Kub933's Journal

I know you are onto something here Vineeto because recently I have observed a certain severity in my relating with Sonya, a kind of fierce, unforgiving, sharp energy, this is the outcome of not being friends with ‘myself’. Now that same fierceness that ‘I’ apply to ‘myself’ has spilled out onto others.

Well except those above mentioned events no I wouldn’t, as in I would not wish for them to carry that burden for even a second when it is not required, but it seems ‘I’ do not afford ‘myself’ that same treatment, funnily enough in the long run it means ‘I’ don’t afford others that treatment either.

So yes it is as Richard wrote :

eventually ‘I’ come to realise that the very best thing that ‘I’ can do is altruistically ‘self’-immolate for the benefit of this body and all bodies

It’s a circle of sorrow and malice, ‘I’ don’t allow ‘myself’ to drop the burden and so ‘I’ suffer, despite ‘my’ best intentions ‘I’ end up hurting others too. And the more severe ‘I’ become with ‘myself’ the more we all hurt in the end.

Allowing ‘myself’ to drop the burden is the way out of this. Otherwise ‘I’ remain hurt and continue hurting others too, despite ‘my’ best intentions.

So this is where I am not at fully yet, in that I do not see without a shadow of a doubt that “the very best thing that ‘I’ can do is altruistically ‘self’-immolate for the benefit of this body and all bodies”. But I see it more now after what you have pointed out, as in I see the pointless and circular nature of suffering in any degree, not just for ‘me’ but for everybody.

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Is it a sincere not seeing of it?

If so then what is the benefit that you can enumerate of why it might be better for you not to selfimmolate?

For me it is a different thing, I see it’s the best thing but am not willing to give myself up for it yet, it is a self-centric wanting to hold onto myself — which I am increasingly seeing is also just a feeling, ie a feeling (though very deep) of wanting to continue existing as myself, but as it’s a feeling it’s not intelligent or sensible lol

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When I ask this question to myself there is just tumbleweeds :laughing:

This is what I was trying to get at earlier, that intellectually I can agree and yet it is clear that at the depths of ‘my’ being ‘I’ do not agree yet, otherwise it would be happening now.

So I am not sure if this is a case of being somewhat dissociated here, with 1 aspect of ‘me’ being so sure and yet the deeper aspect not being in alignment or what…

If I was to approach it purely in an intellectual manner then I would be going around in circles, and yet the entirety of ‘my’ being does not agree to self immolate now.

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The one thing which I can see has definitely changed is that I am looking at it happening now, as in it’s no longer some far out potential idea, or as Geoffrey said I am not playing “fake it till you make it”. It’s now a case of finding a way for it to happen now.

Kuba: I know you are onto something here Vineeto because recently I have observed a certain severity in my relating with Sonya, a kind of fierce, unforgiving, sharp energy, this is the outcome of not being friends with ‘myself’. Now that same fierceness that ‘I’ apply to ‘myself’ has spilled out onto others.

Vineeto: Would you treat any of your fellow human beings the way you seem to be treating yourself such that you are “‘screaming’ constantly”?

Kuba: Well except those above mentioned events no I wouldn’t, as in I would not wish for them to carry that burden for even a second when it is not required, but it seems ‘I’ do not afford ‘myself’ that same treatment, funnily enough in the long run it means ‘I’ don’t afford others that treatment either.

Hi Kuba,

Yes, that is exactly it – when you treat yourself badly it does result in you consequently treating others badly too, plus emanating negative vibes as well. Perhaps this recognition might give you an incentive to become more friendly, less demanding, less pushing with yourself.

Kuba: So yes it is as Richard wrote : “eventually ‘I’ come to realise that the very best thing that ‘I’ can do is altruistically ‘self’-immolate for the benefit of this body and all bodies”.
It’s a circle of sorrow and malice, ‘I’ don’t allow ‘myself’ to drop the burden and so ‘I’ suffer, despite ‘my’ best intentions ‘I’ end up hurting others too. And the more severe ‘I’ become with ‘myself’ the more we all hurt in the end.

I am pleased you can see that.

At present it’s not about “to drop the burden” but to drop the need to control and to get back to feeling good in order to step out of the cycle “of sorrow and malice”. When there is no moral demand on yourself but sheer enjoyment and appreciation for the thrilling process which is happening of its own accord, especially when ‘you’ don’t interfere, then there is no room to be impatient, to suffer and hurt others.

Kuba: Allowing ‘myself’ to drop the burden is the way out of this. Otherwise ‘I’ remain hurt and continue hurting others too, despite ‘my’ best intentions.
So this is where I am not at fully yet, in that I do not see without a shadow of a doubt that “the very best thing that ‘I’ can do is altruistically ‘self’-immolate for the benefit of this body and all bodies”. But I see it more now after what you have pointed out, as in I see the pointless and circular nature of suffering in any degree, not just for ‘me’ but for everybody. (link)

The way out of this is to get back to feeling good and then enjoy and appreciate this unique and exciting adventure of a lifetime. “The more severe ‘I’ become with ‘myself’” is another way of saying you want to control the way it is going to happen … and that is not possible by the very nature of ‘self’-immolation –

Richard: ‘I’ do not do the deed itself for an ‘I’ cannot end itself … (Richard, List B, No. 12, 6 Mar 1998).

It is really hard to sit back and enjoy the ride, isn’t it? :upside_down_face:

Cheers Vineeto

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@Kub933 @claudiu
I really love you guys. It’s so nice to know that two young fellas have made such a monumental advancement towards the pinnacle of my own investigations.

There is indeed something more though. More than anything that can be put into the language of apes. A type of madness which took a war to unleash. Even if it wasn’t enough for a full veteran pension.

It’s like we want that final emotional endorsement. That our storyline is legitimate.

Let me tell you now; I fully endorse and appreciate both of your storylines. I love you like father’s, brothers and sons.

Whatever you can discover at this point, along with @henryyyyyyyyyy and @Miguel and @Ian and “@” everyone else; I will see you there!!!

:sunglasses:

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Thank you Vineeto, your replies are very useful here. I should have written a while ago, that would have been less time wasted!

So essentially it’s like this - ‘my’ most supreme donation comes from felicity and innocuity, from enjoyment and appreciation, that is how it is a gift freely (and happily) given.

Whereas ‘I’ have been trying to deliver it from some kind of morality/control/seriousness and the product so far has been more suffering… :laughing:

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Thank you for your kind words Andrew :blush:

Hi Kuba,

Well said. :smile:

Cheers Vineeto

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This was such great advice! It did not occur to me that I could do this, instead I was trying to sort of “tough it out”, but where is the fun, adventure and thrill in that. No wonder it became some kind of a serious, almost moralistic thing. I was just waiting for it to end as opposed to enjoying and appreciating the thrilling ride.

So even those instinctual passionate reactions which come as a result of ‘my’ approaching demise can be turned into enjoyment and appreciation. Perhaps there was some kind of a feeling/belief that altruistic self-immolation must be a serious affair, but something which you wrote Vineeto came to mind yesterday, to paraphrase you wrote that the last step can be taken with a “hop and a skip”. This is possible only when all of ‘me’ is on board, and how else for ‘me’ to get on board than to welcome ‘my’ destiny, it is the powerful affective energy of felicity and innocuity which can allow something so ‘big’ to disappear forever with a “hop and a skip”.

How amazing that with the seriousness fading the world around has now changed also! I see now that indeed ‘I’ cannot control the ways and means of self-immolation, that would be a contradiction in terms, ‘I’ only enjoy and appreciate the thrilling ride and remain out from control.

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I will just add the below which came to mind a few minutes ago. This is how ‘Vineeto’ experienced ‘her’ last moments :

When I returned to the living room a dynamic and quite frivolous interaction developed and in that uninhibited hilarious atmosphere I blew the last remaining cobwebs of seriousness, cautiousness and social correctness out of the corners of my psyche. It was all very casual, jovial and funny, unrehearsed and spontaneous and I became confident that this is how I wanted to live my life forever.

This is in the other direction to what ‘I’ was doing before, ‘I’ was holding onto and nourishing the seriousness, trying to self-immolate from the seriousness. Of course this can never work, I see this energy of seriousness for what it is now, it will never deliver the goods, it can be discarded now.

I wrote the below a while ago :

Oh wow yes savouring indeed, I can hardly contain myself haha. I was driving from the shops with Sonya yesterday and I had a smile glued permanently to my face :smile:. To see that in actual freedom there is only enjoyment and appreciation, the method makes perfect sense all of a sudden!

So there is no seriousness in actual freedom, how could seriousness ever assist with becoming actually free. In fact it does the precise opposite, it anchors ‘me’ as a ‘being’.

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A lot of posts today :grin: OK so I can see with this energy of seriousness, there was some kind of attachment that ‘I’ had to it, that ‘I’ felt it was needed. I have been looking at this, the question of why is any seriousness needed?

What I can see so far is this feeling/belief that seriousness provides meaning, that it is ‘deep’, that to fully appreciate what it means to be a human being requires seriousness. I realise as I am typing this out, what utter garbage it is!

This is nothing short of saying that suffering is required for meaning.

But that is the thrust of this belief, that in order to demonstrate caring one has to become seriously involved.

But I see that this is not so, that life can be enjoyed and appreciated fully without a shred of seriousness. It is still something new though, like an open question - Is it possible to cast out any and all seriousness for good and to live life in full meaning.

I see that the universe has already ensured that seriousness plays no part, because of the facticity of death. ‘I’ can only kid ‘myself’ that something is serious, by believing that it is ultimately lasting. Only the universe exists eternally and it has no need for seriousness as it is absolute. ‘I’ want seriousness as it gives ‘me’ a shot at eternity, at immortality. ‘I’ want to build that which is ultimately lasting - that is the very thrust of ‘my’ seriousness, it is 180 degrees opposite to simply being here to play. So I see why ‘I’ was invested in the seriousness, it does anchor ‘me’ as a ‘being’, to cast out all seriousness is to say a resounding YES to being alive, and to death also.

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And if ‘I’ was to get ‘my’ way and things were of a lasting importance, that is not a good outcome at all, life would be a serious business. And if ‘I’ was to live eternally, what about those other human beings that are yet to be born, they would never get to experience the joy of being alive. How weird that the thing which is felt/believed to be at core what is ‘wrong’ with the universe - mortality - is what in the grand scheme of things ensures a happiness and harmlessness for all.

In this scenario of immortality life would be merely about surviving, enduring - of course that is a serious business. In actuality life is about enjoyment and appreciation, that is the reason this body is here.

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So it seems what I have been circling here is that even ‘my’ death is not a serious business. I can see that I was able to enjoy and appreciate and to remove seriousness from most aspects of my life but it is as if ‘I’ reserved a special place for it where it concerned arriving at ‘my’ destiny. This 1 thing seemed worthy enough to be serious about, that it was ‘worthy enough’ to forego enjoyment and appreciation for this 1 goal.

But I see now that there was never a need to get serious at all, which means the way forward is enjoyment and appreciation anyways.

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Vineeto: The way out of this is to get back to feeling good and then enjoy and appreciate this unique and exciting adventure of a lifetime. “The more severe ‘I’ become with ‘myself’” is another way of saying you want to control the way it is going to happen … and that is not possible by the very nature of ‘self’-immolation –

Vineeto: It is not for nothing that the actualism method is about enjoyment and appreciation, all the way. In other words, you have the option to enjoy and appreciate your slowly coming to terms with your being redundant.

Vineeto: What you could do instead is channelling those “burning”, “screaming” passions into affective felicitous and innocuous passions

Kuba: This was such great advice! It did not occur to me that I could do this, instead I was trying to sort of “tough it out”, but where is the fun, adventure and thrill in that. No wonder it became some kind of a serious, almost moralistic thing. I was just waiting for it to end as opposed to enjoying and appreciating the thrilling ride.

Hi Kuba,

I find it amusing that after so many years of applying actualism and being close to your intended goal of reaching your destiny, as you have been telling us all for some time (so it must be so), I remind you of the 101 tool of the actualism method and you tell me that “it did not occur to me that I could do this”.

Just to put in an additional plug for the method Richard devised and used with success –

Richard: For the sake of clarity in communication I would stress that the actualism method sits firmly upon the minimisation of both the ‘good’ and ‘bad’ feelings and the optimisation of the felicitous/ innocuous feelings … and merely being in touch with felicity will not do the trick. (Richard, AF List, No. 50, 30 Sep 2003)

Richard also said that he experienced as an artist, how at time “the painting painted itself” and he wanted his life to live itself as well. The way it works with art is that one practices the skills and tools of the craft until they become second nature and one becomes a very good crafts-person. Then, and only then it is possible for ‘me’ to get out of the way and let the painting/ sculpture/ pottery/ etc. make itself – this is when craft becomes art.

The same happens with the actualism method – when applied with diligence and persistence until enjoyment and appreciation become second nature, come what may, when this becomes a habitual way of life, then the craft can become art when the controller steps out of the way, naiveté becomes the norm and life is allowed to live itself. That is when the actualism process takes over and one can sit back and enjoy and appreciate a ride of a life-time.

Richard: “Also, by virtue of proceeding in this manner the means to the end – an ongoing enjoyment and appreciation – are no different to the end itself.” (Richard, Articles, This Moment of Being Alive).

Kuba: So even those instinctual passionate reactions which come as a result of ‘my’ approaching demise can be turned into enjoyment and appreciation. Perhaps there was some kind of a feeling/ belief that altruistic self-immolation must be a serious affair, but something which you wrote Vineeto came to mind yesterday, to paraphrase you wrote that the last step can be taken with a “hop and a skip”. This is possible only when all of ‘me’ is on board, and how else for ‘me’ to get on board than to welcome ‘my’ destiny, it is the powerful affective energy of felicity and innocuity which can allow something so ‘big’ to disappear forever with a “hop and a skip”.

I searched through everything I have written and could find neither “hop” nor “skip”, perhaps you can find it. I found this –

Vineeto: Once you sorted out everything you can sensibly sorting out, you will by its very nature do something you have never done before – manumit your ‘self’.
This last step is something entirely new in your life and is necessarily a jump from the known into the unknown (which you had glimpses of). But you cannot reason it out in advance – you cannot rely on your trusted sensible pattern of action. [emphasis added] (Actualism, Actualvineeto, Kuba, 30 Sep 2024).

It is not surprising though that you so willingly believed that “self-immolation must be a serious affair” – the very survival passions induce this belief/ imagination that it is a big deal and that you must suffer for even wanting it. But upon closer inspection this too is a furphy.

Kuba: How amazing that with the seriousness fading the world around has now changed also! I see now that indeed ‘I’ cannot control the ways and means of self-immolation, that would be a contradiction in terms, ‘I’ only enjoy and appreciate the thrilling ride and remain out from control. (link)

I am so very pleased that you can see this now – it will make ‘your’ last days so much more fun.

Kuba: This is in the other direction to what ‘I’ was doing before, ‘I’ was holding onto and nourishing the seriousness, trying to self-immolate from the seriousness. Of course this can never work, I see this energy of seriousness for what it is now, it will never deliver the goods, it can be discarded now.
So there is no seriousness in actual freedom, how could seriousness ever assist with becoming actually free. In fact it does the precise opposite, it anchors ‘me’ as a ‘being’. (link)

Yes, the very seriousness is nourishing the passionate illusion that ‘I’ am very, very important (a matter of life and death in fact) and therefore cannot abdicate the throne.

Kuba: A lot of posts today. OK so I can see with this energy of seriousness, there was some kind of attachment that ‘I’ had to it, that ‘I’ felt it was needed. I have been looking at this, the question of why is any seriousness needed?
What I can see so far is this feeling/ belief that seriousness provides meaning, that it is ‘deep’, that to fully appreciate what it means to be a human being requires seriousness. I realise as I am typing this out, what utter garbage it is!
This is nothing short of saying that suffering is required for meaning.
But that is the thrust of this belief, that in order to demonstrate caring one has to become seriously involved.

Sometimes it is enough to see your belief in print in order to recognize how silly it is. And so everyone goes around, earnestly and seriously perpetuating the suffering that supposedly provides meaning to one’s life.

Kuba: But I see that this is not so, that life can be enjoyed and appreciated fully without a shred of seriousness. It is still something new though, like an open question – Is it possible to cast out any and all seriousness for good and to live life in full meaning.
I see that the universe has already ensured that seriousness plays no part, because of the facticity of death. ‘I’ can only kid ‘myself’ that something is serious, by believing that it is ultimately lasting. Only the universe exists eternally and it has no need for seriousness as it is absolute. ‘I’ want seriousness as it gives ‘me’ a shot at eternity, at immortality. ‘I’ want to build that which is ultimately lasting – that is the very thrust of ‘my’ seriousness, it is 180 degrees opposite to simply being here to play. So I see why ‘I’ was invested in the seriousness, it does anchor ‘me’ as a ‘being’, to cast out all seriousness is to say a resounding YES to being alive, and to death also. (link)

Indeed, and not only does it anchor you to an imagined immortality but to ‘humanity’ as well – how dare you having fun while everyone is suffering. Here are two links where Richard was attacked by several correspondents for not duly suffering when a seismic sea-wave event happened – (Richard, AF List, No. 56c, 12 Jan 2005) and (Richard, AF List, 53g, 9 Jan 2005).

And exactly because seriousness/ suffering anchors and empowers ‘you’ “to build that which is ultimately lasting”, it is in your best interest to not be serious but naïvely enjoy and appreciate and cherish and marvel being here on this amazing planet we all share. There is no better way to fulfil your destiny.

Cheers Vineeto

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Yes it’s weird I am not quite sure what to say here :laughing: I thought today about my report 25 days ago where I wrote the below :

Things have been going so marvellously, I can’t quite believe the words I am typing out and yet this is precisely how I am experiencing being alive more and more. Yesterday for the majority of the day it was like this. The word that kept coming to my mind was that the entire world, including myself is a perfect and pure jewel of unadulterated delight.

And then only a few weeks later I am writing that I didn’t think to enjoy and appreciate… It’s like selective memory or some kind of amnesia, because as I was a couple of days ago that report might as well have been written by someone else. However by the time I wrote the below this morning that delightful flavour began to return :

You wrote :

Yes this is exactly what I got this morning also, the energy of those survival passions is a serious energy, a matter of life or death. It seems somewhere along the line I had let attentiveness slip and those mechanisms took over.

Well enjoyment and appreciation has resumed now, as one forum member wrote a while ago it is like a fresh summer breeze :blush:

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It’s interesting because those passions can certainly feel serious and yet a feeling is not a fact. It feels like a matter of life or death (in a sense it is for ‘me’) and yet all is actually well. I can see the lie of this programming now and it is exactly that a feeling is not a fact.

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So I have been thinking about this more, is it that I have truly been unaware of what it means to apply the actualism method? (The ongoing enjoyment and appreciation of this moment of being alive).

It seems to me that I have been applying a certain template, what I understood to be done when the instinctual passions are experienced. I remember reading Peters Actualist guide as well as some other information on the AFT years back now and these parts stuck with me :

Once sufficient of this dismantling of one’s social identity has been done, it is then possible to begin to experience the instinctual passions deeply without acting on them – once the ‘lid is off’ then I can have a good look around inside – neither repressing nor expressing – and begin to experience ‘me’ at the very core of my being. The only way it is possible to undergo a significant change in life is by experiencing something deeply and understanding the experience fully. I don’t know about a map at this stage – it’s more like throwing away the water wings and snorkel, strapping on a scuba tank, plunging into one’s own psyche and rummaging around the bottom, looking under all the rocks in order to see what the bottom really looks like. The spiritual practice of transcending one’s undesirable emotions means that this type of in-depth investigation is deliberately avoided and in real-world therapy any investigations are restricted by morals and ethics to a mere paddling around on the surface.

A variety of weird experiences are possible for one’s traditional defences, ways of coping or ways of avoiding, are no longer available. It is often as though one is naked in the world and it takes nerves of steel to not raise one’s traditional defences but to stay with any feelings of vulnerability and fear. Each time one dares to fully lower one’s guard and experience the consequences as only temporary and unsustainable instinctual emotional reactions, one gains more confidence to keep going, no matter what. Deep experiences of the raw instinctual passions can be safely had at this stage, be they the tender passions of nurture and desire or the savage passions of fear and aggression. One has an experiential understanding of the raw instinctual passions in operation and glimpses of both the instinctual savage ‘me’ and the instinctual good ‘me’

There was also another writing which I cannot find but it mentioned something similar, in that any deep investigation into ‘me’ will inevitably stirr up instinctual passionate reactions and when this happens one simply “rides these out”.

This is the kind of template that I have been using, in that when those instinctual passionate reactions are triggered I simply allow them to happen whilst applying attentiveness to the very depths of ‘my’ being.

So it seems this is why I would not make a conscious effort to redirect this energy towards the felicitous and innocuous feelings but rather I would take these as a chance to experience ‘me’ at the core of ‘my’ being.

And there would be a noticeable difference between for example getting triggered by the person cutting me up in traffic - in this case I would notice what took me out of feeling good and get back to feeling good - this kind of situation would not stir up these instinctual passionate reactions but rather it would be like the first few layers of the onion that is ‘me’ being triggered.

But I would notice a difference when it would be the very core of the onion that got exposed and those instinctual passionate reactions would not have any “rhyme or reason” to them as such, it would be like I just poked the bear and now it is lashing out. So taking that same route of finding the trigger and getting back to feeling good did not seem available.

Rather it seemed that ‘I’ have been exposed at the depths of ‘my’ being and those passionate reactions are an automatic result, so the only option is to ride these out whilst applying attentiveness to the depths of ‘my’ being.

@Vineeto Does this explain a bit better why I have been proceeding like I have? And I wonder if you have any comments here?

Oh and I forgot to reply about this one :

I searched through everything I have written and could find neither “hop” nor “skip”, perhaps you can find it.

No I could not either, it looks like it was different words which were used or I completely made it up.

Kuba: And if ‘I’ was to get ‘my’ way and things were of a lasting importance, that is not a good outcome at all, life would be a serious business. And if ‘I’ was to live eternally, what about those other human beings that are yet to be born, they would never get to experience the joy of being alive. How weird that the thing which is felt/ believed to be at core what is ‘wrong’ with the universe – mortality – is what in the grand scheme of things ensures a happiness and harmlessness for all. (link)

Hi Kuba,

This is not the only thing where feeling beings have a diametrically opposite affective assessment regarding “the grand scheme of things”. Just for one instance, one of the most common objections to actualism is that there are no feelings/ emotions in actuality, whilst for most people their feelings are one of the most highly valued aspects of being human. The same goes for the imaginative faculty.

Kuba: So it seems what I have been circling here is that even ‘my’ death is not a serious business. I can see that I was able to enjoy and appreciate and to remove seriousness from most aspects of my life but it is as if ‘I’ reserved a special place for it where it concerned arriving at ‘my’ destiny. This 1 thing seemed worthy enough to be serious about, that it was ‘worthy enough’ to forego enjoyment and appreciation for this 1 goal.
But I see now that there was never a need to get serious at all, which means the way forward is enjoyment and appreciation anyways. (link)

You have been busy with the topic of mortality for a long time (for instance here), and understood it theoretically at some point. But it is a different matter when mortality becomes personal as in ‘your’ own impending demise – then all theoretical appreciation of the benefits of not having to live forever (because then every action and decision would have eternal consequences and one could not help but be deeply serious about it all) goes out the window and “this 1 thing seemed worthy enough to be serious about”. And being serious, for whatever reason, empowers ‘me’ and hence actively works against peace-on-earth

Richard: You need to have a keen sense of humour. This business of becoming free is not – contrary to popular opinion – a serious business at all. Be totally sincere … most definitely utterly sincere, as genuineness is essential. But serious … no way. An actual freedom is all about having fun; about enjoying being here; about delighting in being alive. All that ‘being serious’ stuff actively works against peace-on-earth. One has to want to be here on this planet … most people resent being here and wish to escape. This method will bring one into being more fully here than anyone has ever been before. (…) (Richard, Articles, This Moment of Being Alive).

In fact, there is an existential joke in it all, which you can only fully appreciate when you dare to allow the final step, which is that you will then experientially know, and on an ongoing basis to boot, that ‘I’/ ‘me’ never existed in the first place –

Richard: ‘My’ demise was as fictitious as ‘my’ apparent presence. I have always been here, I realise, it was that ‘I’ only imagined that ‘I’ existed. It was all an emotional play in a fertile imagination … which was, however, fuelled by an actual hormonal substance triggered off from within the brain-stem because of the instinctual passions bestowed by blind nature. Thus the psyche – the entire affective faculty born of the instincts itself – is wiped out forever and one is finally what one actually is: this thinking and reflective flesh-and-blood body simply brimming with sense organs, delighting in this very sensual world of actual experience. (Richard, Articles, This Moment of Being Alive).

With that in mind, enjoying and appreciating the final scene of the “emotional play in a fertile imagination” is the only sensible thing to do.

Cheers Vineeto

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Yes I agree completely, I remember a few years ago when I had covid, my mum convinced me that I had a very serious reaction to it and I had a panic attack whilst sat on the toilet :laughing:. I thought I was dying right there and then though, it was very intense and I remember being completely flushed with fear to the point that I was collapsing. So yes that is the difference between considering mortality “at an arms length” and coming face to face with it.

OK so what I get from this (and also linking it back to my previous post above) is that the ‘final scene’ will be somewhat dramatic however I do not have to get serious about it. Those passionate instinctual reactions will happen as ‘I’ approach ‘my’ demise, this is par for the course. However instead of becoming serious I can enjoy and appreciate it for the thrilling adventure that it is. Which this brings the benefit of no longer having to control anything.

It is exactly like being on a rollercoaster ride, in that fear is there and yet this is something people pay money to do, and it is not serious at all. Once the fear is converted into thrill it becomes enjoyable. Or by the same token it is the same as paying money to go to the cinema/theatre to sit back and enjoy a drama.

Are you saying that I can enjoy and appreciate whatever is going on at this point in this manner?