Claudiu's Journal

Journals
464

Vineeto to Claudiu: Is the “feeling driven” a close cousin to the “‘gung-ho yeah!!’ self” – a diversion from that funny feeling in the belly when anxiousness sets in? If so, I can recommend to stay with that ‘funny feeling’ as long as you dare, without fighting it or expressing it as being driven (both options give the anxiousness extra energy), and experiment a bit. This will reduce the intensity and ‘whoosh’, you are back to feeling good.

Kuba: Hi Vineeto,
Hehe this is a cool way of describing ‘my’ anxiety – “a funny feeling in the belly when anxiousness sets in”, doesn’t sound so serious when you put it this way
So yes this is essentially what happens for me too, in fact I could broadly break it down into 3 categories :

Hi Kuba,

It’s fun isn’t it? The only thing which spoils the fun is when you think something is wrong.

Kuba: 1 - “things are happening” – this is where there isn’t any of that kind of feeling, ‘I’ am ‘being’ supremely naive and it seems that ‘I’ am well on route to meeting ‘my’ destiny.
2 - “Funny feeling in the belly” – This is where there is still this dynamic aspect all around but also this anxiousness which is as if wanting to halt what is going on.
3 - “towards ‘normality’” – This is where ‘I’ have allowed the anxiousness to do its thing and now ‘I’ have reverted back to some kind of ‘normality’ in order to ease the pressure.
So no 3 I am spending very little time in these days, it is mostly either no 1 which when it is happening it seems nothing else is needed but to remain exactly in that place. And then no 2 which still by all means is better than no 3 and yet there is this kind of ‘friction’ that is halting things.

Sounds like you are exactly experiencing what Richard described in the quote I just posted to Claudiu. Here is a similar one from his Journal –

Richard: An actual freedom happens of itself only when one is fully ready, and not before. One has to become acclimatised to benignity, benevolence and blitheness, because the purity of the actual is so powerful that it would “blow the fuses” if one was to venture into this territory ill-prepared. To precipitously apprehend the vast stillness of infinitude would be too much, too fast, too soon … one could go mad with the super-abundance of pleasure that pours forth. The in-built tendency of the universe to achieve the optimum knows best as to when the time is right. (Richard’s Journal, p. 169).

So, when No. 2 or No. 3 happens you don’t repress and don’t express, i.e. don’t feed the feeling, acknowledge that you are the feeling and get back to No. 1. That’s the natural dynamic of the vortex of swirling feelings, until you are ready to let pure intent take over completely and the vortex that is ‘you’ will stop of its own accord by the sheer immanence of pure intent, whichever way you experience it (extraordinary non-affective sweetness/ vast tenderness/ an experience of closeness or sweet intimacy/ overarching benignity/ ubiquitous stillness/ encouraging one to take the decision to allow the last, final and irrevocable step to happen).

Geoffrey: I realised that I would indeed gladly die right now, gladly give away all I am, all I ever was, all I’ve done and felt since I was born, for peace-on-earth to be apparent (not even for me but) for everybody. For things to be as they are. And that it would be of no importance at all. No ‘weight’, no drama… just the only thing that made sense, the only sensible thing.
I was walking on a dirt path, in the shadows of the trees, a few hundred meters from home, with a big smile on my face, when everything stopped.
I saw the vortex that is ‘me’ drastically slow down, as it could not move in the overarching stillness, and evaporate, as it had no substance but movement.
Then there was nothing left. And nothing missing. (Geoffrey, Becoming Free Report)

Kuba: Now when I am in no 1 it is like “standing still and watching the dust settle all around” is happening automatically, it is quite incredible because in that place it is like realisations are flying right, left and centre, like ‘I’ am being rapidly unravelled. Then when in no2 it seems like “things are no longer happening”, ‘I’ have halted ‘my’ undoing. This is when I would try to ‘go somewhere’ in that linear fashion and this is where a devolution into no 3 can take place, back to ‘normal’, to the ‘doer’ etc.

All you need is the awareness of minute changes in your diminishment of excellence which will shorten the time of ‘halting’ and then get back on track. Don’t “try to ‘go somewhere’” – just become aware what happened and then again take the foot off the brakes, which you inadvertently/ habitually had put down.

Kuba: So it seems what is required is to find a way to remain in no1 indefinitely, which means finding a way to return there once ‘I’ come in with ‘my’ friction – “a funny feeling in the belly when anxiousness sets in”, hehe it is quite funny that ‘I’ could prevent ‘myself’ from meeting ‘my’ destiny over such a silly thing. (link)

You don’t need to find the way back, you know it already. Occasional jitters are a natural part of the process. Allow the tenderness, it’s sweet and it’s fun, and the already existing perfection will each time become more and more apparent.

Cheers Vineeto

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What a fruitful discussion this was! Thank you Claudiu and Vineeto. You know something has clicked when there is that sense of - “How could I have not seen this all this time!?”. Of course the answer was hiding in plain sight. I’m very happy that these discussions are on the World Wide Web for fellow human beings to make use of and to avoid various pitfalls.

What you wrote Vineeto it really hit bullseye with regards to what has been going on for me. It seems too simple typing it out now :laughing: But just like ‘I’ can get back to feeling good by seeing that ‘I’ am ‘my’ feelings and thus ‘I’ can ‘be’ the felicitous/innoocuos feelings as opposed to the sorrowful and malicious feelings. Well the same thing can be done with these “jitters” - I think this is actually a pretty cool term for these.

Somehow what ‘I’ did was separate ‘myself’ from those jitters. ‘I’ would see them as “screams of a dying entity”, as if the screams and the entity were not ‘me’. At the very worst of all this (and Vineeto you might remember this) ‘I’ was writing about ‘me’ kicking and screaming, as if this “dying entity” was to just go in the corner and die in silence, and stop being such an inconvenience. Of course this entity that ‘I’ had separated ‘myself’ from is - ‘me’.

So these jitters were seen as happening to ‘me’, and so all ‘I’ could apparently do is ride them out, as if waiting for a storm to pass, helpless. Then it clicked today that of course those jitters and all the rest of it - ‘I’ am ‘being’ those things when they are happening, it is ‘me’ after-all.

And what a wonderful thing to discover, because now seeing that ‘I’ am ‘being’ those jitters, ‘I’ am able to get back to ‘being’ naivete. And now ‘I’ see what a callous way it was to behave towards ‘myself’ in this way.

And spending the day today in the bester territory but without this fear of the jitters anymore, it has been incredible.

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Vineeto to Claudiu: Is the “feeling driven” a close cousin to the “‘gung-ho yeah!!’ self” – a diversion from that funny feeling in the belly when anxiousness sets in? If so, I can recommend to stay with that ‘funny feeling’ as long as you dare, without fighting it or expressing it as being driven (both options give the anxiousness extra energy), and experiment a bit. This will reduce the intensity and ‘whoosh’, you are back to feeling good. (link)
Kuba: Hehe this is a cool way of describing ‘my’ anxiety – “a funny feeling in the belly when anxiousness sets in”, doesn’t sound so serious when you put it this way (link)

Kuba: 1 - “things are happening” – this is where there isn’t any of that kind of feeling, ‘I’ am ‘being’ supremely naive and it seems that ‘I’ am well on route to meeting ‘my’ destiny.
2 - “Funny feeling in the belly” – This is where there is still this dynamic aspect all around but also this anxiousness which is as if wanting to halt what is going on.
3 - “towards ‘normality’” – This is where ‘I’ have allowed the anxiousness to do its thing and now ‘I’ have reverted back to some kind of ‘normality’ in order to ease the pressure. (link)
Vineeto: So, when No. 2 or No. 3 happens you don’t repress and don’t express, i.e. don’t feed the feeling, acknowledge that you are the feeling and get back to No. 1. That’s the natural dynamic of the vortex of swirling feelings, until you are ready to let pure intent take over completely (link)

Kuba: What a fruitful discussion this was! Thank you Claudiu and Vineeto. You know something has clicked when there is that sense of – “How could I have not seen this all this time!?” Of course the answer was hiding in plain sight. I’m very happy that these discussions are on the World Wide Web for fellow human beings to make use of and to avoid various pitfalls.
What you wrote Vineeto it really hit bullseye with regards to what has been going on for me. It seems too simple typing it out now But just like ‘I’ can get back to feeling good by seeing that ‘I’ am ‘my’ feelings and thus ‘I’ can ‘be’ the felicitous/ innocuous feelings as opposed to the sorrowful and malicious feelings. Well the same thing can be done with these “jitters” – I think this is actually a pretty cool term for these.

Hi Kuba,

Well, well, I was literally astounded that this was so eye-opening for you. At first, I thought it was too trite to write it out, it being the actualism method 101. What an effect a choice of a different expressions can make! Perhaps it has something to do with the serious conditioning of mainly the male of the species to not show or express fear of any kind – and therefore not to feel fear – whatever the circumstances. I am pleased to see you could unlock this secret door with the more acceptable label of “a funny feeling in the belly when anxiousness sets in” and/or “jitters” – well done.

Kuba: Somehow what ‘I’ did was separate ‘myself’ from those jitters. ‘I’ would see them as “screams of a dying entity”, as if the screams and the entity were not ‘me’. At the very worst of all this (and Vineeto you might remember this) ‘I’ was writing about ‘me’ kicking and screaming, as if this “dying entity” was to just go in the corner and die in silence, and stop being such an inconvenience. Of course this entity that ‘I’ had separated ‘myself’ from is – ‘me’.

Yes, I remember you writing that. Feeling being ‘Vineeto’ at first had qualms to admit that fear was happening, and serendipitously it was recorded on the AFT when Richard called a spade a spade –

‘VINEETO’: Senses are operating but nobody is seeing or hearing and then there is no difference between me and the desk I am seeing, no distance, no ‘I’. Last night I experienced life beyond ‘being’, in a strange way hollow, but very alive and sensate. Now I slowly, slowly can examine the plastic between the stubbies, what it is made of, because recognised it disappears. Sometimes it is fear, sometimes a feeling, sometimes a sense of continuity, of having past and future and definition. (…)
‘VINEETO’: With the stubbies I meant in this incident my actual senses including the brain, fully functioning, better than with the ‘plastic’, but they had no definition or identifiable form, hence the description ‘formlessness’. It is more an idea of a form that was missing. I seemed to be made out of the pieces of information that the senses gave me, the seeing, hearing, thinking, but it had no continuity, no person as such, no identity.
RICHARD: Ah … now I am with you. I remember the first time I experienced being the senses only during a peak experience. There was no identity as ‘I’ thinking or ‘me’ feeling … simply this body ambling across a grassy field in the early-morning light. A million dew-drenched spider-webs danced a sparkling delight over the verdant vista and a question that had been running for some weeks became experientially answered: without the senses I would not know that I exist. And further to this: I was the senses and the senses were me. With this comes an awareness of being conscious … apperception.
Is it not staggering to realise that the identity is felt to be so very real that when it goes into abeyance one initially experiences oneself as having no form … ‘formless’? (…)

RICHARD: It would appear that the experiential study of fear is germane to any examination of the ‘plastic between the stubbies’ so as to ensure a life beyond ‘being’.
‘VINEETO’: Yes, I agree, although often it does not appear as fear, rather a certain hesitancy to fully enjoy the moment, to lash into the sparkles and to become yet more alive – a safe place of ‘this is already enough happiness and pleasure, let’s not rock the boat!’ But since I have nothing else important to do, I might as well rock the boat and become entirely mad!
RICHARD: It may not appear as fear but ‘a certain hesitancy’ and ‘a safe place’ and ‘let’s not rock the boat’ all go to indicate fear … in this paragraph the fear of going mad. Now, some people say: ‘Richard is mad’. From the real world point of view, this observation is entirely correct. The ‘Richard’ that was so very real back in 1981 was deathly afraid of experiencing where I am now … yet he opened the door marked ‘madness’ and walked through. Then he panicked at his daring and sought to go back … but the door had vanished. He had no choice but to proceed.
There is a thrilling aspect to fear … and it is the source of courage. [Emphasis added]. (Richard, AF List, Vineeto, 5 Aug 1998).

Then Richard’s writing on the topic made a lot more sense to ‘her’.

Kuba: So these jitters were seen as happening to ‘me’, and so all ‘I’ could apparently do is ride them out, as if waiting for a storm to pass, helpless. Then it clicked today that of course those jitters and all the rest of it – ‘I’ am ‘being’ those things when they are happening, it is ‘me’ after-all.
And what a wonderful thing to discover, because now seeing that ‘I’ am ‘being’ those jitters, ‘I’ am able to get back to ‘being’ naivete. And now ‘I’ see what a callous way it was to behave towards ‘myself’ in this way.

Ha, not for nothing did Richard emphasise that “nothing can be swept under the carpet”. It’s great you found out that you are “those jitters and all the rest of it”, expressions of the basic instinctual passion of fear, “encircling all of humankind”. There is no shame in admitting that they are surfacing from time to time in this most daring of enterprises in human consciousness.

Kuba: And spending the day today in the bester territory but without this fear of the jitters anymore, it has been incredible. (link)

You said it well – “fear of the jitters” – it is the fear of fear which is the largest aspect of it, and once you allow the feeling itself without feeding it with fear of fear then what remains is mostly small potatoes.

Here is something I read today, which you might find relevant explaining that ‘not expressing the feeling’ (or even being unaware of the feeling) nevertheless will involuntarily radiate its accompanying vibes/ currents.

Of course, felicitous/ innocuous feelings will respectively radiate felicitous/ innocuous vibes and psychic currents.

RESPONDENT: Also, what is the relative importance with the actualism method of ‘not expressing’ an emotion as opposed to feeling happy and harmless, thus putting out happy and harmless vibes?
RICHARD: As there is no such [quote] ‘actualism method of ‘not expressing’ an emotion’ [endquote] it is difficult to determine just what it is you are asking … and why you are.
If what you are referring to is to neither express nor suppress any of the ‘good’ or ‘bad’ feelings/ emotions/ passions – and thus put them into a bind so the third alternative (felicity/ innocuity) may hove into view – then the relative importance (to use your phrasing) is the resultant involuntary extrasensorial emanation of those happy and harmless vibes into the human psyche, in particular, and the animal psyche in general.
RESPONDENT: If good and bad vibes are felt by others regardless of emotional expression, why is it important not to express the good and bad feelings if they will be felt regardless of expression?
RICHARD: As nowhere is it advised that it is [quote] ‘important not to express the good and bad feelings’ [endquote] then I am unable to answer your query as-is.
(It is, essentially, a matter of choice/ personal preference as to what feelings are expressed).
What I can say is this: as the many and various emotions/ passions are the same affective energy, at root, then directing all of that affective energy into being the felicitous/ innocuous feelings (that is, ‘me’ at the core of ‘my’ being, which is ‘being’ itself), via minimisation of the ‘good’ and ‘bad’ feelings and maximisation of the happy and harmless feelings, will have the effect of involuntarily radiating felicitous/ innocuous vibes and currents as a matter of course.
RESPONDENT: Isn’t it possible to hide what one is feeling?
RICHARD: If you mean ‘hide what one is feeling’ as in disguising the physical effects such feeling has on one’s vocal chords/ one’s physiognomy/ one’s posture (as per the tone of voice/ facial expression/ body language mentioned further above) then, yes, of course one can … peoples everywhere do so regularly on a daily basis.
(Diplomats, for an obvious instance, elevate doing so into a high art-form as part and parcel of their job-description).
If, however (going by your follow-up question below), you mean is it possible to hide the affective vibes which all feeling-beings involuntarily transmit, extrasensorially, by virtue of affectively/ psychically existing as a ‘being’ then, no, one cannot … and the word ‘involuntarily’ should explain why.
RESPONDENT: Is it a matter of sensitivity whether or not a vibe is picked up if it is not expressed?
RICHARD: As a vibe is not [quote] ‘expressed’ [quote], but is involuntarily transmitted regardless of whether feelings are expressed or suppressed, your query cannot be answered as-is.
What I can say is this: it is a matter of sensitivity whether affective vibes are consciously discerned or not.
The vast majority of feeling-beings experience other feeling-being’s vibes as if they are their own feelings – and are, of course, totally oblivious to the very existence of psychic currents [The actualism term ‘psychic currents’ unlike affective ‘vibes’) are new to human knowledge/ human history] – as is evidenced with people like yourself denying there is any such thing as is reported/ described/ explained on The Actual Freedom Trust website (and repeatedly talking about physical cues/ physical means as if those physical effects which feelings display bodily were the vibes themselves).
A feeling-being, by virtue of being an affective/ psychic ‘being’, involuntarily emanates/ transmits/ radiates affective vibes (and psychic currents), extrasensorially, regardless of whether they express or suppress feelings and/or whether they display or conceal any physical effects feelings may have on their tone of voice/ their facial expression/ their body language. (Richard, List D, No. 25c, 29 Oct 2013)

Cheers Vineeto

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Vineeto to Claudiu: Is the “feeling driven” a close cousin to the “‘gung-ho yeah!!’ self” – a diversion from that funny feeling in the belly when anxiousness sets in? If so, I can recommend to stay with that ‘funny feeling’ as long as you dare, without fighting it or expressing it as being driven (both options give the anxiousness extra energy), and experiment a bit. This will reduce the intensity and ‘whoosh’, you are back to feeling good. (link)
Kuba: Hehe this is a cool way of describing ‘my’ anxiety – “a funny feeling in the belly when anxiousness sets in”, doesn’t sound so serious when you put it this way. (link)

Claudiu: Hehe I feel it more like something in my chest than the belly
It is interesting to stay with it and suss it out. Intrinsic to it is a desire to look away from it. I was able to see it that the effect of fear is for me to look away from the fear, and then as soon as I look away from it now it’s driving me to do this or that (being driven definitely stems from fear, I can see this clearly). So perhaps I just have to not look away

Hi Claudiu,

That’s interesting that you feel it in the chest – an anxiousness (“the knot”, which perhaps even acts on your ease/ joy of breathing). When you decline the “desire to look away” and dare to allow it, see if you can feel it sinking into the deeper region of your belly, where the more profound feelings are generally situated and from there to the core of your ‘being’.

Then by not feeding the anxiousness (allowing it to happen and thus taking the fear of being anxious out of the affective mix) you can then recognize that you are the feeling, and hey presto, get back to being felicitous, and perhaps weaken/ dissolve the ‘knot’ altogether.

Claudiu: At some point recently (before the ~24hr experience) while experiencing pure intent I also saw and was enjoying allowing pure intent into the ‘knot’ of me that I experience. It was like allowing pure intent to waft through all my nooks and crannies. It felt very nice! (link)

Sounds great.

Here is what Richard recommended to Syd to do to access naiveté –

Richard: Reach down inside of yourself intuitively (aka feeling it out) and go past the rather superficial emotions/ feelings (generally in the chest area) into the deeper, more profound passions/ feelings (generally in the solar plexus area) until you come to a place (generally about four-finger widths below the navel) where you intuitively feel you elementarily have existence as a feeling being (as in ‘me’ at the core of ‘my’ being … which is ‘being’ itself).
Now, having located ‘being’ itself, gently and tenderly sense out the area immediately below that (just above/ just before and almost touching on the sex centre).
Here you will find yourself both likeable and liking (for here lies sincerity/ naiveté).
Here is where you can, finally, like yourself (very important) no matter what.
Here is the nearest a ‘self’ can get to innocence whilst remaining a ‘self’.
Here lies tenderness/ sweetness and togetherness/ closeness.
Here is where it is possible to be the key. (Richard, List D, Syd, 26 May 2009).

Cheers Vineeto

PS. The Actualism Method video excerpt is now also accessible (embedded) at the bottom of Richard’s Article of This Moment of Being Alive as well as from the homepage.

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Hi Vineeto,

Yes there is something of that kind exactly which I could sum it up with the admonition to - “keep yourself together”. I only have to go back to mine and Sonya’s wedding to demonstrate such a thing. That when the weight of the situation (it being a public event and the rest of it) begins to be felt there is the sense that Sonya could publicly express her potential anxiety or what have you, that perhaps it would even be seen as cute etc And then I as the man feel that I am to “be the rock”, that I must “keep it together”.

And this is exactly it, again taking the wedding situation as an example, it is not that there is an issue with fear per se, it is rather that by admitting/showing/being seen to be afraid I am “not keeping it together”.

This is a pretty fascinating topic actually because I can see this being a very core feature of being a ‘man’, the rock, the protector, the one that has it under control etc. What ‘I’ fear more than fear itself is being publicly known to be afraid. And of course this just becomes a layer cake of fear and anxiety.
As Claudiu wrote I do often experience it in the chest region and it seems it is exactly because of it becoming that “layer cake”, that if this fear is allowed then it is experienced in the belly area.
But of course considering the kind of conditioning that has been enforced on men through history I can see just how strong this would be. That this would be one of ‘my’ worst fates as a ‘man’ - to publicly be known to be afraid.

Of course it is not to do with publicly showing this or that, as it is about neither expressing nor repressing the fear and ‘being’ that fear without moving in either direction. But the most insidious outcome of this conditioning is that ‘I’ separate ‘myself’ from ‘my’ fear and thus lock it into that “layer cake”. Then ‘I’ can only crank up the aggression on ‘myself’ and fight this fear as if ‘I’ am fighting dragons and various other monsters. And of course in the process ‘I’ become callous, insensitive etc.
What a fascinating thing it is to untangle all this, and as Richard said absolutely nothing can be swept under the rug - indeed it will come out sooner or later.
So what I can see is that initially this way of dealing with fear is what ‘I’ did to fit into ‘my’ role as a man. But once habituated this became a problem in its own right, because the only thing ‘I’ could ‘do’ with ‘my’ fear was to turn it into a layer cake and then fight with it.

And this aspect of using aggression to cover up / deal with ‘my’ feelings, this can be observed as a very common coping strategy for men. That to be emotional equals being weak / not keeping it together. Now I am not proposing the opposite of this (which is quite a popular flavour of belief these days) that “true strength lies in vulnerability” etc. This would simply be to move from suppression to expression.
It is more about untangling this whole mess and seeing that ‘I’ am ‘my’ feelings and ‘my’ feelings are ‘me’, that whatever feeling is currently taking place in the affective faculty - ‘I’ am ‘being’ that feeling. And once this is seen (with any feeling whatsoever) it is remarkably freeing.

In fact it is as if now I understand the actualism method fully - In that I know there is not a single feeling that ‘I’ could experience which is not something ‘I’ am at the same time ‘being’. That is to say ‘I’ am no longer afraid of this and that feeling, they are not something coming from ‘out there’ to get ‘me’. And this applies without exception to anything at all that takes place in the affective faculty, which means ‘I’ always have a choice in how ‘I’ am experiencing this moment of being alive.

And taking the above into account whilst knowing experientially what is possible for ‘me’ to live, of course it is ‘being’ naïveté that is the optimum manner in which ‘I’ can experience this moment of being alive - there is no reason at all not to live it each moment again.

I will just add the below too :

Kuba: So it seems what is required is to find a way to remain in no1 indefinitely, which means finding a way to return there once ‘I’ come in with ‘my’ friction – “a funny feeling in the belly when anxiousness sets in”, hehe it is quite funny that ‘I’ could prevent ‘myself’ from meeting ‘my’ destiny over such a silly thing.
Vineeto: You don’t need to find the way back, you know it already. Occasional jitters are a natural part of the process. Allow the tenderness, it’s sweet and it’s fun, and the already existing perfection will each time become more and more apparent.

This really hit the nail on the head too, of course I don’t have to find it at all, in the same way I wouldn’t write something like - I can feel good some of the time so I need to find a way to feel good all of the time. It is the same way! If I can get back to feeling good once I can get back to feeling good every time. There is not a separate way for once and another for all of the time.

The key word is habituation. Whereas it seems often ‘I’ am looking for a Hail Mary.

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Vineeto: Well, well, I was literally astounded that this was so eye-opening for you. At first, I thought it was too trite to write it out, it being the actualism method 101. What an effect a choice of a different expressions can make! Perhaps it has something to do with the serious conditioning of mainly the male of the species to not show or express fear of any kind – and therefore not to feel fear – whatever the circumstances. [Emphasis by Kuba].

Kuba: Yes there is something of that kind exactly which I could sum it up with the admonition to – “keep yourself together”. I only have to go back to mine and Sonya’s wedding to demonstrate such a thing. That when the weight of the situation (it being a public event and the rest of it) begins to be felt there is the sense that Sonya could publicly express her potential anxiety or what have you, that perhaps it would even be seen as cute etc And then I as the man feel that I am to “be the rock”, that I must “keep it together”.

Hi Kuba,

Thank you for your long and perspicacious reply. It’s a good way to sum up one of the major social identity rules for a ‘man’ – to “keep it together”, as a provider and protector. Given that this particular conditioning is rooted in the social identity, i.e. the whole image/ persona you have imbibed from childhood onward of ‘who’ you should be, it would make sense to dismantle this identity first.

To explain, the social identity is overlaid over the instinctual passions attempting to curb the worst excesses but can be safely dismantled with an active pure intent in place.

Even though one can become actually free without having dismantled the whole of one’s social identity – if aspects of it bother you now then now is the time to examine those and may remove a lot of your present ‘jitters’. It will also remove various obstacles/ concerns which you may come across exploring the full range of naiveté and being as close to innocence as a ‘self’ can be.

There is a very useful and informative article on “The Formation and Persistence of the Social Identity” which Richard wrote only two years ago. He lists the various aspects of each person’s social identity, and you are presently looking at Points No. 8 and No. 9 of the list, but the others most likely apply as well. A summary can be found at the Library page on Social Identity with additional links to related topics and various selected correspondences.

I have also added a section in the “Basic to Full Freedom” article, called man/woman identity as well as the follow-up sexual identity. There is heaps of useful information both from Richard, as well as from ‘Peter’ and ‘Vineeto’ who explored a wide range of their own social identities during the in-control methodological virtual freedom.

Vineeto: You said it well – “fear of the jitters” – it is the fear of fear which is the largest aspect of it, and once you allow the feeling itself without feeding it with fear of fear then what remains is mostly small potatoes.

Kuba: And this is exactly it, again taking the wedding situation as an example, it is not that there is an issue with fear per se, it is rather that by admitting/ showing/ being seen to be afraid I am “not keeping it together”.

Ha, there is a reason why an ongoing excellence experience is called Being-out-from-under-control – the control being determined by your social conditioning.

Kuba: This is a pretty fascinating topic actually because I can see this being a very core feature of being a ‘man’, the rock, the protector, the one that has it under control etc. What ‘I’ fear more than fear itself is being publicly known to be afraid. And of course this just becomes a layer cake of fear and anxiety.
As Claudiu wrote I do often experience it in the chest region and it seems it is exactly because of it becoming that “layer cake”, that if this fear is allowed then it is experienced in the belly area.
But of course considering the kind of conditioning that has been enforced on men through history I can see just how strong this would be. That this would be one of ‘my’ worst fates as a ‘man’ – to publicly be known to be afraid.

This is certainly a promising field of investigation, and you will be surprised how freeing it is when the various layers of this conditioning fall by the wayside when you discover how redundant all these aspects of ‘you’, the guardian, really are when pure intent is guiding you.

Kuba: Of course it is not to do with publicly showing this or that, as it is about neither expressing nor repressing the fear and ‘being’ that fear without moving in either direction. But the most insidious outcome of this conditioning is that ‘I’ separate ‘myself’ from ‘my’ fear and thus lock it into that “layer cake”. Then ‘I’ can only crank up the aggression on ‘myself’ and fight this fear as if ‘I’ am fighting dragons and various other monsters. And of course in the process ‘I’ become callous, insensitive etc.
What a fascinating thing it is to untangle all this, and as Richard said absolutely nothing can be swept under the rug – indeed it will come out sooner or later.
So what I can see is that initially this way of dealing with fear is what ‘I’ did to fit into ‘my’ role as a man. But once habituated this became a problem in its own right, because the only thing ‘I’ could ‘do’ with ‘my’ fear was to turn it into a layer cake and then fight with it.

It’s great that you see this because now your focus of attention has shifted to where the first problem is, not fear itself but the role you have accepted simply because you were born as a male flesh-and-blood body.

Kuba: And this aspect of using aggression to cover up / deal with ‘my’ feelings, this can be observed as a very common coping strategy for men. That to be emotional equals being weak / not keeping it together. Now I am not proposing the opposite of this (which is quite a popular flavour of belief these days) that “true strength lies in vulnerability” etc. This would simply be to move from suppression to expression.
It is more about untangling this whole mess and seeing that ‘I’ am ‘my’ feelings and ‘my’ feelings are ‘me’, that whatever feeling is currently taking place in the affective faculty – ‘I’ am ‘being’ that feeling. And once this is seen (with any feeling whatsoever) it is remarkably freeing.

Again, there is a third alternative – look at the specific morals and ethics and beliefs and attitudes and persona you have taken on board with their accompanying beliefs and principles and see if any of them is worth keeping (apart from paying lip service and obeying the laws of the land and social protocols).

Richard: Another part of what ‘I’ am made up of is beliefs: one’s sense of being a social identity is largely made up of beliefs … beliefs as well as feelings. In fact, a belief is an emotion-backed thought … passionate imagination. The vast majority of the beliefs that one carries are not invented by oneself; they were imbibed with the mother’s milk and added to thereupon up to the present day. They are inherited beliefs, put into the child with love and fear – reward and punishment – and added to as an adult out of awe and dread – the carrot and the stick – that power and authority engenders and thrives upon. It behoves one to examine each and every belief – especially those that pass for ‘truths’ – and watch them disappear out of one’s life forever. It is no wonder human beings are such a desperate lot. Beliefs and feelings are the bane of humankind … they have been so instrumental in killing, maiming, torturing and otherwise causing such pain and suffering since the dawn of human history, that one wonders that they are given any credence at all these days. It is so liberating to be free of beliefs – of the action of believing itself – and feelings that I cannot recommend their elimination highly enough. [Emphases added]. (Richard, Articles, This Moment of Being Alive).

Kuba: In fact it is as if now I understand the actualism method fully – In that I know there is not a single feeling that ‘I’ could experience which is not something ‘I’ am at the same time ‘being’. That is to say ‘I’ am no longer afraid of this and that feeling, they are not something coming from ‘out there’ to get ‘me’. And this applies without exception to anything at all that takes place in the affective faculty, which means ‘I’ always have a choice in how ‘I’ am experiencing this moment of being alive.
And taking the above into account whilst knowing experientially what is possible for ‘me’ to live, of course it is ‘being’ naïveté that is the optimum manner in which ‘I’ can experience this moment of being alive – there is no reason at all not to live it each moment again.

What I am suggesting, when I talk about the beliefs which make up one’s social identity is that when you look at a particular belief/ principle which includes a whole range of associated feelings, then once you are able to see through that particular belief and replace it with the factual evidence that it’s unnecessary, the whole range of associated feelings will also disappear.

Kuba: I will just add the below too :

Kuba: So it seems what is required is to find a way to remain in no1 indefinitely, which means finding a way to return there once ‘I’ come in with ‘my’ friction – “a funny feeling in the belly when anxiousness sets in”, hehe it is quite funny that ‘I’ could prevent ‘myself’ from meeting ‘my’ destiny over such a silly thing.
Vineeto: You don’t need to find the way back, you know it already. Occasional jitters are a natural part of the process. Allow the tenderness, it’s sweet and it’s fun, and the already existing perfection will each time become more and more apparent.

Kuba: This really hit the nail on the head too, of course I don’t have to find it at all, in the same way I wouldn’t write something like – I can feel good some of the time so I need to find a way to feel good all of the time. It is the same way! If I can get back to feeling good once I can get back to feeling good every time. There is not a separate way for once and another for all of the time.

Yes, there is no separate way for any of your feelings, but if they are kept in situ by a feeling-fed thought, i.e. one or more beliefs, then you look at the belief(s) first.

You must be delighted to have found more puzzles to solve.

Kuba: The key word is habituation. Whereas it seems often ‘I’ am looking for a Hail Mary. (link)

Mmh, I’m not sure that either “habituation” or “Hail Mary” are the way to proceed. I’m confident you will let me know.

Cheers Vineeto

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Kub933's Journal
Kub933's Journal
Ian's Journal
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Some fun things:

I kept figuring that there is nothing really stopping me from doing it or going for it. Like there can’t be. We could say fear or anxiety or whatnot but this is not something external to ‘me’ – it is me!! So at any point I can just decide to go for it.

(This is distinct from the gung-ho aspect which is me feeling like I’m going for it while actually not :joy:)

But really kept figuring I can just go for it. And that pure intent can really help with this! So I set about allowing pure intent in as much as possible, and it seemed to work. Like I go to a ‘place’ that was further ‘ahead’ than I was before doing that.

The next day (today) it was a definite step up from the day before, in that I felt everything was fine and it’s silly to worry about this or that etc… yet nevertheless I was still feeling driven about some project. But at the same time it’s like ok I don’t need to go do this thing… but then I was anyway.

For dinner I went to McDonald’s and whilst staring at the Chicken Big Mac (that I only too late learned is just a chicken nugget shaped like a patty haha)… I’m trying to get the order right here since I feel it’s important to know the chain of events. I think I basically realized I was doing the same thing as last time (letting myself be driven away from this/into something else), so I decided to let myself acclimatize to the level of pure intent I was experiencing then. And I was eating the Chicken Big Mac and… something about eating with me haha, it was just so pure and the colours so pristine. I don’t remember the exact order of events now but I was wondering about how it’s like I have to self-immolate so I won’t be there, but it feels like I can just go for it and that it’s sort of strange to think of it that way… and I found myself in a PCE haha. The first thought was “it’s always different than how I remembered” haha. (Not the first time this thought happened in a PCE)

It was interesting in that I was feeling really mentally tired, and my head was heavy, and it was interesting to note that the actual physical aspect of it was just the barest kind of trace of some physical sensation in my head, like almost nothing really at all. The vast bulk of the tiredness was evidently affective.

I was very much enjoying the deep richness of the Chicken Big Mac & fries, and took the first sip of the Coke Zero (I was neglecting to drink the liquid before haha).

I was reflecting on things and, related to the train of thought right before, I really noticed just how safe it was. It was just safe to do this. By this point I had come back into the picture, and it really struck me deeply, experientially, that it is safe to do this! I felt such a relief at the core of my being at recognizing this. So, it’s not that I have to cajole or trick myself into going on a path that is dangerous – it actually is a safe path to travel!! No self-trickery required lol

And really soon after this, I think while still eating the Chicken Big Mac (I thought it would be very amusing to self-immolate while eating McDonalds hahahaha), or maybe shortly after, as my drive was coming back, it just struck me suddenly that “I don’t want to be driven!” It was a sincere (inner) outburst. Like it’s something I actually wanted, not to be driven any more. I was really delighted to see that this is what I wanted haha.

So it goes back to the no self-trickery needed. I contemplated on this continuously as I didn’t want to lose all this, and it really reinforced how the way this will work is with a naive willingness to do it. Like an actual wanting to do it! That is all it takes. And I do want to do it! And it is safe haha.

The other cool thing later in the night while nodding off for a nap, I don’t remember what I was thinking about but suddenly I had a vision of like a toy car driving sideways (like on a side-scroller adventure) and hitting a wall and just stopping. And with that stopping, I practically stopped! I saw how before I was constantly in anxious motion, but I was only able to recognize that by the fact that now I was, essentially completely stopped. It was really striking and remarkable, a new experience. But I saw I wasn’t fully 100% stopped, and soon I started up again going as I was. But it was interesting. I guess I cannot fully 100% stop outside of, self-immolation.

Ah yea the funny thing about this:

I don’t remember the exact order of events now but I was wondering about how it’s like I have to self-immolate so I won’t be there, but it feels like I can just go for it and that it’s sort of strange to think of it that way… and I found myself in a PCE haha.

So it seemed simpler and it just worked to have the PCE, but then when I was fully back it was really clear that I do have to fully disappear for it to work. Like I will actually disappear… but simultaneously it’s safe… and the experience of disappearing is not an untoward one lol… it is still kinda strange isn’t it?

So anyways that is the update for now.

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Oh and then it was like hmm and how do I foster a naive willingness… and it’s like ah yea by enjoying and appreciating being alive :rofl: it all comes back to that , that is the whole point

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Yes, naive willingness to me means to enjoy and appreciate w\o wanting to change it or be different than what it is.

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@claudiu Thanks for this which has helped me to actually see that ‘I am my feelings and my feelings are me’. I can’t say that I have ever seen this as a fact before.

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Ah well I certainly wasn’t putting out any harmful or aggressive vibes writing it, but it was still me a feeling-being doing so :smile:

I find myself unable to really write any update. Anything I write I sense it will just convey something other than what I am really experiencing or going through. Like it would ‘crystallize’ some things that are not really as set as they would seem to be from what I would write. So I will just leave it at that lol. But am happy to convey things to other people if they have questions like what piqued me to write the message to Henry about if Jane Goodall’s experience was a PCE

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Hi Claudiu,

Well thanks for the update :slightly_smiling_face:

I always wrote quite a bit on the forum but especially since Vineeto started writing I wanted to take full benefit from that opportunity. But I can see it can be a diversion too, because there are things happening and what I will do is each little shift or change or insight or whatever I will write about it and as you say crystallise it, into something that almost takes a life of it’s own. Then I am busy playing to this new map.

It’s a bit like this actually :

Pure perception takes place sensitively just before one starts feeling the percept – and thus thinking about it affectively – which takes place just before one’s feeling-fed mind says: ‘It’s a man’ or: ‘It’s a woman’ or: ‘It’s a steak-burger’ or: ‘It’s a tofu-burger’ … with all that is implied in this identification and the ramifications that stem from that. This fluid, soft-focused moment of bare awareness, which is not learned, has never been learned, and never will be learned, could be called an aesthetically sensual regardfulness or a consummate sensorial discernibleness or an exquisitely sensuous distinguishment … in a word: apperceptiveness

So whatever the initial seeing was, that moment has passed and ‘I’ am now busy making a map out of it ie “it’s a tofu-burger”.

Effectively it is that the experiential aspect is traded for an intellectual involvement.

So the experience of actuality is it’s own verification, not sure why ‘I’ am so hellbent on making a synthetic map out of it, as if the experience itself needs additional support…

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Yes it’s something like this. You can always make a ‘story’ about whatever happened. But the story is never the thing. So describing the thing ends up being making a narrative of it and I don’t find it helpful to me or others at the moment

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