It’s scary for me to contemplate doing this as it means severing our ‘relationship’. Of course, logically I can see the benefits and sense in it but to actually see it, want it completely 100%, and do it is a different action.
Hi Sonya,
OK but here you have entirely omitted how such a situation came about for you in the first place and so there is no chance of finding the root cause. How it came about in the first place is that you became overstimulated and irritated by the sound of me eating cereal next to you whilst you were napping and then became hellbent on making it into an argument. When I pointed out how unreasonable you were being (as we always have food in the living room etc) you stubbornly persisted in your annoyance, and then the anger on my side surfaced.
The anger is of course my business but I have to point something out - you cannot be shocked that someone - sooner or later - has a problem with you when you conduct yourself in an unreasonable manner. But it seems you do not pay attention to any of this, rather you come in 2 or 3 steps late and want to sever a relationship or desperately cut some cord of authority.
I am reminded of what Claudiu described a while ago -
”Then they brought up the immediate point, which is very relevant, of what is known in the “Burning Man” culture as a “glitter fairy” (or something like this). This is a person who is completely unaware of the impact of their own actions – they are just frolicking about, littering and disturbing the environment, but they themselves are having a good time. Is this person not being happy yet also remarkably selfish?”
It is as if in your reflective attention those prior events do not exist, there was just the glitter fairy frolicking about and then something bad and mean happened and now she wants to be free. Perhaps the reason why this investment - having me responsible for how you feel / expecting me to be gentle and kind 24/7 - continues is because you have not yet taken full responsibility for yourself. Furthermore if you are indeed interested in taking responsibility for yourself then I would also point out that it is rather odd that you are only motivated to post on here after you have had an argument with me, what is going on for all those other days. This is all rather reactive, why not be proactive.
Yeah, we both see this situation very differently. I recognised that I was annoyed/ irritated but I didn’t want to continue it further. I put my hands up being annoyed and I never argued that I wasn’t. Maybe you can see that your consistent pushing that I am being unreasonable or “something not quite right with you” has never been helpful, especially when tensions are high.
You cannot be shocked that someone - sooner or later - has a problem with you when you conduct yourself in an unreasonable manner. But it seems you do not pay attention to any of this, rather you come in 2 or 3 steps late and want to sever a relationship or desperately cut some cord of authority.
I am not shocked, or ever have been shocked when you’re angry at me. Your reaction to me being annoyed/irritated was to double down with force. Of course any sort of irritation is unreasonable, especially do do with eating cereal 
and sooner or later after calming down I can see that. But unfortunately didn’t get the chance to as I was met with your anger/ finding a problem with it which im not shocked at.
This is a person who is completely unaware of the impact of their own actions – they are just frolicking about, littering and disturbing the environment, but they themselves are having a good time. Is this person not being happy yet also remarkably selfish?”
I was clearly not having a good time when this event occured?
It is as if in your reflective attention those prior events do not exist, there was just the glitter fairy frolicking about and then something bad and mean happened and now she wants to be free.
I do really wish eventually you’d stop putting me in this box as I am not this way anymore. At least not recently. It seems like it’s okay for you to have a problem with me being irritated but me having a problem with your anger is all a sudden im a ‘glitter fairy”
Furthermore if you are indeed interested in taking responsibility for yourself then I would also point out that it is rather odd that you are only motivated to post on here after you have had an argument with me, what is going on for all those other days. This is all rather reactive, why not be proactive.
I am motivated to post on here after having an argument with you because it was very clear last night you did not want to speak with me so I don’t know why you find it odd and I find it helpful to be able to read back my previous posts whilst writing/contemplating my current expereince. I also find speaking to you very jarring whilst i’m feeling rather raw and would rather wait for a bit.
Anyways, I wasn’t trying to have this specific convo on here but more so contemplating the giant problem flag waving at me right now.
Just to be clear it is the behaviour which is being labelled as unreasonable, not the emotion. I am referring to your behaviour when I say you are being unreasonable, I am not blaming you for having irritation happen in the first place. Trying to find out who felt what feeling and is therefore to blame is an endless and pointless game. And this very game is one aspect of that investment which you want to be free from (having me responsible for how you feel / expecting me to be gentle and kind 24/7).
What I am suggesting is to stop playing the game of “who felt what first” and instead free one’s attention to focus on what is actually going on, and whether it is silly or sensible. Of course I can see now that it is silly to double down when somebody is already past the reach of sensible discourse.
Sonya: So, a while ago I wrote about feeling connected in the nurturing sense. I noticed I had the tendency to relate to people in a nurturing way. I have been noticing lately when I begin to do that and to nip it in the bud. I notice the good feelings come up, and the difference between a preference and a good feeling.
For example, my brother in law often comes back to our house for a week every 2 weeks or so. I noticed he tends not to have much time to cook himself dinner so I thought it would make more sense for him to join in on our dinners whenever he’d like. There was no nurturing feelings come up from this, it was a clean offer in which he could accept or decline as he pleases. There is no involvement from ‘me’ looking for the good feelings from nurture and on the opposite no bad feelings if he decides to decline my offer. So this has been some nice progress.
What I seem to still be stuck on, and this became startling clear last night, is that I am still feeling connected to Kuba in some other way. I am so easily and greatly effected by his vibe towards me.
Hi Sonya,
You start by saying you feel connected but what this ‘connection’ is comprised of that you want his approval – and when his mood/ vibes indicate he does not approve of you in certain situations, you are not feeling good. This quote from Richard might be informative –
>>Richard: My second wife would oft-times say to others how it was not always easy to live with me as ‘she’ was totally ignored (in ‘her’ view) by me. (Please note it is an impossibility to ignore anything at all which has no existence in actuality and how I do pay lip-service, just as I am now, to the apparent existence of any identity feeling itself to be real). What my second wife was really referring to is the total absence of any supportive identity rapport/ affective connection. (Richard, List D, No. 15, 12 Nov 2009).
In other words, the identity, being a contingent ‘being’, dependant on the confirmation of others to confirm ‘your’ existence is seeking this confirmation primarily from your live-in partner and therefore how you feel is dependent on this (positive) confirmation. As such you can nip in the bud the relating to people in a nurturing way but unless you understand the pattern of your dependancy you only shift the process of being acknowledged/ confirmed from one person to the other. Nipping in the bud only works when you have already understood the underlying cause in each situation, in this case dependency.
Here is something ‘Vineeto’ wrote about gaining more and more autonomy –
‘Vineeto’: Whenever fear arose of losing Peter or when I noticed that I started depending on his company for my happiness, I looked into those emotions to understand what exactly it was that I was afraid of. I could easily detect that my cherished tender instincts, my feelings of love, belonging and affection were the very cause of my fear and dependency. I found that I had to question every single one of my ideals and dreams about relationship, as well as my imaginations and hopes, expectations and principles to be able to become free of fear and to begin to become autonomous.
The fairy-tales that I had loved as a child and the heroic legends that I had read as a youth – all talked about love as the primary fulfilment in life and the ultimate goal … after the princess found prince charming ‘they lived happily ever after’. All the poetry that is written about love conveys the same picture, the bittersweet longing and a fulfilment that gives content and meaning to life. In reality I found that love meant that I wanted the other to determine, colour and fulfill my life and to guarantee my happiness – an obvious relegation of my responsibility for my own life and happiness. [Emphasis added]. (Actualism, Vineeto, AF List, Gary-c, 2.3.2001).
The whole section is worth reading. And another piece about autonomy instead of ‘being authentic’ –
‘Vineeto’: Yes, that is exactly what I mean. The longer I applied the method the easier it became to sit with the emotion that occurred, ponder it over, trace it to its source and, upon complete understanding, step out of it completely.
Respondent: It seems more authentic for me to communicate with others what I am upset about if I am getting upset. This is not to put a demand upon them or tell them that their behaviour must change. It is to openly communicate where my buttons are – not an attempt to blame others for my feelings – while I continue to investigate and clean myself up.
‘Vineeto’: I found that ‘me’ being ‘authentic’ was just as ‘self’-serving as being hypocritical. Being authentic is the new-age version of letting everyone around have a piece of one’s feelings. If you look at today’s authenticity-gurus such as Oprah Winfrey then you can see that the core of their teaching is how to be authentically ‘me’. That’s what people have always done down through the ages – the only difference now is that it has the modern stamp of approval by calling it loving your ‘true self’ – a shoddy mixture of Eastern spiritualism and pop psychology.
What is the real purpose of being authentic? What is the underlying reason for wanting to air my feelings? Why do I want someone else to know where my ‘buttons’ are? Why do I want others to be sensitive towards ‘me’?
Rather than being authentic towards others, I found it invaluable and imperative to be honest with myself, because without honesty and integrity I would have never found out ‘my’ tricks and cunning. ‘Me’ being honest and authentic with others invariably means that I am sharing my sad and grotty ‘self’ with others, which only serves to justify, maintain and perpetuate ‘me’.
The decision to clean oneself up is a unilateral decision – it involves no one else but me. As long as I expect respect, comfort, support, understanding or agreement from others in order to start the journey, I will be waiting forever. Actualism is a do it yourself and do it by yourself method. It is an immense freedom to realize that you are not beholden to anyone else to begin the actualism practice but that you can become free at your own pace and do so in complete autonomy and anonymity. [Emphasis added]. (Actualism, Vineeto, AF List, No. 37, 20.1.2002).
Sonya: I think it’s still the authority. I still relate to him in that sense and I have become entirely sick of it. How have I given up my own autonomy so easily to someone who is also another feeling being capable of being angry, lashing out etc. and not expecting him to do so? I see that I have put my life in his hands (whether he wanted it or not) trusting and expecting him to be gentle and kind 24/7. How unfair and how silly. As I am writing this it’s becoming more clear why I am so effected by his vibe towards me, I put how I am feeling into his hands, completely at his mercy to do with as he pleases. I have not taken control of my own life in that sense so when he does lash out I feel utterly helpless and it feels like the rug is ripped out from under my feet and I there is no continuing. All very dramatic and world ending. Maybe it won’t be so intense and all consuming if I didn’t put my life in his hands. (link)
Well, you don’t have much choice – about 99.9% of human beings are feeling beings with exactly the same predicament, including yourself. To blame the other never ever solves the problem, it only compounds it. Now that you noticed and acknowledged that you put your life and happiness in his hands (which is what love does), you can take your life into your own hands and be fully responsible for your own happiness and harmlessness, whatever the circumstances. That’s what actualism means, dedicate your life to be happy and harmless, eventually unconditionally so. And that is what you both set out to do at the start of your acquaintance, live together in peace and harmony, each cleaning themselves up to be able to do that. The latest spat between you and Kuba (link and following) only shows that each has still plenty to look at.
How about eradicating full-blown anger as Richard described here, i.e. when you feel anger rising, stop, don’t express nor suppress, get back to feeling good and then contemplate how your frustrated hopes and dreams have interfered with feeling good. Once you had some insights and sorted it out you can impart your findings and discoveries if you want to – but blaming the other for one’s frustration will never end the conflict for good.
Sonya: [Addendum]: It’s scary for me to contemplate doing this as it means severing our ‘relationship’. Of course, logically I can see the benefits and sense in it but to actually see it, want it completely 100%, and do it is a different action. (link)
I am not sure what you mean by “severing our ‘relationship’” – the way you phrased it sounds rather radical as in moving out, born of frustration. What you ideally want to do is change the way you are relating from a dependant, love-based possessive-demanding relating to a more naïve intimacy-based relating – from fellow human being to fellow human being, who both basically share the same aim – to live together in peace and harmony, and revel in the delights of enjoying each other’s company and shared intimacy.
Cheers Vineeto
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Hi Vineeto,
Thanks for your reply, things have settled down and we have managed to enjoy our weekend with my friend staying over. Now that the dust has settled im starting to see things a little clearer without the cloud of frustration/anger/sadness.
This has given me quite a bit to think about. I look forward to exploring what’s going on. I can tell there is definitley an element of an unsure little girl hiding behind his legs, waiting for approval, checking with him to ensure everything is safe. Of course, if he get’s upset with me I feel “told off” , to the point of in a heated momement, “sticking to my guns” to blame him for my upset. In the moment I needed him to acknowledge the hurt so I feel safe to go back hiding behind him again.
Yes, I can see why that sounds rather radical. I admit I was still feeling rather raw whilst writing this. I more so meant the “relationship” I have in my head, the one that doesn’t actually exist but I feel it to be real. The relationship in which I have decided my partner’s role is a provider/protecter or can very quickly switch to aggresor/villan. I hope that is a bit more clear. I’d very much like to end that and meet the actual Kuba.
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VINEETO: There’s a curious thing about emotions and instinctual passions – if you want to be genuinely free of the negative or ‘bad’ emotions you will have to question the positive or ‘good’ emotions first. If you want to become free of feeling insulted and blamed by others you will have to abandon seeking the praise of others, if you want to become free of the fear of losing a cherished item or job you will have to investigate the desire, affection and attachment for that item or job, and if you want to become free of the fear of the loss of ‘loved ones’ you will have to inquire into your of desire to belong and your feelings of dependency and love.
GARY: So it appears that initially the intent to be free of the negative or ‘bad’ emotions is what fuels the investigation into the instinctual passions. But one finds out relatively quickly, going back to a seminal point that Richard talks about, that one cannot be a ‘stripped down self’. I did not really understand this at first but as I continue using the method of actualism I see with increasing clarity that this is true. One cannot eliminate the negative, invidious passions without the positive, ‘loving’ emotions, and this is a major point at which one may well balk. What I have found to be true of myself, at the current stage, is that I may fondly imagine that I am free from being shackled to the influence of others, I may imagine that I am free from the attachment to the job or the praise of the supervisor, but I am not. And each one of these startling glimpses into the way ‘I’ operate leads to a greater freedom from ‘my’ habitual clinging and holding of people, places, and things. Merely wanting to be free from these things is, of course, not enough. One has to be able to experience the ‘me’ in action, see ‘me’ in all my cunningness, duplicity, and dishonesty. One needs to be neither in love with love, or embittered and disillusioned by love’s failures. One needs to see oneself for who one is, and when I use the word ‘one’ I am referring to the alien entity inhabiting this flesh-and-blood body. When one really sees oneself for who one is, one is free to be what one is.
VINEETO: The closer I looked into the so-called positive feelings that I had cherished for so long, the more I discovered that love had no tangible benefits, only fleeting emotions and un-kept promises. Inevitably attachment would lead to resentment, fear and jealousy, the desire for unconditional love would lead to unconditional, as in unquestioning, dependency and the desire to appear unconditionally loving would lead to self-contempt, hypocrisy and an emotional and physical withdrawal from the so-called bad world.
So ‘disillusionment’, as in acknowledging that love has failed to bring an actual peace and harmony between human beings, is a necessary starting point as one dismantles imagination and discovers the facts.
When you say ‘one needs to see oneself for who one is’ I was reminded of this quote from Richard about seeing facts, and it has helped me a few times to overcome fear and do what was obviously the next step –
Just been slowly reading this over and over again as each time something clicks but it’s interesting how it’s all slowly revealing itself.
For the past 5 or so years I have been ignoring that I have infact been in love, not to the “normal” extent as it hasn’t been nutured but I have nevertheless allowed myself to fall in love. I’ve always known that of course there was loving feelings there but I was never able to admit to myself that I have fallen in love and dismissing it as “loving feelings” which didn’t need to be looked at. I’ve fully become entangled in it. The aim was never to fall in love but I seem to have ended up here anyways. I can begin to see it now, the authority, dependency, nurturing. It’s all because I have fallen in love.
I mean, of course merely saying I don’t want to be in love or logicall not seeing the sense in it is not enough and actually experiencing it myself, looking at it, exploring it and actually knowing fully to my bones that I don’t want it never happened. I never found out experientally that this is not the path I want to go down. It feels like a weight lifting off my shoulders finally realising and admitting this, it explains the intense bad feelings (the other side of love) whenever the good feelings of love weren’t reciprocated. I’ve been repressing, ignoring, brushing it under the rug all this time.
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Sonya: Hi Vineeto,
Thanks for your reply, things have settled down and we have managed to enjoy our weekend with my friend staying over. Now that the dust has settled, I’m starting to see things a little clearer without the cloud of frustration/ anger/ sadness.
This has given me quite a bit to think about. I look forward to exploring what’s going on. I can tell there is definitely an element of an unsure little girl hiding behind his legs, waiting for approval, checking with him to ensure everything is safe. Of course, if he gets upset with me, I feel “told off”, to the point of in a heated moment, “sticking to my guns” to blame him for my upset. In the moment I needed him to acknowledge the hurt so I feel safe to go back hiding behind him again.
Hi Sonya,
Good. Now that you see it a bit clearer, can you understand that someone has to stop the tit-for-tat blame-game if you both want to live in peace and harmony? And because the only person you can change is yourself – the buck can stop with you, if you choose to. So instead of aiming your actions “to acknowledge the hurt so I feel safe to go back hiding behind him again” you have the choice “in a heated moment” to unilaterally keep your hands in your pocket, sit quietly until you cooled off and feel good again.
It may seem scary at first but if you succeed not to suppress or express your “frustration/ anger/ sadness” in that “heated moment” you will experience your own autonomy coming to the fore. Doing this you get to experience the confidence that you can indeed deal with your emotions in a constructive and harmless way. And if you succeed once, you know you can do it next time as well. And what a joy when you dealt with your emotions to then share your success and your insights with him.
-
Vineeto: I am not sure what you mean by “severing our ‘relationship’” – the way you phrased it sounds rather radical as in moving out, born of frustration. What you ideally want to do is change the way you are relating from a dependant, love-based possessive-demanding relating to a more naïve intimacy-based relating – from fellow human being to fellow human being, who both basically share the same aim – to live together in peace and harmony, and revel in the delights of enjoying each other’s company and shared intimacy.
Sonya: Yes, I can see why that sounds rather radical. I admit I was still feeling rather raw whilst writing this. I more so meant the “relationship” I have in my head, the one that doesn’t actually exist but I feel it to be real. The relationship in which I have decided my partner’s role is a provider/ protecter or can very quickly switch to aggressor/ villein. I hope that is a bit more clear.
I’d very much like to end that and meet the actual Kuba. (link)
This is certainly more clear, and again, the onus is on you to change this kind of relationship, unilaterally. After all, as you said “the one that doesn’t actually exist but I feel it to be real” and therefore you can choose to aim for a different kind of relationship. You can, gradually, stand on your own two feet, don’t expect to be protected and provided for and can relate with your partner in a more amicable basis. I remember we talked about a feeling being is a “persona” –
Richard: As I slowly started to unravel the mess that humankind was deeply mired in by unravelling it in me, I discovered a second layer under ‘my’ acculturated ethnicity … ‘I’ was brainwashed into being a ‘man’ and not simply a flesh and blood male body. Under the enculturated layers lies a further identity … the genetically-inherited animal ‘self’. It took me years and years of exploration and discovery to find out that ‘I’ was a ‘me’ – a ‘being’ – and not simply a flesh and blood body. By identification as ‘me’, a psychological/ psychic entity was able to ‘possess’ this body. It is not unlike those Christians who are said to be possessed by an evil entity and require exorcism. Only this ‘possession’ was called being normal. Therefore, every human being is thus possessed by an ‘alien entity’ … I discovered that a ‘walk-in’ was in control of this body and that this ‘walk-in’ was ‘me’.
(…)
These are related to roles, rank, positions, station, status, class, age, gender … the whole organisation of hierarchical control. But behind all that – underlying all socialised classifications – is the persistent feeling of being an identity inhabiting the body: an affective ‘entity’ as in a deep, abiding and profound feeling of being an occupant, a tenant, a squatter or a phantom hiding behind a façade, a mask, a persona; as a subjective emotional psychological ‘self’ and/or a passionate psychic ‘being’ (‘I’ as ego and ‘me’ as soul) inhabiting the psyche; a deep feeling of being a ‘spirit’; a consciousness of the immanence of ‘presence’ (which exists immortally); an awareness of being an autological ‘being’ … the realisation of ‘Being’ itself. In other words: everything you think, feel and instinctually know yourself to be.
Your feeling of being – the real ‘me’ – is evidenced when one says: ‘But what about me, nobody loves me for me’. For a woman it may be: ‘You only want me for my body … and not for me’. For a man it may be: ‘You only want me for my money … and not for me’. For a child it may be: ‘You only want to be my friend because of my toys (or sweets or whatever)’. That deep feeling of ‘me’ – that ‘being’ itself – is at the core of identity. (Richard, AF List, No. 12a, 28 Jan 1999)
You had said in reply –
SONYA: So from the quotes you provided of Richard’s writings I understand it is the reason why I feel there is something fundamentally wrong with me is because who ‘I’ am as an identity isn’t actual, I exist as a mix of instinctual passions, roles, rank, etc. I like the use of the word ‘persona’. This is exactly how I feel. Like I am keeping up a persona. (15Apr2025)
Well, you obviously decided that you no longer like being this chosen persona because you found it counterproductive. With this realisation you can now begin to explore and dismantle all the different aspects of what this ‘persona’ of Sonya consists of, in your own good time, and abandon whatever aspect you no longer find conducive to living in peace and harmony. Some aspects can be abandoned right away, others will need some insightful contemplation and courage to put into action.
You will be surprised, that in the end all layers of one’s social identity, and expressions of the instinctual passions, are standing in the way of peace and harmony and thus enjoying and appreciating being alive. The more sincere (less of a persona) you become the better the chance to “meet the actual Kuba”.
Cheers Vineeto
‘VINEETO’: There’s a curious thing about emotions and instinctual passions – if you want to be genuinely free of the negative or ‘bad’ emotions you will have to question the positive or ‘good’ emotions first. If you want to become free of feeling insulted and blamed by others you will have to abandon seeking the praise of others, if you want to become free of the fear of losing a cherished item or job you will have to investigate the desire, affection and attachment for that item or job, and if you want to become free of the fear of the loss of ‘loved ones’ you will have to inquire into your of desire to belong and your feelings of dependency and love.
GARY: So it appears that initially the intent to be free of the negative or ‘bad’ emotions is what fuels the investigation into the instinctual passions. But one finds out relatively quickly, going back to a seminal point that Richard talks about, that one cannot be a ‘stripped down self’. I did not really understand this at first but as I continue using the method of actualism I see with increasing clarity that this is true. One cannot eliminate the negative, invidious passions without the positive, ‘loving’ emotions, and this is a major point at which one may well balk. What I have found to be true of myself, at the current stage, is that I may fondly imagine that I am free from being shackled to the influence of others, I may imagine that I am free from the attachment to the job or the praise of the supervisor, but I am not. And each one of these startling glimpses into the way ‘I’ operate leads to a greater freedom from ‘my’ habitual clinging and holding of people, places, and things. Merely wanting to be free from these things is, of course, not enough. One has to be able to experience the ‘me’ in action, see ‘me’ in all my cunningness, duplicity, and dishonesty. One needs to be neither in love with love, or embittered and disillusioned by love’s failures. One needs to see oneself for who one is, and when I use the word ‘one’ I am referring to the alien entity inhabiting this flesh-and-blood body. When one really sees oneself for who one is, one is free to be what one is.
‘VINEETO’: The closer I looked into the so-called positive feelings that I had cherished for so long, the more I discovered that love had no tangible benefits, only fleeting emotions and un-kept promises. Inevitably attachment would lead to resentment, fear and jealousy, the desire for unconditional love would lead to unconditional, as in unquestioning, dependency and the desire to appear unconditionally loving would lead to self-contempt, hypocrisy and an emotional and physical withdrawal from the so-called bad world.
So ‘disillusionment’, as in acknowledging that love has failed to bring an actual peace and harmony between human beings, is a necessary starting point as one dismantles imagination and discovers the facts.
When you say ‘one needs to see oneself for who one is’ I was reminded of this quote from Richard about seeing facts, and it has helped me a few times to overcome fear and do what was obviously the next step – (Actualism, Vineeto, AF-List, Gary-c, 23.3.2001)
Sonya: Just been slowly reading this over and over again as each time something clicks but it’s interesting how it’s all slowly revealing itself.
Don’t be discouraged by the slowness of things becoming more clear. Actual freedom is radical, it’s neither taught in school are at home, it entirely new. And it is very helpful to read over a piece of writing several times, so that your consciousness (your brain in action) can digest the various ramifications of what is being written.
>Sonya: For the past 5 or so years I have been ignoring that I have in fact been in love, not to the “normal” extent as it hasn’t been nurtured but I have nevertheless allowed myself to fall in love. I’ve always known that of course there was loving feelings there but I was never able to admit to myself that I have fallen in love and dismissing it as “loving feelings” which didn’t need to be looked at. I’ve fully become entangled in it. The aim was never to fall in love but I seem to have ended up here anyways. I can begin to see it now, the authority, dependency, nurturing. It’s all because I have fallen in love.
This is an excellent discovery and good news – to finally have the appropriate label for the conglomerate of feelings (good and bad feelings) that you experienced “for the past 5 or so years”. It is easy, especially when familiar with actualism writings to kid oneself that one is forewarned and forearmed. And yet love itself is a strong instinctual and social conditioning that because of being forewarned love can easily go unnoticed. In that case only rigorous sincerity will bring it out in the open. Usually the negative side-effects of love such as possessiveness and jealousy, wanting to change the other according to one’s own image and similar domineering feelings and behaviour finally give it away.
Sonya: I mean, of course merely saying I don’t want to be in love or logical not seeing the sense in it is not enough and actually experiencing it myself, looking at it, exploring it and actually knowing fully to my bones that I don’t want it never happened. I never found out experientially that this is not the path I want to go down. It feels like a weight lifting off my shoulders finally realising and admitting this, it explains the intense bad feelings (the other side of love) whenever the good feelings of love weren’t reciprocated. I’ve been repressing, ignoring, brushing it under the rug all this time. (link)
This is a great description of what being in love entails and already knowing this much about yourself will help you to extricate yourself from the trap of love. I guess you won’t get much support from your girlfriends in this endeavour! You are to entirely rely on your own determination and experiential expertise in this exciting adventure. However, you are not on your own –
Richard: It is not for the faint of heart or the weak of knee … but pure intent, born out of the connection between one’s inherent naiveté and the perfection of the infinitude of this physical universe, will provide one with the necessary intestinal fortitude. And once embarked upon the wide and wondrous path to an actual freedom, you are not on your own: this perfection is with you all the way … but if you waver, you are indeed doing it on your own. It is a matter of having the courage of your convictions and letting nothing stand in your way; determination and perseverance are the essential prerequisites to ensure success … coupled with application and diligence. To sum it all up: having the “courage of your convictions” has nothing to do with believing, trusting, hoping, having faith or building a certitude that it be possible. Personally, I never believed or trusted that it was possible; nor did I have hope or faith or certitude, for such an action of believing, trusting, hoping and having faith and certitude perpetuates the believer, the truster, the hoper and the faithful certifier. On the contrary, I could no longer believe that it was not possible … which is a different action entirely. I stopped believing, period. (Richard’s Journal, Article Seven, p. 60).
I wish you all the success and fun for this great adventure.
Cheers Vineeto
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Yes, I actually noticed when I began to blame the other day. It was actually the time that @Kub933 wrote about when the drink was accidentally knocked over the back of the sofa. He went to blame and I went to blame right back 
. I quickly noticed there was the anxiety and fear of punishment that was bubbling up which propelled me to retaliate. When I noticed I was doing the tit for tat blame game again I shutup and consciously decided to stop right then and there. I saw there was no point, and that actually there was no punishment that was coming so why am I continuing on this game? There was still tension as we both did still start the game but it dispated quickly, luckily for my friend who was sat in the room with us and got slightly caught in the cross fire 
Over the past two days there has been an excitement and anxiety as I’ve been contemplating actually standing on my own two feet. I feel as if I have stepped away from hiding behind Kuba but not quite yet taken the step further to stand entirely on my own two feet. Almost like im staying very close, just incase I need to dart back to the “safety” 
.
I’ve been starting to notice and pick up on the loving feelings that come up. Noticing the good feelings of love have been quite eye-opening and being able to pick up on the behaviour I display to chase those good feelings. This has also led me to notice the bad feelings that come into play very quickly when the good feelings aren’t nurtured. Yesterday, Kuba said jokingly “why are you so far away from me, you don’t like me anymore”. Although he was joking, I immediately felt responsible for making him feel better, I felt the urge to immediately go comfort him and prove to him that of course I still like him so I felt secure again and resentment then followed quickly. Funny how I’ve been blind to it for so long.
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Yes this was kind of cute when I looked back on it later, in that instant I could see we both stopped and kept our hands in our pockets, I know I was doing it and I could tell you were doing it, although neither voiced it. So it was unilateral but also well synchronised 
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Ah, yes, the ole’ actualist pocket-handed standoff.
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Yes 180 degrees opposite indeed, in this duel it’s whose hands go back into the pockets first so that peace can eventuate 
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Recently I’ve been thinking about how we relate to each other via reactions, especially in our romantic relationships.
When we express something we’re not only broadcasting our affective state as a ping, but also we expect an immediate response as a pong to get a sense of the affective state of the other in regards to us.
We have ingrained and normalized equating caring about the other with the way they respond or not respond. If you remain in silence or respond calmly, then you must not care. If you take your time, perhaps you are not being authentic or are thinking of a way out.
Then we have the perverse incentives over this, deliberately using this mechanism to test our partners via reaction harvesting as an strategy, we can even maliciously hit them by making hurtful comments to ellicit responses for our own validation or pleasure (ie. commenting on another person’s beauty to ellicit jealousy).
No wonder there’s almost always conflict escalation when we have all this backwards. Pausing and reflecting is what separates us from the rest of the animals, and yet we praise an explosive dirty form of careless caring over a more actual and benign careful caring.
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Vineeto: Good. Now that you see it a bit clearer, can you understand that someone has to stop the tit-for-tat blame-game if you both want to live in peace and harmony? And because the only person you can change is yourself – the buck can stop with you, if you choose to.
Sonya: Yes, I actually noticed when I began to blame the other day. It was actually the time that Kuba wrote about when the drink was accidentally knocked over the back of the sofa. He went to blame and I went to blame right back. I quickly noticed there was the anxiety and fear of punishment that was bubbling up which propelled me to retaliate. When I noticed I was doing the tit for tat blame game again I shut-up and consciously decided to stop right then and there. I saw there was no point, and that actually there was no punishment that was coming so why am I continuing on this game? There was still tension as we both did still start the game but it dissipated quickly, luckily for my friend who was sat in the room with us and got slightly caught in the cross fire.
Hi Sonya,
Ah, you understood the gist of the blaming game, and already put into action to stop it. It won’t take long to extinguish this unhealthy (silly) habit when you keep paying attention to how you feel.
Vineeto: This is certainly more clear, and again, the onus is on you to change this kind of relationship, unilaterally. After all, as you said “the one that doesn’t actually exist but I feel it to be real” and therefore you can choose to aim for a different kind of relationship. You can, gradually, stand on your own two feet, don’t expect to be protected and provided for and can relate with your partner in a more amicable basis.
Sonya: Over the past two days there has been an excitement and anxiety as I’ve been contemplating actually standing on my own two feet. I feel as if I have stepped away from hiding behind Kuba but not quite yet taken the step further to stand entirely on my own two feet. Almost like I’m staying very close, just in case I need to dart back to the “safety”.
This is a big change and you can be patient with yourself. Each time you notice you are ‘hiding’ you consider if it’s worthwhile to step out into the open instead. The more often you do it the more confidence you gain. It’s fun, and the thrill of doing something daring adds to the adventure.
Vineeto: This is an excellent discovery and good news – to finally have the appropriate label for the conglomerate of feelings (good and bad feelings) that you experienced “for the past 5 or so years”. It is easy, especially when familiar with actualism writings to kid oneself that one is forewarned and forearmed. And yet love itself is a strong instinctual and social conditioning that because of being forewarned love can easily go unnoticed. In that case only rigorous sincerity will bring it out in the open. Usually the negative side-effects of love such as possessiveness and jealousy, wanting to change the other according to one’s own image and similar domineering feelings and behaviour finally give it away.
Sonya: I’ve been starting to notice and pick up on the loving feelings that come up. Noticing the good feelings of love have been quite eye-opening and being able to pick up on the behaviour I display to chase those good feelings. This has also led me to notice the bad feelings that come into play very quickly when the good feelings aren’t nurtured. Yesterday, Kuba said jokingly “why are you so far away from me, you don’t like me anymore”. Although he was joking, I immediately felt responsible for making him feel better, I felt the urge to immediately go comfort him and prove to him that of course I still like him so I felt secure again and resentment then followed quickly. Funny how I’ve been blind to it for so long. (link)
Well, Sonya, you have discovered three big aspects of your ‘persona’, which have the potential to now make your life more felicitous and innocuous. Isn’t it amazing how simply paying attention to how you experience life with intent uncover the secrets preventing you from enjoying and appreciating being here produce so many excellent results? I am looking forward to more reports of your success.
Cheers Vineeto
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Everything has been pretty steady lately, I’ve started to notice a few aspects in my life and interactions where love has crept in. For example, Kuba has been enjoying playing his video game, during the week I would come home and notice a feeling of disappointment come up to see him absorbed in his game. I noticed that what I was wanting after coming home, was to get the good feelings of a loving connection from him after not seeing him all day, and of course as soon as that wasn’t received it evolved to the bad feeling. Well, rather then mope about, I decided that I can, infact, have a great time doing something that I wanted to do rather than wait around to receive some loving feelings, which would ultimately end in disappointment. So, I decided to go give Poncho a bath instead (visual reference below) 
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I used to always say that I looked forward to coming home from work and seeing Kuba, I now realise that what I was looking forward to was to receive the loving good feelings.
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Sonya: Everything has been pretty steady lately, I’ve started to notice a few aspects in my life and interactions where love has crept in. For example, Kuba has been enjoying playing his video game, during the week I would come home and notice a feeling of disappointment come up to see him absorbed in his game. I noticed that what I was wanting after coming home, was to get the good feelings of a loving connection from him after not seeing him all day, and of course as soon as that wasn’t received it evolved to the bad feeling. Well, rather then mope about, I decided that I can, in fact, have a great time doing something that I wanted to do rather than wait around to receive some loving feelings, which would ultimately end in disappointment. So, I decided to go give Poncho a bath instead (visual reference below) (link)
Hi Sonya,
Are you aware that you have just transferred those “loving good feelings” to your dog who was at the time more receptive than Kuba? I am sure you will work out over time how you can relate in a more naïve intimacy-based relating – from fellow human being to fellow human being, who both basically share the same aim – to live together in peace and harmony, and revel in the delights of enjoying each other’s company and shared intimacy – once he takes a break from his game, that is.
Sonya: I used to always say that I looked forward to coming home from work and seeing Kuba, I now realise that what I was looking forward to was to receive the loving good feelings. (link)
A good observation, and it’s worthwhile to more and more replace that expectation “to receive the loving good feelings” with autonomy, which enables a non-possessive intimate relating and appreciation – togetherness and closeness, without expectation or blame, simply enjoying and appreciating as intimately as possible, a fellow human being’s company.
Cheers Vineeto
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Hi Vineeto,
Now that you mention it, I can see that I’ve done exactly that . In terms of relating in a more naïve intimacy-based relating, the closest example I can think of when relating to kuba or anyone in that way is when conversation is flowing, light hearted jokes bouncing back and fourth between each other, feeling comfortable/at ease/interested, with no agenda for how the interaction would go. This is the closest example I can think of interms of a naïve intimacy-based relating.
This is a good reminder, eliminating the expectation and blame will ultimnately mean I can relate to my fellow human being as intimately as possible. I like the words togetherness and closeness, sometimes I feel myself straying towards seperation and solitude when investigating all these loving feelings. It’s important to remember that it’s about removing that veil and actually being closer intimate.
Thank you 
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