Roy's Journal

Journals
61

Roy: Life is already pretty great as it is. But there are times that something happens, and it’s apparent that if I was free from this natural and social conditioning, it would have been different — specially for others: the experience of others you be better if I didn’t behave the way I behaved. That part, being “harmless” is as appealing to me, as being “happy” at this point, I think. (link)

Hi Roy,

I like what you wrote here – I remember ‘Vineeto’ writing about how ‘she’ discovered that feeling harmless was not enough, ‘she’ recognized that ‘she’ wanted to be harmless, not just feel harmless.

VINEETO: The reason I said that there is a remarkable difference between feeling harmless and actually being harmless is because it is easy to assess one’s happiness by checking if I am feeling happy whereas many people may feel themselves to be harmless when they are not experiencing feelings of aggression or anger against somebody. Yet they are nevertheless causing harm via their thoughtless ‘self’-oriented instinctual feelings and actions, something that all human beings are prone to do unless they become fully aware of their instinctual passions before these translate into vibes and/or actions.
It was about a year into my process of actualism when I became aware of how much my outlook on the world and on people had changed in that my cloak of myopic ‘self’-centredness began to lift and I no longer saw the world only ‘my’ way and my judgments and actions no longer revolved around ‘my’ interests, ‘my’ beliefs, ‘my’ ideas, ‘my’ ideals, ‘my’ fears, ‘my’ desires and ‘my’ aversions. Consequently I have learnt to judge harmlessness by the amount of parity and consideration I apply to others whom I come in contact with, both at work and at play, and not by merely feeling myself to be harmless. (…)
I remember well the first evening when I looked at Peter and saw him as just another human being – not as a partner, a mate, a member of the other gender, a lover, a sexual object, a valuable addition to my circle of friends, and not as someone who would approve or disapprove of me – simple another fellow human being. Suddenly the separation I felt was gone and there was a delicious intimacy, as ‘I’ was no longer attempting to force him to fit into ‘my’ world.
I was astounded and shocked by this experience, being outside of my so familiar ‘self’-centred and ‘self-oriented skin, because I realized that never before, not once in our 3-months acquaintance, had I been able, or even interested, to see him as a person in his own right. I was shocked at how all of my perception and consequently all of my interactions were driven by what I wanted, what I expected and what I believed him to be and how much I was therefore constantly at odds with how he actually was.
The reason I am telling this story is because this experience was the beginning of a slow and wide-ranging realization that as long as I live in ‘my’ world – made up of ‘my’ worldview, ‘my’ beliefs, opinions, feelings and survival passions – I cannot help but struggle to fit everyone into ‘my’ world, as actors on the stage of ‘my’ play, so to speak, as family and aliens, as friends and enemies, as ‘good’ people and ‘bad’ people. And not only am ‘I’ busy trying to do this, everyone else – all six billion of us – are equally struggling to fit everyone into ‘their’ world.
It then comes as no surprise that being actually harmless is out of the question – until ‘I’ more and more leave centre-stage, stop resenting being here, stop being stressed, take myself less seriously, take notice of other people the way they are and start enjoying life. (Actualism, Vineeto, AF List, Tarin, 13.8.2006)

Roy: By being harmless you are already helping everyone without being altruistic in the traditional sense. You are harmless if you manage to deconstruct your biological and social conditioning. Once you understand those you realize when you judge people and why you are judging them, when you are mean and why you are being mean, etc… (link)

Yes, being harmless is doubly beneficial, it reduces/ eliminates your harmful actions and simultaneous reduces your harmful vibes which are often more powerfully harmful than the words or actions themselves.

As for “when you judge people” – ‘thou shalt not judge’ is both a Christian adage and common in Eastern spiritual teachings but doesn’t hold up in real life. Judging, i.e. to make appraisals is a necessity in everyday life – the values by which to judge, however, can be harmful or beneficial. Judging both yourself and other by the (conditioned) rules of what is right and wrong, what is good and bad is following the values passed on from long-dead people or God(s) as the ultimate arbiters. Judgement according to sensible and silly, however, is indispensable.

RICHARD: Shall I put it this way (about not being judgmental)? Do you personally:
• Condone rape and child abuse?
• Approve of rape and child abuse?
• Have no opinion about rape and child abuse?
• Disapprove of rape and child abuse?
• Proscribe rape and child abuse?
Is it not simply a fact that one makes appraisals of situations and circumstances each moment again in one’s daily life … this judging is called making a decision regarding personal and communal salubrity. (Richard, List B, No. 42, 12 Nov 2000).

Often such judgements (based on being silly or sensible) can be current appraisals of people or situations, which can change when new facts emerge.

However, when you discover that you were “mean” then your ‘assessment’ was based on your feeling anger, defensiveness, feeling insulted, righteous, hurt, etc., and you can then investigate the underlying feeling.

Roy: For example today I saw a woman with revealing clothes and immediately I became angry. It’s an automatic feeling (which is interesting because I used to think that it started with thoughts). The difference now from before is that I realize what’s going on with me and the feeling stops quickly. (link)

This a good example of a feeling reaction based on a certain conditioned value of ‘thou shalt not wear revealing clothes if you are a female’. Even though the feeling stopped quickly for you it would be interesting to contemplate if the conditioning which set up this ‘rule’ stands in the way of being happy and harmless – just so that it won’t offend you next time it happens.

‘Vineeto’ also discovered in ‘her’ quest of becoming factually/ actually harmless, that it wasn’t enough to investigate and disempower the ‘bad’ emotions and their related conditioning but even more so the ‘good’ emotions. Each ‘good’ feeling has a dark twin underpinning it.

Here is how Richard described how during his enlightenment ‘he’ examined the ‘good’ and particularly the ‘Good’ and given that is was so revered in all societies, it was a mammoth task –

Richard: For eleven years I lived in an Altered State Of Consciousness, so I had plenty of time to examine all its nooks and crannies … and I found much that was murky and dirty lurking around in the outer darkness. (…) I soon found enough to make me start suspecting something very serious was wrong with Spiritual Enlightenment. To start off with was the inescapable fact that I had a ‘Sense Of Mission’ to bring ‘Peace and Love’ to a suffering humanity – I was driven to spread ‘The Word’ and to disseminate ‘The Truth’ – and this imposition did not sit well with me. In my fourth year I started to question the efficacy of Divine Compassion as a means of resolving sorrow once and for all. As a palliative for suffering it was beyond compare – it superseded pity, sympathy and empathy by a mile – but it remained forever a panacea only. Consolation for sorrow, no matter how divine that solace may be, is not a cure that lasts.
In my sixth year I was ready to examine Love Agapé – which up until then had been far to sacred to put under the microscope – and I soon found enough to warrant further investigation. If Divine Compassion had been found to be murky and dirty, I was to go on to discover that Love Agapé was sordid and squalid to the extreme. Just as compassion has its roots in sorrow, so too has love its origin in malice. Hatred is the essential companion to love; the one cannot exist without the other. When I first saw the other face of love I was horrified … for I was in the grip of a ‘Demonic Power’ disguised as ‘Divine Authority’. The diabolical is but the essential sub-stratum for the righteous; the sinister for the good; the fiendish for the glorious; the infernal for the heavenly; the wicked for the charitable … and so on. Love Agapé – which has been touted as the cure-all for the ills of humankind for thousands of years – was hand-in-glove with evil. No wonder that religious wars have beset this planet for aeons, for the central tenet of any religious or spiritual path is love … and love is the very element that will sabotage any well-meant endeavour with its secret agenda. A loving self is still a self, nevertheless. And a self is made out of the sorrow and malice that are generated by the instinctual aggression and fear that humans are born with in order for the species to survive. (…)
In my tenth year I tentatively approached one of the last bastions of spiritual enlightenment: pacifism. Almost all of the other attributes of what I called an ‘Absolute Freedom’ had been stripped away and if I was to undo what is called ‘ahimsa’ in the east – non-violence – then there would not be much left of my precious ‘Peace On Earth’ that I was charged to bring. I found a strong resistance within myself to contemplate letting go of the scriptural adage: ‘Turn the other cheek’ … even though I intellectually considered it to be nonsense. If an entire country held such a belief it would be akin to hanging out a sign saying: ‘Please feel free to invade, we will not fight back’. Also, I personally relied upon the police to protect me and mine from any personal attack or robbery – what if they adopted this principle? By the time I had worked my way through this philosophical dilemma I had to turn my sights upon the last thing that stood between me and an actual freedom. I would have to let go of the deeply ingrained concept of ‘The Good’. For this to happen I would have to eliminate ‘The Bad’ in me, or else I would be likely to go off the rails and run amok. Little did I realise that it was ‘The Good’ that kept ‘The Bad’ in place. I was soon to find this out. (Richard, List B, No. 31, 7 Mar 1998).

Cheers Vineeto

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Thank you, that’s exactly what I meant. I’ll have to read more what is meant by vibes in this context but that’s it — I thought of this in terms of “unintentional harm” that I do and that I wish to be able to stop, because right now I can only realize it after it has happened.

I’m hoping that, with time, I begin moving from the current process of “doing something due to conditioning → realizing it later → feeling good again” to a more effortless situation where the conditioning doesn’t exist as much to begin with. Only then I’ll be able to be both happy and harmless. It is not yet the case, I continue to very much run into the same mistakes.

That makes perfect sense to me now… It took me quite a while to understand this possibility of being considerate of others while treating them as equal, independent and autonomous, peers, fellow human beings. Somehow the two felt incompatible in the past.

Intimacy to me used to mean being exceptionally close to someone in a vulnerable/fragile way, and now it means being fully transparent without worries about what I share / say / how the other person reacts / if they will accept me or not / etc. I guess I didn’t ever had this type of real human connection in the past.

This is very interesting to read as it also resembles exactly what I thought the other day. I can’t move forward in this process if I don’t stop blaming myself and I’m not my own best friend and complain about how things are. Laughing at myself and dropping different sorts of sophistication has also been very useful and freeing recently. And the realization that to become freer I already have to be happy in the first place — the happiness won’t start later on.

That makes a lot of sense, hadn’t thought of how judgment is not necessarily bad and is inevitable for evaluating situations.

It’s very interesting that you say that because the other day I had exactly a situation in my life in which I realized that I should investigate good feelings too. I thought I wouldn’t need to care too much about what is positive, but in fact I need to investigate any disturbing feeling (positive and negative). The situation was that I happened to do something very positive both in my community and at work without even trying and without selfish motivations. It just happened that I had to handle these situations and I handled them very well. And so I was praised and with that came a great feeling of belonging and worthiness. Later however I did something stupid and turns out that it was caused by the inflated ego from earlier. Whenever I let my ego become bigger it ends up affecting my behaviors later on in a negative way. So basically I have to investigate both positive and negative feelings.

Thanks a lot for the time you spent writing this reply! It is very helpful and this forum has become a very important resource for me thanks to many of you here.

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Ah this is one of my favourite things that I read from Richard. When I read it a while back I viscerally experienced what he had discovered - this other face to the Divine which was the Demonic, causing such terror in disguise. It must have been one hell of a discovery to make (sometimes I wish I could paint so that I could create an artwork depicting this) that this Divine Love which was protecting ‘him’ from all harm in the Enlightened state turned out to be a Demon in disguise!

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Roy: Thanks a lot for the time you spent writing this reply! It is very helpful and this forum has become a very important resource for me thanks to many of you here.

Hi Roy,

Thank you for your feedback, and I am delighted that you understand so much of what I explained. It’s a lot to take in and even more to digest. I much appreciate your response. Just two more points I’d like to comment on.

Roy: Intimacy to me used to mean being exceptionally close to someone in a vulnerable/fragile way, and now it means being fully transparent without worries about what I share / say / how the other person reacts / if they will accept me or not / etc. I guess I didn’t ever had this type of real human connection in the past.

An actual intimacy is indeed happening with everyone and everything “being fully transparent” and, of course “without worries” of any kind. This is part and parcel of not being ‘self’-centred and without any ‘self’ whatsoever, and one is therefore benevolent, equitable and considerate.

The more one is virtually happy and virtually harmless, the more intimacy with fellow human beings and the world around you is possible. When pure intent is dedicatory in place (“as an overriding/ overarching life-devotional goal which takes absolute precedence over all else”), then you can be “fully transparent without” and be more and more confidently harmless. Until this happens it is still advisable to take into account that you, and everyone else, is a feeling being with whatever this entails.

Maybe you had already implied all that when you wrote the above paragraph. I am just being careful remembering ‘Vineeto’s’ own experiences when ‘her’ confidence in having successfully dismantled some of ‘her’ social identity sometimes translated into impulsive actions, which were anything but beneficial … ‘oops’.

Vineeto: ‘Vineeto’ also discovered in ‘her’ quest of becoming factually/ actually harmless, that it wasn’t enough to investigate and disempower the ‘bad’ emotions and their related conditioning but even more so the ‘good’ emotions . Each ‘good’ feeling has a dark twin underpinning it.

Roy: It’s very interesting that you say that because the other day I had exactly a situation in my life in which I realized that I should investigate good feelings too. I thought I wouldn’t need to care too much about what is positive, but in fact I need to investigate any disturbing feeling (positive and negative). The situation was that I happened to do something very positive both in my community and at work without even trying and without selfish motivations. It just happened that I had to handle these situations and I handled them very well. And so I was praised and with that came a great feeling of belonging and worthiness. Later however I did something stupid and turns out that it was caused by the inflated ego from earlier. Whenever I let my ego become bigger it ends up affecting my behaviors later on in a negative way. So basically I have to investigate both positive and negative feelings. (link)

That is great discovery you made.

However, there is far more to the “negative” side of ‘good’ feelings than inflation of the ego. By calling ‘good’ feelings (such as love and compassion) “what is positive” you may have missed the issue of what ‘good’ feelings and their dark twin are. The reason for the long quote from Richard at the end of my last post was to give you some material to contemplate when you have the time and inclination. ‘Good’ feelings are just as passionate as ‘bad’ feelings, arising from the same instinctual passions, ‘me’ at the core of my being, and hence equally rotten at the core.

Richard: … Little did I realise that it was ‘The Good’ that kept ‘The Bad’ in place. I was soon to find this out. (Richard, List B, No. 31, 7 Mar 1998).

Cheers Vineeto

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I see, thank you that makes sense.

I think I get this intellectually but maybe I will only fully grasp how important it is experientially someday. I get the need to comprehend a concept and its opposite. So for example like Richard mentioned, I understand hatred because I also understand love, in contrast, and “one cannot exist without the other”.

Maybe related to this… I also get that feelings are interpreted by me as good/positive or bad/negative — for me. So for example, I may feel discomfort in the gut due to feeling anxious and I label that as bad/negative. On the other hand, in a different situation, I may feel discomfort in the gut due to feeling excited and I label that as good/positive. And the physical sensation is exactly the same. Not sure if you would consider anxiety/excitement as twins.

And controlling one’s attitude towards them does nothing to stop the other picking up on one’s vibes (to use a 60’s term). If one has the slightest trace of malice or sorrow toward the other, the prevailing wisdom is to be loving or compassionate … yet it does not work in practice. This is because there is a psychic connection between humans who have feelings.

Modifying one’s negative feelings toward the other by coating them with positive feelings may fool some people for some of the time. Usually, however, one is only fooling oneself, because the positive is born out of the negative. Without the negative feelings there are no positive feelings. No feelings at all means one is happy and harmless and the other leaves one alone … which does away with the need for that dubious remedy of pacifism (non-violence).

— Richard [source]

Interestingly I did some research and once more the concept of “vibes” shows up. I looked around on the site and still don’t understand what it refers to in the context of actuality, but I have to read more. For me vibes are in the same bucket of auras and crystals :sweat_smile:

EDIT:

Regarding the vibes, I used to believe in vibes. For example: “I don’t trust this person, because he is giving me negative/weird vibes”. But eventually I realized it was just prejudice. For eg, there was this one person I felt negativity towards and one day I was reminded of someone else, from my youth, that looked similar. I think now that somehow, unconsciously, this was the cause for my distrust.

Similarly, I used to believe in psychic connections. One time I had a panic attack out of the blue and later learned that a person dear to me had died at precisely that time. And so I connected the two. But nowadays I simply think this was a weird coincidence.

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Roy: I think I get this intellectually but maybe I will only fully grasp how important it is experientially someday. I get the need to comprehend a concept and its opposite. So for example like Richard mentioned, I understand hatred because I also understand love, in contrast, and “one cannot exist without the other”.

Hi Roy,

This is exactly how it is intended to be. Richard’s reports and explanations are an invitation to induce contemplation and investigation to find out experientially how the human condition works in you and by extension in everyone. And once you find out for yourself, his words are a confirmation that you are not crazy – because almost everyone else follows the legacy/ beliefs of long dead people despite detrimental results.

Roy: Maybe related to this… I also get that feelings are interpreted by me as good/positive or bad/negative — for me. So for example, I may feel discomfort in the gut due to feeling anxious and I label that as bad/negative. On the other hand, in a different situation, I may feel discomfort in the gut due to feeling excited and I label that as good/positive. And the physical sensation is exactly the same. Not sure if you would consider anxiety/excitement as twins.

Every feeling/passion has a hedonic tone (Richard, Abditorium, Hedonic Tone). Hence it feels good to feel good, it feels bad to feel sad. This hedonic tone underpins every feeling-thought-action and is generally taken as the main arbiter of everything from philosophy to actions (unless conscience/ social identity restricts/controls it).

Richard has written about how fear, particularly existential fear, has always a thrilling aspect –

Richard: Always included in fear is a thrilling aspect, and by focussing upon this and not fear itself, an energy gathers momentum which does the trick for one (thrilling as in an exciting sensation through the body, stirring, stimulating, electrifying, rousing, moving, gripping, hair-raising, riveting, joyful, pleasing, throbbing, trembling, tremulous, quivering, shivering, fluttering, shuddering and vibrating). (Richard, List B, No. 12a, 18 July 1998). The very activity you are engaged in – to explore the depth of your ‘being’ – is a thrilling/exciting adventure, which excitement can overcome the fearful/daring discoveries you make.

Fear and excitement are not twins as in opposites, they are two aspects of the same feeling.

Richard: And controlling one’s attitude towards them does nothing to stop the other picking up on one’s vibes (to use a 60’s term). If one has the slightest trace of malice or sorrow toward the other, the prevailing wisdom is to be loving or compassionate … yet it does not work in practice. This is because there is a psychic connection between humans who have feelings. (link)

Roy: Interestingly I did some research and once more the concept of “vibes” shows up. I looked around on the site and still don’t understand what it refers to in the context of actuality, but I have to read more. For me vibes are in the same bucket of auras and crystals

I understand that presently vibes are merely a concept or belief for you. Most people are not experientially aware of vibes even existing, while some others are quite sensitive to their effect. To start with, you can observe animals responding to you via vibes – if you have a dog for instance, you can observe that it can sense danger for its master not only with their senses but via foreign/ aggressive vibes, it can sense if you are angry or friendly towards them even if you don’t show it via words or body-language. Here is an interesting experiential report from Claudiu –

Claudiu: Animals also are particularly sensitive to vibes. On one occasion I was home alone with the dogs, I got extremely upset and worked myself up into a frenzy, ran into the bedroom and hit the pillows a few times. It was full on anger and rage. And one of the dogs ran into the bedroom and started barking at the wall. Though she may have been triggered by the sound of me hitting the pillows, really what she was responding to was the intense angry vibes that I was (involuntarily) putting out, to the extent that she felt there was an intruder in the house that she had to protect me from (she had no idea that it came from me). And in a sense I was an ‘intruder’ in that moment (though the rage quickly passed). (link) (March 2022).

When I became actually free I was curious about not emanating psychic vibes and I observed how (higher order) wild animals let me approach closer, i.e. not noticing my presence until a sound alerted them. The pet dogs of a client, who used to give ‘Vineeto’ a friendly welcome, took no notice of me after becoming free.

• [Richard]: ‘The colloquialism ‘vibes’ does not refer to body-language but to the affective feelings and gained currency in the ‘sixties (as in ‘I can feel your pain’ or ‘I can feel your anger’ and so on) – even the military are well aware of this as I had it impressed upon me, prior to going to war in my youth, that fear is contagious and can spread like wildfire if unchecked – and another example is being in the presence of an enlightened being (known as ‘Darshan’ in the Indian tradition) so as to be bathed in the overwhelming love and compassion such a being radiates.
Yet behind the feelings lie the psychic energies/ currents which emanate from being itself’. (Richard, AF List, No. 41, 3 Dec 2003, Vibes).

(Richard’s selected correspondence on Vibes and Psychic Currents can give you further information/ explanation for your contemplations.)

Roy: Edit: Regarding the vibes, I used to believe in vibes. For example: “I don’t trust this person, because he is giving me negative/ weird vibes”. But eventually I realized it was just prejudice. For e.g., there was this one person I felt negativity towards and one day I was reminded of someone else, from my youth, that looked similar. I think now that somehow, unconsciously, this was the cause for my distrust.

I guess that you still ‘believe’ in vibes in regards to acting according to your (unconscious) perception of them. But because you believe/think that felt vibes are “just prejudice” (flipping from belief to disbelief) you now notice/remember only what confirms your present concept. You can instead throw out both belief and disbelief and replace it with personal observational evidence you gather.

You may start noticing how you check out approaching strangers psychically from a distance if they are ‘friend’ or ‘foe’ before you are even able to distinguish their facial expression or hear their voice. When I became actually free the first thing I noticed with astonishment that this was no longer operating so much so that at first I was disconcerted how I would be able to function safely in the world of people and events. It quickly turned out to be an unnecessary concern after all, as a freely operating intelligence is perfectly capable of looking after this body.

‘Vineeto’ had long been fascinated by psychic vibes /powers in ‘her’ spiritual years and as such learned to be cautious not to jump to conclusions either way. However, some experiences where so outstandingly obvious when ‘she’ experienced strong negative vibes/currents in several people ‘she’ interacted with at certain situations, it made ‘her’ even more determined to end the psychic ‘being’ in once and for all.

‘Vineeto’: I remember one incident with the woman I had lived and worked with for several years. One day in the office she received a phone call and, being the secretary, I took it, recognized her partner’s voice and transferred it to her into the next room, saying nothing but hello to the man. I didn’t hear the conversation as my door was closed, and just kept working on the daily accounts. From the moment of the call I had fierce pain in my stomach and thoughts of intense fear racing through my head that had nothing to do with my personal situation. After two hours it finally clicked – I went over to ask her if she had a fight with her partner on the phone. She said they did. My pain disappeared immediately. After this incident I investigated what made me so receptive to her vibes and feelings and I came to understand that my feelings of love for her were enough for me to be psychically connected to her fears and pain. (link)

I found another one of ‘Vineeto’s’ observations in 2000 experiencing psychic currents (from a distance of 800+ kms) –

‘Vineeto’: Yesterday I watched the opening ceremony of the Olympic Games [on TV] and found it an excellent example of the psychic web in action. A band of 2000 musicians from all over the world was playing, all nationalities wearing an identical blue-red-beige uniform, everyone marching in exact formations while playing the various national hymns from all over the world. The audience’s spirit was soaring high, cheers and tears, overwhelmed by the feeling of ‘we are all one’, ‘we are the world’, feeling unity, glory, bliss and love. It is amazing how simple methods – heart-stirring music, uniforms and people marching in formations – can cast an effective spell on the collective human psyche.
However, the feeling of ‘unity’ immediately dispersed as soon as the athletes of all the countries started marching into the stadium wearing their national costumes, under individual flags*.* Then the psychic scene changed, the feeling was now of individual national pride. Each nation was now separate from the other and soon each athlete will be competing against the others for the glory of their particular country and for their own personal fame. The feeling of Unity is but a short-lived feeling … the psychic vibe changes readily when the music changes. (link)

I have to add that at this time ‘Vineeto’ was aware enough of ‘her’ own feelings to know what ‘she’ experienced were not ‘her’ own feelings of ‘unity’, ‘we are all one’, bliss and love.

Roy: Similarly, I used to believe in psychic connections. One time I had a panic attack out of the blue and later learned that a person dear to me had died at precisely that time. And so I connected the two. But nowadays I simply think this was a weird coincidence. (link)

There are many reports from people having strong psychic intimations/experiences at the exact time when a loved one died, so that seems to be a common human experience for those sensitive to it. Some time after your own experience your present concept of disbelief in psychic vibes/currents made you think otherwise. Yet you still don’t know what really happens.

For investigations into the human condition it is most conducive when you are able to suspend both belief and disbelief as much as possible. After all, endeavouring to free yourself from the human condition you are engaged into an investigation into the depth of your psyche, i.e. your emotions and passions, and it can be both weird and wonderful.

Cheers Vineeto

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Thank you Vineeto, I have to give this another read but I just wanted to write something here at this moment:

One thing I tried to force me into, months ago, was to have a journal. It was hard to keep this habit and it was a messy process — I started with a public blog, then a notebook, then writing on my phone, then recording audios, while simultaneously still writing some things publicly here in this forum. It helped in two ways: (1) it forced me to closer inspect my current state but (2) the main benefit is that I can now read how about my experiences of months ago. This turns out to be very interesting because apparently (and I already had a sense that this was the case) I tend to transfer my current mood into these past memories. So my current identity would overtake the memories, as if it was fixed and unchanged through time. So just as I thought, I can’t completely trust my memories (in this particular aspect at least).

The most important part is I now can compare the farther away past and the recent past and… it’s amazing how completely different my mood is on a daily basis. It is very very different. I used to be angry, sad and frustrated all the time, in comparison. Even feeling good at the time was not feeling good as it is now.

Yesterday when I was searching a bit more about vibes here in the forum, I found the report from Milito Paz and read his description of his experience. I found it interesting because for me, as up til now, the change in my mood and day-to-day experience, is different from what I had imagined it could be. Because it’s not like I’m feeling on the “top of the world” all of the time. It’s simply a fairly consistent state of feeling good — not in the sense of immense excitement, but in the sense of wide satisfaction and peace, punctuated with minor incidents. It’s not like I have replaced the old deranged rollercoaster with a fairytale-like rollercoaster. It’s more like a beautiful path with some occasional potholes.

And I guess this has been a side-effect of the actualism method. Because I’m working on simply examining my day to day, I stopped spending time imagining “what if’s”. I don’t really focus on what “could be”, because I’m spending the time examining what is or seems to be. And it helps that I’m good at examining — it is something I have been doing all my life — but incorrectly. I was focusing on the wrong things. I was trying all the self-improvements and productivity and self-help advice I could find instead of focusing on what was right in front of me: how I’m really experiencing this moment, and why?

In conclusion, I’ll continue and try to catch myself whenever I contemplate (which happens occasionally) things like “Oh wouldn’t it be great if I could trigger PCEs?” “Oh wouldn’t it be great if I could get rid of my ‘self’?” etc… and simply focus on investigating how I’m experiencing the moment. In the past, situations have happened where I tried to get something really hard and was unable, just to later stop chasing it and have it drop on my lap. Maybe that’ll happen this time? We’ll see :sunglasses: :disguised_face:

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Just to add something: I know that this is “serious business” — we are talking about our lives and people in the world are depressed and commit suicide (unfortunately I was confronted with such a situation this year). I don’t want to be inconsiderate or dismiss that, even though it’s not really something I can change or should want to change, and I don’t gain anything with being empathetic or co-suffer as it is throughly explained in the site…

But personally, my problems are, in retrospect, very much very silly — all the time. It’s laughable and funny how silly they are, really. I’ll go from not feeling good, to inspecting and going (most of time) “oh silly you!”.

I have a 3 year-old daughter and she gets upset about the silliest things. But I realize now that my problems are not that different to be honest. And what I can learn from her is that, she may be super angry or sad and, in an instant, she completely changes her mood. And even more: she holds no grudges/resentment. I think I’m the one that needs to learn from her. Not the other way around :joy:

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This sounds like some really good progress! I always had a similar approach to what you describe, in that it made sense to start with where I am and progressively become more happy and harmless in my day to day life. What good would it be to chase after a PCE if I wasn’t even able to sustain feeling good for any significant amount of time. Then the PCE would become like an escape, a hope for something to take me out of suffering rather than improving my lot now. And even if by some luck the PCE happened, then what? ‘I’ would still be the grumpy old ‘me’ when ‘I’ return.

It took me about 6 months of consistently applying the method before a PCE happened, and looking back it all happened exactly as it should have. The grumpy ‘me’ that was up until then had to first of all allow that life was not a vale of tears, ‘he’ had to find out that it is possible to enjoy and appreciate this moment of being alive. As the application of the method continued to bear fruit ‘I’ began to get intimations of something even more, eventually ‘I’ spontaneously went into abeyance and a PCE happened, the first one I had as a practicing actualist.

But the PCE was not the sole focus, it was more like a by-product/sign that ‘I’ was heading in the right direction. It was always clear to ‘me’ that sooner or later ‘I’ would be back to ‘normal’, then the process of changing ‘myself’ and eventually ending ‘myself’ would re-commence. Furthermore that process was always understood to be where it is at with actualism, the main event.

It seems this practical, down to earth aspect of actualism has clicked seamlessly for you and of course now it is bearing fruit!

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Haha yes I also took it to be a rather “serious business” up until recently, rather it is an utterly sincere business.

This seeing of the utter silliness of what ‘I’ and ‘humanity’ are doing (and have been doing for so long) was the undoing of ‘Geoffrey’, but it was more funny than serious! Geoffrey - Report of Becoming Free :

Later on the way back, I was thinking about this ‘precious’ thing, how only here on this tiny planet right now there are 7 billion people just as ‘unique’ and ‘precious’ as my self, when it clicked… and I burst into laughter. This was simply hilarious. Everybody is so precious. I must then be SO precious hahaha.

Every little ‘me’ waging wars against other little ‘me’ because they are so precious. Whereas they are just the same product of evolution and animal passions, with the same hiding place, the same hunger, the same dirtiness. You can’t be serious!

I saw without a shadow of a doubt that ‘I’ am the cause of every evil, corruption, dirt… just because ‘I’ am ‘so precious’. How ‘I’ mess everything up for myself and everybody just because ‘I’ am. And not some dissociated ‘I’ with enough quotes not to be me, but me right now thinking this.

There was the actual world just right there in front of me, obviously existing, pure and perfect, and then there was ‘me’, ‘humanity’. The contrast was simply hilarious. I can’t describe how hilarious this contrast was. What we’ve all been doing forever and ever, on a ridiculous parade of malice and sorrow, with the greatest seriousness.

I realised that I would indeed gladly die right now, gladly give away all I am, all I ever was, all I’ve done and felt since I was born, for peace-on-earth to be apparent (not even for me but) for everybody. For things to be as they are. And that it would be of no importance at all. No ‘weight’, no drama… just the only thing that made sense, the only sensible thing.

I was walking on a dirt path, in the shadows of the trees, a few hundred meters from home, with a big smile on my face, when everything stopped.

I saw the vortex that is ‘me’ drastically slow down, as it could not move in the overarching stillness, and evaporate, as it had no substance but movement.

Then there was nothing left. And nothing missing.

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Thanks for your reply @Kub933. It so interesting that the method is so intuitive, in hindsight. It’s just what you learn to do from an early age — there’s a problem and you address it. But the thing is that, I suppose, we learn that we need to do this when things happen in the material world, but not in ourselves. But even that distinction is silly. As if we are something completely separate from the rest of the world :joy:

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Such a wonderful quote. I had forgotten about this one. It may be one of my favorites. Interestingly “walking on a dirt path, in the shadows of the trees, a few hundred meters from home” is exactly where I have been making the most progress.

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Thanks for your reply @Kub933. It so interesting that the method is so intuitive, in hindsight. It’s just what you learn to do from an early age — there’s a problem and you address it. But the thing is that, I suppose, we learn that we need to do this when things happen in the material world, but not in ourselves. But even that distinction is silly. As if we are something completely separate from the rest of the world :joy:

Right it is interesting that such a monstrosity was created simply because people long dead believed that “it is impossible to change human nature”. All the failed systems (the “tried and true” systems of which Spirituality is a great exemplar) were founded on this faulty premise, and led to such horrific and unnecessary suffering.

It took a naive farm boy to find the third alternative to either being ‘normal’ or Divine, this gives a hint as to what is required to succeed.

PS this is referring to the naiveté, not the farming… :laughing:

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Roy: Thank you Vineeto, I have to give this another read but I just wanted to write something here at this moment:
One thing I tried to force me into, months ago, was to have a journal. It was hard to keep this habit and it was a messy process — I started with a public blog, then a notebook, then writing on my phone, then recording audios, while simultaneously still writing some things publicly here in this forum. It helped in two ways: (1) it forced me to closer inspect my current state but (2) the main benefit is that I can now read how about my experiences of months ago. This turns out to be very interesting because apparently (and I already had a sense that this was the case) I tend to transfer my current mood into these past memories. So my current identity would overtake the memories, as if it was fixed and unchanged through time. So just as I thought, I can’t completely trust my memories (in this particular aspect at least).

Hi Roy,

You are very welcome. I sounds like a very useful idea to keep some kind of a journal or written notes. You already had some very practical results and insights. Feelings always tend to colour not only the present experience but also the past and future outlook. When one is sad, one has always been like this and it will always be like this (unless the feeling changes to hope). It’s the very nature of the feeling itself. So it’s great to have a record. :blush:

Roy: The most important part is I now can compare the farther away past and the recent past and… it’s amazing how completely different my mood is on a daily basis. It is very very different. I used to be angry, sad and frustrated all the time, in comparison. Even feeling good at the time was not feeling good as it is now.

Congratulations. You can pat yourself on the back – this is just as much part of appreciation as appreciating anything else about this moment of being alive.

Roy: Yesterday when I was searching a bit more about vibes here in the forum, I found the report from Milito Paz and read his description of his experience. I found it interesting because for me, as up ’til now, the change in my mood and day-to-day experience, is different from what I had imagined it could be. Because it’s not like I’m feeling on the “top of the world” all of the time. It’s simply a fairly consistent state of feeling good — not in the sense of immense excitement, but in the sense of wide satisfaction and peace, punctuated with minor incidents. It’s not like I have replaced the old deranged rollercoaster with a fairytale-like rollercoaster. It’s more like a beautiful path with some occasional potholes.

For a warning, when reading Milito Paz’ reports – he suddenly disappeared when his report was questioned. It is most likely that he mistook his experience for an actual freedom when it was in fact an extensive ‘actuality-mimicking altered state of consciousness’. (link) There have been a few short-lived similar experiences amongst actualists – the new alternative to spiritual ASCs, when the ‘self’ needs an outlet from intense pressure. He had also reported that 2 years prior he was depressed for a long time, though that narrative changed remarkably of what he reported last year.

Here is a short excerpt summary from Richard’s editorial note in a long correspondence on this very topic –

Richard: A possible clue is to be found in a post from twelve days ago (12 Jan 2016; Message № 21544). Viz.:
• [Alan]: ‘… given my history, I would definitely qualify as bipolar were I to place myself in the hands of the ‘sane’ psychiatrists (…)’. [endquote].
Now, whilst most certainly not being in the business of making amateurish psychiatric diagnoses – and especially not via email and chat message information – I do have more than a passing familiarity with both the hypomanic and manic phases characteristic of what is nowadays classified under some form of Bipolar Affective Disorder (BAD) through having lived with a woman of a hyperthymic temperament (hyperthymia as distinct from euthymia), for over a decade, plus interacting with more than a few persons officially diagnosed bipolar (a.k.a. ‘manic-depressive’) and, thus, under specialist treatment.
Thus I do know it is possible to slip into a hypomanic state whilst illuding oneself that it fits the criterion for ‘out-from-control’ as per actualism lingo – and I especially know this via gradually talking a person so afflicted back out of it over time – and one of the hallmarks is the initial difficulty in ‘reaching’ such a person (they are ‘out of reach’ of normal discourse) due to the certitude such a state imbues. (…)
(In my experience a person in the manic phase of bipolar is unreachable, period, and it is only through that most-unfortunate state wearing-off, of its own accord (with or without medication), that normal discourse may recommence).
Incidentally, as there are warnings aplenty on The Actual Freedom Trust web site – about the likely danger of veering off into altered states (either of the spiritual or psychiatric variety) when one ventures beyond the norm ill-prepared – I have retired from talking any such person back out of those cul-de-sacs. (link)

Hence Milito’s report is the wrong kind to compare your own achievements with his. You have done very well in such a short time.

Roy: And I guess this has been a side-effect of the actualism method. Because I’m working on simply examining my day to day, I stopped spending time imagining “what if’s”. I don’t really focus on what “could be”, because I’m spending the time examining what is or seems to be. And it helps that I’m good at examining — it is something I have been doing all my life — but incorrectly. I was focusing on the wrong things. I was trying all the self-improvements and productivity and self-help advice I could find instead of focusing on what was right in front of me: how I’m really experiencing this moment, and why?

This is an excellent re-focussing. Kuba (link) can probably tell you something about his findings of his own (link) “self-improvement” efforts. Now that you are contemplating re-orientation I recommend accessing your long-lost naiveté via utter sincerity – which for most people had been hidden away since puberty – being like a child again but with adult sensibilities. It may take a bit of courage if you are hesitant to appear foolish but it is immensely rewarding. This is not only to learn again to have fun but also to recognize how truly wondrous life is when you let yourself freely and naïvely enjoy and appreciate it. While “self-improvement” may improve what you are doing (and inadvertently also improve the ‘self’), naiveté will entice you to improve what you are being (and your daughter can give you some clues too). :upside_down_face:

Roy: In conclusion, I’ll continue and try to catch myself whenever I contemplate (which happens occasionally) things like “Oh wouldn’t it be great if I could trigger PCEs?” “Oh wouldn’t it be great if I could get rid of my ‘self’?” etc… and simply focus on investigating how I’m experiencing the moment. In the past, situations have happened where I tried to get something really hard and was unable, just to later stop chasing it and have it drop on my lap. Maybe that’ll happen this time? We’ll see (link)

Rather than catching yourself, why not be less serious in your attitude towards yourself … sincere yes, but not serious. With naiveté operating you can easily and joyfully allow/invite a PCE to happen.

Cheers Vineeto

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Thank you for the warning. It seemed to be the case.

Fortunately, kids give me plenty opportunities to make a fool out of myself :laughing:

It felt silly some times - writing about my ordinary states of mind and seemingly shallow experiences - but I’m glad I did it. Like you say, for the sake of having a record.

At some point I considered writing in a way that could be of interest to my children in a future day, but I decided not to and I think it was the sensible thing to do: (1) I would have not been as honest, because one tries to write an interesting story/narrative (it happens when I write in this forum, to some extent: there’s always polishing). (2) It likely wouldn’t be of benefit to them. We walk different paths and even if I went back in time and introduced the Actual Freedom Trust to twenty-year old me, he would not care. I wasn’t ready then, I was too concerned with having a career, status, etc… Wanting to write for someone else is probably just my ego trying to leave some sort of legacy, trying to prove that it matters to someone. I can print a PDF with parts of the Actual Freedom website instead.

My path is unique (because I’m a unique person in this time and space) but it’s not special in any way. I think it’s normal to feel like I’ve chosen this path, but what happened is that I made some choices that oriented me slightly in a direction and then life happened and I ended up here. It’s basically this in repeat — the path is maze-like in reality and it’s my ego that tries to picture it as a clear path that was solely possible thanks to its choices. But in fact it was also about chance and many factors I had no control over. My children will have to go on their own different maze-like paths and I can’t teach them any shortcuts because I’ve no idea where they are headed. The only thing I can do for them is to be happy and harmless.

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I just stumbled upon a beautiful journal entry from @Felix. These bits got my attention…

As I now start to investigate the positive feelings too, I can’t immediately pinpoint why exactly I am feeling good. And like Felix mentioned, I am also quite numb in terms of how much I get from my senses… Maybe this feeling good that I’m experiencing is, to some extent, related to the feeling that I’m making progress. And/or to the fact that I’m doing something that I’m good at: examining/investigating. But what if I stopped progressing? What if I stopped sharing my progress here, and stopped receiving reassuring messages from people in this forum, that I am making progress? Maybe this forum has become my new source of dopamine hits… Feels uncomfortable to consider this.

EDIT: I’m feeling anxious right now with the thought that I may be (to some extent at least) fooling myself and that this current “feeling good” may not be sustainable in the long run.

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I got back to feeling good again, wonderful even in comparison, to say the least. I’ll leave this forum for now to break this attachment, but let me share this vivid dream I had first:

The inside of my head was computer-like. My eyes were turned to the inside and they could only see, like a screen, what seemed to be an old operative system running (imagine Windows 95). There were folders all over the desktop, and suddenly, a menu opened, an option was selected, and that specific icon disappeared. This started to happen to every icon, one by one, automatically, on repeat. As if, even though this was a passive machine, it was programmed to, at this moment, start to delete itself, bit by bit. This went on for quite a while as far as I can tell. At the end, there was nothing on the desktop, and instead of powering off and going dark, it powered on - like in a reboot - and the screen expanded slowly from the four corners of my eyes until it became infinitely wide and bright. And with that, I woke up…

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Roy: … Wanting to write for someone else is probably just my ego trying to leave some sort of legacy, trying to prove that it matters to someone. I can print a PDF with parts of the Actual Freedom website instead.

Hi Roy,

Your thinking about writing for the benefits of others doesn’t hold up as you already received feedback how it has helped some people and how you commented that other people’s writing helped you. It does matter. Apart from possible ego-enhancing reasons there is also fellowship regard, the very reason why, for instance, Richard wrote all he did during the last 25 years.

All that has been written before actualism is how to cope with the firmly entrenched ubiquitous belief that you cannot change human nature. Anyone’s writing about the opposite being demonstrably and successfully the case can only benefit the human race now and in the long run. You haven’t been told, by any chance, that the meek shall inherit the earth, have you? :wink:

Roy: My path is unique (because I’m a unique person in this time and space) but it’s not special in any way. I think it’s normal to feel like I’ve chosen this path, but what happened is that I made some choices that oriented me slightly in a direction and then life happened and I ended up here. It’s basically this in repeat – the path is maze-like in reality and it’s my ego that tries to picture it as a clear path that was solely possible thanks to its choices. But in fact it was also about chance and many factors I had no control over. My children will have to go on their own different maze-like paths and I can’t teach them any shortcuts because I’ve no idea where they are headed. The only thing I can do for them is to be happy and harmless. (link)

Yes, your “children will have to go on their own different maze-like paths” and yet you can already pass on some of the things you have discovered. Children often can understand more of what one gives them credit for. For instance –

RESPONDENT: What do you say to your grandchildren when they are hurt, desolate, crying?
RICHARD: I say the same to my grandchildren when they are hurt, desolate or crying as I say to any body and every body – no body is special – which is: all mental-emotional-psychic suffering is an unnecessary and self-inflicted wound. (Richard, Gen. Corresp., Page 9a, 21 March 2000).

RICHARD: Back when I was a father, when my then children would ask me if Santa Claus was real, I would say yes but not actual like a table is, for instance, as their mother was full-on into the traditions and such diplomatic answers, rather than an outright no, made for relative domestic harmony … and they had no difficulty whatsoever in grasping that concept (and applying it to witches riding broomsticks as well and fairies at the bottom of the garden and so on). (Richard, AF List, No. 25b, 19 July 2003).

Also, you are probably already discovering that being a friend to your children is much more fun than being a parent –

RICHARD: Presumably you are referring to this:
• [Tarin]: ‘… is it any better to be a friend to one’s child than a parent?
• [Richard]: ‘It certainly is … just for starters: being much more fun it readily promotes open learning (children are congenitally curious).
• [Tarin]: ‘If so, in what ways? I have already read this part: [quote] ‘and they all appreciated that immensely … as exemplified by the youngest often saying how glad she was that the ‘bossy-boots dad’ was gone’ [endquote].
• [Richard]: ‘By not being either authoritarian (as distinct from authoritative) or disciplinarian a child’s innate inquisitiveness is not stifled – and many such educators have bemoaned the lack of motivation in their subject students – inasmuch curiosity’s concomitant keenness for discovery provides more than enough incentive.
Apart from being innately curious children are also inherently imitative – as indicated by the term ‘role-model’ – and it should not take genius to suss out the advantages friendship has over parentship (or any other form of kinship for that matter)’.
There is a marked difference to being authoritarian (being an autocratic disciplinarian) and being authoritative – as in proceeding from competent authority (expertise/ experience) – and children generally appreciate guidance as the world at large can be, and often is, a bewildering/ frightful place for them … especially in the playground (where the bully-boys and feisty-femmes act-out the law of the jungle on a daily basis). (Richard, AF List, Tarin, 14 June 2006)

You’ll find out as you go along.

Cheers Vineeto

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Roy: I just stumbled upon a beautiful journal entry from Felix. These bits got my attention…

Felix: A big part of the appreciation is sensuous enjoyment. […] I was a true hedonist and escapist, and I couldn’t access any sensual enjoyment. I was very numb actually. (link)

As I now start to investigate the positive feelings too, I can’t immediately pinpoint why exactly I am feeling good. And like Felix mentioned, I am also quite numb in terms of how much I get from my senses… Maybe this feeling good that I’m experiencing is, to some extent, related to the feeling that I’m making progress. And/or to the fact that I’m doing something that I’m good at: examining/ investigating. But what if I stopped progressing? What if I stopped sharing my progress here, and stopped receiving reassuring messages from people in this forum, that I am making progress? Maybe this forum has become my new source of dopamine hits… Feels uncomfortable to consider this.

Hi Roy,

Even though you said you are feeling much better than you did a few months ago you still seem to have a modus operandi/ habit(?) of interpreting your progress as something potentially negative. This is your ‘self’-preservation in action, a trick of ‘me’ to prevent change, not to be confused with being sensibly cautious or “examining/ investigating”.

Just thought I’ll let you know. :blush:

Roy: EDIT: I’m feeling anxious right now with the thought that I may be (to some extent at least) fooling myself and that this current “feeling good” may not be sustainable in the long run. (link)

Well, “feeling good” can change, as all feelings are in flux (being the swirling vortex of instinctual passions that you are). However, as you described in your previous post (link) you have a new feeling good “default set-point” (link) which you can come back to from each emotional adventure.

Perhaps it is also the prospect of testing the waters of naiveté, which makes you wonder if you are not “fooling” yourself. Remember to focus on the thrilling part of fear/anxiousness … it is there where you source the required courage.

Cheers Vineeto

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@roy When I read your latest entries I thought the same, this is just humility getting in the way of what appears to be great progress. But this is the nature of humility, that it is designed to keep ‘you’ exactly where ‘you’ are. It is a fascinating one to explore and you might have some fun doing this.

This humility will have you back out with (your own) accusations of ‘only doing this for the ego’ etc and what is the outcome? Another humble soul perpetuating suffering in themselves and therefore others, and nobody is better off!

You do not benefit from your humility as it keeps you trapped within the old pattern and neither does anybody else benefit from this humility. Because if humility is to be the way things are done then anyone who proceeds forward is some kind of a narcissist/megalomaniac, so everybody humbly remains back where it is ‘safe’.

If you look more closely at this humility you might see that it is a ploy that ‘you’ use in order to remain within ‘humanity’. It feels safe to remain within the confines of accepted wisdom, within the apparent ‘safety’ of the group. So although humility carries some kind of ‘holier than thou’ appeal, it is actually rather pathetic.

Humility is something ‘I’ can use to bail out of any genuine change and instead retreat back into the ‘safety’ of the ‘old ways’. Once this ‘safety’ is seen for what it is then it will be clear that remaining ‘back there’ is actually very dangerous for all concerned.
Humility then has to be discarded along with pride and you will find that it takes a lot of courage and a lot of sincerity to do this. So you do not have to worry about becoming some narcissist or megalomaniac, because such a person would not have the requisite commitment to being genuine which would allow any of this in the first place.

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