Kuba: Hi Vineeto,
I will reply to your latest post here:Vineeto: You must be delighted to have found more puzzles to solve. (link)
Actually for the first time this is not something that I am finding very attractive anymore. Looking around in this area of being a ‘man’ I cannot seem to find much else.
Hi Kuba,
That is good news.
Kuba: However I do agree with what you wrote here:
Vineeto: Even though one can become actually free without having dismantled the whole of one’s social identity – if aspects of it bother you now then now is the time to examine those and may remove a lot of your present ‘jitters’. It will also remove various obstacles/ concerns which you may come across exploring the full range of naiveté and being as close to innocence as a ‘self’ can be. (link)
Kuba: Those last 2 points are relevant and related, in that there is clearly something blocking naivete from flourishing fully. And I very much find this prospect attractive, to find a way for naivete to flourish fully – both because of the immediate reward and because it is the best thing ‘I’ can presently do to get closer to reaching ‘my’ destiny.
What I can locate in myself which is possibly blocking naivete from flourishing is this deep feeling that I am disliked by others. This feeling goes against all my day to day experience so clearly there is something there. As an example with my hen party work, I have done at least a thousand of these events now and in 99% of the cases they are all having a great time and clearly they very much enjoy having me there. And yet almost every time as I am on my way to meet a new group there is this deep feeling/ expectation/ belief that they will dislike me. Now this feeling will usually disappear within a couple of minutes of me meeting the group as I find out yet again that they are enjoying my company. And yet the next time around the expectation is still there, against this overwhelming amount of data pointing in the other direction. So clearly there is this aspect of – fervently wishing something to be true.
So the original issue of “keep it together” revealed a general anxiety – “this deep feeling that I am disliked by others”.
Kuba: It seems this may be related to the fact that I was never able to quite relate like others did. That there were all these rules and double meanings and hidden messages that perhaps I could not pick up and inadvertently I would sooner or latter accidentally transgress some expectation or boundary. I always found people to be very volatile in this manner, that niceness would very quickly turn to malice when I did not “play ball”.
Now again this really seems like a “phantom problem” because I can’t remember the last time someone was less than nice towards me.
The way you describe this it looks like a habitual expectation, held in place for many years.
Before I reply in detail, let me ask you if you wrote this post while feeling good, feeling excellent, or did you write it while in the grip of being anxious? I ask because contemplation about any emotional issue works best when feeling good and further below you list all the reasons justifying having this feeling, which in the actual situation “will usually disappear within a couple of minutes”.
Kuba: But perhaps the belief is that the only reason I am able to maintain niceness with others is because I am “playing ball” with them and so if the controller was to disappear and then ‘I’ was ‘being’ naivete as an ongoing modus operandi then ‘my’ very presence would be an irritant to others.
The way you described how you experience life appears way past “playing ball” and being nice. To believe that you would be an “irritant to others” you would have to ignore/ overlooked what I said only two days ago –
Vineeto: Now these very same psychic currents can have a powerful beneficial effect when they are felicitous and innocuous i.e. happy and harmless feelings –
05 January 2010:
• [Co-Respondent]: … the way is open for the consciousness mutation to be implemented on a global level.
• [Richard]: Indeed so … via happy and harmless (affective) ‘vibes’ and felicitous and innocuous (psychic) ‘currents’. (I have oft-times said that is where the real power-play occurs). (Long Awaited Announcement). (link)
These felicitous and innocuous vibes/ currents are also highly contagious.
Kuba: There was something that was written in one of the links you included: That the society we exist in is a fun and sex depreciating society, it’s a bit like that. It’s not just a case of the fear of being different but I am worried about people attacking me when I no longer give credence to all this seriousness. That by living naively and in gay abandon I will sooner or later accidentally transgress some boundary. Will I laugh when I was supposed to be serious? Will I forget to reciprocate some unspoken rule? Will I not realise that they other expects me to respond in this particular way etc.
And I am scared of this, because I have seen just how quickly the so-called goodness flips into malice, that I am a friend as long as I “play ball” and then very quickly I become foe.
This is not to make light of your reasons for feeling scared – and it could well be an atavistic [archaic, primal, primitive] fear passed on for generations that it is dangerous to leave the herd – but it is nevertheless a feeling and no longer a fact in the society you live in, that as long as you use your adult sensibilities being naïve will not get you killed.
At the start of actualism feeling being ‘Vineeto’ had similar atavistic fears that if ‘she’ stepped out of line ‘she’ could be burned at the stake, as had happened in the middle ages – and this fear was no picnic at first –
‘Vineeto’: The psychic world of divine and evil, with its atavistic feelings and psychic power structures, is not to be dismissed lightly. It is not a small thing we are doing, stepping out of ancient psychic history and leaving behind at least 3,500 years of recorded superstition and belief, hope for heaven and fear of hell. I encountered fears of being burnt as a witch, expelled from the tribe or starved to death – which in not so recent history were not just psychic imagined fears. These fears all seem to be woven as an ancient memory in our brain cells and are automatically triggered the moment one dares to steps out of the tribal, religious or social group one has belonged to.
Two things always helped me to overcome those fear-attacks – one was the obvious fact that feelings are not actual. Nobody is actually persecuting me or physically threatening me. The other thing is the understanding that I am deliberately and actively dismantling my very ‘self’, all of ‘who I think and feel I am’ and of course that will rock the boat, it wouldn’t be an actual change if it didn’t! Then, the journey becomes really thrilling … (Actualism, Vineeto, AF List, Gary, 3.8.2000).
Objectively “this really seems like a ‘phantom problem’”, except that you believe it to be possibly true, based on very old memories and habituation.
Kuba: Actually, the correspondence Richard had on the AFT when he first went public is a perfect demonstration of this, and the same for ‘Peter’ and ‘Vineeto’. What incredible push back against well-meaning fellow human beings demonstrating a different way of doing things. (link)
Addendum: I guess Richard never experienced a single ‘bite’ though and was obviously physically safe throughout all this discussion. So I wonder is it the same with ‘being’ naivete, that of course there is a world of identities that would demand one to be serious and yet it doesn’t have to count for anything at all. (link)
Indeed, Richard met plenty of doubt and opposition when he first wrote on the spiritual mailing lists (List A, a supposedly atheistic list) and List B (followers of J. Krishnamurti) but the most extensive and outright vicious witch-hunt started after the Direct Route was successfully opened, and the people in the real world felt a threatening wind that actualism would disrupt in their accustomed (malicious/ sorrowful and highly valued) way of life. This was never spelt out, or even recognized, but their actions of pulling out all the stops of civilized decency revealed their actions as an attempt to stop peace on earth in its tracks.
It went for over two years and Richard not only “never experienced a single ‘bite’” but also had a lot of fun and skill exposing the three main instigators (No. 6, No. 4 and No. 2 including their multiple sock-puppets) plus the two list-trolls with their multiple sock-puppets (No. 5 and No. 37) as the poltroons, liars and persecutors they were by demonstrating their own internal contradictions – hanging them by their own rope, so to speak. You can read the correspondence No. 29 on List D from 11 Jan 2013 onwards, including the tool tips, to give you a good summary of the end of the affair. At some point Claudiu was almost the only sensible active participant.
I know from experience that “‘being’ naivete” takes courage to start with, once you leave the safety of your familiar surrounding – it also takes daring and caring – then you focus on the thrilling aspect and soon the jitters will wither away. Then you start getting into the grove of being naïve, experience the joy and remember to appreciative the adventure, and allow the universe to live you more and more, and the confidence of the palpable benignity and benevolence of pure intent is your guide, and carries you all the way.
Richard: And once embarked upon the wide and wondrous path to an actual freedom, you are not on your own: this perfection is with you all the way … but if you waver, you are indeed doing it on your own …’. (Richard, AF List, Alan-b, 13 Dec 1999).
You might also enjoy the next one –
RICHARD: G’day No. 32, In regards to the first of the two things which happened to you while on a flight trip: the realisation that your fellow human beings, when in an everyday position of power and control, will (on occasion) pull a power-trip on their fellow human beings – per favour blind nature’s rough and ready software survival package – can be of an on-going benefit (as well as that immediate long-term benefit, which you have already reported, of it hitting home to you more deeply how there is just no long term solution to be found in the human condition) but only provided your on-the-spot realisation manifests as an actualisation, of that valuable insight, in your moment-to-moment living.
An anecdote might best illustrate what I mean: many years ago my then-companion Devika would oft-times say to me that I should stand up for myself and not let peoples (such as you describe) push me around … indeed, it was one of the reasons she created a psychic force-field in her psyche (which is, of course, the human psyche) so as to protect what she saw, experientially, back then as innocence personified.
(She was wont to exclaim, on occasion, how ‘Richard brings something marvellous – something absolutely wonderful – into the world and yet everyone deposits ordure on it’ … albeit not expressed quite so politely as that).
What she did not realise – except during a PCE of course – is that innocence itself (the genuine article and not the so-called innocence of children) requires no affective vibe/ psychic current protection whatsoever and, therefore, in vain would I explain to her that, in everyday situations such as you report (where the whole point of the exercise is to walk out the door with the goodies which those in a position of power and control can either dispense or withhold), I had no interest whatsoever in futilely striving to win a puny ego-battle with some officious power-tripper but, instead, walk away with the said goodies each time. (Richard, List D, No. 32, 7 July 2013).
Cheers Vineeto
