Kub933's Journal

This has been on my mind alot, contemplating what actual innocence is referring to. And although ‘I’ cannot be actually innocent it has given me a fuller understanding of what harmlessness and happiness is all about. I think this had a big part in allowing me to locate ‘pure’ felicitous and innocuous feelings.

With the above in mind I have been sorting through those feelings (good and bad) which were hiding under the apparent “feeling good” umbrella, and yet they were “nocent”, both to ‘me’ and to others. And I found that only the genuine felicitous and innocuous feelings are free of this propensity to inflict hurt, in whichever direction.

So it’s quite interesting, I can’t put it into words very well yet, but it is the focus on harmlessness, whilst holding in mind what actual innocence means, which allowed me to sort through the various feelings and begin to let go of those which had the capacity to inflict hurt. And doing this I have located these ‘pure’ felicitous and innocuous feelings, which are like a “fresh summer breeze”.

And it is so clear to me now that one can only be happy if one is also harmless, because to inflict harm is to experience / ‘be’ harm. It reminds me of Richard’s descriptions of actual freedom, this one in particular has been coming to mind :

”One is pure innocence personified, for one is literally free from sin and guilt. One is untouched by evil; no malice exists anywhere in this body. One is utterly innocent. Innocence, that much abused word, can come to its full flowering and one is easily able to be freely ingenuous – noble in character – without any effort at all. The integrity of an actual freedom is so unlike the strictures of morality – whereupon the entity struggles in vain to resemble the purity of the actual – inasmuch as probity is bestowed gratuitously. One can live unequivocally, endowed with an actual gracefulness and dignity, in a magical wonderland. To thus live candidly, in arrant innocence, is a remarkable condition of excellence”.

That last bit is just… wow!

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Respondent: ‘(…) In my personal experience: having ‘feeling good’ as an aim – and then trying to feel good – sucks. But having an aim that does feel good, and then using ‘feeling good’ as a guide to whether or not one is on track with that aim, doesn’t suck, and makes sense’. (…)
Richard: […] It is pertinent to note, at this point, that the root cause of sorrow – and, hence, malice (e.g., the ‘basic resentment’ above) – is being forever locked-out of paradise. (…)
Not surprisingly, the word innocent (as in, ‘harmless’, ‘innoxious’; ‘sinless’, ‘guiltless’; ‘artless’, ‘naive’; ‘simple’, &c.) stems from the same root as the word nocent (as in, ‘harmful’, ‘hurtful’, ‘injurious’; ‘guilty’, ‘criminal’, &c.) does … namely: the Latin nocēns, nocent-, pres. part. of nocēre, ‘to harm’, ‘hurt’, ‘injure’, with the privative ‘in-‘ affixed as a prefix (i.e., in- + nocent). Viz.:
• innocent (in′ȱ-sënt), a. and n. [‹ ME. innocent, innosent, ‹ OF. (also F.) innocent = It. innocente, ‹ L. innocen(t-)s, harmless, blameless, upright, disinterested, ‹ in- priv. + nocen(t-)s, ppr. of nocere, harm, hurt: see nocent]. ~ (Century Dictionary and Cyclopaedia).
• nocent (nō′sënt), a. and n. [‹ L. nocen(t-)s, ppr. of nocere, harm, hurt, injure]. I. a. 1. hurtful; mischievous; injurious; doing hurt: as, ‘nocent qualities’. 2. guilty; criminal; nocently (adv.): in a nocent manner; hurtfully; injuriously [rare]. ~ (Century Dictionary and Cyclopaedia).
(Richard, List D, No. 4b, 4 July 2015
)

Kuba: This has been on my mind a lot, contemplating what actual innocence is referring to. And although ‘I’ cannot be actually innocent it has given me a fuller understanding of what harmlessness and happiness is all about. I think this had a big part in allowing me to locate ‘pure’ felicitous and innocuous feelings.
With the above in mind I have been sorting through those feelings (good and bad) which were hiding under the apparent “feeling good” umbrella, and yet they were “nocent”, both to ‘me’ and to others. And I found that only the genuine felicitous and innocuous feelings are free of this propensity to inflict hurt, in whichever direction.
So it’s quite interesting, I can’t put it into words very well yet, but it is the focus on harmlessness, whilst holding in mind what actual innocence means, which allowed me to sort through the various feelings and begin to let go of those which had the capacity to inflict hurt. And doing this I have located these ‘pure’ felicitous and innocuous feelings, which are like a “fresh summer breeze”.

And it is so clear to me now that one can only be happy if one is also harmless, because to inflict harm is to experience / ‘be’ harm. It reminds me of Richard’s descriptions of actual freedom, this one in particular has been coming to mind :

Richard: “One is pure innocence personified, for one is literally free from sin and guilt. One is untouched by evil; no malice exists anywhere in this body. One is utterly innocent. Innocence, that much abused word, can come to its full flowering and one is easily able to be freely ingenuous – noble in character – without any effort at all. The integrity of an actual freedom is so unlike the strictures of morality – whereupon the entity struggles in vain to resemble the purity of the actual – inasmuch as probity is bestowed gratuitously. One can live unequivocally, endowed with an actual gracefulness and dignity, in a magical wonderland. To thus live candidly, in arrant innocence, is a remarkable condition of excellence”. (Richard’s Journal, Article Nineteen, p. 141-2)

Kuba: That last bit is just… wow! (link)

Dear Kuba,

Ah, what great outcome of your persistent contemplation to get to the core of what innocence actually is. It seems you have come full circle to the time when you first wrote that what you dearly want is “to be innocence personified”

Kuba: In short what ‘I’ deeply and passionately care about is to be innocence personified. To live that which the PCE demonstrated and in doing so to offer (and demonstrate) a solid alternative to the “hypocrisy, the lack of equity, the ignorant irresponsibility and the harm that was being done by all”. This innocence is what I (and I am sure others on this forum) detect from you and if I had not experienced it first hand I would probably have believed it to be impossible. (Kuba5, 8 March 2025).

When you look back through your journal, many obstacles and objections had to be overcome and ‘secrets’ to be exposed to yourself until you developed sincerity to a fine art that would not allow you to leave any stone unturned or any dirt under the carpet. For instance, you had to experience, and then honestly admit to yourself that you harboured aggression and chip away at the much-prized assertiveness. You said in a previous post –

Kuba: I was just contemplating this and something interesting popped up. Which is that as ‘I’ become more sincere i.e. more in line with facticity, it is harder for self-centricity to be maintained. (…) But this action of warping the world around ‘me’ requires continued effort from ‘me’, it requires that ‘I’ continually disregard the facts and instead interpret every situation in a self-centric manner, that is the “story of ‘my’ life”. And although this is the instinctive norm of being ‘I’ find that it is painful, not only for ‘me’ but also for others. But I saw a chink in the armour of self-centricity, which is that it requires deception in the first place. (link)

This is very perceptive – perspicacious, penetratingly observant, to be precise. One can only really see that, acknowledge that, when one is no longer invested in a self-serving image-presenting deception, when facts and actuality are one’s guide and value.

And now, as you say here “it’s such a simple earthly joy of being here, I realise that this is actually all that I want.”

This persistent and utterly honest sincerity enabled you to now “have located these ‘pure’ felicitous and innocuous feelings, which are like a “fresh summer breeze”.”

And this is truly marvellous.

Cheers Vineeto

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So I have been looking at what is standing in the way of allowing naïveté fully - a different way of being, with the doer abeyant and the beer ascendant. I get inklings of what that is like, to live it, I do experience glimpses of what it is about. I tend to dip my toes in, have a very wonderful time for the duration and then find something (anything) that apparently warrants for my control to come back into the picture. Then some time down the line when I have had enough of carrying that burden I then reconsider again…

What I do see very clearly now, is that it is me that maintains all this, as in the choice is there, at any time, to step out from control, and it is my choice. Equally I am the one choosing each moment again to continue carrying my burden by remaining in control.

So that is a rather good thing. I see it clearly, I can indeed drop the burden, but for now I choose to maintain it.

So naturally I am looking at why I want to maintain it, and it’s weird because I know - to a degree - that ‘my’ control is a furphy and yet ‘I’ still wish to maintain it. It is like a gravitational pull for ‘me’ to remain in charge and yet whenever ‘I’ go into gay abandon it is incomparably better, it is what ‘I’ want. So there is how ‘I’ am programmed to ‘be’ and there is what ‘I’ actually want, and they are diametrically opposed.

What I can narrow it down to for now, why I wish to remain in control, is that by taking charge ‘I’ can take credit, by taking credit ‘I’ can distinguish ‘myself’, and thus ‘I’ am maintained as ‘someone’ in particular, this is essentially how ‘I’ maintain ‘myself’.

And I have written about this before a long time ago, perhaps it was never properly resolved, but it seems it is pride. It is pride that is standing in the way of allowing naivete fully and thus stepping out from control. Without pride (and humility) ‘I’ could not take credit, and if ‘I’ cannot take credit then just how do ‘I’ delineate ‘myself’?

Although pride is not the core culprit, it is more that pride is how ‘I’ maintain ‘myself’, but at core it is ‘my’ survival which is at stake, pride (and humility) seems to be merely the tools for the job!

It is clear why stepping out from control is the beginning of the actualism process, it’s taking out those last pins which are actively maintaining ‘me’ as an identity, and it is ‘me’ who willingly sets it in motion! Currently I can see those last pins still in place haha :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

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I experience things similarly where there are these temporary yet quite wondrous lengths of time, often a day or two, where pure intent is constantly palpable at the forefront, and everything is simply outstanding. Life is intrinsically wonderful, and even the perspective experience from there is a very perspicacious one where even the feeling of being self-centered in and of itself just seems utterly pointless. Like, what? There is no point of being self-centered.

Then, so far inevitably, I pull away from this and go back to my old ways for a bit, and then I find myself there again. There’s this pattern. It reminds me kind of what Craig was saying about riding on a bicycle and sometimes he was pedaling, sometimes he was coasting. This seems to be a common experience.

For me, I’m gonna avoid referring to it in terms of out from control virtual freedom or not, because it hasn’t been useful for me to think of things that way. But I do have the shape of the pattern firmly in mind, and it is always that, just, something far underneath my conscious reasoning, and that is what derails it. I’m starting to get a sense of this pattern, which I think is the first steps to ending it.

The very most recent one what I am pretty sure triggered the fall-off is I had been experiencing this way of being for a day or two, and then I slipped into a PCE. And right after it, there was just the thought of “wow, this isn’t that different (from that which I had been experiencing for a day or two)”. Like the difference between one and the other was not big, and it was not even… not big, and it was not even a big deal. Meaning that there’s a very small step before that self-immolation there. And this, I believe, is what drew me away from it.

So it’s really this deep-seated fear which comes up and… you know, derails. But only for temporarily because it’s just too appealing to not go back there again and again.

I do also suspect that whatever we write here, what we think it might be, it probably isn’t that or at least if we think we have seen it, it isn’t. What I mean to say is I think if we really did figure it out exactly (the reason) then we would already be on the other side of it and the choice would have been made.

So read this post of mine more as some kind of a musing rather than “ah it is exactly this and I know exactly what I’m gonna do now” :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:.

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Hi Claudiu,

Thanks for your report!

Yes I think the time of maps and recipes is over for us both by now haha.

I am seeing all this more clearly now, also I see where I have been going wrong in the past. The words "taking ‘myself’ into actuality” really summarise what ‘I’ had been doing. It’s all in the distinction between self-enhancing/maintaining and self-diminishing. Back around the time of the fake out from control ‘I’ kept ‘myself’ intact, do-er and all, and then tried to shove this package into some manufactured, new state of ‘being’, that is the wrong direction, this is all self-enhancing/maintaining. Just like actual freedom is a description of the condition which ensues when ‘I’ am eradicated, out from control is the description of the state which ensues when the do-er is abeyant. Meaning that both descriptions are referring to what happens when something is removed/out of the way, not when the already existing package is kept intact and taken into something more. And no wonder I was experiencing such intense resistance.

I can write this confidently now because I can experience what happens when for a period of time ‘I’ become somewhat diluted/irrelevant, then it is seen that ‘I’ have arrogated ‘myself’ over life with disastrous consequences, and then when this is seen all of a sudden everything is already in it’s rightful place. Then it is seen that it was ‘my’ absence/diminishment which was needed in order to reveal the perfection and purity which was already actual all this time.

And this is so much easier in that sense, because in the past ‘I’ took on the impossible task of trying to match actuality, as ‘I’ was trying to shove ‘myself’ in there, this took enormous and ongoing effort, in that sudorific sense, and anyways ‘I’ failed every-time. But actually none of that was ever needed.

So what I am experiencing is exactly that sense of ‘me’ initially doing ‘my’ normal order of operations, control and all, and then it’s like everything stops as ‘I’ realise that once again ‘I’ am simply arrogating ‘myself’ over life, that this is not needed, it’s this extra thing that does nobody any favours.

But then I have been thinking, the way Richard described ‘my’ self-immolation, that after the fact one (as a flesh and blood body) can know that ‘I’ never actually existed in the first place, and yet for ‘me’ it is a death which is as real as it gets. And it seems similar with this issue of control, in that for ‘me’ as the do-er ‘my’ control is very real, ‘I’ cannot abandon control by merely adopting a belief that says “‘I’ was never really in control”, this would be more like some buddhistic thing, it’s self deception. Rather it is only when ‘I’ have already allowed life to happen of its own accord that ‘I’ can then look back and see that none of that activity was ever needed, but the do-er cannot know this from behind ‘his’ throne, it is only known when the do-er has already got out of the way, willingly.

Although these descriptions are still only temporary excursions, this is not the actualism process having been set in motion.

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I was just walking around the river, having a successful time (as per my journal post of a couple hours back), and this exact consideration arose, but in reverse!

I was wondering, after having been considering how I was nostalgia*, and how in a PCE or Freedom, I wouldn’t be there and “what would take my place?”

It was a thought and feeling that “nothing “ would take my place that seemed somewhat sad to me, but almost immediately I caught the extreme irony of being in anyway worried that nothing would take my place, considering just what a mess I make! All the years of anger and sadness, malice and sorrow, frustration and despondency! How would “nothing “ be worse than that!!??

I genuinely laughed for a good five minutes, carefully avoiding appearing like a madman when a person passed the other way, but the proceeding to grin my face off with just how ridiculous it was to think and feel that “nothing “ was something somehow worse than me!

*nostalgia! I will see if I can sensibly write more about this in my journal.

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Kuba: I am seeing all this more clearly now, also I see where I have been going wrong in the past. The words “taking ‘myself’ into actuality” really summarise what ‘I’ had been doing. It’s all in the distinction between self-enhancing/ maintaining and self-diminishing. Back around the time of the fake out from control ‘I’ kept ‘myself’ intact, do-er and all, and then tried to shove this package into some manufactured, new state of ‘being’, that is the wrong direction, this is all self-enhancing/ maintaining. Just like actual freedom is a description of the condition which ensues when ‘I’ am eradicated, out from control is the description of the state which ensues when the do-er is abeyant. Meaning that both descriptions are referring to what happens when something is removed/out of the way, not when the already existing package is kept intact and taken into something more. And no wonder I was experiencing such intense resistance.
I can write this confidently now because I can experience what happens when for a period of time ‘I’ become somewhat diluted/irrelevant, then it is seen that ‘I’ have arrogated ‘myself’ over life with disastrous consequences, and then when this is seen all of a sudden everything is already in its rightful place. Then it is seen that it was ‘my’ absence/ diminishment which was needed in order to reveal the perfection and purity which was already actual all this time.
And this is so much easier in that sense, because in the past ‘I’ took on the impossible task of trying to match actuality, as ‘I’ was trying to shove ‘myself’ in there, this took enormous and ongoing effort, in that sudorific sense, and anyways ‘I’ failed every-time. But actually none of that was ever needed.
So what I am experiencing is exactly that sense of ‘me’ initially doing ‘my’ normal order of operations, control and all, and then it’s like everything stops as ‘I’ realise that once again ‘I’ am simply arrogating ‘myself’ over life, that this is not needed, it’s this extra thing that does nobody any favours.
But then I have been thinking, the way Richard described ‘my’ self-immolation, that after the fact one (as a flesh and blood body) can know that ‘I’ never actually existed in the first place, and yet for ‘me’ it is a death which is as real as it gets. And it seems similar with this issue of control, in that for ‘me’ as the do-er ‘my’ control is very real, ‘I’ cannot abandon control by merely adopting a belief that says “‘I’ was never really in control”, this would be more like some buddhistic thing, it’s self-deception. Rather it is only when ‘I’ have already allowed life to happen of its own accord that ‘I’ can then look back and see that none of that activity was ever needed, but the do-er cannot know this from behind ‘his’ throne, it is only known when the do-er has already got out of the way, willingly.
Although these descriptions are still only temporary excursions, this is not the actualism process having been set in motion. (link)

Hi Kuba,

This is such a wonderful summary of the whole process of actualism – I thoroughly enjoyed it.

It’s spelling it out that the whole method and process of actualism is about diminishing what is in the way of actuality becoming apparent, removing one ‘self-centric habit/ belief/ action of ‘me’ after another. In principle it is all so simple, the doing of it is another matter.

The reason why/ when putting this insight into practice is difficult is because each of us has/ had an in-built screaming baby, my ‘self’, made very real and convincing via feelings and passions as part of the animal inheritance, which obscures this very simply fact: when ‘I’ stop screaming (passionately feeling this or that and insisting that ‘I’ have to be somebody, somebody special) then there is peace and perfection.

Hence all the various actualism techniques to quiet down the screaming baby and slowly seduce it to stop flailing and thrashing about and start enjoying and appreciating being here, being alive and revel in the fact that everything is already perfect.

I think the two most potent techniques at any stage in the process are

1. being kind to yourself and
2. put everything on an ‘it-doesn’t-really-matter’ basis.

If you can sincerely and consistently apply both these techniques, the process of undoing your ‘self’ is increasingly enjoyable and immense cause for appreciation.

Besides, nothing really matters in the long run, because in the end ‘you’ will quit (either involuntary when your life-time is up, or voluntarily at any time ‘you’ are ready). You, Kuba, say above – “for ‘me’ it is a death which is as real as it gets”. It’s only a death as long as there is still resistance to see sense, complete 100% sense – then it’s a longed-for abdication, a willing disappearance into oblivion because (to quote Geoffrey) “no ‘weight’, no drama… just the only thing that made sense, the only sensible thing.” I know from ‘Vineeto’, first one needs to wrestle with, and/or soothe, and/or seduce, the screaming ‘me’ who doesn’t want to see sense.

It is already always perfect, perfection is already here. Stand still and ‘come’ here where you already are.

Give yourself permission to give up all responsibility and all struggle. As Richard says to ‘Vineeto’ in the Out-from-Control video: “I have no responsibility”.

Andrew might like this one too. (see link)

Cheers Vineeto

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This is a significant thing for me to consider, as I have never tried to do this.

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Hi Vineeto,

I have had this as a running thread each moment again for the past couple of days. There has been daring and there has been habituation. To use the metaphor of the cave again, it’s peeking out the cave where there is sun shining and the birds are singing, initially there is the daring needed - “can I step out?, is it safe?” etc, and then I step out anyways and there is that “fresh summer breeze” and all is well. And then some time down the line it is as if I have been teleported back to the cave, I notice something missing, but then I remember that the exit is right in front of me and that I can once more step out - that’s the habituation.

It’s been quite amusing how this has been playing out in practice too. For example the other day I noticed the kitchen and living room were a bit of a mess, and I tend to like to keep the house tidy. At that time I could not distinguish if this was a preference or a passionate drive. But I could tell that I felt it as a responsibility and something that ‘I’ had to ‘do’ in that “carrying the burden” way. The initial response when considering a different course of action was of course jumping to it’s opposite, that if ‘I’ don’t ‘do’ it then ‘I’ will end up living in squalor etc But then I thought well that is a risk I am willing to take! :laughing: And sure enough about 30minutes later after I was done cooking for me and Sonya I noticed that the kitchen was clean, of course I was the one that did the cleaning but the ‘doer’ had no part, it took no effort.

Also something changed recently and I can only pin point it to having now left behind whatever remnants of the spiritual viewpoint. Even the words that you write to me, they make sense like never before, in a matter of fact, down to earth way. And indeed I was up until recently viewing actualism and actual freedom through a spiritual lens. I am pretty surprised to write this, because for years I thought that was all done and dusted! And yet I still saw actual freedom as another state of ‘being’, I no longer do and I think this is the core reason for the change. Which also means that my compass is now oriented towards the correct direction, which is here on earth.

And all this is kind of weird, in a mind-boggling way. It reminds me of what Richard wrote that once actually free he saw that he had been here all this time simply having a ball. I can kind of see this, that on one hand ‘I’ am carrying ‘my’ burden and yet there is everything already happening of it’s own accord in actuality… Also those words “cause and effect was left behind in the land of lament”, that keeps coming up too when I am having these experiences.

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Would you describe a bit more about the difference between “doer” and, if I remember correctly, there’s a term called “beer”? Is the “doer” the feeling of wanting things to change, and the “beer” the feeling of being, or what does it mean to you when you say doer/beer?

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Not sure what went wrong, but that was supposed to be a quote by Kuba :slight_smile:

Hi John,

I am not sure how well I can describe the difference between the ‘do-er’ and ‘be-er’ but Hunterad’s post from yesterday does quite a good job of describing the MO of the ‘do-er’ :

So the ‘do-er’ is the little agent ‘inside’ with ‘his’ various sophisticated plans and schemes, the one apparently in charge of life, the one carrying the burden of “keeping it all together” etc. What the ‘do-er’ eventually realises is that like Hunterad described - ‘he’ is just spinning around in circles and it is all for nought.

Then with sufficient abandon the ‘do-er’ can take a risk and instead of remaining in control ‘he’ can step back and allow life to happen of it’s own accord and thus make way for the naive ‘be-er’ to Iive without the effort and without the control. This is as far as I have got experientially :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

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Kuba: Hi Vineeto,

Vineeto: Give yourself permission to give up all responsibility and all struggle. As Richard says to ‘Vineeto’ in the Out-from-Control video: “I have no responsibility”.

Kuba: I have had this as a running thread each moment again for the past couple of days. There has been daring and there has been habituation. To use the metaphor of the cave again, it’s peeking out the cave where there is sun shining and the birds are singing, initially there is the daring needed – “can I step out?, is it safe?” etc, and then I step out anyways and there is that “fresh summer breeze” and all is well. And then some time down the line it is as if I have been teleported back to the cave, I notice something missing, but then I remember that the exit is right in front of me and that I can once more step out – that’s the habituation.
It’s been quite amusing how this has been playing out in practice too. For example the other day I noticed the kitchen and living room were a bit of a mess, and I tend to like to keep the house tidy. At that time I could not distinguish if this was a preference or a passionate drive. But I could tell that I felt it as a responsibility and something that ‘I’ had to ‘do’ in that “carrying the burden” way. The initial response when considering a different course of action was of course jumping to its opposite, that if ‘I’ don’t ‘do’ it then ‘I’ will end up living in squalor etc. But then I thought well that is a risk I am willing to take! And sure enough about 30-minutes later after I was done cooking for me and Sonya I noticed that the kitchen was clean, of course I was the one that did the cleaning but the ‘doer’ had no part, it took no effort.

Hi Kuba,

That is indeed amusing – you forgot your own inner argument about preference and responsibility concepts on one side and your ‘distaste’ for cleaning up on the other. And voilà, things got done in the most pleasant way. It’s actually fun to clean up when ‘I’ don’t run the show. Remember Richard’s story about cleaning dishes?

Richard: “Maybe an example will provide the clue: back in 1981, in the early days of starting on the wide and wondrous path to an actual freedom from the human condition, I was standing in the kitchen of my ex-farmhouse, situated on a couple of acres of land in a remote countryside location, washing the breakfast dishes; I was not interested in washing the dishes/ I had never been interested in washing the dishes; I did not like washing the dishes/ I had never liked washing the dishes; washing the dishes was an uninteresting chore, an unlikeable task, that just had to be done (otherwise I would not be doing it/ would never had done it/ would never do it) … and all the while the early-morning sun was streaming in through the large glass windows, in the eastern wall to my front, beckoning me, enticing me to hurry-up and get the uninteresting and unlikeable job over and done with so that I could scamper outside and get stuck into doing the interesting things I really liked doing/ wanted to do.
Howsoever, *the tool for facilitating the actualism method* – asking oneself, each moment again, how one is experiencing this moment of being alive (the only moment one is ever alive) – had by now become a non-verbal approach to life, a wordless attitude towards being alive, and all-of-a-sudden, whilst standing there with my hands in the sink being anywhere but here, at anytime but now, *it was a delight and a joy to be doing exactly what it was I was already doing anyway* … standing in the golden sunlight with hands immersed in delicious, tingling-to-the-touch, hot soapy water.
I find myself looking at what the hands are feeling (the hot soapy water) and become aware I have never seen hot soapy water before – have never really seen hot soapy water before – and become fascinated with *the actuality of what is happening*: it is as if the hands know what to do without any input from me; they are reaching for a plate, they are applying the scourer appropriately, they are turning the plate over, they are applying the scourer appropriately, they are lifting the cleaned plate out of the washing sink; they are dipping it into the rinsing sink; they are placing it in the rack to drip … and all this while they are *feeling the delicious tingling sensation of hot soapy water* as it strips-away the grease and other detritus …”. (Richard, AF List, No. 71, 15 Jul 2004).

Kuba: Also something changed recently and I can only pinpoint it to having now left behind whatever remnants of the spiritual viewpoint. Even the words that you write to me, they make sense like never before, in a matter of fact, down to earth way. And indeed I was up until recently viewing actualism and actual freedom through a spiritual lens. I am pretty surprised to write this, because for years I thought that was all done and dusted! And yet I still saw actual freedom as another state of ‘being’, I no longer do and I think this is the core reason for the change. Which also means that my compass is now oriented towards the correct direction, which is here on earth.

This is a significant discovery and I am pleased reading it put it this way – “I still saw actual freedom as another state of ‘being’”. It is significant for every one who puts in hard work to achieve a higher ranking in their ‘actualism’, works hard to improve one’s ‘self’ or in some other way, as you put it before (link), aims to import one’s ‘self’ into the actual world.

Again, it’s not surprising that it happens because the only alternatives so far where materialism (work hard for material gain and prestige) and spiritualism (work hard for a higher state of ‘being’, and prestige). When you contemplate that the very nature of ‘me’ is an imaginary contingent entity – there is nothing else ‘I’ can do but try to stay in existence with as many ‘flimsy’ arguments as long as possible. ‘Vineeto’ called them “furphies”, [false narratives], and ‘she’ was always pleased when ‘she’ had exposed another one of those from the long line of self-deceit.

To fully comprehend what the phrase “enjoying and appreciating being alive” means – as Vineeto once reported to Richard –

Richard: Speaking in regards to the effects any and all attempts to fit this totally new paradigm into ‘her’ existing mindset were having, ‘she’ explained the process as being … (1.) as if ‘her’ brain was being turned upside-down … and how (2.) ‘she’ was having to relearn how to think all over again. (Richard, List D, Alan, 29 Feb 2016).

Kuba: And all this is kind of weird, in a mind-boggling way. It reminds me of what Richard wrote that once actually free he saw that he had been here all this time simply having a ball. I can kind of see this, that on one hand ‘I’ am carrying ‘my’ burden and yet there is everything already happening of its own accord in actuality… Also those words “cause and effect was left behind in the land of lament”, that keeps coming up too when I am having these experiences. (link)

I think you inadvertently slipped into Zen spirituality and/or Quantum theory – cause and effect is operating perfectly here in the actual world. What disappears is the imaginary ‘logic’ of the spiritual imaginary realm and the supposed ‘logic’ of Quantum theory of the equally imaginary realm, together with the various narratives/ scams spawned from that.

Respondent: [Re: The Goose In The Bottle]. And the bottle does not simply vanish when nothing is done.
Richard: The bottle does not vanish whether one does something or whether one does not do something. This is contrary to the normal notion of cause and effect … which is why it is used by the metaphysically inclined people. They wish to break the hold that thought has on one … they posit that ‘I’ am a product of thought and ‘I’ create a non-existent bottle to be trapped in … because an ‘I’ is trapped by its very nature. When faced with an intellectually impossible paradox, they say that thought (their ‘I’ as ego) gives up the ghost and – hey presto! – the goose is out of the bottle by virtue of the fact that the bottle did not exist in the first place. It is a matter of seeing that one is already free and one had to but realise this. Mr. H. W. L. Poonja of India was of the same opinion … which is why he has been able to churn out several ‘spiritually awakened beings’ who fondly imagine that they have ‘got it’. They now know that there never was a bottle to break or vanish or get out of all along. (I wonder where Respondent No. 22 is in all this … this stuff should be grist for his mill.) It is all rather pathetic … but there they go with their much-revered wisdom of the ages, eh? Perhaps it is more a conundrum than a paradox … I would ask: Who is the gullible goose that precipitously feels they are now out?
That is because this question gets one closer to the root cause of all human suffering … Zen’s much-prized ‘Original Face’. (Richard, List B, No. 20b, 18 Jul 1998a)

-

Richard: Mr. Werner Heisenberg, of the uncertainty principle fame, dispensed with the main plank of science – causality (cause and effect) – altogether:
• ‘The law of causality is no longer applied in quantum theory’. (page 88, ‘Physics and Philosophy, the Revolution in Modern Science’, by Werner Heisenberg; ©1966 Harper and Row, New York).
Now, quantum theory may be a lot of things – a mathematical model useful for predicting certain events for instance – but, being sans causality, science it surely ain’t. (Richard, Abditorium, Albert Einstein)

-

Respondent: As for giving a hint to the answer of that. I did not mean Karma with [the yoke of causation] my guess is … Yes … but then again I don’t know.
Richard: If you did not mean ‘karma’ then perhaps your query would have been better served if you had simply asked whether physical cause and effect operates here in this actual world.
Which, of course, it does. (Richard, AF List, No. 18b, 31 Jul 2002).

Cheers Vineeto

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Hi Vineeto,

This is the quote I was referring to (link) :

Richard Yes, that is when that momentum is rolling. You are not setting the pace any more. (…). One feels alive, vital, dynamic. Things happen. One can no longer distinguish between me doing it and it happening to me. They happen simultaneously … cause and effect are left behind in the Land of Lament. It is absolutely thrilling.

And I was thinking about this yesterday, and it seems it is to do with time as it happens in actuality, in that all events only take place now. So as the ‘do-er’ “cause and effect” happens across the present-future continuum. In that as the ‘do-er’ ‘I’ set a plan in motion which will apparently ensure an outcome in the future. Like with the dishes, ‘I’ decide ‘I’ will ‘do’ it in the present and then ‘I’ have a distance to cross until the resolution in the future - that is the ‘weight’ of the burden. And yet when ‘I’ as the ‘do-er’ step aside ‘I’ notice that it all happens now, there is no distance to cross hence there is no burden to carry.

Of course effects are being caused by actions otherwise nothing would ever happen haha but it’s more that there is no distance between now and then to travel. Does that make any more sense without Zen spirituality / quantum theory?

Essentially it is that for the ‘do-er’ the cause is what ‘I’ ‘do’ in the present and the effect is what ‘I’ hope for in the future. And in fact this feature is what I have been the most fascinated about, that it all happens now and so ‘I’ am not needed to be ‘doing’ life, it is already happening. Perhaps it is correct to say that in actuality both cause and effect happen now, whereas in reality there is a ‘lag’, this ‘lag’ is the burden that ‘I’ carry as the ‘do-er’, it takes effort for ‘me’ to continually cross that distance.

The way I have been experiencing it today is rather fascinating, in that as soon as ‘I’ begin to engage in that - let’s say “cause then effect” manner, there is the experience of things already happening, and so that whole mechanism of ‘me’ moving from ‘here’ to ‘there’ becomes still born. This is like the end of ‘my’ control, as ‘my’ control has no relevance where this moment is already happening. It’s the experience of shifting from existing out of time to being locked securely in time. And it is indeed the case that cause and effect happen simultaneously in actuality, it cannot be any other way! My hands are causing these words to be typed out but there is no separation between the cause happening (fingers doing the typing) and the event taking place (the words being typed out), it all happens now. Whereas in reality it all happens in separate ‘periods’ of time.

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Concurrent with all the stuff I wrote about above (which got rather convoluted in the end) I have been having such a superb time being here. I woke up today with that “pressure in the nape of the neck” thing and usually I know that something interesting is imminent when this happens. I haven’t done anything special today, just running various errands etc But constantly I have been amazed at the mirificence all-around. The weather has changed recently here in the UK too and I find the sun and the longer days have done their part in inviting me to come out and play. It’s so spectacular when it is like this, it’s the world becoming a sparkling jewel again, I have to specifically focus to find some dirt which still exists of ‘me’, otherwise all is clean and vibrant. When I parked up at the shops and got out the car some 30 minutes ago, it all hit me at once haha! In particular at that moment it was all this wonderful stuff being apperceived with stillness as the backdrop to it all, spectacular!

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Kuba: Hi Vineeto,

Kuba: And all this is kind of weird, in a mind-boggling way. It reminds me of what Richard wrote that once actually free he saw that he had been here all this time simply having a ball. I can kind of see this, that on one hand ‘I’ am carrying ‘my’ burden and yet there is everything already happening of its own accord in actuality… Also those words “cause and effect was left behind in the land of lament”, that keeps coming up too when I am having these experiences. (link)

Vineeto: I think you inadvertently slipped into Zen spirituality and/or Quantum theory – cause and effect is operating perfectly here in the actual world. What disappears is the imaginary ‘logic’ of the spiritual imaginary realm and the supposed ‘logic’ of Quantum theory of the equally imaginary realm, together with the various narratives/ scams spawned from that.

Kuba: This is the quote I was referring to (link):

Richard Yes, that is when that momentum is rolling. You are not setting the pace any more. (…). One feels alive, vital, dynamic. Things happen. One can no longer distinguish between me doing it and it happening to me. They happen simultaneously … cause and effect are left behind in the Land of Lament. It is absolutely thrilling.

Kuba: And I was thinking about this yesterday, and it seems it is to do with time as it happens in actuality, in that all events only take place now. So as the ‘do-er’ “cause and effect” happens across the present-future continuum. In that as the ‘do-er’ ‘I’ set a plan in motion which will apparently ensure an outcome in the future. Like with the dishes, ‘I’ decide ‘I’ will ‘do’ it in the present and then ‘I’ have a distance to cross until the resolution in the future - that is the ‘weight’ of the burden. And yet when ‘I’ as the ‘do-er’ step aside ‘I’ notice that it all happens now, there is no distance to cross hence there is no burden to carry.
Of course effects are being caused by actions otherwise nothing would ever happen haha but it’s more that there is no distance between now and then to travel. Does that make any more sense without Zen spirituality / quantum theory?
Essentially it is that for the ‘do-er’ the cause is what ‘I’ ‘do’ in the present and the effect is what ‘I’ hope for in the future. And in fact this feature is what I have been the most fascinated about, that it all happens now and so ‘I’ am not needed to be ‘doing’ life, it is already happening. Perhaps it is correct to say that in actuality both cause and effect happen now, whereas in reality there is a ‘lag’, this ‘lag’ is the burden that ‘I’ carry as the ‘do-er’, it takes effort for ‘me’ to continually cross that distance.
The way I have been experiencing it today is rather fascinating, in that as soon as ‘I’ begin to engage in that - let’s say “cause then effect” manner, there is the experience of things already happening, and so that whole mechanism of ‘me’ moving from ‘here’ to ‘there’ becomes still born. This is like the end of ‘my’ control, as ‘my’ control has no relevance where this moment is already happening. It’s the experience of shifting from existing out of time to being locked securely in time. And it is indeed the case that cause and effect happen simultaneously in actuality, it cannot be any other way! My hands are causing these words to be typed out but there is no separation between the cause happening (fingers doing the typing) and the event taking place (the words being typed out), it all happens now. Whereas in reality it all happens in separate ‘periods’ of time. (link)

Hi Kuba,

Thank you for putting me right. I couldn’t find that quote yesterday. In fact, the original text is only in two places – one is from the Audio-taped Dialogues where the above quote came from and another, which is a bit longer and quite informative as well.

Richard: Becoming free of the human condition is a result of making a curious decision to ‘do it’ – whatever it takes – and once one sets it all in motion a momentum takes over where one realises one has embarked already … and once one has that impetus going one cannot ‘un-set’ the pace. An alacrity takes over and one finds that one has already been doing it and one has no choice in the matter (fascination is almost like ‘I am not doing this – this is happening to me’). This means one is already committed to finding out – it is not that one makes a commitment as one can always break a commitment after a lot of soul-searching – and this commitment one cannot break. There is no pulling back – which is why most people do not want to start – because once one has started one cannot stop. It is a one-way trip … that is the thrilling part of it. With application and diligence, born out of pure intent, it will happen … one cannot help but become fascinated, for this is the predicament that humankind has been agonising over for aeons. Any reluctance to become fascinated is because of the ‘no turning back’ aspect. After fascination comes obsession wherein you cannot leave it alone any more – or rather it does not leave you alone – and that is when that tempo picks you up – an eagerness grips you – and you feel alive, vital, dynamic. Things happen of a serendipitous nature. One can no longer distinguish between me doing it and it happening to me. They happen simultaneously – cause and effect are left behind in the Land of Lament – and it is absolutely thrilling. Then one is fully doing this business of being alive – doing it here on this earth in this lifetime as this body – and it is all happening now. This moment is happening and I am doing it and the doing is happening of itself and I am the experiencing of the happening. Then one is in this propitious state of being able to say: ‘I am the doing of what is happening’.
And this is wonderful. (Richard, AF List, No. 7, 18 Feb 1999).

You are correct, the ‘cause and effect’ are left behind because things happen simultaneously and spontaneously – which, of course, does not mean that the rules of physics are put out of action. It is always only now, this moment, no time-lapse where to insert any affective valuation or hesitation or excitement to slow down or speed up, no control.

It’s like your story with the kitchen which was tidied without you having emotionally interfered with by objecting or lamenting. It just happened and it was perfect.

And you can always polish the report of what happened in hindsight if you find it “rather convoluted in the end”. (link)

What a wonderful way of being alive.

So yes, it’s a perfect quote.

Cheers Vineeto

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This stood out to me yesterday and has been on my mind since. Indeed Peter was correct when he named his journal, freedom is when there is nothing left to lose ie when ‘I’ have given up all of ‘me’ so that there is nothing left to protect or fight for. Waking up today this flavour that I experienced yesterday is still present, this quote from Geoffrey summarises it well :

Geoffrey: Feeling like a child (more precisely: naive) is different than acting like a child obviously.
Imagine Richard going to the supermarket and being completely amazed at the profusion of colors and shapes, at the potentiality of a cornucopia of delicious experiences, walking around the supermarket like a child looks at a butterfly hanging on a flower, on a sunny afternoon that seems to never end…

That last bit is particularly wonderful to me, it’s this sense of being ‘lost’ in this eternal moment. ‘Lost’ is a unusual word to use in the context I mean but it is not negative, it’s where ‘my’ frames of reference between ‘here’ and ‘there’, ‘now’ and ‘then’ no longer apply, it’s a very wonderful thing to be ‘lost’ in this manner.

So the wide and wondrous path is an incremental freedom, of progressively having less and less to lose until ‘I’ am enticed enough to give up all of ‘me’. That is what caught my attention when contemplating Peter’s words, that indeed freedom is having nothing left to lose, which means that the way to an actual freedom is by ‘my’ extinction, that is the way.

It is quite a peculiar situation, to be looking at the door marked “extinction” and to be enticed to walk towards it, that this is what ‘I’ want. It’s been a very potent question to continually ask myself, what do ‘I’ still have left to loose? Whilst holding in mind the fact that it is precisely that which ‘I’ have to loose which is the reason for suffering.

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There is something that I am not sure about… There are times when I am contemplating the above and being drawn towards it with the entirety of ‘my’ being. And then there is something like a very strong passionate response, not in a sorrowful or fearful way, it’s more that ‘I’ realise that this is what ‘I’ want, what ‘I’ have dedicated ‘my’ life to, what ‘I’ have been aiming for for all these years - to enable that which I have seen, for everybody, to set things right etc. Let’s say it is a powerful passionate “call to action”.

The thing is I have experienced this before and it would usually rise to a crescendo and then afterwards the forward motion would stop. And so what I am not sure is if this passionate “call to action” could be a diversion? That ‘I’ had ‘my’ emotional experience, which it felt meaningful and yet ‘I’ am still here after-all. Or whether this powerful passionate energy is indeed what is needed for altruism to be activated.

It seems a diversion, it’s like a little melodrama to distract from doing that which makes sense, which is to allow for ‘me’ to disappear. That melodrama appears to be there to ‘shift some weight’ and yet it keeps ‘me’ in place. And anyways what weight is there to ‘me’ disappearing into oblivion? Certainly there is no weight shifted when ‘I’ go into abeyance in a PCE. It seems that ‘me’ disappearing for good must be equally light as a feather…

In fact this seems certain, that melodrama would have it that ‘I’ do it, that ‘I’ end ‘myself’, and so ‘I’ remain. For ‘me’ to allow ‘myself’ to disappear takes no ‘shifting weight’, it takes for ‘me’ to allow it to happen.

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Do you believe this?