal and infinite property of the existence of the universe.
Ah ok I see what you were getting at now… Yes there is no sense in ‘me’ blaming ‘myself’ for going around in circles and neither should ‘I’ necessarily try to cover this up or deflect into something else, there is something key here.
Ultimately this is all that ‘I’ can do until ‘I’ don’t. See ‘I’ took it in the flavour of some kind of a “telling off” - here goes ‘Kuba’ being cunning once more and going around in circles etc. But the key thing is to recognise the pattern, that as an identity this is all that ‘I’ can do, to put it off some more by going around in circles.
‘I’ did begin to see the pattern hence I asked @claudiu if perhaps it has been obvious to all but not ‘me’ haha.
Would it be correct to say that for the woman of Indian birth it was the recognition of the pattern which precipitated the apperceptive seeing which ended ‘her’? Of course the passionate involvement had to be there in the first place for any of this to happen.
I described the other day how during the PCE at 18 I saw ‘myself’ as an “echo playing on repeat”, of course this ‘echo’ can only go round and round in circles. But if ‘I’ am to find a way to allow ‘myself’ to be seen like so, this can be the end of ‘me’.
I wonder if this will make much sense for you but this is what I can see so far from what you wrote.
Yes this definitely seems in the right direction, I remember Richard wrote that as one enters a PCE it can be experienced as if ‘I’ have not happened yet, that is the apperceptive seeing - the mind’s awareness of itself, then ‘I’ am seen for the usurper that ‘I’ am (and always have been).
This apperceptive seeing sees ‘me’ in ‘my’ totality and for what ‘I’ am. So every time ‘I’ “mess up” is a key opportunity to see how it is that ‘I’ function, by applying attentiveness. ‘I’ can bring all of ‘me’ out into the open, exposed to the bright light of awareness, this fascinated attention to ‘me’ and all ‘my’ workings as well as the ‘human condition’ with all it’s workings is what can shift to the apperceptive seeing which ends ‘me’.
The passionate involvement is ‘me’ giving ‘myself’ permission to allow the above to happen.
Kuba: What I can see is that there is some kind of an addiction to the apparent safety of ‘being’, of suffering. That ‘being’ those passions is somehow required for safety, for survival etc. It reminds me of something that Richard wrote in his journal haha :
Richard: Initially one is deathly afraid to actually be here now, as it can feel rather rudely raw … one feels more naked and exposed than taking off one’s clothing in the market place. (Richard’s Journal, 1997, Article Twenty-Five, p. 182)
Hi Kuba,
‘I’ may feel insecure by ‘my’ very nature as ‘I’ am but a contingent ‘being’, a versatile chameleon of ever-changing passions. You are spot on, “passions is somehow required for safety, for survival”, ‘I’ cannot exist without passion, ‘I’ am those passions swirling around the vortex creating ‘my presence’. This very feeling of insecurity can be the doorway to freedom –
Richard: Fear – existential angst at finding oneself to be the contingent ‘being’ one always suspected oneself to be – is both the barrier and the way to freedom. Always included in fear is a thrilling aspect, and by focussing upon this and not fear itself, an energy gathers momentum which does the trick for one (thrilling as in an exciting sensation through the body, stirring, stimulating, electrifying, rousing, moving, gripping, hair-raising, riveting, joyful, pleasing, throbbing, trembling, tremulous, quivering, shivering, fluttering, shuddering and vibrating).
‘I’ cannot set ‘myself’ free … but ‘I’ can set in motion a process that will lead to ‘my’ eventual demise. (Richard, List B, No. 12a, 18 Jul 1998).
Alternatively, when there is no fear or anxiety barring the way, the very next paragraph from the one you quoted gives you a follow-up on how to proceed –
Richard: However, feeling rudely raw about the prospect of being here now is not the same as actually being here now. A feeling is not a fact; it is an identity’s interpretation of the actual and is therefore unreliable as a means of ascertaining the direct experience of being here now. Being here now is to be at the place and time where all is pristine. This pristine place is this, the actual world … and it is already always here. This actual world is original; unmarred, uncorrupted, unspoiled, spotless, fresh and perpetually new. It is alarming to feel this immaculateness – it is frightening in its immediate intimacy – which is why one backs off, initially denying its very existence. What happens though, if one takes the risk to actually be here now – instead of standing back and feeling it out in order to make up one’s mind – is that one discovers that oneself is also pristine. There is no differentiation between that something which is precious and me. I am that stillness experiencing itself … I am pristine, through and through.
By daring to be here now, by being me as-I-am, I have already ‘cleaned up’ all the pollution … by not being polluted at all in the first place. (Richard’s Journal, 1997, Article Twenty-Five)
In other words: allow feeling rudely raw until the feeling of being exposed dies down – then you can actually be here now. And this is magical.
Kuba: I just realised that ‘Vineeto’ did in fact experience being “naked and exposed” prior to ‘her’ self-immolation
Actually this is a perfect segue into a great example of this kind of feeling in ‘my’ life. Some of my work that I do on weekends involves being a life-drawing model for hen parties. So yes it involves stripping completely naked in front of a bunch of drunk women.
To enter such a situation with no ‘protection’ from ‘being’ or from the social identity is a great challenge and it’s something that ‘I’ have become pretty damn good at!
But this is exactly it – To stand naked and unadorned as this flesh and blood body, no pretence, no ‘being’. This is the challenge, the challenge to be actually intimate, the challenge to have no ‘hiding place’. (link)
Yes, the social constraints to being naked, and sexuality in general, provide the first barrier, on the social identity level, to be “naked and exposed” but it is the existential exposure of having nothing to hide which is the more frightening, and you are presently having fun exploring this challenge and discovering the delight of being more and more intimate.
On the same topic you wrote –
Kuba: Oh I will just add, Vineeto, when I wrote the other posts there was some fear/ anxiety as to how you would respond – So yes clearly ‘I’ had something to hide, ‘I’ was afraid of ‘my’ hiding place being exposed. (link)
This is very perceptive of you.
Feeling being ‘Vineeto’ was often afraid for the same reason, that Richard would discover something ‘she’ wasn’t even aware ‘she’ was hiding. Despite our long acquaintance, this anxiety never completely disappeared until shortly before ‘she’ disappeared as a contingent ‘being’. However, the more ‘I’ became exposed, the less fear there was because there was less and less to hide.
Yet despite your “fear/ anxiety” you always graciously inquire into the aspects which get revealed in our conversations, an indication that an actual freedom has priority over the possibility of ‘having egg on your face’, to use a colloquial term. This, amongst other things, is meant by ‘daring to care and caring to dare’.
Vineeto: I have seen it happen with the woman of Indian birth (link). During the intense interaction which preceded her moment of becoming actually free she first talked about her deeply felt universal sorrow for all feeling beings including animals and her urgent question why that was so, and after Richard and I explained the nature of universal sorrow, her feelings turned to doubt, which was then followed by fear. As the conversation went on, she arrived back at her question of ‘why’ there is universal sorrow, only to be followed again by doubt and then fear once more, followed then by cycling back to her question of ‘why’. This pattern went on several times until I was able to point out how she was going round and round in a circle with the same question and the same feelings. She went another round, and was able to recognize the pattern herself … and her mind became very quiet.
Richard was then able to talk to her about actual time – that it is always now and that the person who arrived at the airport no longer existed, even the person who walked through the door a couple of hours ago no longer existed. She agreed and as she agreed she experienced time standing still … and the rest is history. (…)
I am not sure if that made things clearer for you.
Kuba: Ah ok I see what you were getting at now… Yes there is no sense in ‘me’ blaming ‘myself’ for going around in circles and neither should ‘I’ necessarily try to cover this up or deflect into something else, there is something key here.
Ultimately this is all that ‘I’ can do until ‘I’ don’t. See ‘I’ took it in the flavour of some kind of a “telling off” – here goes ‘Kuba’ being cunning once more and going around in circles etc. But the key thing is to recognise the pattern, that as an identity this is all that ‘I’ can do, to put it off some more by going around in circles.
‘I’ did begin to see the pattern hence I asked Claudiu if perhaps it has been obvious to all but not ‘me’ haha.
It is natural to first perceive it as “some kind of a “telling off”” and I am glad you could recognize that this is not the case. The more you become familiar with this ‘pattern’ and recognize the furphy (furphy (Austral. Slang): a false report or rumour; an absurd story. (Oxford Dictionary)) it actually is, the quicker you can abandon it.
Kuba: Would it be correct to say that for the woman of Indian birth it was the recognition of the pattern which precipitated the apperceptive seeing which ended ‘her’? Of course the passionate involvement had to be there in the first place for any of this to happen.
Yes, it caused her frantically busy mind to stop long enough to allow the process of her demise to complete with the help of recognizing that there is only this moment which is actual. She had already confidently and passionately stated actual freedom as her goal from the very start.
Kuba: I described the other day how during the PCE at 18 I saw ‘myself’ as an “echo playing on repeat”, of course this ‘echo’ can only go round and round in circles. But if ‘I’ am to find a way to allow ‘myself’ to be seen like so, this can be the end of ‘me’.
I wonder if this will make much sense for you but this is what I can see so far from what you wrote. (link)
You are still trying to do something – you have already seen (and remembered) the “echo playing on repeat”. Nothing more to do – be here and enjoy and appreciate letting the universe live you. It must be one of the hardest things for you to do.
Vineeto: The solution, as I can only surmise at this point, is accumulating and fostering this “enormous energy” required, which is a passionate energy (without frittering it away by doubt and confusion).
Kuba: Yes it has and in fact I was looking at it exactly in this way before you posted. It is as if there is a force-field between ‘me’ and the actual world, this force-field is very real and ‘I’ am somewhat standing right up to it. So far every time ‘I’ have pushed into it there was not enough force to go all the way through and instead ‘I’ was as if bounced back to the same position, of being right up to it.
You are aware, I guess, that the forcefield is created by ‘my’ resistance, the very aspect of ‘you’ which does yet agree to abdicate. Pushing against it will only increase the resistance, forcing yourself can never set you free. What part of the term ‘allow the universe to live you’ is it you misunderstand?
Instead of searching hither and thither, be a patient friend to the resistant aspect of ‘you’, listen, find out the problem, sit with the fear when it appears, sit with whatever passion comes to the fore – and in the meantime enjoy and appreciate, and then some more, until the exuberance of enjoyment and cherishing envelops your whole ‘being’.
Richard: ‘The felicitous/ innocuous feelings are in no way docile, lack-lustre affections … in conjunction with sensuosity they make for an extremely forceful/ potent combination as, with all of the affective energy channelled into being as happy and harmless as is humanly possible (and no longer being frittered away on love and compassion/ malice and sorrow), the full effect of ‘me’ at the core of ‘my’ being – which is ‘being’ itself – is dynamically enabled for one purpose and one purpose alone. (…) The actualism method is not about undermining the passions … on the contrary, it is about directing all of that affective energy into being the felicitous/ innocuous feelings (that is, ‘me’ at the core of ‘my’ being, which is ‘being’ itself) in order to effect a deliberate imitation of the actual, as evidenced in a PCE [a pure consciousness experience], so as to feel as happy and as harmless (as free of malice and sorrow) as is humanly possibly whilst remaining a ‘self’.
Such imitative felicity/ innocuity, in conjunction with sensuosity, readily evokes amazement, marvel, and delight – a state of wide-eyed wonder best expressed by the word naiveté (the nearest a ‘self’ can come to innocence whilst being a ‘self’) – and which allows the overarching benignity and benevolence inherent to the infinitude, which this infinite and eternal and perpetual universe actually is, to operate more and more freely. This intrinsic benignity and benevolence, which has nothing to do with the imitative affective happiness and harmlessness, will do the rest.
All that was required was ‘my’ cheerful, and thus willing, concurrence’. (Richard, AF List, No. 60f, 29 Sep 2005).
Kuba: So after these failed attempts it seems ‘I’ then try to make that force-field somehow weaker, like ‘I’ could get a little closer and then it would take a bit less of a push, then ‘I’ could do it with what ‘I’ have got at hand. But this would rest on the assumption that this force-field can be weakened, but when I consider that this is talking about ‘my’ extinction then it’s clear that it cannot. Rather it is the passionate energy that has to be garnered even more.
Yep, your ‘physics’ of ‘me’ is a misunderstanding. ‘I’ cannot end ‘myself’ (remember, the last piece of the pizza?). Here is the relevant text again, with highlights for convenience –
Richard: Now, it is ‘me’ who is responsible for an action that results in ‘my’ own demise – without really doing the expunging itself (and I am not being tricky here) – as it is ‘me’ who is the initiator of bringing about this sacrifice in that ‘I’ deliberately and consciously, and with knowledge aforethought (from the PCE), set in motion a ‘process’ that will ensure ‘my’ demise (‘I’ do not really end ‘myself’ in that ‘I’ do not do the deed itself for ‘I’ cannot end ‘myself’). What ‘I’ do, voluntarily and intentionally (cheerfully and blessedly), is press the button which precipitates a, oft-times alarming but always thrilling, momentum which will result in ‘my’ irrevocable ‘self’-immolation in toto. What one does is that one dedicates oneself to the challenge of being just here, right now, as the universe’s experience of itself … peace-on-earth is the inevitable result because it is already always existing (‘I’ was merely standing in the way of it being apparent). [Emphases added]. (Richard, Abditorium, Altruism)
There is most likely something that prevents you from “being just here, right now”, without pushing, acting, doing – just being here now. Richard has good reason to call it a challenge.
Kuba: OK so what I take from this for sure is to be on the look out for the various ways in which ‘I’ fritter away this passionate energy. Those “side-missions” are very enticing because they appear to me that they are doing something productive, but they cannot assist in producing this enormous passionate energy, that I can see. (link)
I suspect, and I might be wrong, your greatest challenge is to do nothing and let “this enormous passionate energy” of felicitousness and innocuousness accumulate and let the universe live you whilst keeping the connection to pure intent via your deep desire to be innocence personified.
Ah well this is good to learn! And this is exactly how it is for me - ‘I’ don’t even know what it is that you might discover which ‘I’ am hiding haha. I have noticed though that when I am being naive this anxiety does not feature much, then my discoveries and writings have a confidence to them which is rooted in my connection to pure intent, then it’s more of an excited anticipation and it’s a lot of fun to converse.
But when I enter a more intellectual mode, when I am trying to work out what is ahead by moving my finger along the map, then when I write it’s a bit like I am a lamb leading myself into slaughter Perhaps because deep down I know that during those times I am not being naive and so pure intent is not active.
Yes it clicked yesterday that to go into blame is to miss an opportunity to find out about ‘myself’ and this is very useful to see clearly. And really this is the same way that I would approach the situation when talking to another. I remember there was a particularly sticky aspect of man-woman relation that I spoke to Sonya about, probably over a span of 6 months or so. And it was exactly this, that perhaps each time she would see 1 extra aspect of the situation and then go back to circling, and this would happen over and over. One day the conversation happened again (over text) and she messaged me all of a sudden and said that she saw it, she saw the whole edifice fall, it was amazing! And she hasn’t been the same since. So it was all worth it, all this circling and coming back and circling some more eventually had the whole thing crumble. So indeed there is no need for blame in any of this. I can see this is another benefit of being actually free from sorrow and malice, that it is possible to engage like this with another and for there to be nothing dirty to complicate further what is already a great challenge for the other. Because talking with Sonya ‘I’ would inevitably get somewhat passionately involved and this only made things harder for her, nevertheless it was all worth it in the end.
As to this “doing nothing”, I will bunch the relevant quotes below as they all seem to point in the same direction :
You are still trying to do something – you have already seen (and remembered) the “echo playing on repeat” . Nothing more to do – be here and enjoy and appreciate letting the universe live you. It must be one of the hardest things for you to do. …
What part of the term ‘allow the universe to live you’ is it you misunderstand?..
There is most likely something that prevents you from “being just here, right now”, without pushing, acting, doing – just being here now. Richard has good reason to call it a challenge…
I suspect, and I might be wrong, your greatest challenge is to do nothing and let “this enormous passionate energy” of felicitousness and innocuousness accumulate and let the universe live you whilst keeping the connection to pure intent via your deep desire to be innocence personified.
It seems this is exactly what I was trying to get at when I wrote about “rising to the challenge of being here as the universe’s experience of itself”, except that instead of rising to the challenge ‘I’ first tried to do some problem-solving to prove to ‘myself’ that it is safe to do so.
Richard: Now, it is ‘me’ who is responsible for an action that results in ‘my’ own demise – without really doing the expunging itself (and I am not being tricky here) – as it is ‘me’ who is the initiator of bringing about this sacrifice in that ‘I’ deliberately and consciously, and with knowledge aforethought (from the PCE), set in motion a ‘process’ that will ensure ‘my’ demise (‘I’ do not really end ‘myself’ in that ‘I’ do not do the deed itself for ‘I’ cannot end ‘myself’ ). What ‘I’ do, voluntarily and intentionally (cheerfully and blessedly), is press the button which precipitates a, oft-times alarming but always thrilling, momentum which will result in ‘my’ irrevocable ‘self’-immolation in toto. What one does is that one dedicates oneself to the challenge of being just here, right now, as the universe’s experience of itself … peace-on-earth is the inevitable result because it is already always existing (‘I’ was merely standing in the way of it being apparent). [Emphases added]. (Richard, Abditorium, Altruism)
This makes sense now more than ever before, the ‘process’ which Richard mentions is the apperceptive seeing which ends ‘me’. So ‘I’ (the last piece of pizza) do not do it, rather by rising to the challenge of being here as the universes experience of itself ‘I’ invite this ‘process’ to happen to ‘me’.
What seems to be stopping ‘me’ from initiating this ‘process’ is this “feeling rudely raw about the prospect of being here now”, this is what ‘I’ was trying to solve by those prior deliberations.
So this is exactly how ‘I’ experienced it working a hen do yesterday, the initial social identity barrier was removed but underneath it was exactly that - “feeling rudely raw about the prospect of being here now”. And this feeling it seems it cannot be reduced anymore, it is that very core of ‘me’. At times yesterday this feeling did indeed subside and I found myself here more and more, and completely at ease.
So it seems it is about proceeding in this direction, of experientially sussing out how to rise to this challenge. The way ‘I’ experience it is that proceeding in this direction it is as if ‘I’ am forgetting something very important, ‘I’ am screaming to go back to this thing that is apparently critical for ‘my’ safety. It’s like that feeling of “oh shit I left the oven on” when one leaves the house, amplified x10 It’s urging ‘me’ to go back, to check one more time that all is safe. But of course ‘I’ will do that forever hence the circling. So ‘I’ cannot wait until the waters are completely calm before proceeding in this direction, then it would never happen.
Kuba: This seems this is exactly what I was trying to get at when I wrote about “rising to the challenge of being here as the universe’s experience of itself”, except that instead of rising to the challenge ‘I’ first tried to do some problem-solving to prove to ‘myself’ that it is safe to do so.
Richard: … What ‘I’ do, voluntarily and intentionally (cheerfully and blessedly), is press the button which precipitates a, oft-times alarming but always thrilling, momentum which will result in ‘my’ irrevocable ‘self’-immolation in toto. What one does is that one dedicates oneself to the challenge of being just here, right now, as the universe’s experience of itself … peace-on-earth is the inevitable result because it is already always existing (‘I’ was merely standing in the way of it being apparent). [Emphasis added]. (Richard, Abditorium, Altruism)
Kuba: This makes sense now more than ever before, the ‘process’ which Richard mentions is the apperceptive seeing which ends ‘me’. So ‘I’ (the last piece of pizza) do not do it, rather by rising to the challenge of being here as the universes experience of itself ‘I’ invite this ‘process’ to happen to ‘me’.
What seems to be stopping ‘me’ from initiating this ‘process’ is this “feeling rudely raw about the prospect of being here now”, this is what ‘I’ was trying to solve by those prior deliberations.
Hi Kuba,
I would say it is the other way round – this ‘process’ has already been initiated and therefore you are “feeling rudely raw about the prospect of being here now” and that you want to remove/ avoid the discomfort “by those prior deliberations” is an instinctual escape reaction, which is why Richard called it “a, oft-times alarming but always thrilling, momentum”.
It’s too late to reconsider now. Hence my suggestion to avoid doing something but rather allow it to happen, let pure intent take its course. Richard once said that the human condition is weird, and therefore getting out of it is weird too.
Kuba: So this is exactly how ‘I’ experienced it working a hen do yesterday, the initial social identity barrier was removed but underneath it was exactly that – “feeling rudely raw about the prospect of being here now”. And this feeling it seems it cannot be reduced anymore, it is that very core of ‘me’. At times yesterday this feeling did indeed subside and I found myself here more and more, and completely at ease.
So even though the impression was that “this feeling it seems it cannot be reduced anymore” it can nevertheless “subside and I found myself here more and more, and completely at ease”. It’s like with all intense feelings, once you stop objecting to it, it will diminish and disappear.
Nice.
Kuba: So it seems it is about proceeding in this direction, of experientially sussing out how to rise to this challenge. The way ‘I’ experience it is that proceeding in this direction it is as if ‘I’ am forgetting something very important, ‘I’ am screaming to go back to this thing that is apparently critical for ‘my’ safety. It’s like that feeling of “oh shit I left the oven on” when one leaves the house, amplified x10 It’s urging ‘me’ to go back, to check one more time that all is safe. But of course ‘I’ will do that forever hence the circling. So ‘I’ cannot wait until the waters are completely calm before proceeding in this direction, then it would never happen. (link)
Yes, this is the very “oft-times alarming but always thrilling, momentum” in action, which Richard talks about – which means everything is going well. Don’t let ‘me’ interfere by trying to “go back, to check one more time that all is safe” or become impatient that “the waters are” not “completely calm”. Let it happen, don’t turn back. Enjoy the thrilling ride. If it was easy everyone would have done it already.
Richard: To put it bluntly: ‘you’ in ‘your’ totality, who are but a passionate illusion, must die a dramatic illusory death commensurate to ‘your’ pernicious existence. The drama must be played out to the end … there are no short-cuts here. The doorway to an actual freedom has the word ‘extinction’ written on it. This extinction is irrevocable, which eliminates the psyche itself. When this is all over there will be no ‘being’ at all. Thus when ‘I’ willingly self-immolate – psychologically and psychically – then ‘I’ am making the most noble sacrifice that ‘I’ can make for oneself and all humankind … for ‘I’ am what ‘I’ hold most dear. (Richard, List B, No. 13, 26 May 1999)
Once you give up all resistance then even the panicky urge to go back will simmer down and disappear.
This is not a little thing you are doing/ letting it happen. It is all really wonderful, and we are all graciously invited to watch every moment of your grand adventure. Thank you for this privilege.
Thank you for your response Vineeto, I am still to digest it properly but I just wanted to write the below before it slips my mind :
I had an interesting experience yesterday relating to this, that yes the drama is very real and yet it is a drama after-all… That suffering is very real and yet it is not actual. It made me think back to what Richard wrote in his journal :
Are fear, terror, horror and dread only real? Is it only an act I have to play out in order to be here now?
and
In the place where I am genuine, no mental or emotional scars are carried. Stress, so vividly experienced in reality, has no actuality here.
So although this drama can indeed reach some staggering intensity ultimately it is just a drama (this is what ‘my’ existence amounts to), it means nothing in the grand scheme of things. Of course ‘I’ am prepared to let this thing play out to whatever intensity it needs to and yet from the other side it will have been “an emotional play in a fertile imagination”.
And I could see it from the “other side” to a degree, that no matter the intensity of the drama - “in the place where I am genuine, no mental or emotional scars are carried”.
So what I take away from this is that it is good to put a green light on this thing and let it play out, it is safe.
Yes it’s like this for me. The things coming up now I see are new things that I haven’t looked at before — which come up precisely because it’s new territory.
And I see for example how one recent aspect, a drive or force or intensity I get involved with things, it’s been part of my way of being my whole life, at least from high school when I have clear memories of it! So I’m just getting to deeper layers to expose to the purity.
That last part is good to keep in mind . We are indeed pioneers here. The ones before us made the way far easier than it was for them, and we are making it easier for the next ones to come after us.
Kuba: I had an interesting experience yesterday relating to this, that yes the drama is very real and yet it is a drama after-all… That suffering is very real and yet it is not actual. It made me think back to what Richard wrote in his journal:
Richard: Are fear, terror, horror and dread only real? Is it only an act I have to play out in order to be here now? (Richard’s Journal, 2004, Article Nine)
and
Richard: In the place where I am genuine, no mental or emotional scars are carried. Stress, so vividly experienced in reality, has no actuality here. (Richard’s Journal, 2004, Article Twenty-Six)
Hi Kuba,
This is an experience confirming that you are allowing the drama to play out and an excellent observation as well.
Whenever I provide quotes from Richard regarding altruism and self-immolation, I am well aware that most of his writing happened before the Direct Route was opened (only List D correspondence occurred afterwards). Therefore, Richard draws from his own experience of coming out of the enlightened state, which was naturally quite dramatic.
Nevertheless, the human condition being what it, is still has the same potential for high drama, and in the end, once committed to and embarked on the adventure, it can only be encouraging and pleasantly surprising when one’s own experiences are not as stark as described.
Kuba: So although this drama can indeed reach some staggering intensity ultimately it is just a drama (this is what ‘my’ existence amounts to), it means nothing in the grand scheme of things. Of course, ‘I’ am prepared to let this thing play out to whatever intensity it needs to and yet from the other side it will have been “an emotional play in a fertile imagination”.
It is been very fortunate that you discovered this pattern of last-minute-distractions because now you can be fully committed to “let his thing play out to whatever intensity it needs to” without objections and doubt. Yet, you have already experienced enough of “the other side” to recognize it is not actually serious even though the emotions are doing their level-best to convince you otherwise.
Kuba: And I could see it from the “other side” to a degree, that no matter the intensity of the drama – “in the place where I am genuine, no mental or emotional scars are carried”.
So what I take away from this is that it is good to put a green light on this thing and let it play out, it is safe. (link)
Just excellent. I salute your audacity.
Remember how dramatic it was for ‘Vineeto’ five days before the event (link) and how jovial, convivial and almost imperceptible the actual transition turned out to be (link).
Vineeto to Kuba: I would say it is the other way round – this ‘process’ has already been initiated and therefore you are […]
Claudiu: Yes it’s like this for me. The things coming up now I see are new things that I haven’t looked at before — which come up precisely because it’s new territory.
And I see for example how one recent aspect, a drive or force or intensity I get involved with things, it’s been part of my way of being my whole life, at least from high school when I have clear memories of it! So I’m just getting to deeper layers to expose to the purity.
Hi Claudiu,
This is excellent. Even though you don’t describe the details, it is clear that the ‘cupboards’ are being swept out thoroughly.
Vineeto to Kuba: Yes, this is the very “oft-times alarming but always thrilling, momentum” in action, which Richard talks about – which means everything is going well. Don’t let ‘me’ interfere by trying to “go back, to check one more time that all is safe” or become impatient that “the waters are” not “completely calm”. Let it happen, don’t turn back. Enjoy the thrilling ride. If it was easy everyone would have done it already. (link)
Claudiu: That last part is good to keep in mind. We are indeed pioneers here. The ones before us made the way far easier than it was for them, and we are making it easier for the next ones to come after us. (link)
Indeed.
The only thing to look out for is to not “trying to work out what is ahead by moving my finger along the map” when in “intellectual mode”, as Kuba described it (link) because others have reported this or that experience during their own pioneering journey to freedom. Hence the emphasis on sincerity and naiveté.
Everyone has a slightly different and thus individually unique adventure, and who would want it any other way.
However, a word of experiential advice: just prior to apperception occurring, ‘I’, the beholder – the one who wants to be in control – can view life as being bereft of depth. Everything can become flat, two-dimensional, barren and stark. This is not actuality, although one may be inclined to feel it to be so. This is reality, stark reality, and is not to be confused with actuality. Actuality is never, ever, stark. This starkness can influence one to pull back, to retreat into ‘normal’ life. Courage of one’s conviction and confidence in the purity of the actual is essential if one is to proceed. All of one’s ‘being’ wants to back off and regain the once-despised reality that looks so attractive now, from this extreme position. This stark reality is a barrier; it is a desert of monumental proportions that one can only traverse if supplied with the fortitude garnered from the peak experience. Then one is willing to endure the ghastly reality masquerading as the actual. The very ground beneath one’s feet can appear to shift, to disappear, and all seems to hang upon nothing. Unsupported and alone, one is in the outer-most reaches of ‘being’. The feeling is that one cannot survive this appalling emptiness without going mad. To be in durance vile is not for the faint-hearted, the weak of knee. Nerves of steel are essential if one is to meet one’s destiny. It is the adventure of a life-time.
So the above quote demonstrates exactly what has been going on recently, it has been a pretty rocky ride at times!
I remember Richard wrote that as weird as it may seem at first what ‘I’ desire deeply is what ‘I’ fear the most, this experientially clicked today. Because ‘I’ do desire oblivion and yet to proceed towards ‘my’ extinction is what ‘I’ fear the most.
I have had Vineeto’s recent story in mind… The way I have been experiencing it is that ‘I’ have also got on a dinghy and pushed ‘myself’ away from the shore, now ‘I’ find ‘myself’ floating naked before the universe and with no direction that ‘I’ could possibly steer ‘myself’ to.
It makes sense now that ‘I’ would want to ‘do’ something, anything to retreat into ‘normal’ life and away from the starkness. But ‘I’ cannot do that convincingly anymore, sometimes ‘I’ will anyways and very quickly it will become apparent that there is absolutely nothing in that direction to go back to. Having nothing of substance to go back to is what makes it an oft-times alarming but always thrilling ride.
Essentially as Richard wrote :
It is incumbent upon one to stand fast, as a flesh and blood body only, without moving in any direction at all … and be what-one-is. Only in this manner will the instincts reveal themselves for what they are. ‘I’ will be laid open and the core of ‘me’ will be revealed for the blind and instinctual ‘being’ that ‘I’ am.
And this is it, the core of ‘me’, ‘my’ precious is what ‘I’ am allowing to be exposed. This is somewhat similar and yet very different to what ‘I’ did with ‘my’ social identity. All along the path there was this need to be willing to relinquish a precious part of ‘myself’ BUT ‘my’ very core would get to remain.
Whereas this ‘process’ that is happening now will ensure that whatever is still left in ‘my’ hiding place will be exposed, ‘I’ will not get to keep anything hidden. So it is proceeding towards what ‘I’ fear most and what ‘I’ desire the most.
But I can see now that this is exactly what has been happening, this ‘process’ will progressively expose ‘me’ in ‘my’ entirety, ‘I’ cannot cut a single corner, ‘I’ do not get to keep even this little thing tucked away ‘over there’.
Indeed this is an adventure of a lifetime, I can see the benefit of writing about this because this “desert of monumental proportions” is a deterrent from proceeding towards my destiny (and the same for my fellow human beings). Richard had the courage of his convictions and proceeded through it with no precedent, but he was exceptionally exceptional. It will be useful for others to know that it is indeed possible to traverse this.
The other interesting thing which I forgot to mention is that when ‘I’ am experiencing this starkness full on it appears as if this is all that ‘I’ have ever known and all ‘I’ will ever know, and yet it can switch (and yo-yo) in a matter of seconds - where now all of a sudden it’s as if none of that ever happened, and back and forth like that.
Reading this back I can see why it might be “rocky at times”, there is still some kind of a resistance coming from ‘me’. It is odd because where pure intent is pulling ‘me’ is towards the end of suffering and yet ‘I’ experience it almost as if it’s some kind of an assault. ‘I’ am desperately holding onto ‘me’ and yet ‘I’ am suffering, and then the pull towards the end of suffering is experienced as an assault…
Richard: However, a word of experiential advice: just prior to apperception occurring, ‘I’, the beholder – the one who wants to be in control – can view life as being bereft of depth. Everything can become flat, two-dimensional, barren and stark. This is not actuality, although one may be inclined to feel it to be so. This is reality, stark reality, and is not to be confused with actuality. Actuality is never, ever, stark. This starkness can influence one to pull back, to retreat into ‘normal’ life. Courage of one’s conviction and confidence in the purity of the actual is essential if one is to proceed. All of one’s ‘being’ wants to back off and regain the once-despised reality that looks so attractive now, from this extreme position. This stark reality is a barrier; it is a desert of monumental proportions that one can only traverse if supplied with the fortitude garnered from the peak experience. Then one is willing to endure the ghastly reality masquerading as the actual. The very ground beneath one’s feet can appear to shift, to disappear, and all seems to hang upon nothing. Unsupported and alone, one is in the outer-most reaches of ‘being’. The feeling is that one cannot survive this appalling emptiness without going mad. To be in durance vile is not for the faint-hearted, the weak of knee. Nerves of steel are essential if one is to meet one’s destiny. It is the adventure of a life-time. (Richard’s Journal, Article 26)
Kuba: So the above quote demonstrates exactly what has been going on recently, it has been a pretty rocky ride at times!
I remember Richard wrote that as weird as it may seem at first what ‘I’ desire deeply is what ‘I’ fear the most, this experientially clicked today. Because ‘I’ do desire oblivion and yet to proceed towards ‘my’ extinction is what ‘I’ fear the most.
I have had Vineeto’s recent story in mind… The way I have been experiencing it is that ‘I’ have also got on a dinghy and pushed ‘myself’ away from the shore, now ‘I’ find ‘myself’ floating naked before the universe and with no direction that ‘I’ could possibly steer ‘myself’ to.
It makes sense now that ‘I’ would want to ‘do’ something, anything to retreat into ‘normal’ life and away from the starkness. But ‘I’ cannot do that convincingly anymore, sometimes ‘I’ will anyways and very quickly it will become apparent that there is absolutely nothing in that direction to go back to. Having nothing of substance to go back to is what makes it an oft-times alarming but always thrilling ride.
Essentially as Richard wrote :
Richard: It is incumbent upon one to stand fast, as a flesh and blood body only, without moving in any direction at all … and be what-one-is. Only in this manner will the instincts reveal themselves for what they are. ‘I’ will be laid open and the core of ‘me’ will be revealed for the blind and instinctual ‘being’ that ‘I’ am. (Richard’s Journal, Article 23)
Kuba: And this is it, the core of ‘me’, ‘my’ precious is what ‘I’ am allowing to be exposed. This is somewhat similar and yet very different to what ‘I’ did with ‘my’ social identity. All along the path there was this need to be willing to relinquish a precious part of ‘myself’ BUT ‘my’ very core would get to remain.
Whereas this ‘process’ that is happening now will ensure that whatever is still left in ‘my’ hiding place will be exposed, ‘I’ will not get to keep anything hidden. So it is proceeding towards what ‘I’ fear most and what ‘I’ desire the most.
But I can see now that this is exactly what has been happening, this ‘process’ will progressively expose ‘me’ in ‘my’ entirety, ‘I’ cannot cut a single corner, ‘I’ do not get to keep even this little thing tucked away ‘over there’.
Indeed this is an adventure of a lifetime, I can see the benefit of writing about this because this “desert of monumental proportions” is a deterrent from proceeding towards my destiny (and the same for my fellow human beings). Richard had the courage of his convictions and proceeded through it with no precedent, but he was exceptionally exceptional. It will be useful for others to know that it is indeed possible to traverse this.
The other interesting thing which I forgot to mention is that when ‘I’ am experiencing this starkness full on it appears as if this is all that ‘I’ have ever known and all ‘I’ will ever know, and yet it can switch (and yo-yo) in a matter of seconds – where now all of a sudden it’s as if none of that ever happened, and back and forth like that. (link)
Hi Kuba,
What a fascinating thrilling time you are having, traversing “this “desert of monumental proportions”” and yet knowing with utter certainty that you are “proceeding towards my destiny”, and that there is “absolutely nothing in that direction to go back to”.
Reading all this I was wondering if you perhaps are deeply influenced by these particular descriptions of Richard’s Journal – he was after all drawing from his experience of coming out of Spiritual Enlightenment /institutionalized insanity – such that they are what is now happening to you, especially as you also noticed that “it can switch (and yo-yo) in a matter of seconds – where now all of a sudden it’s as if none of that ever happened, and back and forth like that.”
However, in the ultimate analysis it does not matter, because once the weirdness ends and you know with the perspicacity of apperception that “none of that ever happened” but was “nothing but an illusion all along”.
Richard: I mean it when I say: ‘I have the most classic indication of insanity. That is: everyone else is mad but me’.
The sanity of the real world – which is a sanity that produces wars and rapes and murders and tortures and domestic violence and child abuse and sadness and loneliness and grief and depression and suicide – is a sickness, a blight upon this fair earth. Thus, whichever way it is defined, I am not sane … I have oft-times been told that only a fool – a simpleton – can be happy and harmless in the world of people, things and events.
The doorway to an actual freedom has the words ‘Warning: do not open … insanity lies ahead’ written on it. I opened the door and walked through. Once on the other side – where thousands upon thousands of atavistic voices were insistently whispering ‘fool – fool – fool’ – I turned to ascertain the way back to normal. The door had vanished – and the wall it was set in – and I just knew that I would never, ever be able to find my way back to the real-world … it had been nothing but an illusion all along. I walked tall and free as the perfection of this material universe personified … I can never not be here … now. (Richard, List B, No. 26a, 24 Nov 1998).
Kuba: Reading this back I can see why it might be “rocky at times”, there is still some kind of a resistance coming from ‘me’. It is odd because where pure intent is pulling ‘me’ is towards the end of suffering and yet ‘I’ experience it almost as if it’s some kind of an assault. ‘I’ am desperately holding onto ‘me’ and yet ‘I’ am suffering, and then the pull towards the end of suffering is experienced as an assault… (link)
I am immensely pleased that you discovered “some kind of a resistance coming from ‘me’ because it is this “resistance” which is fuelling the weirdness. The more you pay close attention to this “resistance”, and your experience of pure intent “as an assault” which is counteracting the “oblivion” you yearn for, the more you can deliberately lean into the feeling that “‘I’ do desire oblivion”, recognize and acknowledge it as a sincere yearning, a deeply felt longing, a life-long passionate wish to end being a fraud/an impostor who is having to carry the burden of hiding and desperately defending its own frightful secret.
The reason I can speak so confidently about this ‘life-long passionate wish to end being a fraud’ is because ‘Vineeto’ deeply felt it many times in ‘her’ life, from the first moment when ‘she’ fell unconscious (due to low blood-pressure at the time). There was something so sweet, so enticing, so attractive, in those seconds before unconsciousness set in and similar in following events, that ‘she’ always wondered why that was so. ‘She’ finally found the answer when learning about an actual freedom – with the possibility to make those enticing seconds a permanent experience, via ‘her’ acquiesce to ‘her’ demise.
Richard: When the ultimate moment happens, one finds that one has gone beyond everything. Nothing remains, only utter stillness abounds. The perfection and purity of the stillness is impossible to imagine or believe … it has to be lived to be known. The journey is over, one has arrived at one’s destination. One’s destiny is here. (Richard’s Journal, Article 23).
Thinking of you with the confidence of the pure intent showering its blessings, originating in the purity and vast stillness of this infinite and eternal universe.
[bless: confer well-being upon, make happy, cause to prosper; endow with. (Oxford Dictionary).]
Yes I can see this clearly now, before it seems ‘I’ had split ‘myself’ off somewhat, in that there was ‘me’ wanting to proceed and then the “weirdness” appeared to be something other than ‘me’ that was blocking ‘me’, and yet this “weirdness” is being generated by ‘me’, that resistance is ‘me’.
Essentially there is some part of ‘me’ that is working overtime to sustain this drama, to stop ‘me’ from proceeding where ‘I’ wish to go. Catching onto the absurdity of this whole thing yesterday did something, because why would ‘I’ fight where pure intent is pulling ‘me’ when that is exactly what ‘I’ yearn for. I remember Peter writing that ‘I’ am a passionate protector of absolutely nothing at all, it’s a bit like that.
It seems there must be something that ‘I’ am still hiding though, something that ‘I’ am prepared to continue suffering for in order to keep it hidden. It feels as if pure intent is exposing ‘my’ best kept secret and ‘I’ am not ready for it to be divulged. That if it is to be exposed ‘I’ will be left so vulnerable and open to the world that ‘I’ will not be able to function.
I wonder is the “secret” to do with the fact that ‘I’ am a fraud, and ‘I’ have always been a fraud. Because this rawness feels like this, it’s as if ‘I’ am going out to the world and screaming ‘my’ deepest secrets for everyone to know, and then ‘I’ just stand there with nowhere to hide.
But there is this other component to it, of why ‘I’ am always inclined to ‘do’ something, it is this deep feeling/belief that it is not enough to be me as-I-am. It’s interesting because I left school about 13 years ago and yet still to this day I have the same recurring dream of being back. When I moved from Poland to England at 12 it was a big shock for me, so much so that I completely shut myself off from everybody, for years I would not speak any more than a yes/no and I had absolutely no friends or social life of any description. The way I eventually climbed out of this hole was by getting into sports and “buying my way” into ‘being normal’ with achievements. But it seems this left a very deep and lasting impression on ‘me’. This sense that ‘I’ absolutely cannot exist without being ‘someone in particular’ with ‘something to offer’.
You wrote the other day if ‘I’ could give a guarantee that if ‘my’ question was resolved to ‘my’ satisfaction that ‘I’ would give ‘myself’ up there and then. It looks to me that whatever the root of this resistance is (and I am not yet sure what it is), it has the capacity to do that exactly.
Yes I am most likely deeply influenced by these descriptions but I wonder now if I have somewhat appropriated this drama in order to justify/validate this resistance. That there is clearly something in ‘me’ that is not yet fully ready to proceed and so ‘I’ can make it seem legitimate by framing it in line with those descriptions. Which if this is the case that is great news haha, because it means it can be way easier than ‘I’ have been making it!
But I cannot seem to shake this sense that it is to do with this deep fear of it not being enough to be me as-I-am. I remember watching one of the DVDs and a woman (I think Pamela or Grace) mentions how Richard would sit and look out the window for hours - this was like ‘my’ worst nightmare How could ‘I’ spend all that time and not ‘do’ something or ‘be’ someone, ‘my’ whole being would resist this.
Yes that is interesting because I have had the same experience when for example I have been weight lifting heavy and would go light headed, it was obviously not a PCE and yet there was something so delicious in ‘me’ getting to disappear for a bit and yet the awareness of being alive continuing.
[Edit] It seems those stories of it not being enough to be me as-I-am are furphies
Funnily enough yesterday I was watching a TV show with Sonya and I was amazed by 1 particular scene, it was nothing to do with what was going on in the story but rather it was the sunlight reflecting off the waves in the ocean, it looked like a sheet of sparkling gold covering the top of the water, it was so delicious to take it all in. This gives some slight answer as to how Richard could sit and look out the window for hours.
It is more that ‘I’ feel ‘I’ am not allowed to do that (even though it is ‘my’ deepest desire to live like that), that some unspoken but apparently very important task has to be done instead. That continuing to be ‘me’ takes precedence over such delight and wonder.
The below is perhaps the most wonderful description that I can think of, this is what ‘I’ desire and yet it is so weird that clearly something in ‘me’ is resisting the possibility of living this :
[Vineeto]: "Since then I experience myself as what I am, not just this physical body but with particular qualities to the experiencing which to my own surprise I called ‘what I always wanted to be/what I have always been’ even though I have never lived it. For an analogy of how I experience what I am at core I have to go into the Greek mythology where people’s imagination had populated nature with nymphs, inherent/chthonic to springs or trees or groves. This experience of myself is very light and playful, as if living naked in the wilderness, utterly on my own and undeniably undefined by either people or events. I described it as being innocence personified. Sensuosity, sensuality and sexuality are as much part of what I am just as sexuality and abundance are happening in nature everywhere. As such I am no different to a tree, a rock, a spring, a mountain or a distant star and can truly say that I am the universe experiencing itself as this flesh and blood body. I am here to play, play in this abundant effervescent universe, innocent for the first time, carefree in gay abandon, forever fulfilled and exquisitely aware each moment again of the magic of both nature and the wonderful intimacy that is possible with another human being.
Needless to say that I am having the best time of my life…"
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. We are indeed pioneers here. The ones before us made the way far easier than it was for them, and we are making it easier for the next ones to come after us.