Vineeto: First up, I would suggest that instead of using the psychiatric definition “OCD” (which only categorizes/ defines you as having a mental disorder), naming what you experience ‘symptoms of extreme stress’. This usually happens when the underlying feeling of stress and anxiety is not allowed to be experienced as is (as in ‘I’ am my feelings and my feelings are ‘me’). If you do that you can instantly tell what is missing and do something about it via addressing the issue directly – when you are back to feeling good.
Chrono: Hi Vineeto,
Yes that makes sense to re-label it. I’ve been calling it that as the symptoms very much fit the definition. Obsessively focused on one thing and trying to compulsively fix it (while holding onto the same feeling) is an instinctual manoeuvre. But my approach to it has changed. I noticed that I just need to let the feeling subside (seeing that there’s nothing that I have to really do) and feel good and that quells the majority of the urgency. I saw this when I realized that my fundamental nature is not only that ‘I am suffering and suffering is me’ but also that ‘my’ whole foundational drive is to survive. Thus I am heavily invested in suffering. It makes sense that feeling good then is a self-less inclination.
Hi Chrono,
Ah, this sounds like a break-through realisation into the whole business of being “heavily invested in suffering”. Now that you have seen that you can pay attention to every instant when that habitual behaviour resurfaces and attentiveness will take care of the rest –
Richard: In attentiveness, there is an unbiased observing of the constant showing-up of the ‘reality’ within and is examining the feelings arising one after the other … and such attentiveness is the ending of its grip. Please note that last point: in attentiveness, there is an observance of the ‘reality’ within, and such attention is the end of its embrace … finish.
Here lies apperception. (Richard, Attentiveness, Sensuousness, Apperceptiveness).
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Vineeto: You were hot on the trail and have also identified the issue further, originally wanting to keep the cake and eat it too, i.e. keeping love/ possession without the detrimental side-effects (“the Good/ Bad dichotomy”). Perhaps this has finally been fully recognized and has expired? Either way it is a really excellent outcome and your persistent probing showed results. When you examine your resentment, make sure that not a smidgen of wanting to hold onto the bitter-sweet feeling love remains, otherwise your resentment is sourced in the fact (which you have already seen) that you can’t have one without the other.
Chrono: Yes I am now on the lookout for any good feelings that I may be wanting or holding onto if I should feel bad. What’s interesting is how rather continuous it is. Times when I may not have been aware before or considered moments of feeling ‘normal’ are actually of feeling bad. And any feelings of bitter-sweetness are an indication that a cherished dream is on the line. Seeing how I cannot have the good without the bad has made a big dent in the way I approach it. I previously did resent that I could not “keep the cake and eat it too” although I hadn’t quite caught on what was happening. I think this highlights a huge belief in Humanity that it is somehow possible. Now it’s a matter of becoming aware of these feelings and just asking if I want to hold onto a particular dream or attitude if it meant that I would also have to keep the bad parts of it.
It takes a while to become aware that both ‘good’ and bad feelings are two sides of the same coin. With practice, your attentiveness gets finer and more precise, and one becomes aware of one belief after another. It’s fun, isn’t it.
Chrono: I don’t resent that I can’t have the one without the other but I do feel a sense of being inconsiderate. But I had some insight into that this past week as well. I had a big argument with my partner regarding my usage of the term ‘introvert’ with her. I had told my friend that she is an ‘introvert’. I did not realize that this was something that bothered her a lot and that she had some insecurities around it. It seemed like not a big deal at all but to her it was. During the argument I was quite taken aback and I insisted that perhaps she is looking at it or approaching it in an improper way. This was basically the whole argument of ‘it’s not what you said but how you said it’. And it was when I was going to sleep I realized that it’s not a matter of if something made sense or not. It’s because I held onto this ideal of being ‘logical’ that I insisted and defended my way of seeing it. It was self-centered of me to disregard her feelings regarding this issue whether it made sense or not. I realize that being ‘logical’ is some big part of being a ‘man’. A ‘man’ is logical and a ‘woman’ is illogical (or so it goes). But being logical or illogical does not bring about peace and harmony. I could only be considerate by dropping more of these parts of ‘me’. She is free to be however she wants to be or feel.
I remember ‘Vineeto’ at first being surprised to learn that Richard said he was not a fan of logic or being logical. ‘Vineeto’ had considered logic to be ‘her’ thinking process (when ‘she’ wasn’t being emotional) – if this, then that. However, the more ‘she’ paid attention when applying common sense, ‘she’ came to see that common sense is much more than following the fixed rules of logic but rather choosing what is sensible. ‘I’, the identity, can easily play tricks with logic, it being a rigid system, but with attentiveness one becomes aware of the underlying feelings and thus comes to one’s senses (common sense – down-to-earth facts and actuality – included).
Chrono: I also noticed another ideal of being ‘open’ in the relationship that I held onto. It seemed nice on the surface, however it seemed to be a license to be ‘myself’ and ultimately disregard the other. I am left wondering what is there in relationship without all this? There’s a strange feeling of blandness remaining. And again I see that thinking itself is circumscribed by it being either ‘good’ or bad’. If it’s not ‘good’ then I automatically I assume that it’s ‘bad’. Perhaps the question is, what is the third alternative?
Indeed, some people call “being ‘open’” being honest and, as you discovered, use it as a license to rudely tell people how the feel – which unchecked is certainly not harmless.
As I said to Sonya the other day –
Vineeto: What you ideally want to do it change the way you are relating from a dependant, love-based possessive-demanding relating to a more naïve intimacy-based relating – from fellow human being to fellow human being, who both basically share the same aim – to live together in peace and harmony, and revel in the delights of enjoying each other’s company and shared intimacy. (Actualvineeto, Sonya2, 8 Feb 2026).
Have you noticed that whenever you consider some attitude or ‘truth’ or belief no longer worthwhile holding onto, you instantly present yourself with the opposite as negative as possible to prevent ‘you’ from straying off the ‘straight and narrow’ traditional path.
There is of course nothing bland at all about having less and less ‘good’ and bad feelings – being happy and harmless are feelings of the, at times exuberant and vibrant, felicitous variety.
Richard: What the wide and wondrous path to an actual freedom is on about is a virtual freedom wherein the ‘good’ feelings – the affectionate and desirable emotions and passions (those that are loving and trusting) are minimised along with the ‘bad’ feelings – the hostile and invidious emotions and passions (those that are hateful and fearful) – so that one is free to feel well, feel happy and feel perfect for 99% of the time. If one minimises the ‘good’ and ‘bad’ feelings and activates the felicitous/ innocuous feelings – happiness, delight, appreciation, joie de vivre/ bonhomie, friendliness, amiability and so on – in conjunction with sensuousness – then the ensuing sense of amazement, marvel and wonder can result in apperceptiveness. (Richard, List B, No. 19e, 26 Dec 2000).
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Chrono: As I walked along with those words, I experienced it in myself. Any dreaming or desiring to being away in some other place and some other time is an expression of the resentment of being alive. The reason that the good/ bad feelings are being supported is because those dreams sit atop this foundation of resentment. I can see it very clearly now. (…)
Vineeto: This is excellent. You will see how radically your life changes as you incrementally recognize each dream and dismantle the underlying resentment that things are not as ‘I’ want them to be. I guess you already read Kuba’s report on his experiential discovery of the all-encompassing resentment (link). When one sets one’s priority to imitate the actual, resentment has no place to hide in the shadows. And what a marvellous trade is that – the result is way beyond your wildest dreams.
Chrono: I am just now reading it in full and I can relate to it. However what stands in my way at the moment I think is this indignation at what people are doing. Like they are crazy and I am not haha. It’s strange that I still have this belief. Rather embarrassing almost. I am seeing as I am writing this, it’s the same thing that I was doing with my partner but now projected onto the rest of the world. It’s ‘illogical’. ‘If only they would do this, if only they would think like this’. It’s rather funny because sometimes I feel myself “well-adjusted” and other times feel that I am more crazy than the norm. And I see a core again that it’s self-centered. At the core is the feeling of being special somehow. This must be the identity that everyone feels themself to be as well. I feel a reluctance and resistance to seeing this entirely for some reason. That it means that I have to face the Human Condition directly. It feels like I am stepping into the “slums”. I’m not sure how to describe it. (link)
Ha, Kuba arrived at a similar indignation, describing it in his last post (link). I understand it well from ‘Vineeto’s experience about the injustice and unfairness happening in the world. However, ‘she’ never found it unjust that ‘she’ had unilaterally decided to rectify this in ‘herself’, after all ‘she’ was one of the fortunate few who knew about the solution which demonstrably worked.
This attitude is indeed born of ‘self’-centredness and ‘me’ defending ‘my’ very existence, as you might feel yourself to be the only one doing something about the mess ‘you’ are and yet know yourself to operate outside the norm of the human condition in many areas. That’s the pioneer’s role and you can rather be appreciative to have the opportunity and the courage to do so.
I also recommend reading Richard’s Selected Correspondence on Peasant Mentality (2) as you might find a few clues about how you feel and why. And when you think you are “more crazy than the norm” remember that the human condition itself is weird, and getting out of it does at times feel weird and crazy. The other correspondence I can recommend is one about not taking offence, explained in detail (Richard, List D, Rick, 21 Jan 2016). Mastering this technique will hold you in good stead in any situation in life you described above.
Cheers Vineeto