Kub933's Journal

Journals
1436

Ah yes it did feel a bit odd aiming that word at you haha. So the service is what ‘I’ do by giving ‘myself’ up so that I can be innocence personified, this is what ‘I’ do for humankind. What this body will do once ‘I’ am gone or what you do now is part and parcel of being that very benevolence and benignity, of being innocence personified. To call it service is somewhat backwards oriented, taking a word from ‘my’ world and then trying to fit actual innocence into it’s frame.

Ah how interesting that you write this because I was contemplating it just a couple of hours ago when driving to train BJJ. I was looking at what is still keeping ‘me’ from making that 100% commitment. I could see the remaining vestiges of ‘my’ life, of the who that ‘I’ am. I found it odd… On one hand there is this deep desire to be innocence personified and then there is ‘me’, driving to a gym where ‘I’ will engage in a competitive sport that centres around submitting others. There was some kind of a conflict there, because I see that competition is just another variation of the “rat race”, I have already investigated all the ugly outcomes of this.

This doesn’t mean that I have to stop training or teaching BJJ, just like realising that I exist in an exploitative system does not mean I need to go around painting burning banks. However I could see that if ‘I’ am to proceed towards actualising ‘my’ deepest desire (of being innocence personified) that whatever is left of ‘me’ will be obliterated, ‘I’/‘me’ and innocence are incompatible. Whatever remnant aspects of ‘being someone in particular’ are at odds with proceeding towards ‘my’ goal.

But there was this exact thought, that how could ‘I’ (knowing what ‘my’ goal is) encourage any endeavour which causes or perpetuates suffering for even a single person. It is ‘me’ that is the root cause of all the problems not the BJJ but even so it is an interesting place ‘I’ find ‘myself’ in - ‘I’ know what ‘my’ goal is and so now ‘I’ look at ‘my’ life and it’s all under question.

What I am sure of is that going all the way is far more important than concerns of what this body will get up to when ‘I’ am gone. But this “in between” place that ‘I’ am currently in is very fascinating - in what manner do ‘I’ continue living ‘my’ life when ‘I’ know what the goal is… It seems this is the point, that ‘I’ cannot continue living ‘my’ life if ‘I’ sincerely wish to actualise ‘my’ deepest desire, they are simply at odds.

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1437

What I can see here is that there is the problem of the ‘human condition’ and the ‘human constitution’. It is the instinctual passions and the feeling being formed thereof which necessitated the various (ultimately failing) systems - such as fighting one another in front of a crowd as a form of entertainment or obtaining meaning/purpose.

Looking at these systems there is very much the sense of “what the hell is everybody doing” and yet the root cause is ‘me’ as ‘self’ - this needs to go as a first and foremost priority, no genuine change can happen until this takes place.

Then yes perhaps in an actually free world people will no longer require entertainment in the form of strangling each other… But none of this is as important as tackling the root cause. There will for sure be far far “better ways of doing things” with regards to the general set up of society once actual freedom spreads.

But for now ‘I’ can proceed towards the eradication of the root cause all the while knowing that this body will land in a world run by ultimately failing systems, and that it will do a far better job than ‘me’ operating in the world as it is.

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1438

I am starting to understand what is meant by the “near-actual caring” that ‘Vineeto’ utilised in order to self-immolate. It is in this same direction… I saw a post on instagram just now about women experiencing abuse in Brazilian jiu jitsu, in the past ‘I’ had comfortably pushed such things under the carpet, partly because this one example is like a drop of water in the sea of ‘humanity’. It seems that only with the solid possibility of bringing an end to all the madness that ‘I’ can bring the extent of this madness close to ‘me’, so close that it can no longer be ignored. But looking with those eyes (of near-actual caring) the ‘human condition’ is all-around, it is no longer at arms length. Also I can no longer pick this or that cause to get involved in (based on ‘my’ agenda) and ignore all the others.
Before it was ‘my’ identity that would dictate which cause was worthy of acknowledgement, for example the abuse that women experience would be filtered through ‘my’ identity as a man, ‘I’ could never allow it to be close enough (and experienced without a self-centred agenda) so that ‘I’ understood it deeply. But I do now, and in fact the other day I messaged Sonya as I was watching a music video and all of a sudden I viscerally experienced and deeply understood an aspect of the ‘human condition’ specifically as it pertains to women, it was fascinating checking with her and confirming that this has indeed been her experience.

So in short this caring is an acutely emphatic caring but it is also a caring which is devoid of self-centricity.

Yesterday I was watching a documentary about this small concrete island that houses many many people living crammed together and in what would certainly be described as poor living conditions. I experienced this deep and unyielding appreciation at just what human beings are, I can see this near-actual caring is rooted exactly in this.

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1439

Vineeto: You are welcome. You do understand that Richard’s quote about ‘service’ had been referred to your choice and the ramifications of your deep “desire is to be innocence personified”?

Kuba: Ah yes it did feel a bit odd aiming that word at you haha. So the service is what ‘I’ do by giving ‘myself’ up so that I can be innocence personified, this is what ‘I’ do for humankind. What this body will do once ‘I’ am gone or what you do now is part and parcel of being that very benevolence and benignity, of being innocence personified. To call it service is somewhat backwards oriented, taking a word from ‘my’ world and then trying to fit actual innocence into it’s frame.

It is your deep “desire is to be innocence personified” and thus be of service to humankind – “to offer (and demonstrate) a solid alternative to the “hypocrisy, the lack of equity, the ignorant irresponsibility and the harm that was being done by all”, which galvanises you to sacrifice your ‘self’. Well, that is the beginning of your service, afterwards it is just part of the territory of being benign and benevolent, innocent and magnanimous.

Vineeto: From the perspective of innocence any suffering of a single human being is too much and any ‘wisdom’ promoting and perpetuation suffering is intolerable.

Kuba: Ah how interesting that you write this because I was contemplating it just a couple of hours ago when driving to train BJJ. I was looking at what is still keeping ‘me’ from making that 100% commitment. I could see the remaining vestiges of ‘my’ life, of the who that ‘I’ am. I found it odd… On one hand there is this deep desire to be innocence personified and then there is ‘me’, driving to a gym where ‘I’ will engage in a competitive sport that centres around submitting others. There was some kind of a conflict there, because I see that competition is just another variation of the “rat race”, I have already investigated all the ugly outcomes of this.

Mmh, does it have to be “competitive”? Can it not instead be showing fellow human beings how to defend themselves in emergency situations, or simply to enjoy using their physical energy to become proficient in physical activities for the sheer fun of it?

Kuba: This doesn’t mean that I have to stop training or teaching BJJ, just like realising that I exist in an exploitative system does not mean I need to go around painting burning banks. However I could see that if ‘I’ am to proceed towards actualising ‘my’ deepest desire (of being innocence personified) that whatever is left of ‘me’ will be obliterated, ‘I’/‘me’ and innocence are incompatible. Whatever remnant aspects of ‘being someone in particular’ are at odds with proceeding towards ‘my’ goal.

Ha, it’s good you can see that.

Kuba: But there was this exact thought, that how could ‘I’ (knowing what ‘my’ goal is) encourage any endeavour which causes or perpetuates suffering for even a single person. It is ‘me’ that is the root cause of all the problems not the BJJ but even so it is an interesting place ‘I’ find ‘myself’ in – ‘I’ know what ‘my’ goal is and so now ‘I’ look at ‘my’ life and it’s all under question.

Yes, I can understand this very well – the question I was asking myself after having become basically free, was am I really harmless in all my actions? What are the possible ramifications of my actions on others. It took some meticulous searching and intense conversations with Richard to remove some cobwebs of false ideals as well before this question was satisfactorily settled.

Kuba: What I am sure of is that going all the way is far more important than concerns of what this body will get up to when ‘I’ am gone. But this “in between” place that ‘I’ am currently in is very fascinating – in what manner do ‘I’ continue living ‘my’ life when ‘I’ know what the goal is… It seems this is the point, that ‘I’ cannot continue living ‘my’ life if ‘I’ sincerely wish to actualise ‘my’ deepest desire, they are simply at odds. (link)

Mmh, perhaps you’ll see clearer when ‘I’/‘me’ no longer tries to interfere in the effortless happening of life.

Remember, ‘you’ don’t have to become innocent – you said yourself “‘I’/‘me’ and innocence are incompatible” – it may look sincere on the surface but it’s merely a trick to procrastinate.

All ‘you’ have to do is to get out of the way.

Cheers Vineeto

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1440

…

Yes I can see this, the “conflict” that I mentioned driving to train BJJ was because it is ‘me’ that can never be innocent, so ‘I’ can deflect by projecting it out into various social issues.

It is exactly what Richard described in one of the articles in his journal when he was being urged to get involved with protesting against the pollution of a local river :

I am that stillness experiencing itself … I am pristine, through and through. By daring to be here now, by being me as-I-am, I have already “cleaned up” all the pollution … by not being polluted at all in the first place.

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1441

Vineeto: Remember, ‘you’ don’t have to become innocent – you said yourself “‘I’/‘me’ and innocence are incompatible” – it may look sincere on the surface but it’s merely a trick to procrastinate.

Kuba: Yes I can see this, the “conflict” that I mentioned driving to train BJJ was because it is ‘me’ that can never be innocent, so ‘I’ can deflect by projecting it out into various social issues.

Hi Kuba,

You can also say that your near-actual-caring is reminding you of your deep desire to be innocence personified, and experiencing the stark discrepancy of ‘me’ and actuality the result of your experience of pure intent working its magic.

Kuba: It is exactly what Richard described in one of the articles in his journal when he was being urged to get involved with protesting against the pollution of a local river:

Richard: I am that stillness experiencing itself … I am pristine, through and through. By daring to be here now, by being me as-I-am, I have already “cleaned up” all the pollution … by not being polluted at all in the first place. (Richard’s Journal, Article Twenty-Five, ©2004)

It’s a wonderful quote, thank you.

Cheers Vineeto

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1442

I was just having a bath and writing some notes and I ended up coming across a rather fascinating question… I can see now that the altruism that is being spoken about is strictly a biological altruism. The question ‘I’ posed to ‘myself’ is the below :

Is this body / the human race more likely to survive and reproduce if ‘I’/‘we’ are enjoying and appreciating each moment again? And is this body / the human race more likely to survive and flourish if ‘I’ become extinct? Am ‘I’ past ‘my’ use-by date?

The addiction to suffering (aka ‘being’) is an ancient imprint indeed, it is what allowed the species to flourish, up to a point.

But with the sharp change in the circumstances is it that it is now doing the exact opposite? ‘I’ exist to ensure the survival and propagation of the species, but what if it is shown that ‘I’ am now doing the exact opposite?

What if it is shown that the way of enjoyment and appreciation, that the absence of suffering is now more conductive to the survival and reproduction of this body / the human race?

That would have the “you can’t change human nature” creed in some troubles haha. It is the change in the environment which necessitates a change in the species, and indeed the change in the environment is already in place.

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1443

So I understand now what Richard was saying, I always saw it as some kind of pseudo-scientific theory. But indeed actual freedom is the next stage in human evolution. The conditions are such that freedom from suffering is more conductive to survival and reproduction, and what is more is that it is already happening!

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1444

Self-destruction of some kind (via weaponry, environmental damage or resource depletion) is usually listed as a probable great filter:

Recently, paleobiologist Olev Vinn has suggested that the great filter may exist between steps 8 and 9 due to inherited behavior patterns (IBP) that initially occur in all intelligent biological organisms. These IBPs are incompatible with conditions prevailing in technological civilizations and could inevitably lead to the self-destruction of civilization in multiple ways.[8]

So, yeah, since the main risk for human civilization as a whole is within humanity itself (other than natural or external/alien attacks), yeah, the extinction of human nature would likely be a significant technological leap. As for an actually free humanity seeking interstellar colonization to keep flourishing… well, I guess there would have to be other kinds of incentives to pursue that. ;p

1445

I like this idea, does it mean that if we ever meet an alien civilization (meaning it passed the great filter) it would probably be benign (free of its blind nature instinctual passions) otherwise it would self destruct before reaching us

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1446

So I will write a little more about how I came to see what I described in my previous 2 posts. I have been looking at what is the next objection, what is still taking away from it being a 100% commitment. I can see that ‘I’ will not agree to disappear unless there is utter confidence that this is the correct course of action. It’s fascinating that ‘I’ have peeled away all these layers and there is so little left now, and still there is that 1% that is not sure. So it seems the only way to proceed is to patiently dismantle the next bit.

Stepping out from control was the decision to allow pure intent to life ‘my’ life, it was about the ‘do-er’ going into abeyance, ‘I’ opened the door to ‘my’ cage and so the perfection and purity would work away on ‘me’ as the ‘beer’. But there is more, because proceeding towards self-extinction means that there will not be anything of ‘me’ left, only the perfection and purity exists in the actual world.

I remember what got me back onto the wide and wondrous path after a 5 year break was the experience of the breath breathing itself… I took some LSD and as I was looking out the window and enjoying the “trip” for what it was, it happened. Such a little thing and it only lasted a second or so, but in that second there was no ‘being’ at all, the breath was happening and yet ‘no-one’ was doing it, it was happening of it’s own accord and the entire universe was like that. It was an experience of utter release.

So this is the difference between the ‘do-er’ going into abeyance and ‘being’ in it’s entirety getting out of the way.

This is exactly the flavour of ‘my’ current deliberations, something to the effect of - is the perfection and purity alone going to do a sufficient job of living this life? As in is it safe for ‘me’ not only to step out from control but to completely exit the scene, where ‘I’ would play no part at all. Where just like the breath breathed itself, life would live itself.

Geoffrey wrote about “rising to the challenge of being here as the universes experience of itself” prior to ‘his’ self-immolation, this is exactly the direction that ‘I’ am looking at. And the question that ‘I’ want to answer experientially for ‘myself’ is - Is it safe, sensible and beneficial for all concerned to have ‘me’ disappear completely and to have only the perfection and purity left. Will the perfection and purity “know what it is doing” when left completely to it’s own devices.

And this is 1 thing to allow as an idea but to experientially allow this as far as humanly possible in my daily life is a different thing. As in can I turn up to work, deal with various things - essentially to continue existing “in the marketplace” and for ‘me’ to have no involvement in any of these matters at all. That whatever remnant shreds of involvement that ‘I’ have would no longer play any part at all - rising to the challenge of being here as the universes experience of itself.

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1447

What I can see is that there is some kind of an addiction to the apparent safety of ‘being’, of suffering. That ‘being’ those passions is somehow required for safety, for survival etc. It reminds me of something that Richard wrote in his journal haha :

Initially one is deathly afraid to actually be here now, as it can feel rather rudely raw … one feels more naked and exposed than taking off one’s clothing in the market place.

I just realised that ‘Vineeto’ did in fact experience being “naked and exposed” prior to ‘her’ self-immolation :yum:

Actually this is a perfect segue into a great example of this kind of feeling in ‘my’ life. Some of my work that I do on weekends involves being a life-drawing model for hen parties. So yes it involves stripping completely naked in front of a bunch of drunk women :laughing:

To enter such a situation with no ‘protection’ from ‘being’ or from the social identity is a great challenge and it’s something that ‘I’ have become pretty damn good at!

But this is exactly it - To stand naked and unadorned as this flesh and blood body, no pretence, no ‘being’. This is the challenge, the challenge to be actually intimate, the challenge to have no ‘hiding place’.

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1448

Kuba: Geoffrey wrote about “rising to the challenge of being here as the universes experience of itself” prior to ‘his’ self-immolation, this is exactly the direction that ‘I’ am looking at. And the question that ‘I’ want to answer experientially for ‘myself’ is – Is it safe, sensible and beneficial for all concerned to have ‘me’ disappear completely and to have only the perfection and purity left. Will the perfection and purity “know what it is doing” when left completely to its own devices.

And this is 1 thing to allow as an idea but to experientially allow this as far as humanly possible in my daily life is a different thing. As in can I turn up to work, deal with various things – essentially to continue existing “in the marketplace” and for ‘me’ to have no involvement in any of these matters at all. That whatever remnant shreds of involvement that ‘I’ have would no longer play any part at all – rising to the challenge of being here as the universes experience of itself. (link)

Hi Kuba,

Given that you have already convincingly experienced and described your deep “desire is to be innocence personified”, and have also recognized/ admitted that “‘I’/‘me’ and innocence are incompatible” (link), and given that ‘you’ have now again taken full reign with this cunning and corrupt entity, which is incompatible with / polar opposite to innocence personified, I have a question for ‘you’ who attempts to throw a spanner in the works, trying to prevent your deep desire to come to fruition – what guarantee can ‘you’ give, provided the “question” is answered to ‘your’ satisfaction, that ‘you’ will voluntarily give up prevaricating and sabotaging, and not inventing another and yet another doubt to keep ‘you’ in control? If ‘you’ cannot give this guarantee then your ‘problem’ is not worth the pixels to communicate it.

Richard lived for 32 years in perfection because (not despite) no ‘self’ was controlling his life living itself, I have done so for about 15 years without a hitch, not to mention the other actually free people.

What is so special about ‘you’, the ever so cunning entity controlling Kuba’s flesh-and-blood body, that ‘you’ feel that ‘you’ are indispensable for Kuba’s survival? Is it perhaps the fear of extinction hiding behind a cunningly presented problem, to which you have already plenty of experiential answers from countless PCEs? If so, no half-hearted (as in “as far as humanly possible”) solution to this puzzle is possible.

The only way it can be experientially proved that an actual freedom is “safe, sensible and beneficial for all concerned”, after all the experiential research done already, is by allowing it to happen.

Cheers Vineeto

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1449

So what you are asking is - Can ‘I’ guarantee that if ‘I’ was to wave a magic wand right now and resolve this latest objection (to ‘my’ satisfaction) that ‘I’ would allow ‘my’ self-immolation right now?

OK so the only solution worth entertaining is that which comes from a deeply passionate and caring involvement?

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1450

If I could phrase it differently I’d say

You write as if you have one final objection and once it’s done with you will at last self-immolate

But Vineeto is pointing out this pattern has already played out for you many times, once the “final” objection is resolved you come up with another one

In other words it sounds like it’s not a final objection but just another one

And the question is, what makes this time different? Is it different? If not different then it sounds like it will just keep going this way forever and so not worth getting into the particular details of the latest one, since it won’t resolve things anyway

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1451

Yes I see this and I wonder perhaps do you (and others) see ‘me’ doing this very thing too?

1452

I get the sense that yes. I haven’t looked back through the thread but just reading this latest objection:

I just don’t see how this can be a real question. It’s so obviously true that it will actually be of benefit to everyone

Similar things have come up in past where for example you were thinking it’s better to remain a feeling being to better help others become free first …

So it seems a theme emerges of obviously answerable questions, and new ones each time… just my first impression

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1453

Yes I am starting to see the pattern, it’s a bit like when someone clearly goes down hill for whatever reason and often (whilst it is clear to those around them) they are unaware themselves, until the penny drops. Like Richard wrote just who am ‘I’ kidding anyways, it seems kidding ‘myself’ is usually the answer, whilst it is already out in the open for everyone around.

Well I am referring the general flavour you pick up from the thousands of posts I have written on here :laughing:

Oh I will just add @Vineeto when I wrote the other posts there was some fear/anxiety as to how you would respond - So yes clearly ‘I’ had something to hide, ‘I’ was afraid of ‘my’ hiding place being exposed.

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1454

Kuba: So what you are asking is – Can ‘I’ guarantee that if ‘I’ was to wave a magic wand right now and resolve this latest objection (to ‘my’ satisfaction) that ‘I’ would allow ‘my’ self-immolation right now?

Hi Kuba,

Basically yes, that is what I am asking. It is a rhetorical question because both you and I know that this guarantee can never be given.

I asked in order for you to experientially see the cunningness of ‘me’, and perhaps by fully comprehending the seemingly inexhaustible cunning of ‘me’, creating doubt and confusion and preventing to allowing naiveté and pure intent to live your life to the full extent possible.

Kuba: OK so the only solution worth entertaining is that which comes from a deeply passionate and caring involvement? (link)

Yes, this is what your naïve inquiry into a cause worth sacrificing your ‘self’ for has produced. I keep thinking of Richard’s quote –

Richard: No, I am more making the point that only altruism – self-sacrificial humanitarianism – will provide the enormous energy necessary for ‘self’-immolation … the instinct for individual survival is only exceeded by the instinct for group survival.
It takes a powerful instinct to overcome a powerful instinct. (Richard, List B, James3, 28 Oct 2002a)

In case you discover a passionate doubt or fear or any other deeply felt obstacle to your desired aim, then you can harness the passionate energy by staying with the thrill whilst allowing pure intent to bring you closer and closer to your aim – “to offer (and demonstrate) a solid alternative to the “hypocrisy, the lack of equity, the ignorant irresponsibility and the harm that was being done by all”. (link)

The solution, as I can only surmise at this point, is accumulating and fostering this “enormous energy” required, which is a passionate energy (without frittering it away by doubt and confusion).

I have seen it happen with the woman of Indian birth (link). During the intense interaction which preceded her moment of becoming actually free she first talked about her deeply felt universal sorrow for all feeling beings including animals and her urgent question why that was so, and after Richard and I explained the nature of universal sorrow, her feelings turned to doubt, which was then followed by fear. As the conversation went on, she arrived back at her question of ‘why’ there is universal sorrow, only to be followed again by doubt and then fear once more, followed then by cycling back to her question of ‘why’. This pattern went on several times until I was able to point out how she was going round and round in a circle with the same question and the same feelings. She went another round, and was able to recognize the pattern herself … and her mind became very quiet.

Richard was then able to talk to her about actual time – that it is always now and that the person who arrived at the airport no longer existed, even the person who walked through the door a couple of hours ago no longer existed. She agreed and as she agreed she experienced time standing still … and the rest is history.

I am not sure if that made things clearer for you.

Cheers Vineeto

PS:

Kuba: Yes I see this and I wonder perhaps do you (and others) see ‘me’ doing this very thing too? (link)

Kuba, it is the nature of the identity to prevaricate and procrastinate. There is no point blaming yourself as all you can do is recognize it when it is happening.

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1455

Ahh brilliant, I didn’t grasp that. Amazing way to point it out :appreciation:

I can not provide any such guarantees indeed… only the purity of the actually existing universe can do this

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