Kub933's Journal

In the words of my favourite YouTube content creator - “who let me have this much fun?!” :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes: . It’s so great to proceed now as a bona fide actualist, patiently dismantling whatever stands in the way of ongoing enjoyment and appreciation, it is indeed the “best game in town”. It is not about the investigation as an end in itself, it is that with each belief dismantled, with each habitual pattern left behind etc there is a palpable increase in happiness and harmlessness. Any genuine change ‘I’ get for keeps, the dividends are paid each moment again. I was thinking this when I was walking to the shops the other day, that it’s cool to develop a new skill in BJJ however the dividends are only paid when I go to practice BJJ, actualism is even better than that, any genuine change I benefit from each moment again for the rest of my life.

Yesterday after uncovering resentment I had big cry in the car when driving to train, it was like the dam broke. It was something like “what the hell have I been doing (‘being’) all this time”. This resentment was like a blanket of bitterness that covered all of ‘me’ and yet somehow “from the inside” it remained unseen. Then the blanket was removed and ‘I’ came face to face with the consequences of it, just what it had been doing al this time. How it got in the way of peace and intimacy between me and my fellow human beings. And there was this “call for action” in that experience, this intense yearning to set things right, which it was clear that this ultimately requires for ‘me’ to sacrifice ‘myself’. It was very clear that altruistic self-immolation is nothing at all like ‘me’ uncovering a belief or acknowledging something intellectually etc. What it takes for ‘me’ to altruistically sacrifice ‘myself’ is an even more powerful energy than ‘my’ selfism and it is sourced in an enormous caring and daring, it’s the entirety of ‘my’ being willing to go into extinction now, to set things right once and for all. I saw that this is the only way to ultimately “make those tears count”. Of course in the meantime I do exactly what I am doing, which is to proceed down the wide and wondrous path, both for the immediate benefit and eventually the ultimate benefit.

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Hi Kuba,

What a marvellous experience and description of discovering a basic resentment underneath it all and how it “got in the way of peace and intimacy between me and my fellow human beings”, so much so that it made you realise that only ‘self’-sacrifice can resolve this significant obstacle. And even more wonderful that this insight, this “intense yearning to set things right” unleashed the powerful energy of “an enormous caring and daring” which you had walled up in your “precious independence and its resultant splendid isolation” – as Devika so eloquently called it. (Richard’s Journal, p. 218).

This powerful energy has been lying dormant for all those years and your yearning for ongoing enjoyment and appreciation has finally set it free. What a wondrous outcome and eminent proof that the actualism method of enjoying and appreciating this moment being alive, each moment again, works miraculously.

Life is truly wonderful.

I am full of admiration for your daring and caring.

Cheers Vineeto

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Replying to this one here - Sonya’s journal - #188 by Vineeto :

Hi Vineeto,

Vineeto: The latest spat between you and Kuba (link and following) only shows that each has still plenty to look at.

That is a rather succinct way of describing it and I totally agree, and gosh looking at what is currently going on in the forum it looks like we may have infected others too! :grimacing:. It is instructive to read your response in Sonya’s journal and be reminded of what harmlessness looks like.

So now that I can look at it sensibly there is something useful that this “latest spat” (broadcasted publicly no less) highlighted for me.

Essentially it is that I cannot be harmless as long as there are ‘hooks’ in me or ‘buttons’ which can be pressed. And in fact that is exactly what everybody else is doing / has been doing already, in that everybody wants to be peaceful and harmonious and yet good intentions are simply not enough if one is carrying all these ‘hooks’ or ‘buttons’ which can and will sooner or later be activated. Then of course it is easier to apportion blame to the other, for having been “unreasonable enough” to trigger my response, and yet I am the one carrying those unexamined buttons. Also this sets in motion a race to pinpoint the first person who was “out of line”.

I see the above very clearly now, I mean it’s right in the open and cannot be ignored. The other related thing is that as long as those ‘buttons’/’hooks’ remain whatever ‘harmlessness’ I generate will be conditional, which means it will require that I change others in line with it, which means that sooner or later I have to resort to force, so then it is still not harmless! And thirdly, and this is exactly what I have been doing for years now - not wanting to engage in conflict I will resort to a quiet resentment against “all the unfairness, injustice etc”.

So I see this whole house of cards that has been exposed here, in that sense I am glad that those events took place, along with the “public broadcast” as there is no hiding now. So I am actually rather excited now, to see what ‘buttons’ exist in me and to attend to those so that a genuine and unconditional harmlessness can be discovered, exciting times!

And rest assured the vibes in the household have already shifted from a thunderstorm to white cloudy skies with some sun poking through :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes: .

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Kuba: Replying to this one here – Sonya’s journal - #188 by Vineeto :
Hi Vineeto,

Vineeto to Sonya: The latest spat between you and Kuba (link and following) only shows that each has still plenty to look at.

Kuba: That is a rather succinct way of describing it and I totally agree, and gosh looking at what is currently going on in the forum it looks like we may have infected others too! [grimace]. It is instructive to read your response in Sonya’s journal and be reminded of what harmlessness looks like.

Hi Kuba,

I appreciate your sensible reply, and this was the reason I specially emphasised the harmlessness in my reply to Sonya. After all, this forum is “set up to enable and facilitate the discussion of actualism” (link) which is the way to become happy and harmless via enjoyment and appreciation (and investigating/ removing the obstacles as they occur). If those discussions themselves are not harmless but focus on laying blame on others, then the whole atmosphere here is unfavourably affected by those words and vibes. This is merely common sense.

Kuba: So now that I can look at it sensibly there is something useful that this “latest spat” (broadcasted publicly no less) highlighted for me.
Essentially it is that I cannot be harmless as long as there are ‘hooks’ in me or ‘buttons’ which can be pressed. And in fact that is exactly what everybody else is doing / has been doing already, in that everybody wants to be peaceful and harmonious and yet good intentions are simply not enough if one is carrying all these ‘hooks’ or ‘buttons’ which can and will sooner or later be activated. Then of course it is easier to apportion blame to the other, for having been “unreasonable enough” to trigger my response, and yet I am the one carrying those unexamined buttons. Also this sets in motion a race to pinpoint the first person who was “out of line”.

Yes, this is the magical secret of actualism – it is in your hands alone to unilaterally become more happy and more harmless. If something upsets you, you look for the “hook” and resolve it – either good feelings or bad feelings – even when the temptation to be righteously angry beckons. Feeling being ‘Vineeto’ wrote in 2002 –

‘Vineeto’: The longer I observe how I am in relation to other people, the more I find that whenever another person evokes an affective reaction in me then there is some kind of invisible thread or emotional hook also present on my side. I remember a visit from a close relative and how at first I felt guilty for not returning the love, affection and excitement that was offered to me. It was as if a web of invisible, yet sticky vibes was cast out to catch me into feeling loyal to and connected with her. These bonding strings might well be presented as a generous offer of love or friendship, yet – often unbeknownst to the person himself or herself – this offer always contains a request for returned feelings, a demand for support and an obligation for further loyalty. In other words, love is never unconditional, it is always given with conditions and it is only received subject to conditions.
In the situation with my relative I was able after a while to understand the nature and source of my guilt by observation and investigation and then, by being free of my feelings of guilt I was able to give her my full attention and care. While we spent time together we were able to talk as fellow human beings, swap stories about how each experiences life and what each had found out so far about the business of being a human being.
As for a one-to-one man-woman relationship, I found that the sorrow that you described as being associated with love is due to the inevitable expectation of returned favours and feelings. Love by its very nature cannot stand by itself. Love always needs a giver and a receiver, someone who loves and someone who is eager to be loved. In my ‘past-life’ love-relationships, my dreams of how I wanted to live life were automatically intertwined with the man I loved – as a woman I gave him the responsibility for my happiness and I expected him to do the same. (Then I am also jealously guarding that he is not happy without me!) (Actualism, Vineeto, AF List, Gary-g, 12.10.2002)

This might also be informative –

‘Vineeto’: I experienced my psychic connection with people as emotional strings consisting of thousands of single strands – beliefs, values and instinctual passions – which I had to unhook one by one. Sometimes a whole bunch of them were loosened at once, and what a realization, but often it was a matter of tracing one feeling to its core and finding all the little ties and knots that connected me with the feelings and beliefs of other people. Often I was shocked when such a tie broke, particularly when I ‘unhooked’ my affective connection to a person close to me such as a family member or formerly close friends. (Actualism, Vineeto, AF List, No. 38b, 16.5.2002)

It is because of these emotional strings that you feel an affective pull or threat when the other person is changing their position towards you. So when Sonya wrote “It’s scary for me to contemplate doing this as it means severing our ‘relationship’” most likely ‘fright’ would have been your first instinctual reaction, quickly followed by a ‘fight’ response. All you can do in such an intense situation is keeping your hands in your pockets, calm down, and then allow sensibility to take back the driver’s seat. Remember, according to LeDoux’ experimental findings, the instinctual response from the brain is quicker (12 milliseconds) compared to the response from the neo-cortex (25 milliseconds). (Actual Freedom Library, Instinctual Passions).

Kuba: I see the above very clearly now, I mean it’s right in the open and cannot be ignored. The other related thing is that as long as those ‘buttons’/ ‘hooks’ remain whatever ‘harmlessness’ I generate will be conditional, which means it will require that I change others in line with it, which means that sooner or later I have to resort to force, so then it is still not harmless! And thirdly, and this is exactly what I have been doing for years now – not wanting to engage in conflict I will resort to a quiet resentment against “all the unfairness, injustice etc”.

Indeed. Ha, “quiet resentment”, even in the name of pacifism, is not harmless either. And yet, it is such a simple solution, at least in principle, that it instantly appealed to ‘Vineeto’ when she understood Richard’s reports and explanations and then had a PCE to confirm it all. In practice the discovering, acknowledging and then dismantling of those hooks or ‘triggers’ takes longer but each time you take responsibility and dissolve them it’s a stunning success, leaving no scars.

Kuba: So I see this whole house of cards that has been exposed here, in that sense I am glad that those events took place, along with the “public broadcast” as there is no hiding now. So I am actually rather excited now, to see what ‘buttons’ exist in me and to attend to those so that a genuine and unconditional harmlessness can be discovered, exciting times!

That’s great to hear, a whole new adventure beckons.

Kuba: And rest assured the vibes in the household have already shifted from a thunderstorm to white cloudy skies with some sun poking through. (link)

I am pleased you (both?) have seen it so quickly. I am looking forward to hearing of your respective discoveries in the new way of relating in naïve intimacy.

Cheers Vineeto

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Hi Vineeto,

Thank you for your reply, currently there is so much going on that I don’t know where to look first haha! It’s like there are all these various explorations surrounding harmlessness, then there is this goal of locating naivete by attending to those childhood hurts and the resentful persona which spawned from them, and thus becoming liking and likeable. And then there is something which has been going on since the other day too, it started with what I always mentioned to Sonya as “actualism headaches”, which happen as an intense pressure right in the nape of the neck (without any accompanying muscular tightness in the shoulders etc) and will typically last a day or two before finalising with heightened experiences of perfection and purity, it’s like the experience of coming to my senses, literally. And this experience of literally coming to my senses has been happening since yesterday and today in a way which I haven’t experienced before. It was particularly “vibrant” just before I wrote my post to you yesterday, like the entire world was shimmering with aliveness. And then there is the seeing that in the world of the senses ‘I’ have no existence at all, and where ‘I’ am not, all is pristine.

Fascinating times indeed.

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Kuba: Hi Vineeto,
Thank you for your reply, currently there is so much going on that I don’t know where to look first haha! It’s like there are all these various explorations surrounding harmlessness, then there is this goal of locating naiveté by attending to those childhood hurts and the resentful persona which spawned from them, and thus becoming liking and likeable. And then there is something which has been going on since the other day too, it started with what I always mentioned to Sonya as “actualism headaches”, which happen as an intense pressure right in the nape of the neck (without any accompanying muscular tightness in the shoulders etc) and will typically last a day or two before finalising with heightened experiences of perfection and purity, it’s like the experience of coming to my senses, literally. And this experience of literally coming to my senses has been happening since yesterday and today in a way which I haven’t experienced before. It was particularly “vibrant” just before I wrote my post to you yesterday, like the entire world was shimmering with aliveness. And then there is the seeing that in the world of the senses ‘I’ have no existence at all, and where ‘I’ am not, all is pristine.
Fascinating times indeed. (link)

Hi Kuba,

Enjoy. Your goals and plans only require naiveté to allow fully and with it actively allow pure intent, then they the rest might just happen of its own accord – with your permission – now that the lid is off. I am reminded Claudiu’s description after he came back from visiting Geoffrey –

Claudiu: I would say it like I am now in the position where it’s clear which direction to go, and have no doubt that I can do it and that it will work, and it’s just a matter of ehm … actually doing it lol. It feels like the last pieces of “do I really want this forever?” getting myself on board, but that I do still need to answer that question in the affirmative. The other interesting thing is before I experienced it like there was no brakes anymore, yet I could still put on the gas more or less… now I experience it like not only are there no brakes, but there’s no gas pedal either. There’s nothing I can do to make the process happen faster or slower, it happens at the pace it happens. However I am still able to sort of squirm away from it, it’s not like the process can pull me forward against my will, if that makes sense. But when my will is aligned then off it goes. Even though this makes it sound like I have some control over it, I wouldn’t really put it that way. When I am aligned there’s nothing I can do to accelerate or pause it. But I am able to still ‘misalign’ myself.
I say this not as advice but just description of what is happening lol, and if Vineeto and/or Geoffrey have any advice they can read it and see… but the way forward is clear enough, continue appreciating the enormity of the stakes of total extinction, and see if it really is what I really want, as it is for keepsies. (link)

I know the “pain in the neck” quite well and Richard described it here –

Richard: For about three weeks prior to this she had been experiencing a near-constant pressure-pain in the nape of the neck, so she knew that something was imminent, as well as experiencing what she referred to as ‘an ambrosial immanence’ filling her up, inasmuch from time-to-time she could bear no more of it (such as to cause her to refrain from interacting intensively for two-three days until it dissipated) due to it being ‘too much’ or ‘too overwhelming’ for her.
Then, at the moment she became essentially the same as me (how I have been, on my own, all these years) there was a tremendous upwards surge of that energetic immanence, in and around my head and shoulders region, of such a potency, of such a strength, as would previously (on some occasion) render me utterly passive, completely immobile, and scarcely able to bear with it, to contain its immensity. (Richard, List D, Claudiu, 9 Feb 2012).

It not only happened at this particular time but many times before, I came to consider it as part of getting physically/ sensately accustomed to the immense puissance of actuality. Sometimes I called it getting used to the higher frequency – which might easily be only a metaphor but that is how I experienced it. There was a period when Richard and I lived together, shortly before the time Richard described in the above quote, where lying next to him made me physically so uncomfortably charged up (akin to too much electricity) that I had to move away half a meter in order to go to sleep. It settled down after a couple of weeks.

I am always pleased when I read descriptions like this – “like the entire world was shimmering with aliveness” – when the actual world becomes more and more apparent.

Cheers Vineeto

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>Kuba: Hi Vineeto,
(…) It’s like there are all these various explorations surrounding harmlessness, then there is this goal of locating naivete by attending to those childhood hurts and the resentful persona which spawned from them, and thus becoming liking and likeable. (…) (link)

Hi Kuba,

Regarding “attending to those childhood hurts”, this snippet from Richard’s personal web-page came to mind which you might find informative, even though you probably read it before –

Richard: Speaking personally, the feeling-being inhabiting this flesh-and-blood body all those years ago instantaneously rid ‘himself’ of the bulk of those school-age hurts and slights – whilst sitting out in the sunshine one fine morning, putting pencil to paper in order to finally record those dastardly events for posterity, as per a long-held and cherished ambition to do so at length – via seeing-in-a-flash that, as it was simply not possible to ever physically be a child again (and thus juvenilely susceptible to not only those bully-boys and feisty-femmes but any enabling teachers and principals as well), there was absolutely no need whatsoever to continue nursing them as a carryover grudge. It soon became increasingly apparent, thereafter, how those childhood hurts had been vital to the maintenance of the righteous indignation which fuelled ‘his’ plaints of injustice (a.k.a. ‘unfairness’) and, thus, ‘his’ mission to bring justice (a.k.a. ‘fairness’) to the world. (Richard’s Personal Web-page, Tit-for-Tat Tool-tip).

You see, all the childhood hurts can disappear within the blink of an eye, allowing the penetrating insight that you can never ever be a child again to let all the resent go at once.

Cheers Vineeto

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Hi Vineeto,

Thank you for sharing the quote, this resentment that I carry though it has a slightly different flavour, or that’s what it looks like to me anyways… It’s like - “meh, everything is stupid”.

To give an example, the other day I was excitedly telling Sonya how the cool art pieces she made with her friend look great on the wall, and as I sat back on the sofa to do so I knocked a cup of tea that was on the arm rest, an accident.

But I do not leave it as just an accident, rather it was a result of a “stupid system”, and off I went to create a more “efficient system” for the cups to rest on the sofa. Now the sofa has 2 wooden trays fixed to the arm-rest…

Although writing this now it’s something like this - I am uncomfortable with the feelings which arise when an accident happens or a mistake is made and in an attempt to escape those feelings I desperately try to create these “perfect systems”, it’s like a coping mechanism. Of course this is far from living naively, and I am not like this all the time but rather when something happens to trigger anxious feelings. Not to turn this into a therapy session but my mum was indeed severely punishing of mistakes made when we were young.

So although this looks different initially it is still the same mechanism as what Richard described, the hurt which I am nursing is the fear of punishment at a mistake made, and my mission for justice is to turn the world into a well oiled machine where no mistake will ever be made and so I will be safe from ever being punished.

Hmm, I do recall exactly that feeling when the cup fell, it’s the anticipation of punishment and very quickly I flip this around into finding the fault with the set up, and then I can desperately design a system where no fault will ever be made. And after a lifetime of doing this I have now projected that drama onto the world, now “everything is stupid”.

But it does all seem to be a rather elaborate scheme to avoid the feeling of blame from another, it’s why I emotionally reacted to Sonya’s post the other day too. It’s like I am allergic to being blamed! That feeling of being blamed carries a promise with it… that something bad is to happen.

Aah and now I understand why I have always appreciated talking with you so much Vineeto, it’s like I said a while back that I know you will never ever ‘bite’. This 'bite’ is terrifying to me it seems.

Looking at the above I can see that I initially intellectually understood what Richard’s quote was pointing to. Then I first thought that my resentment was unique, but even as I typed out the post it became clear I was describing the same thing :laughing:.

But then the main ingredient was still missing - which is acknowledging the fact that I will never physically be a child again. Those hurts along with my reactionary responses are echoes from the past, they have no relevance in my life now other than the one I habitually give them.

Kuba: Hi Vineeto,
Thank you for sharing the quote, this resentment that I carry though it has a slightly different flavour, or that’s what it looks like to me anyways… It’s like – “meh, everything is stupid”.
To give an example, the other day I was excitedly telling Sonya how the cool art pieces she made with her friend look great on the wall, and as I sat back on the sofa to do so I knocked a cup of tea that was on the arm rest, an accident.
But I do not leave it as just an accident, rather it was a result of a “stupid system”, and off I went to create a more “efficient system” for the cups to rest on the sofa. Now the sofa has 2 wooden trays fixed to the arm-rest…
Although writing this now it’s something like this – I am uncomfortable with the feelings which arise when an accident happens or a mistake is made and in an attempt to escape those feelings I desperately try to create these “perfect systems”, it’s like a coping mechanism. Of course this is far from living naively, and I am not like this all the time but rather when something happens to trigger anxious feelings. Not to turn this into a therapy session but my mum was indeed severely punishing of mistakes made when we were young.
So although this looks different initially it is still the same mechanism as what Richard described, the hurt which I am nursing is the fear of punishment at a mistake made, and my mission for justice is to turn the world into a well-oiled machine where no mistake will ever be made and so I will be safe from ever being punished.
Hmm, I do recall exactly that feeling when the cup fell, it’s the anticipation of punishment and very quickly I flip this around into finding the fault with the set up, and then I can desperately design a system where no fault will ever be made. And after a lifetime of doing this I have now projected that drama onto the world, now “everything is stupid”.
But it does all seem to be a rather elaborate scheme to avoid the feeling of blame from another, it’s why I emotionally reacted to Sonya’s post the other day too. It’s like I am allergic to being blamed! That feeling of being blamed carries a promise with it… that something bad is to happen.
Aah and now I understand why I have always appreciated talking with you so much Vineeto, it’s like I said a while back that I know you will never ever ‘bite’. This 'bite’ is terrifying to me it seems. (link)

Hi Kuba,

You are right – men in general tend to want to fix problems often before assessing all the causes, including the feelings which might have caused the problem.

Richard: Thus, by asking ‘how am I experiencing this moment of being alive’ the reward is immediate; by finding out what triggered off the loss of feeling good, one commences another period of enjoying this moment of being alive. It is all about being here now at this moment in time and this place in space … and if you are not feeling good you have no chance whatsoever of being here now in this actual world. (A grumpy person locks themselves out of the perfect purity of this moment and place). Of course, once you get the knack of this, one up-levels ‘feeling good’, as a bottom-line each moment again, to ‘feeling happy’. And after that: ‘feeling perfect’. These are all feelings, this is not perfection personified yet … but then again, feeling perfect for twenty-three hours and fifty-nine minutes a day is way beyond ‘normal’ human expectations anyway. Also, it is a very tricky way of both getting men fully into their feelings for the first time in their life and getting women to examine their feelings one by one instead of being run by a basketful of them all at once. One starts to feel ‘alive’ for the first time in one’s life. (From ‘Richard’s Journal’ © ‘The Actual Freedom Trust’ 1997; pages 257-258).

Once you are aware which feeling is causing your feeling bad when ‘accidents’ happen (label it), the next thing is to look for the pattern. The way you describe your symptoms it sounds like it’s time to abandon your internal ‘mother’, in other words, the moral and ethical rules, dogmas and concepts, which she has both inherited and passed onto you. It would also explain what you called being a ‘high achiever’ and perhaps why you have difficulty to both be a friend to yourself and to put everything on a ‘it doesn’t really matter’ basis.

The resentment is the result of the fact of never, ever being able to be perfect. But wherefrom comes the demand of having to be perfect. And why do you still value this rule/ concept when it keeps making you miserable? Again, it’s to look at both sides of the equation – the bad feelings you don’t like and ‘good’ feelings you want to hang onto.

Kuba: [Addendum]: Looking at the above I can see that I initially intellectually understood what Richard’s quote was pointing to. Then I first thought that my resentment was unique, but even as I typed out the post it became clear I was describing the same thing.
But then the main ingredient was still missing – which is acknowledging the fact that I will never physically be a child again. Those hurts along with my reactionary responses are echoes from the past, they have no relevance in my life now other than the one I habitually give them. (link)

Indeed, your physical mother will not punish you anymore but you have already internalised her moral and ethical values to the extent of now doing the punishing (blaming) of your own accord. Someone else’s blame is not the original problem, it only aggravates your own pre-existing blame.

Blaming the system is a variation on the theme of blaming the fact that humans are born with instinctual passions (the biblical original sin) and therefore can only ever try to be morally good and ethically right but overall are bound to fail whilst being alive – unless/until you cease ‘being’. In the meantime there is a way to by-pass all this serious judgemental business –

R: One woman accused me, years ago, of being judgemental. I said: ‘Of course I am, I do not hold that belief.’ I am neither a New-age aficionado nor a Christian so I can be as judgemental as all get-out … not that I use the word, personally. Try ‘appraisal’; that will get you away from the moralistic overtones. One does an appraisal of a person, a thing or an event: ‘That’s useful; that’s not. That is silly; that is sensible’. Of course one does this. How on earth can one conduct one’s affairs without appraising, without reviewing, in some way?
It is helpful to rid oneself of the concept of ‘Right’ and ‘Wrong’ and utilise ‘silly’ and ‘sensible’. You will be a lot better off. For example: It is silly to be unhappy, it is sensible to be happy.
Q(1): It’s using the same word for ‘Good and Bad’ and ‘Right and Wrong’.
R: Not at all. It is not moralistic; it is about the workability of something, the usefulness of whatever it is. I am talking about a very practical thing: It is sensible to be happy; it is silly to be unhappy. It is silly to feel rotten; it is sensible to feel well. You see, it is not self-righteous at all – it is a matter-of fact appraisal.
Q(1): No, I wouldn’t use moralistic for that – about being happy.
R: Nor for anything. Please, do not use ‘silly’ and ‘sensible’ as a substitute for moralistic values … that would defeat the purpose. It is a practical, everyday, common-sense thing: ‘How am I feeling at this moment?’ or ‘Am I feeling good?’ or ‘Am I feeling bad?’ … ‘Oh that’s silly, I’ll do something about myself until I feel good’. Simply, it is sensible to feel good. This is my moment of being alive – I am not alive five minutes ago, nor am I alive five minutes ahead. This is my only moment of being here. How am I experiencing this moment? If I am not experiencing it well now, when will I? It will be a ‘now’ moment when I do, so why not make this ‘now’ moment … this one that is happening right now. Why waste it by feeling rotten? Why not enjoy it?
It works! I am not merely talking theory, this is what I did back in ‘81. I have not missed a moment for sixteen years … it is always this moment. What a misspent life, to waste each moment waiting for a future happiness … to sit around feeling rotten, berating oneself, feeling guilty, and so on.
And another way to be rid of … Do you want me to go on?
Q(1): I’m digesting, I’m listening.
R: On a slightly different track … another way of operating is to put everything on a ‘it does not matter’ basis – you know, where you prefer to do something rather than have to? (Richard, Audio-Taped Dialogues, Silly or Sensible).

Cheers Vineeto

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Hi Vineeto,

I very much appreciate you helping me explore and understand what is going on.

This is now getting to the very nitty-gritty of ‘me’, interesting that you also saw the link to the high achiever and the rest of it, I thought the same thing yesterday when writing the post. For some history of me… I was born premature and caught a chest infection immediately after birth, from what I am told I was on the verge of not making it for the first couple of weeks of my life! When I was well enough to be taken home my mother took a particularly nurturing approach towards me (understandably), she even breast fed me up to some rather ridiculous age, I think 6 or something, I slept in bed with her rather than on my own etc. And indeed we had a very tight bond, I do remember this from my younger years, it seems through this bond her psychological and psychic make up imprinted onto mine, and she was back then anxious, stressful and volatile far beyond what is called ‘normal’. At the same time though she held this notion that I was special, that I could do no wrong. We often joke about this with Sonya, that I could go rob a bank tomorrow and she would go round telling people what an enterprising young man I am. So what you called the “internal mother” this is actually a very core aspect of the persona that I am. And I am now becoming aware of just how much of my psychological and psychic make up I inherited from her, gosh I don’t even think I could distinguish between ‘me’ and the ‘internal mother’.

Yes you really hit the nail on the head, thank you! I do live by this intrinsic command that I must be perfect at all times and in all situations. And in a way it reminds me of what Felix has described of himself on the forum, it’s taking this corrupted perfectionism and turning it onto actualism. But you see this is all currently muddled up for me, because in actualism I am seeking to evince perfection, as experienced in the PCE. I wish I had a different word for it, to distinguish between that perfectionism of the ‘internal mother’ and the perfection which I am looking to evince as an actualist. Perhaps it’s clear enough to distinguish between actual perfection and moral perfection? But then again Richard wrote that his responses are impeccable at all times, although I know this does not mean that he was immune to error…

So you see this is all muddled up for me currently, this ‘corrupted perfectionism’ is somehow tangled up with my goal as an actualist, which is to evince perfection and to eliminate any ‘dirt’.

To add some more context to the above. On Tuesday I was asked to teach a BJJ class for a university club. The class was so busy that it was almost impossible for the participants to get any productive work done as they had no space. On the other hand I was acutely aware of the fact that I was there as some “big shot”, during the introductions my accolades were presented by the host etc. Really I was kind of uncomfortable with it all, I do like to relate to others as fellow human beings without all that other fluff… And yet at the same time I was kicking myself after the session finished because I had this acute feeling of having let them down, mostly because there was no space to get any productive work done, but I am sure that even if there was I would have found some fault with what I did, it would not have been ‘perfect’.

I think this is a good example of the kind of internal conflict which happens because of this 'corrupted perfectionism’.

Hmm what I can make of it so far is that this ‘corrupted perfectionism’ is all to do with what Geoffrey called the “mirror of others”, the ‘perfection’ is dictated by how others see me, how well I match the image that I believe they have of me. But then do they actually hold this image of me? Or do I project it onto them first :face_with_spiral_eyes:

Actual perfection does not need any maintaining or reinforcing, that is clear in the PCE, hence why it is so freeing, no burden anymore, no persona to uphold, no boxes to tick in order to earn a feeling of perfection, and there I can be a fellow human being - what I want.

But this commandment for perfectionism it has been easing up since yesterday, as in I can now taste the flavour of the place outside of it, what it is like to live without it. I remember in the past my main problem with descriptions of actual freedom was that one could apparently sit and do nothing and be having the time of one’s life, oh how this rubbed me the wrong way! :laughing: How could I no longer be busy proving something each moment again!? And then yesterday for the first time in a long time I happily played a cool xbox game on a school night, and I had a lot of fun, and it was not seen in the framework of “wasting time” or anything of the kind. It was like I located a solid foundation which did not require the approval of others to maintain, which means that all this other activity (of maintaining ‘myself’ via the approval of others) was no longer needed, and I could indeed be “doing nothing” and having a blast. It’s a very charming place to be in, to have nothing left to prove and yet to be free to engage in all sorts of fascinating things.

Ah that “solid foundation” I found is naiveté, how sweet! It is the place before ‘I’ became a social identity. It’s where ‘I’ am free to enjoy and appreciate without the obligation to fulfil various oaths, where ‘I’ no longer need to maintain ‘myself’ through that “mirror of others”.

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And the other thing, and this is rather hilarious but in a weird way… It looks like I have projected this ‘inner mother’ onto you Vineeto, an authority still but one that cannot ‘bite’. Well I am sure you can do without being ‘my’ psychic mother so I can only apologise and chalk it up to the human condition being weird and thus coming out of it being equally weird at times :sweat_smile:

At least this thing is slowly but surely becoming undone now.

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Funny you say that because this is also what I did, in the last two years in particular, and it all came crashing down recently. Then I learned to think for myself, and I quite like it. I still value Vineeto’s perspective, of course, but at the same time independent intelligent thinking has begun replacing authority/ trust/ faith/ belief.

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Kuba: Hi Vineeto,
I very much appreciate you helping me explore and understand what is going on.

Vineeto: The way you describe your symptoms it sounds like it’s time to abandon your internal ‘mother’, in other words, the moral and ethical rules, dogmas and concepts, which she has both inherited and passed onto you. It would also explain what you called being a ‘high achiever’ and perhaps why you have difficulty to both be a friend to yourself and to put everything on a ‘it doesn’t really matter’ basis.

Kuba: This is now getting to the very nitty-gritty of ‘me’, interesting that you also saw the link to the high achiever and the rest of it, I thought the same thing yesterday when writing the post. For some history of me… I was born premature and caught a chest infection immediately after birth, from what I am told I was on the verge of not making it for the first couple of weeks of my life! When I was well enough to be taken home my mother took a particularly nurturing approach towards me (understandably), she even breast fed me up to some rather ridiculous age, I think 6 or something, I slept in bed with her rather than on my own etc. And indeed we had a very tight bond, I do remember this from my younger years, it seems through this bond her psychological and psychic make up imprinted onto mine, and she was back then anxious, stressful and volatile far beyond what is called ‘normal’. At the same time though she held this notion that I was special, that I could do no wrong. We often joke about this with Sonya, that I could go rob a bank tomorrow and she would go round telling people what an enterprising young man I am. So what you called the “internal mother” this is actually a very core aspect of the persona that I am. And I am now becoming aware of just how much of my psychological and psychic make up I inherited from her, gosh I don’t even think I could distinguish between ‘me’ and the ‘internal mother’.

Hi Kuba,

Good, now you made a start – recognizing and acknowledging the fact “how much of my psychological and psychic make up” you inherited from your mother. You can probably already recognize particular aspects which stand in the way of ongoing enjoyment and appreciation. It’s not about making the ‘good’ or ‘right’ choice, but the one most sensible according to the circumstance in each particular situation – what’s in the way of an ongoing happiness and harmlessness?

-

Vineeto: The resentment is the result of the fact of never, ever being able to be perfect. But wherefrom comes the demand of having to be perfect. And why do you still value this rule/ concept when it keeps making you miserable? Again, it’s to look at both sides of the equation – the bad feelings you don’t like and ‘good’ feelings you want to hang onto.

Kuba: Yes you really hit the nail on the head, thank you! I do live by this intrinsic command that I must be perfect at all times and in all situations. And in a way it reminds me of what Felix has described of himself on the forum, it’s taking this corrupted perfectionism and turning it onto actualism. But you see this is all currently muddled up for me, because in actualism I am seeking to evince perfection, as experienced in the PCE. I wish I had a different word for it, to distinguish between that perfectionism of the ‘internal mother’ and the perfection which I am looking to evince as an actualist. Perhaps it’s clear enough to distinguish between actual perfection and moral perfection? But then again Richard wrote that his responses are impeccable at all times, although I know this does not mean that he was immune to error…
So you see this is all muddled up for me currently, this ‘corrupted perfectionism’ is somehow tangled up with my goal as an actualist, which is to evince perfection and to eliminate any ‘dirt’.

If I may rephrase your description even though I know what you mean – “taking this corrupted perfectionism and turning it onto actualism”. I would rather say more accurately, keeping the “corrupted perfectionism” going by hiding it (including from yourself) behind an ‘actualistic’ veil.

What’s muddled up to differentiate is your understanding of what actual purity and perfection is – perfection (actuality) becomes apparent when ‘you’ get out of the way. That includes ‘you’ trying to be perfect. Also I think the word ‘evince’ adds to your confusion.

Evince – reveal the presence of (a quality or feeling); indicate. Synonyms: reveal, show, make clear, make plain, make obvious (Oxford Languages)

These definitions/ synonyms can be equivalent to making the actual world apparent, imitating actuality. Whereas the other half of the synonyms – make manifest, manifest, indicate, display, exhibit, demonstrate, be evidence of, evidence – do not. They describe ‘you’ actively attempting to manifest perfection, which is/has been ‘your’ modus operandi, thereby continuously confirming and re-enforcing ‘your’ existence.

Again, for emphasis, the perfection and purity of the actual world is already always existing and ‘your’ presence is obscuring it from becoming apparent. Your aim, looking for actuality, is to get out of the way wherever you can and instead naïvely allow pure intent to guide you. You probably remember Richard’s story when the painting painted itself (and ‘he’ sincerely could take no credit for it) or when the pottery made itself (link). You know from past experiences, it can happen in the blink of an eye.

Richard: Yes, about 23-25 years ago, when the ‘I’ who was made a living as an artist, ‘my’ greatest work came when ‘I’ disappeared and the painting painted itself (in what is sometimes known as an ‘aesthetic experience’) or the pottery threw itself. This is the difference between art and craft – and ‘I’ was very good as a craftsman – but craft became art only when ‘I’ was not present.
All art is initially a representation and, as such, is a reflection funnelled by the artist so that he/she can express what they are experiencing in order to see for themselves – and show to others – what is going on ‘behind the scenes’ as it were. However, when one is fully engrossed in the act of creativity – wherein the painting paints itself for example – the art-form takes on a life of its own and ceases to be a representation during the event.
It is its own actuality: one can only stand in amazement and wonder – which is not to negate the very essential patiently acquired skills and expertise – and this marvelling is what was experienced back when I was a normal person. It was this magical way of creativity that led ‘me’ into this whole investigation of life, the universe and what it is to be a human being. ‘I’ wanted to live life like these utter moments of artistic creation … ‘I’ wanted life to live itself just like the paintings painted themselves.
And thus here I am today as this flesh and blood body only. (Richard, AF List, No. 28, 15 Mar 2003)

I remembered a PCE I had years before I met Richard and learnt the term. Everything was perfect, peaceful, sparkling and still. I remember the thought that ‘oh, I just had to sit on the (same) park bench on the place right next to where I had been sitting’ as a metaphor for how I got here to this experience of purity and perfection.

Kuba: To add some more context to the above. On Tuesday I was asked to teach a BJJ class for a university club. The class was so busy that it was almost impossible for the participants to get any productive work done as they had no space. On the other hand I was acutely aware of the fact that I was there as some “big shot”, during the introductions my accolades were presented by the host etc. Really I was kind of uncomfortable with it all, I do like to relate to others as fellow human beings without all that other fluff… And yet at the same time I was kicking myself after the session finished because I had this acute feeling of having let them down, mostly because there was no space to get any productive work done, but I am sure that even if there was I would have found some fault with what I did, it would not have been ‘perfect’.
I think this is a good example of the kind of internal conflict which happens because of this 'corrupted perfectionism’. (link)

What most likely happened was not that “the class was so busy” which produced “this acute feeling of having let them down” in you, but the pride you felt when your “accolades were presented by the host”. If ‘you’ accept the praise, ‘you’ also accept the responsibility for the blame when it happens. They belong together.

I remember one correspondent from Mailing List B who is living in an ongoing altered state of consciousness, confirming that he was not only omnipotent but also infinitely responsible –

Respondent: I can do nothing, but I do everything. Omnipotence not only comes with the package, it is the package. I am infinitely responsible for I am responsible for each I that I create. I am responsible for being the action that are you, and I am responsible for the action that is I. (Richard, List B, No. 14c, 25 May 1999a).

You see, you cannot have the good (praise) without the bad (full responsibility).

Kuba: And the other thing, and this is rather hilarious but in a weird way… It looks like I have projected this ‘inner mother’ onto you Vineeto, an authority still but one that cannot ‘bite’. Well I am sure you can do without being ‘my’ psychic mother so I can only apologise and chalk it up to the human condition being weird and thus coming out of it being equally weird at times.
At least this thing is slowly but surely becoming undone now. (link)

Ah, it makes no difference to me but recognizing this and changing it makes a big difference to you.

Cheers Vineeto

Hi Vineeto,

Wow these are all such excellent pointers, thank you! I don’t know how much stumbling around in the dark it would have taken me to suss this out otherwise. Really I can’t tell you how helpful this is, it’s like Tetris blocks shifting around on the ‘inside’ currently :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes: I think I need time to properly digest all this and begin to actualise the insights.

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Thanks Kuba for the deeply personal and private exposé of your childhood experience.

I also had something which I have started to unravel with my mother, having lived with her again.

I don’t expect you to remember all the things I post, but one was particularly poignant.

Seeing my own mother as a child!

I had been painting her new ensuite, which had been renovated at exorbitant cost, and her bedroom . She was so over enthusiastic! So much like her own granddaughter, whom will dance with joy when it’s time to be with grandma!

I found a way to deal with my own disturbances when we interact now; how can I not like a child? An enthusiastic child? Never mind that she is 80, and I am 50!

How can we not otherwise like each other when, for a huge chunk of our emotional reality, we barely get past 10 years old!

Cheers

Andrew

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Ah this really makes sense now OMG! Finally ‘I’ can stop trying to ‘be’ perfect (which ends up being some morality anyways) and instead get out of the way so that actual perfection can become apparent. That is such a load off ‘my’ back, it doesn’t have to be so hard :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes: .

Wow that ‘perfectionism’ has been exposed at the very root, this is BIG STUFF for ‘me’. Thank you again Vineeto, I thought I would be going to the grave with that ‘perfectionism’ untouched, and now it is the beginning of it’s end!

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I woke up today and for lack of a better phrase I found myself on planet earth :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes: It hasn’t been a PCE so I guess the qualifier “virtual” applies to these descriptions but there has been this experience of existing securely in time and in space. And it’s such a simple earthly joy of being here, I realise that this is actually all that I want. Looking back to where ‘I’ exist, aptly named “the land of lament” I notice that it is anywhere but here and now, no wonder that ‘I’ suffer.

It has been so refreshing to be reminded that the destination is right here on earth, where this body exists.

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