Hi Kuba,
Time to put on my dancing shoes, hey?
Cheers Vineeto
I didn’t reply to this, not because I disregard the message, rather it seems the only way I can reply with integrity and appreciation is by action, and there is only 1 action left now!
It’s becoming quite a fascinating/exhilarating thing to look for, this button that exists within ‘me’. And to know that once found ‘I’ will have already pressed it. I am certain this button exists, just waiting to be pressed.
Hi Kuba,
I didn’t expect a reply but I was skipping from the back deck to the kitchen (which is not very far) when I had read you previous post.
It is such a delicious joy to read your posts and those of all the others who report success and getting closer and closer to their destiny – my appreciation for this happening right in front my eyes is immense.
One is I saw how it won’t work at all for ‘me’ to try to push or rush in any way to self immolate. I saw it very clearly: it’s like I would be conjuring up an illusion of some obstacle, like imagining a thin space between two rocks, and then I would be trying to squeeze myself through the imagined rocks to get to the ‘other side’. But the ‘other side’ would still be within the human condition since it’s all made up in my mind (or more accurately my soul)! So that simply won’t work, genuine freedom will be reached by a different approach
The other astounding one is i saw clearly that there is no such thing as a “Perfect Being”. This came in the context of morality, of doing or behaving the ‘morally perfect’ way. I simply saw that such a being cannot exist. The only being that could qualify would be some type of God, but such a God does not exist in any way.
Seeing that there’s no such perfect being it then becomes immediately obvious it is silly to try to be morally perfect — it’s impossible! No such thing is possible. And likewise any self-reproach or castigation at failing at this imagined ‘moral perfection’ is unwarranted and also silly.
This is all made possible by knowing there is actual perfection all around, that is actually perfect and is of a different quality than any imagined moral perfection — most notably in that it actually exists!! But an actually free person is not considered morally perfect, as exemplified by the various hostile correspondences over the years and other blaming or criticizing of how actually free people do things. This is not a valid critique though since moral perfection doesn’t exist anyway and they are indeed living an actual perfection
Well today has been another wondrous day. The main event was me thinking I did it, which turned out to be a false positive – but it doesn’t exactly seem like it was an actuality-mimicking ASC, either
What happened is I was out climbing, and went to use nature’s restroom, and as I have been continuously contemplating and reflecting on and allowing self-immolation to happen, I thought it’d be really funny if I went to the bathroom and came back actually free haha. So on the way there I noticed some change or shift in experience, and wondered if that was it. On the way back after I did my business I noticed that I was spontaneously skipping with joy and delight over the rocks and really having a blast, mired in their wondrous detail.
My experience really was different than usual lately. I experienced it as that I was the senses / the sensate experience was much more immediate. It is also like full-blast wondrous purity was available essentially ‘on demand’, like I would just wonder about it and experience would instantly become more pure and magical.
It also seemed very obviously clear that time does not move, that the past doesn’t exist, and it’s always now, and there is no other moment. This was my experience of it. And, climbing on the rock wall, it was much different than I would usually do it, much easier, I saw and tried stuff that I just wouldn’t have before, and it was all natural and I was just having a blast.
However I experienced some uncertainty as to whether I had done it, and it seemed like it was a feeling of self-doubt somehow. I wondered if this was some remnant – I thought that wow, ‘Claudiu’ was really caught up with his identity of self-immolating and succeeding in that, and maybe because it was so habitual I (as actually free Claudiu) was experiencing remnants of it that were not feelings anymore. I couldn’t exactly tell if it was affective or not.
But then I realized that I could easily solve the uncertainty, I didn’t have to be uncertain – I could just apply the same contemplation and pure intent towards this topic, and find out what the actual answer is, if I was actually free or not. I thought about describing it all to Vineeto also and realized that Vineeto would not be able to figure it out for me, actually, I had to do it myself – and it just made sense and was so obvious and straightforward. That this was so straightforward made me think that maybe I had really done it, since before I would have gotten more caught up in it.
I also realized I had a feeling of having done something ‘wrong’, and I saw that no matter what happened, it wouldn’t be ‘wrong’. Either I did succeed, in which case this is wonderful and these are the things that one tidies up after becoming free, and it’ll be valuable info to share with people. Or I didn’t, in which case I will find that out and learn something. There’s no ‘problem’ actually. The only problem would be if I was trying to fool myself or fool others about it, and I saw that I wasn’t, so there really isn’t any issue either way.
I also felt and experienced a deep pang of like “Ahh I just want to have done it already and gotten it over with!!” And I found it so strange. This is not something to ‘get over with’. It is a wondrous journey and path with immense benefits for all involved and affected. I wonder where I had this feeling from, it was a very deep-down one, and probably it is a remnant from my days of intensive vipassana meditation, which indeed was very unpleasant and definitely something to ‘get over with’ (or better yet avoid entirely lol)
So it went like this back and forth for a while. The ease and simplicity at which I was addressing everything made me think I succeeded. But the uncertainty, doubts, and confusion kept coming back, each time feeling more familiar, like my usual recent experience of being alive, as a feeling-being. Eventually as I was getting more tired and it was getting later, I got mildly annoyed by what someone did, and I couldn’t deny it any longer haha, I was not actually free.
But the remarkable simplicity and naive sincerity remains. Everything just is so increasingly straightforward! And it was almost like a preview of what it would be like – nothing missing whatsoever. Actually the only thing spoiling it was ‘me’, that is me the feeling-being writing this right now, haha. Except for that ‘little’ bit it was all perfect.
Oh there was one part of it that was very strange. Not sure what to make of it. While climbing up a rock wall I experienced it as two “me” being active at the same time. There was the actual me that was climbing up the wall and having a blast and being aware of being the actual me. And then there was this sort of seemingly-faux inchoate identity-me which was wondering about whether it was actual freedom and what happened.
It was like two “I” were simultaneously active at the same time. It was a bit jarring and rather strange. But also the experience could smoothly adjust to being one I or the other, depending on what “I” (but which I??) would focus on or go towards.
I thought at the time maybe it was how being newly free is experienced and this was the guardian or something, remnants of identity like this. Now I’m not sure what it was, I wasn’t actually free so it definitely wasn’t that. But it wasn’t a PCE because the feeling-being me was apparently there… but I don’t think I was mistaken about the experience of the actual me being apperceptively aware of myself. But I’m not sure how that can be since it wasn’t a PCE.
It is very strange and not sure what to make of it, but thought I’d report it and see if @Vineeto has any feedback
Either way now that things have normalized the path forward is clear again !
Claudiu: My experience really was different than usual lately. I experienced it as that I was the senses / the sensate experience was much more immediate. It is also like full-blast wondrous purity was available essentially ‘on demand’, like I would just wonder about it and experience would instantly become more pure and magical. It also seemed very obviously clear that time does not move, that the past doesn’t exist, and it’s always now, and there is no other moment. […] However I experienced some uncertainty as to whether I had done it, and it seemed like it was a feeling of self-doubt somehow. […]
But then I realized that I could easily solve the uncertainty, I didn’t have to be uncertain – I could just apply the same contemplation and pure intent towards this topic, and find out what the actual answer is, if I was actually free or not. I thought about describing it all to Vineeto also and realized that Vineeto would not be able to figure it out for me, actually, I had to do it myself – and it just made sense and was so obvious and straightforward. […]
I also felt and experienced a deep pang of like “Ahh I just want to have done it already and gotten it over with!!” And I found it so strange. (link)
Hi Claudiu,
This is a great experience in itself, and you are getting exceedingly confident in venturing into the actual world for the nonce.
You are right, I could not have sorted this one out for you and appreciate that you are so meticulous and careful so as to not to fool yourself and others about what is happening. Here might be a clue for you.
To spell it out: Altruism, an instinctual passion for the benefit of every body, can be evoked for a once-in-a-lifetime action to overcome selfism, the generally predominant instinctual survival passion. Being a passion to overcome the imperative passion for survival, it needs to be deeply experienced in order to be activated for ‘self’-immolation. ‘Me’ must fully comprehend the fact that there is no other solution but willingly and gladly giving up ‘my’ existence “for peace-on-earth to be apparent”. It is to comprehend the fact that all other solutions tried by ‘me’ and other feeling beings have been tried and failed and were merely ‘fiddling while Rome still burns’.
Richard: Thus when ‘I’ willingly and irremunerably ‘self’-immolate in toto – both psychologically and psychically – then ‘I’ am making the most noble sacrifice that ‘I’ can make for this body and that body and every body … for ‘I’ am what ‘I’ hold most dear. (Richard, Abditorium, Altruism).
Here is Geoffrey’s report how altruism played a vital part in ‘his’ last moments –
Geoffrey: There was the actual world just right there in front of me, obviously existing, pure and perfect, and then there was ‘me’, ‘humanity’. The contrast was simply hilarious. I can’t describe how hilarious this contrast was. What we’ve all been doing forever and ever, on a ridiculous parade of malice and sorrow, with the greatest seriousness.
I realised that I would indeed gladly die right now, gladly give away all I am, all I ever was, all I’ve done and felt since I was born, for peace-on-earth to be apparent (not even for me but) for everybody. For things to be as they are. And that it would be of no importance at all. No ‘weight’, no drama… just the only thing that made sense, the only sensible thing. (link)
Alternatively, this deep caring about the ubiquitous malice and sorrow of all feeling beings, and wanting to do the only thing one can do about it (i.e. to give all of ‘me’ “for peace-on-earth to be apparent for every body”) can be centred upon a deep caring for one particular person turning into a near-actual intimacy, which with pure intent can change into “a caring as close to an actual caring as an identity can muster.” Viz.:
Richard: As Vineeto’s reports/ descriptions/ explanations of a near-actual caring are scattered throughout her ‘Direct Route Mail-Out’ emails some background details presented numerically will aid clarity in communication.
When feeling-being ‘Vineeto’s everyday feeling of caring first shifted into what has since become known as a near-actual caring the qualitative difference was so marked in its effect ‘she’ initially mistook it to be an actual caring (as per ‘her’ memories of PCE’s).
This shift occurred when ‘she’ transitioned from ‘her’ pragmatic, methodological virtual freedom into being out-from-control – a dynamic, destinal virtual freedom – for the remaining four-and-a-half weeks of ‘her’ life (albeit with a melodramatic three-day out-of-control interlude towards the end).
Due to ‘her’ naïve intent to be as intimate and without prejudice as possible – which, in conjunction with the absence of self-centredness/ self-centricity that is part-and-parcel of being out-from-control had resulted in the actualism method segueing into the actualism process – ‘her’ cheerful and thus willing concurrence allowed pure intent to dynamically pull ‘her’ evermore unto ‘her’ destiny. (Hence the “dynamic, destinal virtual freedom” nomenclature).
This moment-to-moment experiencing of a caring which is not self-centred/ self-centric provided ‘her’ with the experiential convincement that actualising such caring, via ‘self’-immolation, was the only solution to the human condition; this ‘hands-on’ understanding as a dynamically present feeling-being – an impressively distinct contrast to having been abeyant during PCE’s – left ‘her’ with absolutely no choice (lest ‘she’ be forever “rearranging the deck-chairs on the Titanic”).
Since a near-actual caring is, of course, epitomised by a vital interest in the suffering of all human beings coming to an end, forever, as a number one priority, then ‘her’ single-minded focus was essentially centred upon the most immediate way of ensuring this long-awaited global event could begin to take effect the soonest … to wit: bringing ‘her’ own inevitable demise, at physical death, forward into a liminal imminence.
Because the means ‘she’ elected to utilise towards these ends was the near-actual intimacy which goes hand-in-hand with a near-actual caring (per favour that afore-mentioned absence of self-centredness/ self-centricity which typifies being out-from-control) it is apposite to defer to what Vineeto herself wrote on the 20th of January 2010, only fifteen days after her pivotal moment/ definitive event, as its refreshingly simple directness speaks for itself. (Richard, List D, Srinath 2, near-actual-caring). Viz.:
• [Vineeto]: “(…). Further it was obvious for me that it would be Richard who would facilitate and trigger my transition into an actual freedom because he was the most obvious person with whom a near-actual intimacy would change into an actual intimacy – simply because Richard had been my guide and mentor for the last 13 years and particularly so for the period since I stepped out-from-control. As I have written to No. 5 recently –
‘The final clue was again about caring, a caring as close to an actual caring as an identity can muster. Only when I cared enough to give all of ‘me’ to another person, to give them what they want most, was I then ready to give it to the one I cared for most, the one I was closest to, and then I was able to leave all remnant concerns and inhibitions of my identity behind.
And that’s what happened”. (Direct Route, No. 20, 20 Jan 2010).
I am aware that you care deeply about your fellow human beings, yet this might presently being overlaid by “I also felt and experienced a deep pang of like “Ahh I just want to have done it already and gotten it over with!!” A rare admission of a tenuous yet still cunning ‘me’.
Claudiu: Oh there was one part of it that was very strange. Not sure what to make of it. While climbing up a rock wall I experienced it as two “me” being active at the same time. There was the actual me that was climbing up the wall and having a blast and being aware of being the actual me. And then there was this sort of seemingly-faux inchoate identity-me which was wondering about whether it was actual freedom and what happened.
It was like two “I” were simultaneously active at the same time. It was a bit jarring and rather strange. But also the experience could smoothly adjust to being one I or the other, depending on what “I” (but which I??) would focus on or go towards.
I thought at the time maybe it was how being newly free is experienced and this was the guardian or something, remnants of identity like this. Now I’m not sure what it was, I wasn’t actually free so it definitely wasn’t that. But it wasn’t a PCE because the feeling-being me was apparently there… but I don’t think I was mistaken about the experience of the actual me being apperceptively aware of myself. But I’m not sure how that can be since it wasn’t a PCE.
It is very strange and not sure what to make of it, but thought I’d report it and see if Vineeto has any feedback
Either way now that things have normalized the path forward is clear again !
Hi Claudiu,
This is fascinating. You can clearly see that “it wasn’t a PCE”. In a PCE ‘I’ am in abeyance, in remission, in suspension, absent, not there at all. Hence you reporting there were “Two “me” being active at the same time” cannot be true (because actuality is only experienced in a definite PCE) but most likely rather a clever life-like mirage of your tenuous yet still cunning ‘me’ in order to divert your attention.
Ha, it is an indication that the diversion tactics are getting more and more desperate, sailing so close to the wind!
See, as a result you went on a short exploration that “maybe it was how being newly free is experienced and this was the guardian or something”, wrote a message on the forum and reported that “things have normalized”, and hence forgot about the very informative “deep pang of like “Ahh I just want to have done it already and gotten it over with!!”
For information, at the moment of becoming actually free, the full actual freedom is experienced without any restrictions. Several people have reported this and it is my own experience as well. The shadowy remnants of the social identity only start to conglomerate some time afterwards, eventually forming themselves into a more-or-less solid social identity (aka guardian), usually due to interactions with feeling beings.
And yet this diversional contemplation plus your “deep pang” are indicators that ‘me’ is not yet ready to willingly and gladly abdicate the throne – ‘I’ only admit that “I just want to have done it already and gotten it over with!!” That is still short of “all of ‘me’ on board” as I called it. It is not yet sufficient motivation for decisive and irreversible action.
The repetition was helpful here! I looked into it more and there was indeed more to it, that part of me that admitted that. My initial contemplation that it was silly, was correct, but not that it was resolved, it was not!
It was even more cunning than I thought. So, I saw it was not sincere. ‘Me’ castigating or trying to get another part of ‘me’ to self-immolate, is not sincere, because the implicit presumption in that is… that the ‘castigating’ part is superior, and will remain! So it’s not that I just want to self-immolate, it was really (once the cunning is taken out and made explicit) that I want to fool myself into thinking I self-immolated, so that I (the cunning part) can continue existing (albeit an illusory ‘real’ existence, not an actual one) and not be under scrutiny anymore!
Very remarkably cunning!
I dug into it more and found a, or maybe the, core part of me, which basically amounts to ‘me’ being ultimately superior! Like I place myself above everyone and everything else, I am the most important thing to myself. Richard was right when he said that ‘I’ am what ‘I’ hold most dear. I don’t think this is even a superiority complex, I think it is just how the human psyche is set up.
And now that I let myself feel and see this, I was wondering how to get this part of me fully on board with self-immolating? I couldn’t figure it out. I made a big breakthrough when I was thinking about how it’s a choice, between continuing to be that ‘me’ that feels to be so superior and central to everything, or the purity and perfection, and continuing to be ‘me’ is choosing ‘me’ and rejecting the perfection, and… it just instantly became shockingly funny at how bad a choice that was! Haha. Like “Wow that is a really bad choice”.
And as I thought it out more, it’s that it would be a bad choice because I so obviously am not perfect, am far from it. This belief that I am superior, is a belief, the facts show otherwise, readily and easily so, with many examples.
So I am contemplating on how the purity and perfection of the actual world is far superior to ‘me’.
I haven’t fully resolved it yet, but this appears to be a big one! What I also realized is that I think the part of ‘me’ that I was feeling coming up after that shift, is the part of me that is wanting to prevent self-immolation! And I saw that the part of me always ruminating and wondering how to proceed, there is a genuine, out-from-control aspect of that that happens, but then there’s a sort of ‘central-feeling’ one where ‘I’ am wondering about it, and this actually appears to not be sincere! It is related to the part of ‘me’ that’s looking to prevent self-immolation! Preventing self-immolation while pretending to be wondering how to proceed haha. Very tricky indeed.
And when I saw this I was a bit flummoxed and at a loss, like, how do I proceed if this part of me I thought was helping is actually hindering? But the answer came soon, which is that I found that when I minimized and didn’t fuel the insincere part, I found progress happening anyway, continuing to make genuine progress and sincerely contemplating. In other words, I am drawn to a flame, and this part of ‘me’ i thought I needed, actually is just hindering now (and maybe always was? or maybe was helpful at some point. not really sure)
Vineeto: And yet this diversional contemplation plus your “deep pang” are indicators that ‘me’ is not yet ready to willingly and gladly abdicate the throne – ‘I’ only admit that “I just want to have done it already and gotten it over with!!” That is still short of “all of ‘me’ on board” as I called it. It is not yet sufficient motivation for decisive and irreversible action.
Claudiu: The repetition was helpful here! I looked into it more and there was indeed more to it, that part of me that admitted that. My initial contemplation that it was silly, was correct, but not that it was resolved, it was not!
It was even more cunning than I thought. So, I saw it was not sincere. ‘Me’ castigating or trying to get another part of ‘me’ to self-immolate, is not sincere, because the implicit presumption in that is… that the ‘castigating’ part is superior, and will remain! So it’s not that I just want to self-immolate, it was really (once the cunning is taken out and made explicit) that I want to fool myself into thinking I self-immolated, so that I (the cunning part) can continue existing (albeit an illusory ‘real’ existence, not an actual one) and not be under scrutiny anymore!
Very remarkably cunning!
Perhaps it would make the (already fruitful) investigation easier, if you don’t split yourself into parts – cunning, sincere, deceiving, castigating, etc – but see ‘you’ as a whole, as in ‘I’ am (all) ‘my’ feelings and ‘my’ feelings are ‘me’. And then there is pure intent, “a palpable life-force; an actually occurring stream of benevolence and benignity that originates in the vast and utter stillness that is the essential character of the universe itself. Once set in motion, it is no longer a matter of choice: it is an irresistible pull’.”
‘I’ will fight for ‘my’ survival as long as ‘I’ exist – until ‘I’ cannot help but giving up ‘my’ ghost, which is only supported by ‘my’ addiction to being ‘me’ –
RESPONDENT:Upon looking at it further it appears that I am addicted to ‘me’ (suffering) but that I am also addicted to the escapes from the ‘me’. RICHARD: Okay … is the addiction to being ‘me’ stronger than the addiction to escaping from being ‘me’?
I only ask because if the addiction to being ‘me’ is the more powerful addiction then successful escape is the last thing ‘I’ am looking for (and thus ‘I’ will keep on re-treading the known path, the familiar path, the path that does not deliver the goods).
Whereas if the addiction to escaping is the more powerful addiction then successful escape can (and will) happen. (Richard, List B, No. 39b, 1 Nov 2002)
RESPONDENT:You are making a distinction between ‘I/me’ eliminating itself and it being done altruistically. RICHARD: No, I am more making the point that only altruism – self-sacrificial humanitarianism – will provide the enormous energy necessary for ‘self’-immolation … the instinct for individual survival is only exceeded by the instinct for group survival. It takes a powerful instinct to overcome a powerful instinct. RESPONDENT:I understand this intellectually but I don’t really feel it. If ‘I’ do it for this body it will help everybody but it feels like I want to do it for selfish reasons. You seem to be saying that it can only be done altruistically and I don’t feel altruistic about it. RICHARD: Properly speaking the word ‘altruistic’ is not a word for a feeling but a word for behaviour or action that benefits others at the expense of self (altruism is the very antithesis of selfism), such as fighting to the death to protect the young, defend the group or secure the territory, and as such could evoke any number of feelings … such as fear, thrill, courage, excitement, exhilaration, euphoria and so on. (Richard, List B, No. 39b, 1 Nov 2002a)
Claudiu: I dug into it more and found a, or maybe the, core part of me, which basically amounts to ‘me’ being ultimately superior! Like I place myself above everyone and everything else, I am the most important thing to myself. Richard was right when he said that ‘I’ am what ‘I’ hold most dear. I don’t think this is even a superiority complex, I think it is just how the human psyche is set up.
And now that I let myself feel and see this, I was wondering how to get this part of me fully on board with self-immolating? I couldn’t figure it out. I made a big breakthrough when I was thinking about how it’s a choice, between continuing to be that ‘me’ that feels to be so superior and central to everything, or the purity and perfection, and continuing to be ‘me’ is choosing ‘me’ and rejecting the perfection, and… it just instantly became shockingly funny at how bad a choice that was! Haha. Like “Wow that is a really bad choice”.
Ha, that is a great find and yes, this is “how the human psyche is set up”. There is nothing like finding the ridiculousness of a conviction to destroy its credibility.
Yet sorting out what is silly and what is sensible cannot be your only tool because ‘I’, “a lost, lonely, frightened and very, very cunning entity” fighting for ‘my’ survival am able to create untold amounts of puzzles for ‘me’ to sort out (ask Kuba). Something which can exceed the fighting for ‘your’ survival is required, and the only action, which can do this needs be galvanized by “the instinct for group survival” (see Richard’s quote above).
Claudiu: And as I thought it out more, it’s that it would be a bad choice because I so obviously am not perfect, am far from it. This belief that I am superior, is a belief, the facts show otherwise, readily and easily so, with many examples.
So I am contemplating on how the purity and perfection of the actual world is far superior to ‘me’.
I haven’t fully resolved it yet, but this appears to be a big one! What I also realized is that I think the part of ‘me’ that I was feeling coming up after that shift, is the part of me that is wanting to prevent self-immolation! And I saw that the part of me always ruminating and wondering how to proceed, there is a genuine, out-from-control aspect of that that happens, but then there’s a sort of ‘central-feeling’ one where ‘I’ am wondering about it, and this actually appears to not be sincere! It is related to the part of ‘me’ that’s looking to prevent self-immolation! Preventing self-immolation while pretending to be wondering how to proceed haha. Very tricky indeed.
Isn’t it amazing and wonderful how sincere contemplation will reveal the short-comings and trickiness of the instinctual identity compared to the purity of actuality, which you know by experience delivers the longed-for peace-on-earth –
Geoffrey: “I realised that I would indeed gladly die right now, gladly give away all I am, all I ever was, all I’ve done and felt since I was born, for peace-on-earth to be apparent (not even for me but) for everybody.” [emphasis added]. (link)
Claudiu: And when I saw this I was a bit flummoxed and at a loss, like, how do I proceed if this part of me I thought was helping is actually hindering? But the answer came soon, which is that I found that when I minimized and didn’t fuel the insincere part, I found progress happening anyway, continuing to make genuine progress and sincerely contemplating. In other words, I am drawn to a flame, and this part of ‘me’ I thought I needed, actually is just hindering now (and maybe always was? or maybe was helpful at some point. not really sure).
Ha, ‘Vineeto’ after discovering each of ‘her’ tricks called them “another furphy”, nowadays they are politely called “misinformation”. It’s very useful to find out that your supposed ‘ally’ is actually your opponent in disguise.
Claudiu: Anyway this is where things are at the moment!
I much appreciate your detailed account, which can also be very instructive to plum the depth of cunningness for those who are ready to inquire into their own psyche. Viz:
Richard: Wherever there be no underestimating the extent to which a lost, lonely, frightened and very, very cunning feeling-being will go in order to remain affectively-psychically in existence – millions upon millions of years of blind nature’s successful perpetuation of the species via its rough-and-ready instinctual survival passions blindly dictates no other course of action can ever instinctually come about – is where there be far less likelihood of ascribing to nescience that which quite properly has its roots in the visceral wiliness of the wild which has so successfully proliferated the species thus far.
It is no-one’s fault if they be more cunning – more instinctively wily – than the norm as it is genetic inheritance which determines the degree to which instinctual drives, urges, impulses, appetites, and all the rest, are operating.
_
’Tis no little thing what we are doing here on this forum – the implications and ramifications stemming from actively participating in this pioneering enterprise are truly enormous – and I am well-pleased to see the vitalising pioneer-spirit, which has brought the human race thus far, is not only still alive and well but, arguably, operating and functioning even better than ever! (Richard, List D, Alan, Footnote)
The insight that when I am anxiously fretting and ruminating on how to proceed to self-immolation, is actually me actively preventing and resisting to self-immolation, is bearing fruit and continues to be confirmed as correct.
(Also it was very helpful to stop thinking of it as parts of me and just own up to the fact that it is all me haha, ty @Vineeto).
It took some time to accept it as it is such a familiar part of me. But, for example, I could not deny that when I was gathering up the rope after climbing a route, and the world was suddenly seen to be actually drenched in perfection and purity, with unimaginably vibrant colors, the rope slithering perfectly into the bag as the hands deftly manipulate it – that no amount of anxious rumination before that actually led to that, and the anxious rumination happening afterwards was clearly not that, and would not lead back to that.
Shortly after the above I wondered, then, what am I to do with all this energy that I am used to using on anxious rumination? And I realized – I could be sensuous! I can use the energy for sensuousness, instead. And so I proceeded to naively be sensous and I saw that I could always be sensuous, because actuality is already always happening anyway – so sensuousness is always possible to be an ‘activity’ that one does, so to speak.
And the benefit was immediately tangible – everything shone into perfect clarity and richness, and it was immensely wondrous and enjoyable to boot!
It led to experiencing such a remarkable and out-of-this-world actuality later whilst driving the car during the golden hour shortly before sunset. All of experience, 100% of it, was unimaginably rich and pure. Everything was happening effortlessly and even the slightest motion or adjustment of the steering wheel was a delight to experience. I literally could not believe how pure and rich experience was… and perfect! The words ran through my head “I can’t believe this is real life” .
There is no doubt at all that what I am aiming for is a life to be experienced like that, 24/7, every second of every minute of the day. And no doubt that this is eminently achievable – because actuality is already like that. That is what is already happening, so no effort is needed to produce it. It is accessible at any time, 24/7, because that is how the universe is already functioning. So there is no need to ‘wait’ for it to start doing that, or get the conditions ‘right’, because it’s already happening. All I need to do is allow it to happen.
As I got more tired driving, the experience ended, and I was thrown into an anxiety stronger than I’ve felt in a long while. I didn’t know what to do – trying to be sensuous at that point, was not working anymore. I saw it was a habit but didn’t know how to stop it. It seemed like I was stuck.
I had already recognized earlier that the only actual reliable guiding light that is possible is pure intent. Any relying on ‘me’, on that ruminating me or any other ‘me’, will not work and is not reliable, will not lead me right. But pure intent will. However, pure intent seemed far out of reach, so I was at a loss.
I realized the feeling was similar to what I used to call my experience when I was meditating, a particular phase of it that was called “Desire for Deliverance”. This was supposed to be near the end of a ‘Dark Night of the Soul’ period where the despair increases so much that you just want ‘out’ of it. And of course the meditative answer was essentially to dig yourself deeper into the pit, keep insisting and reinforcing that life is suffering and no self exists, and eventually it gets worse until you ‘break’ and manage to fully dissociate from it all in a phase of Equanimity.
Needless to say I did not want to do that – however I realized something quite funny about it. “Desire for Deliverance” is a very fancy-sounding and lofty phrase, but really what I was actually feeling was simply a desire for “the anxiety” to stop. Once I decontextualized it from some allegedly Noble (but actually Rotten) Spiritual Path, I saw it was a normal human emotion – and that I was already dissociating! Because I had labeled “the anxiety” as something outside of ‘me’ that is happening to ‘me’ that ‘I’ can do nothing about. But really, I was just being anxious!
So rather than try to stop “the anxiety” I reflected on the reality that I was being anxious. Then the next obvious question was: what am I feeling anxious about? And I saw that I was feeling anxious about being uncertain about how to continue towards self-immolation. And that the wondrous and amazingly rich, still, perfect, and rock-solid experience of driving, amounted to showing me that I had been doing it wrong the entire time, by conflating me anxiously ruminating with me making genuine progress towards self-immolation, when in fact it was the opposite!
Just seeing and accepting this was enough for me to stop spinning in anxiety. I reflected on how even if that is completely true and I have been doing it completely wrong, it is ok, it is not “wrong” and nothing to worry about, because now I am on the sensible path, the correct path. And there’s no need to continue doing something wrong just because I did it wrong in the past! That would be really silly.
It was remarkable how much more sensible that approach was than the Spiritual Bypassing approach of just insisting that life is complete suffering, it all sucks, nothing lasts, there is no self anyway and I just have to accept it to transcend it all haha. Instead of all that, I was able to get back to feeling good rather rapidly. I do think that the “Dark Night of the Soul” of the modern-day ‘pragmatic dharma’ movement, probably has nothing to do with whatever it might have meant in Christian or the original Buddhist context, but is just the normal progression of normal human feelings when one is actively trying to suppress and dissociate and drive oneself crazy like all get-out. Kids, don’t do Vipassana Meditation!
With these recent experiences and insights having happened… … onwards!
As a long-time Vipassana practitioner, I cannot but completely endorse your advice, and greatly appreciate having the opportunity to read your progress reports!
Claudiu: The insight that when I am anxiously fretting and ruminating on how to proceed to self-immolation, is actually me actively preventing and resisting to self-immolation, is bearing fruit and continues to be confirmed as correct.
This is excellent and your consequent outstanding experiences confirmed this insight.
As I understand the process you described, pure intent was at one point temporarily out of reach “because I had labelled “the anxiety” as something outside of ‘me’” and kept in place by dissociation. By recognizing this you could experience it directly as “just being anxious!”
Claudiu: So rather than try to stop “the anxiety” I reflected on the reality that I was being anxious. Then the next obvious question was: what am I feeling anxious about? And I saw that I was feeling anxious about being uncertain about how to continue towards self-immolation. And that the wondrous and amazingly rich, still, perfect, and rock-solid experience of driving, amounted to showing me that I had been doing it wrong the entire time, by conflating me anxiously ruminating with me making genuine progress towards self-immolation, when in fact it was the opposite!
Just seeing and accepting this was enough for me to stop spinning in anxiety.
One thing is clear from your report in this post that whatever rumination causes anxiety cannot produce a useful guide to self-immolation, it can only lead you away from it. I wonder if there is more to this anxiety than “being uncertain about how to continue towards self-immolation” because this cause for anxiety has now clearly been exposed as a ‘furphy’, a red herring, a strawman.
Whereas being anxious about giving up “what ‘I’ hold most dear” is not so easily recognized as silly (even if that were the answer to “what am I feeling anxious about?”) because “what ‘I’ hold most dear” is all ‘I’ consist of, is all that keeps ‘me’ in place, and ‘my’ entire existence depends on being held dear. I know, it sounds tautological because it is.
Wouldn’t it be fascinating to inquire what this anxiety is, in and of itself, what is its nature (not only what it is about)? I’m asking because you can use the very energy of a passionate feeling, seeing it operating at ‘your’ core, such as fear (when shifting to the thrilling aspect) to catapult you into the third alternative, permanently. (link, footnote 1)
I am not saying it is the way, or the only way, or that it is necessary, because everyone has a different way of arriving here in the actual world. I just noticed that it has been a recurring theme for you in various forms, and why not pull it out at its roots if/when it pops up again.
Claudiu: With these recent experiences and insights having happened… … onwards!
What I am getting from this is perhaps just as ‘my’ trusted tool of “creating meticulously laid out territory” which got ‘me’ thus far cannot take ‘me’ all the way to self-immolation, in fact it can become a distraction. In the same way ‘Claudiu’s’ trusted tool of resolving things by seeing what is silly and what is sensible has reached it’s limit.
Those tools were useful for the ongoing application of the method but they cannot end ‘me’, it seems something deeply experiential is needed in order to end ‘me’. It’s like ‘I’ have to go on this adventure which ultimately only exists in ‘my’ reality and is not actual, but nevertheless the adventure must be had, like Richard wrote the drama must be played out to it’s conclusion.
I remember Srinath comparing Spirituality to Actualism by using a TV analogy, he wrote that Spirituality is like focusing on the pixels of the TV and convincing oneself that it is therefore not real, whereas Actualism is becoming completely involved in this TV drama playing out all the way to it’s conclusion. ‘I’ am an illusion and yet ‘I’ must die an illusory death.
By using silly vs sensible / creating meticulously laid out territory ‘I’ can certainly resolve an obstruction to enjoyment and appreciation but ‘I’ will remain.
This prospect of ‘me’ going on a grand adventure that ends ‘me’ is quite thrilling actually! Better than any games I can play on the xbox
Well it’s interesting that this didn’t make it into my earlier report, but I actually had a distinct sense at the time that the sudden anxiety was a reaction to that most stable, pristine, profound and rich PCE that I had ever had.
In other words, the anxiety was really about confronting the ending of ‘me’.
I think Kuba got it right – I remember thinking precisely that this me that had gotten me up to this point, that, too, will have to go! So the anxiety manifested mostly from the point of view of that part of me, if I could put it that way. But really it is about the ending of ‘me’, as Vineeto said, giving up what ‘I’ hold as most dear.
Ever since that profound and remarkable PCE, things are markedly different. It was just so astoundingly crystal clear, with no room for any doubt whatsoever, that that was perfection, that it is always available, and that that is what I want, how I want life to be. Before that experience I wouldn’t really be able to say what being actually free would be like, I had no referent to really point that to. But that experience showed me clearly how it would be, with no problem whatsoever, because it was so thorough and clear. I understand that actual freedom itself will be different than that since it was still a temporary experience, but it was enough for me to not have any doubt anymore.
So now instead of me trying to get myself to go towards self-immolation, which is how I got to that point (and it was very effective apparently!), it is more about whatever obstacles I have that remain, getting out of the way for it to happen, definitively. And it is clear now, clearer than ever before in fact, that all of me will have to go.
But the change is palpable. Now with most things that I would think or feel of doing, that I’d normally get caught up in and put energy in, it’s like a “oh why would I get caught up in that? I want to self-immolate instead”
And what remains that I do get caught up in, I’m seeing it is more out of familiarity than anything else… … all seems very promising!!
Now it is my turn to have dreamt that I did it, haha
While falling asleep last night, after I wrote my contemplating-infinitude message, I was in a really remarkable state of wide-eyed wonder and appreciation. The hypnagogic state was quite interesting, I experienced weirdnesses of like multiple ‘me’ each agreeing to self-immolate and then cycling in to the next ‘me’. Compared to the rock-solid rich PCE, it was not like it at all and so I know not to put too much stock in it, but at one point I had the experience like “Ah it is happening!” and I fully agreed to it – but then the part of ‘me’ that agreed still remained after ‘it’ happened, so I knew it was not the real thing.
Then when actually asleep I had the dream again with the nightmarish physical sensations growing in cacophonic intenseness (see Claudiu's Journal - #272 by claudiu), but this time I succeeded in going to the “other side” of it. I was no longer resisting it, and I had the distinct sense that I got to the other side of it. In the dream I likened it to Richard’s 30-months of excruciating neuronal-agitation – moving around in the bed (in my dream), everything I touched was shockingly excruciating, and yet, “ok” at the same time, I was not in physical danger. I don’t know whether this has anything to do with actual freedom per se (just because in the dream I thought it was like something newly-free Richard experienced, does not mean it has anything to do with it), but I took it as a good sign that I am no longer afraid to go forth, whatever may come.
So now it really just seems to be a matter of allowing it to happen, letting the universe “take over” completely, being completely ok with abdicating myself in my entirety. One shocking insight was that I saw one of the last-minute reluctances was that I would be so different from everyone else, who am I to say that this is the way to go? And I saw that this question stemmed from a reliance on doing what other people think and feel is right to do, what the communal “Wisdom” is. Yet that wisdom is totally rotten! The etiology of it is very clear, too: you’re born into this world, not knowing anything. Other people tell you what they think is best. You do it, and see that it is sorely lacking, of course it is, this is obvious. You figure you must be doing it wrong, so you confer with other people and see that you are correctly doing what they told you to do – and that they just agree it sucks but that there’s no other way! Eventually you accept it and don’t even try to buck the trend, and you try to prevent others from escaping too! But all based on what? It’s just utter silliness, literally a “well I can’t do it cause the other guy wouldn’t think it’s a good idea”, repeated ad infinitum in a carousel of madness.
The other thing was thinking about Twitter/X, how there’s all these hot takes, and interesting topics there, I always find it remarkably engaging and interesting to read what’s on there – but none of it will lead to actual freedom! It’s all firmly within the human condition, no one is even trying because they don’t know lol. And this is not even to rate it all as “worthless”, or anything like that. It’s indeed interesting to learn this fact or this idea about how such and such trend in media has evolved, for example. The purpose of that post is not to free oneself from the human condition, so one cannot even fault it for that. But it’s just that even with the half a billion Twitter users, that entire force of concentrated relentless flood and torrent of information, not a drop of it anywhere will lead to the actual world.
Another core thread that appears to be key and is running through these contemplations, is just how sorely lacking I am – and not in a self-flagellating way, but just in a matter-of-fact way. Like ok, I am resisting self-immolating to preserve myself, and what do I do with it? I have a snippet of a tiny exchange with someone else and become mildly peeved. Like, what on earth!!! This is what I am preserving? I can’t even talk with someone without getting a little ruffled? I am so far below what an actual freedom would be like, and there’s simply no way I could be that. If I could be as good as that then I would have been already, but that’s just not my nature. But actually free Claudiu would be, and effortlessly! So indeed it’s a matter of giving myself up so that that which is superior can eventuate.
I feel like any final phrase in the journal entry here would just be hokey so I will leave it here for now
Loving these descriptive insights! This forum is so rad - we are the same thing working on the same problem in independent units, reporting back with more insight and progress to share.
That makes all the sense in the world. Since that is what I will do and be for the rest of my life, according to the reports of those who have taken the step, it is sensible to orient all affective experience towards that same way of being (understanding being as a corporeal, sensorial being), which is what I am choosing definitively, so ‘I’ invite my entire being to get united and oriented in that same direction (that’s to be my best friend) until I agree to be definitively in this perfect universe, which is the one that will give the final push.
I was thrilled to see that I was on the right track – which is indeed indicative of having a good grasp of what I’m doing. But what was injured was my… intellectual pride!!
In other words my intellectual pride was injured, that it took me so long to see something that was so plainly written and so simple. Of course, thinking about it sensibly, it is understandable. The human condition is very weird and tricky and cunning indeed.
But the reaction was valuable to really get this bugger by the throat! I noticed soon after this pride was wounded that I started picturing other topics, projects I wanted to pursue, that I saw the purpose of it would be to redeem this pride, to assert it.
I didn’t really wanna go down that path so I stayed with it. I eventually came to see that intellectual pride/hubris does not actually serve any benefit! All it results in is me avoiding admitting I am wrong when I am wrong, me dismissing people without really listening to them, and lots of little (or big) brushing-up against people in conversations. And it being harder to change my mind about things when faced with new facts. etc. Just lots of downsides. I’m actually having trouble thinking why I was holding on to this pride now
I eventually just saw that it was just a choice of if I want to continue being that way or not! And I decided that no, I don’t want to be. And that appears to have been the end of it haha. It really felt a lot more dramatic at the time but writing it now it sounds so simple.
Now shortly after this I ended up spinning in circles again. I was noticing that I wasn’t enjoying myself so much, and was thinking about the insight about sensuousness and trying to apply it and… I got annoyed! I got annoyed and frustrated that I ‘have’ to do all this.
I asked myself if I wanted to enjoy and delight in being alive and the answer was no (!). But what I did want, without any hesitation, was for me to no longer be malicious, no longer be sorrowful, no longer be hurtful and hurting. This I could clearly see. And I also unequivocally wanted the safety and security of the actual world… and for it to be permanent! I wanted the guarantee and I saw the guarantee can only be gotten by self-immolating.
But I was continuing to get frustrated and spinning out, and suddenly I realize that… I was resenting being alive! I dug into it more and I labeled what I was experiencing as that “basic resentment” that Richard talked about identifying way early on on his path. I was able to compare that feeling of resentment with the superlatively mirificent recent PCE, and … was able to basically just totally reject and get rid of that resentment!
I just re-read what Richard wrote in the process of finding a quote and was amazed as I experienced it basically that same way:
I didn’t remember the detail of this quote when it happened for me, it is like I was figuring out on my own (although of course I had read this quote, many times!)
Soon after this I wondered about the implications of this. Had I really just never gotten rid of that basic resentment? How can I have been so foolish? It’s like written in plain english and has been talked about so much recently. I contemplated a lot about resentment, it’s not like I ignored the topic. But I really get the sense that I only got rid of this basic resentment now.
Is it even possible? Could I have been out-from-control while still having this basic resentment? At this point the words came that I “don’t care about being foolish anymore”. In other words, I was willing to entertain this as possible instead of trying to defend a perceived ‘badge’ or ‘success’ of me being ‘out from control’ and contort what happened to fit some ‘narrative’.
And suddenly it clicked, I would not admitted that so readily and smoothly if that intellectual pride was still in place! I would be trying to defend my pride instead. So perhaps this explains why I was never really able to get rid of that basic resentment before – because I’d have to admit I didn’t, and I would feel foolish (lol).
Incidentally I see now that this basic resentment is what the vipassana meditation relies on, nourishes, feeds and grows, into an ‘absolutely any phenomenological experience sucks actually’. It’s very possible that as I came to actualism from that background and must have read the bits about resentment during that period and thought myself above it or whatever, and that’s why it’s been difficult to dislodge. But it’s just a thought.
Things do feel different now, though. There is a simplicity and peace that is the default now. In the past I always felt like I had to ‘work’ to some degree to stave off spiraling towards feeling bad. But that seems to have ended now. It’s really a lot simpler!
I don’t know about how this combines with being out-from-control. I certainly have not been feeling a low-grade resentment the entire time, far from it. It’s been a wild, fun, wondrous, and scintillating time. Perhaps the way I’d put it is that still there was this habitual tendency to spiral inward, which would overwhelm me at times, but it would not drive me under for a while as it would when not out-from-control, and when out-from-control there was still this baseline of backdrop of purity and that there isn’t really a problem, just another objection to work through. But those objections were rooted in this resentment, perhaps.
I don’t really know, as I said I fear not to look foolish anymore, so I thought I’d just write it out so that people following along can get as much info from it as they can, and do with it what they will. I am sure in hindsight it will be clearest.
There was another big insight yesterday which was relating to silly and sensible. I saw that I could actually do anything I wanted. I could do silly things like lash out, be violent, be upset, spiral around, etc., if I wanted to. However, it is sensible to constrain this total range of possible actions and feeling and ways-of-being, into just that subset which is the sensible one.
It struck me in a really pretty way that essentially this voluntary choosing to limit what I do to just what is sensible, is not in any way putting binds on me or chaining me up or forcing myself to behave in just a limited way (which is the morals approach). Rather it’s just sensible to do it, it makes sense. I could act outside of this range but the consequences and results wouldn’t be good, for me or anyone. So actually it doesn’t make sense.
This helped me to see that becoming free, I would not lose anything of value. Because I would indeed lose the ability to do silly things like feel upset and sorrowful and angry – however, these fall within the already-existing ‘constraint’ (so to speak) of sensibility. So it wouldn’t make sense to be able to do those things anyway.
Putting it together with today it is that being free would be a guarantee that I will only do what is sensible – which is wonderful.
). Something which can exceed the fighting for ‘your’ survival is required, and the only action, which can do this needs be galvanized by “the instinct for group survival” (see Richard’s quote above).
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