Kub933's Journal

[Kub933]

So things are definitely shaping up to be magical today, I remember Srinath wrote a while back that he was attracted to actualism because it seemed to provide this sense of magic that was removed by the cold mechanical understanding of the world that ‘he’ had as an adult. How amazing that the mystery can be removed and yet the wonder is only magnified.

I am reminded of what Richard wrote that he would not change a single thing about the universe and that the universe is wondrously able to give birth to this body, to sustain it and eventually to end it also. This puts the last nail in the coffin with regards to any resentment against physical death.

For if the embryo of a fly is so wondrously complex in it’s happenings then what is this body! The perpetual matter of the infinite and eternal universe has managed (through breathtaking complexity) to arrange itself into a living, thinking and apperceptively aware creature known as a human being, as this creature the universe is aware of itself - where is the thing that is going ‘wrong’ again?
Of course ‘I’ am the thing that is wrong because ‘I’ am forever separated from all this wondrous happening.

Coming so close to self-immolation yesterday it has been of course the first thing on my mind this morning, it really seemed like it was about to happen, in fact that it began happening already and ‘I’ pulled back somehow. This thing of “it is too good to be true” seemed to be ‘my’ way back, ‘I’ darted through the door just as it was closing behind ‘me’.

But this “too good to be true” has exposed something about ‘me’, in that ‘I’ am still treating self-immolation as if some lucky draw of a lottery, something that will be granted to ‘me’ if ‘I’ am lucky enough to tick some invisible box. It does have some flavour of a peasant mentality - “please lord, I have done all that you have asked, gift ‘me’ deliverance now”.
I remember Geoffrey saying that if he was to become an identity he would take 5 minutes to check out what it’s like (presumably for the benefit of others) and then simply self-immolate.

So what a difference, here ‘I’ am treating it as if ‘I’ have to win the lottery and yet it seems that it would be an easily repeatable occurrence. Of course this is usually the case once the unknown is known, for example I know exactly what I did to step out from control yet back then it was not possible to know. But just because it is unknown does not mean it is achieved by luck or that it is intrinsically difficult.

As I experience it now there is a magical world all around, of which this body is an inhabitant. That magical flavour is as much in the tress and the birds as the very stuff of this body. So indeed as Srinath wrote it is impossible to miss when the target is as large as the universe. So of course it cannot be a lucky draw, because it is the universe that is infinite and ‘me’ that is so very small.

It seems that the certainty that would have ‘me’ self-immolate now could be used with complete reliability every time if needed, this is how sure ‘I’ need to be.

[Vineeto]

@Kub933

Coming so close to self-immolation yesterday it has been of course the first thing on my mind this morning, it really seemed like it was about to happen, in fact that it began happening already and ‘I’ pulled back somehow. This thing of “it is too good to be true” seemed to be ‘my’ way back, ‘I’ darted through the door just as it was closing behind ‘me’.

Hi Kuba,

Lol, the way you wrote it – which door closed “behind ‘me’”? You never went through a door.

You have gathered as much surety as ‘I’ can ever have about the safety of infinitude.

What you seem to be missing is gay abandon.

I re-read this quote just now and it could give you pause of planning to dart back and forth from the door of ‘self’-immolation too readily –

RESPONDENT: I’d guess you’d favour the ‘boots and all’ approach, but just to be sure, is there anything one should be specially careful of?
RICHARD: Hesitancy (an opportunity is quite often a very rare thing).
RESPONDENT: Am I understanding you correctly that, once the process begins, you throw caution to the wind and just go all the way, come what may?
RICHARD: Provided there be pure intent (and that is no little proviso) … yes. [emphasis added] (link)

Just thought I let you know.

Kuba: It seems that the certainty that would have ‘me’ self-immolate now could be used with complete reliability every time if needed, this is how sure ‘I’ need to be.

It looks to me that the only thing ‘you’ are sure of now is how ‘you’ can escape your final destiny, as in “it is too good to be true”.

Cheers Vineeto

[Kub933]

@Vineeto

It looks to me that the only thing ‘you’ are sure of now is how ‘you’ can escape your final destiny, as in “it is too good to be true”.

Yes it is ‘my’ last escape route, and I thought there was no more objections left haha. I am missing gay abandon yes, this is exactly correct. Because at the moment when the door presented itself ‘I’ held back with “it’s too good to be true” rather than walking through with gay abandon.
“Too good to be true” was a way back to ‘my’ familiar suffering.

[Kub933]

@Vineeto

I re-read this quote just now and it could give you pause of planning to dart back and forth from the door of ‘self’-immolation too readily –

Haha yes thank you you did exactly just that - gave me pause from trying to go back into planning, who knows maybe I would have resurrected the problem solver even or perhaps ‘he’ was already slowly rising from the dead .

So I see now is the time to join the party and dance.

@Vineeto

You have gathered as much surety as ‘I’ can ever have about the safety of infinitude.

Yes indeed there is a lot of surety, in fact ‘I’ never thought it would be possible to get this close, to have as much surety in the ultimate beneficence of the universe.

@Vineeto

RESPONDENT: I’d guess you’d favour the ‘boots and all’ approach, but just to be sure, is there anything one should be specially careful of?
RICHARD: Hesitancy (an opportunity is quite often a very rare thing).
RESPONDENT: Am I understanding you correctly that, once the process begins, you throw caution to the wind and just go all the way, come what may?
RICHARD: Provided there be pure intent (and that is no little proviso) … yes. [emphasis added] (link)

There is certainly pure intent and there was seemingly a ‘boots and all’ approach but it was in name only. Because now I can see just what it means to proceed ‘boots and all’ without hesitancy - it means proceeding with gay abandon into that purity and perfection.

[Vineeto]

Kuba: So I see now is the time to join the party and dance.
Yes indeed there is a lot of surety, in fact ‘I’ never thought it would be possible to get this close, to have as much surety in the ultimate beneficence of the universe.
There is certainly pure intent and there was seemingly a ‘boots and all’ approach but it was in name only. Because now I can see just what it means to proceed ‘boots and all’ without hesitancy - it means proceeding with gay abandon into that purity and perfection.

Hi Kuba,

By the time you arrive in the actual world there will be a well-laid-out path to ‘self’-immolation with listing all the benefits and pitfalls and possible escape route and strange and thrilling adventures thanks to your and Claudiu’s extensive reports.

It reminds me of Richard writing about in-control virtual freedom which ‘Peter’ and ‘Vineeto’ so eloquently waxed about –

[Richard]: What Peter has been doing, in conjunction with Vineeto, is what he characterised as beating down all the long, dry grass (and every single bit of persistent regrowth) leading up to and obscuring the gate in the fence separating it from the greener pastures on the other side.
As such they have both done a sterling service for their fellow human beings – having written prolifically about it all whilst they were doing it (rather than after the fact from memory) – in ensuring an in-control virtual freedom is now possible for any normal person/normal couple simply by applying the actualism method – as distinct from the actualism process – in their everyday life (both at work and at leisure). (Library, Topics, Virtual Freedom, last tool-tip).

Well done.

Cheers Vineeto

[claudiu]

@Kub933

It seems that the certainty that would have ‘me’ self-immolate now could be used with complete reliability every time if needed, this is how sure ‘I’ need to be.

“every time if needed” implies there will be many times it’s needed, i.e. that you are planning on not doing it! You only need to do it once! Coming up with strategems to use “every time” you are close is a sure sign you are planning on being close but not going through the door!

[claudiu]

Hi Vineeto,

@Vineeto

[To Kuba:] What you seem to be missing is gay abandon.

I re-read this quote just now and it could give you pause of planning to dart back and forth from the door of ‘self’-immolation too readily –

RESPONDENT: I’d guess you’d favour the ‘boots and all’ approach, but just to be sure, is there anything one should be specially careful of?
RICHARD: Hesitancy (an opportunity is quite often a very rare thing).
RESPONDENT: Am I understanding you correctly that, once the process begins, you throw caution to the wind and just go all the way, come what may?
RICHARD: Provided there be pure intent (and that is no little proviso) … yes. [emphasis added] (link)

Just thought I let you know.

That’s a great quote. I’ve often wondered lately, is it really just throwing caution to the wind and forging forth? Not sure if I thought of it in those exact words (maybe) but along those lines. Sounds like the answer is (as pure intent is certainly in place) yes indeed . It gives good confidence to proceed!

To put it into words it’s about leaving the felt safety for what is outside of the felt safety, which I apperceptively or near-apperceptively know is the actual safety of infinitude – which ought really to be an obvious choice. Perhaps, after much pondering and contemplating, it is indeed just gay abandon that is required.

Cheers,
Claudiu

[Kub933]

Journal de Henry

Yes certainly I wasn’t suggesting that going back to trading solely physical goods would be the solution, of course this is way too impractical. I don’t think I was thinking as far as solutions just yet It is fascinating to begin exploring this topic of exploitation and peasant mentality. I have experienced it since yesterday as if these clouds that were the remnant and unexplored aspects of social identity / peasant mentality have began clearing away and making way for an even grea…

Continuing with this one here. I was driving with my brother to visit our dad yesterday and we got onto talking about that very exploitative system. He mentioned that something like a universal basic income would be a good thing however if this happened people would descend into depression with nothing to do.

I found this interesting because the only reason people would “fall into a depression” is because their entire sense of identity has been constructed specifically to forever feed back into society. All ‘my’ feelings of being a valued group member are predicated upon doing specifically this. So yes as people currently are they would fall into a depression, but this is not set in stone.

Of course the ‘me’ that only knows ‘himself’ as a group member will fall into a depression when ‘he’ can no longer score points within the group. But this isn’t the fate of humankind forever, we are not stuck like this.

That entire edifice of beliefs, values, responsibilities, obligations etc can come crumbling down, then I no longer need to score points within the group in order to feel valued. Then I can take full due of the benefits that the modern way of living provides without descending into a depression.

How twisted is it that the ‘meaning of life’ is apparently in forever having to ‘earn my worth’, that ‘my’ very meaning is to forever feed into society, so much so that ‘I’ would reject leisure and freedom and continue living as if a peasant instead.

It was fascinating to observe the gridlock in my brother, that he just couldn’t quite allow that life could be perfect without any of those values that come from society. I pointed to the example of our half brother who is still young. That we both observed him having the time of his life whilst doing nothing ‘productive’ at all. There was no “descent into depression” at all, instead there was delight, intimacy, enjoyment and naiveté.

[Vineeto]

Kuba: It looks that something has shifted although I don’t have the specifics worked out yet. But before it was that I explored the various beliefs that constituted ‘my’ social identity and worked through them one by one.
But there was this whole other angle that I never saw, which was the peasant mentality and the exploitation inherent in it. This is what clicked it seems, and it has provided this surety and this inability to take any of those values seriously anymore.
I am fascinated to see what is still left of it, but for now it is like the last legs that this thing was standing on have been kicked out. Because there were already some significant dents in the construct of ‘my’ social identity and now I discovered that this entire system has no redeeming features whatsoever and it seems I just stepped out of it, as in I quit playing that game even though I still show up to work etc.
It seems that his thread that was pulled out just keeps going, for those values from the social identity / peasant mentality would trickle-down even into my table manners or how I relate with the shopkeeper. It is such an incredible freedom, it’s unbelievable that this is possible whilst still remaining a ‘self’. (link)

Hi Kuba,

This is excellent news and demonstrates just how important it is to be aware of and understand the mechanisms of peasant mentality. And, as Richard emphasized, you don’t have to change society –

Richard: Which neatly brings me to the point of detailing these above examples: understanding the ‘whys and wherefores’ of peasant-mentality is not about effecting social change but being free of it in oneself.
In the seventh paragraph of ‘Article 20’ (appended further below) I have highlighted the relevant sentence. Viz.:

• [Richard]: Astonishingly, I find that social change is unnecessary; I can live freely in the community as-it-is. [endquote].

In other words, one is then free to conform with the legal laws and observe the social protocols – to ‘go along with’, to ‘pay lip-service to’ – whilst no longer believing in them.
‘Tis a remarkable freedom in itself – with no need to rebel at all – as all rebellion stems, primarily, from that deeply-held primordial feeling of disfranchisement (and its associated feelings of resentment, envy, cynicism, and so on and so forth). (Richard, List D, Claudiu3, 18 May 2015)

Another point to remember is when you talk about the “exploitation inherent in it” –

Richard: “Can I emotionally accept that which is intellectually unacceptable? This way intelligence need not be compromised … intelligence will no longer be crippled.” (Richard, List B, James2, 18 Aug 2001)

Kuba: I was driving with my brother to visit our dad yesterday and we got onto talking about that very exploitative system. He mentioned that something like a universal basic income would be a good thing however if this happened people would descend into depression with nothing to do.

Before you go further into theorising about your brother’s guess what might happen, you can find some facts of what did happen with small preliminary pilot-projects experimenting with temporary “universal basic income” in various geographical areas – (Universal basic income pilots - Wikipedia). Surprising for many the outcome is not at all as anticipated.

A quick search for “universal income experiment” (link) showed the following experimentally demonstrated benefits –

“UBI experiments?

• Financial relief: UBI can provide immediate financial relief, allowing recipients to meet basic needs and support others.
• Flexibility: UBI can give recipients more flexibility and autonomy.
• Health: UBI may reduce the likelihood of being sick, improve food security, and increase money spent on health care.
• Employment: UBI may not increase or decrease employment rates.
• Life satisfaction: UBI may increase life satisfaction and well-being.” (Sam Altman, McKinsey, Wikipedia)

Kuba: I found this interesting because the only reason people would “fall into a depression” is because their entire sense of identity has been constructed specifically to forever feed back into society. All ‘my’ feelings of being a valued group member are predicated upon doing specifically this. So yes as people currently are they would fall into a depression, but this is not set in stone.
Of course the ‘me’ that only knows ‘himself’ as a group member will fall into a depression when ‘he’ can no longer score points within the group. But this isn’t the fate of humankind forever, we are not stuck like this.
That entire edifice of beliefs, values, responsibilities, obligations etc can come crumbling down, then I no longer need to score points within the group in order to feel valued. Then I can take full due of the benefits that the modern way of living provides without descending into a depression.

The outcome of a permanent ‘UBI’ may be different should it ever be instituted permanently but, given that the basic income so far only provides for low-grade living expenses and not additional ‘luxury’ items, many of the “beliefs, values, responsibilities, obligations” would still be operating as before and people would use their talents, skills and creativity to obtain those ‘luxury items’. It also would not automatically do away with “scoring points”, i.e. competition.

Kuba: How twisted is it that the ‘meaning of life’ is apparently in forever having to ‘earn my worth’, that ‘my’ very meaning is to forever feed into society, so much so that ‘I’ would reject leisure and freedom and continue living as if a peasant instead.
It was fascinating to observe the gridlock in my brother, that he just couldn’t quite allow that life could be perfect without any of those values that come from society. I pointed to the example of our half brother who is still young. That we both observed him having the time of his life whilst doing nothing ‘productive’ at all. There was no “descent into depression” at all, instead there was delight, intimacy, enjoyment and naiveté. (link)

Ha, you brother’s “gridlock” might increase when you tell him that people don’t necessarily fall into depression with a small permanent income. It also speaks volumes what hold your own conditioning has had on you (as it had on ‘Vineeto’), wrestling with the typical Western work-ethic of ‘earning one’s worth’, and ‘justifying one’s existence’, ‘have I done anything useful today?’ on this bountiful planet earth on which we already live. One of the most common resentments in response to this imbibed pressure is the sulkingly felt disgruntlement of ‘I didn’t ask to be born’ (so why should I justify my existence?).

It is wonderful to be free of all of this! There is no responsibility in the actual world.

Richard: I have no sense of responsibility whatsoever … the ‘I’ that was took full responsibility and an action that was not of ‘his’ doing resulted. (Richard, List B, No. 13, 14 June 1999)
Richard: I do not know how to be serious … I have no sense of responsibility whatsoever. Life is fun. (Richard, List B, No. 25c, 12 Aug 1999)

Cheers Vineeto

[Kub933]

It clicked yesterday that the only thing going wrong is ‘me’… It is progressively more out of the norm to experience any kind of descent into feeling bad which means when this does happen in any degree I am always fascinated to discover just what is going on!

Yesterday there were 2 times when this happened, first one was when me and @Sonyaxx went to give notice to get married, there was a sense in which it was a very formal set up with serious questions being asked etc Although I could very much tell that the friendly official taking us through the process did not intend it to be so! Nevertheless I found myself getting a little stressed through this process and fumbling on some of the questions. It was lovely not to fight this and instead to accept that this is what feeling beings do and ‘I’ am a feeling being.
Second one was teaching BJJ in the evening and again fumbling as I was demonstrating a technique to the class.

After both of these events the initial ‘solution’ seemed to not make any mistakes, right? Because if ‘I’ never fumbled in any way then ‘I’ would be ‘perfect’ and then no reason to ever feel bad. It took me about a second of contemplating going down this route to see that it is an utter dead end though, only further stress and anxiety exists in that direction, also sincerity (and therefore naiveté) will not be found there.

It clicked then that the only thing ‘wrong’ in any of these events was ‘my’ emotional reaction, that fumbling or not that meeting with the official could have been an utterly amicable situation for everyone concerned. That when I was demonstrating the technique and “something went wrong”, it was ‘my’ emotional reaction that was the something. I saw that many times in my life I experienced mistakes and errors whilst feeling felicitous and innocuous and somehow nothing was going wrong (in an ultimate sense). This is when it clicked, it made me think of what Richard wrote that the perfection and purity of the actual world has no need for precautions, it is an organic perfection and purity, not a manufactured one. What I could see is that in actuality (because of the inherent perfection and purity) there is plenty of room for errors and mistakes and yet that perfection and purity is unassailable - thus one is free to fumble happily. And the same with felicity and innocuity, ‘I’ don’t have to become some “serious perfectionist” in order to manufacture an artificial perfection. ‘I’ can go about in the world naively and fumble happily if fumbling is to happen. The thing that has been going wrong all along is only ‘me’, the world of people, things and events has been doing just fine all this time!

[Kub933]

hehe contemplating the above I see that the “high achiever” has indeed laid down ‘his’ burden! Or rather ‘he’ has become retired, that burden of ‘being’ itself is still to be laid down, but quite a big layer of the onion has been removed.

[Vineeto]

Kuba: It clicked then that the only thing ‘wrong’ in any of these events was ‘my’ emotional reaction, that fumbling or not that meeting with the official could have been an utterly amicable situation for everyone concerned. That when I was demonstrating the technique and “something went wrong”, it was ‘my’ emotional reaction that was the something. I saw that many times in my life I experienced mistakes and errors whilst feeling felicitous and innocuous and somehow nothing was going wrong (in an ultimate sense). This is when it clicked, it made me think of what Richard wrote that the perfection and purity of the actual world has no need for precautions, it is an organic perfection and purity, not a manufactured one. (link)

Hi Kuba,

You might like those examples – Richard just said “oops” when he made a mistake, no big deal –

RICHARD: […] Oops … both a typo and a mis-spelling in one post
‘ … the very fact not ‘being’ renders any different way of ‘being’ impossible …’.
‘ … the very fact of not ‘being’ renders any different way of ‘being’ impossible …’.

‘ … we had figured the whole focus on something better than love and compassion would be more palatble if the gender of the actually free person remained unknown …’.
‘ … we had figured the whole focus on something better than love and compassion would be more palatable if the gender of the actually free person remained unknown …’.
Ha … perhaps it signals a retirement from writing as being in order.

(Postscript 2):
Golly … a mis-dating as well:
‘ … from November 1996 to December 1997 …’.
‘ … from November 1995 to December 1996 …’.
(No smart-aleck comment this time around).
Regards, Richard. (Richard, List D, No. 12, 9 Dec 2009a).

And this one (my favourite) –

Richard (to Respondent): (…) the only guaranteed-to-be-accurate suppository of authentic reports/ descriptions/ explanations of an actual freedom from the human condition.
Richard: I haven’t had such a good laugh in quite a while. Viz.:

suppository: a conical or cylindrical pellet designed to be inserted into the rectum or vagina to melt and release a medicament or serve as a lubricant’. (Oxford Dictionary).

Thus the above section reads something like this (for example):

• [example only]: ‘… the only guaranteed-to-be-accurate pellet designed to be inserted into the rectum or vagina to melt and release authentic reports/ descriptions/ explanations of an actual freedom from the human condition’ [end example].

So much for … um … choosing my words very carefully, eh?
(Although it does lend a whole new connotation to the word ‘osmosis’ than normally found in dictionaries).
What the word should have been, of course, is repository. Viz.:

repository: a receptacle, building, or other place, in which things are or may be deposited or stored (…)’. ~ (Oxford Dictionary).

Oh, well … c’est la vie, I guess.
Regards, Richard. (Richard, List D, No. 4, 16 May 2009).

Cheers Vineeto

[Kub933]

It is interesting observing my dog poncho… I notice that he has a natural capacity to operate in hierarchies. When he is with other dogs that he can dominate then he will naturally occupy that dominant position (and the other dog will ‘fit in’ below him). With me he naturally takes the submissive position. I have wondered at this before and this kind of instinctive behaviour (which exists in dogs but does not in lizards for example) must have developed in order to allow mammals to operate in groups. This ability to operate in groups eventually allowed that which humans are now to develop.

It’s very interesting contemplating this because it shows that the affective faculties at the time of their development were “as good as it gets”. In the sense that the instinctual passions developed before intelligence operated. As such that mechanism of the rudimentary ‘self’ would have been the “cutting edge technology” of the day, one that would allow the organism to flourish.

Then came this ability to form ‘groups’ and to operate within them, where the hierarchy would have once again been the “cutting edge tool”. The kind of intelligence that humans posses was still nowhere to be found so these mechanisms such as the hierarchy, the power, the winner/looser, these would have allowed once again for organisms to flourish by existing in groups.

These things (at the time of their development) were nothing to be sneezed at! These were cutting edge mechanisms that were allowing organisms to progressively flourish. Poncho is not intelligent as I am intelligent but I can see how this ability to operate in a hierarchy is to his benefit. The prime example of that is because it offers him the benefits of living with me! He is naturally inclined to remain forever ‘underneath’ me and this serves him a huge benefit.

I just wanted to write this because it dawned on me this morning (when his ears were down as I was telling him off for digging through trash ) that these affective mechanisms are indeed the root cause of human suffering and mayhem BUT these things (once upon the time) were like the shiny new car with all the latest gadgets.

Seeing this is just another reason why any resentment towards the universe is silly, it is not just that these mechanisms were required in the absence of intelligence, they were also some pretty impressive new “technology” for their day. It’s amazing that this stuff could even develop like so in the first place. Blind nature is a good way to describe this ‘force’ and yet even blind nature did some impressive work.

[Kub933]

Vineeto to Scout :

It is also important to keep in mind that you cannot become free from being in a PCE, nor by the ‘self’ “evaporating” in PCEs, but by naively enjoying and appreciating being alive, so much so that you become naiveté itself and give up the controls. Then one is able to make a once-in-a-lifetime deliberate and conscious decision to willingly and irremunerably ‘self’-immolate in toto. The doorway to an actual freedom has the word ‘extinction’ written on it, which can only happen while ‘I’ and ‘me’ are not in abeyance.

When I read this advice it stood out to me so clearly that this is exactly what I need to do now - “naively enjoying and appreciating being alive, so much so that you become naiveté itself and give up the controls. Then one is able to make a once-in-a-lifetime deliberate and conscious decision to willingly and irremunerably ‘self’-immolate in toto.”

Vineeto also wrote to me :

But all these very serious and philosophical, albeit passionate, deliberations can fall by the wayside when you are having so much fun being alive, being naiveté (the closest an identity can be to actual innocence), that experiencing this felicity and appreciation is way more enjoyable and preferable to any ideas of afterlife standards or fantasies of reverend tombstones ‘you’ can ever erect.

Contemplating self-immolation before had this exact flavour, passionate and serious deliberations. It doesn’t mean it wasn’t sincere but there was something in that energy that prevented a gay abandon. That even when the possibility to self-immolate presented itself ‘I’ bailed out with the “too good to be true”. The ‘weight’ of this passionate and serious energy somehow kept ‘me’ in place.

This advice to “become naiveté itself” has been gently working away and of course it is key that ‘I’ do not make this into a serious business all over again! Indeed “‘being’ naiveté itself” is the closest ‘I’ can come to actual innocence. This is the answer I was looking for (in the wrong direction) when I was considering attaining “higher standards”.

There is a certain flavour that comes to the fore when ‘I’ am ‘being’ naiveté itself, it is a festive/magical flavour, It is exactly like being a kid in a world of wonder. I think in the past I ascribed these experiences to actuality but they are not, because I remember the PCE a few weeks back where it was apperceived that time has no duration, that world of the PCE was a completely different world, as if a different dimension that ‘I’ have absolutely no access to. Of course ‘I’ cannot take any standards of ‘mine’ over there, the gap is impossible to cross for ‘me’ or any of ‘my’ belongings.

And I can see clearer now that ‘I’ never cross that gap, attempting to do this would get very serious very soon, rather ‘I’ can ‘be’ naiveté itself and go into gay abandon - then the magic can unfold…

[Vineeto]

Vineeto to Scout: It is also important to keep in mind that you cannot become free from being in a PCE, nor by the ‘self’ “evaporating” in PCEs, but by naively enjoying and appreciating being alive, so much so that you become naiveté itself and give up the controls. Then one is able to make a once-in-a-lifetime deliberate and conscious decision to willingly and irremunerably ‘self’-immolate in toto. The doorway to an actual freedom has the word ‘extinction’ written on it, which can only happen while ‘I’ and ‘me’ are not in abeyance.

Kuba: When I read this advice it stood out to me so clearly that this is exactly what I need to do now – “naively enjoying and appreciating being alive, so much so that you become naiveté itself and give up the controls. Then one is able to make a once-in-a-lifetime deliberate and conscious decision to willingly and irremunerably ‘self’-immolate in toto.”

Hi Kuba,

Excellent.

You have done everything else you could possibly think of – hence this is the last ‘activity’ left to ‘you’.

You have already seen through power, pride, being ‘perfect’ as ‘me’, ‘after-life’ standards and even humanity itself, so there is nothing else which could distract you from “naively enjoying and appreciating being alive, so much so that you become naiveté itself” all the way to actual innocence.

Vineeto also wrote to me:

But all these very serious and philosophical, albeit passionate, deliberations can fall by the wayside when you are having so much fun being alive, being naiveté (the closest an identity can be to actual innocence), that experiencing this felicity and appreciation is way more enjoyable and preferable to any ideas of afterlife standards or fantasies of reverend tombstones ‘you’ can ever erect.

Kuba: Contemplating self-immolation before had this exact flavour, passionate and serious deliberations. It doesn’t mean it wasn’t sincere but there was something in that energy that prevented a gay abandon. That even when the possibility to self-immolate presented itself ‘I’ bailed out with the “too good to be true”. The ‘weight’ of this passionate and serious energy somehow kept ‘me’ in place.
This advice to “become naiveté itself” has been gently working away and of course it is key that ‘I’ do not make this into a serious business all over again! Indeed “‘being’ naiveté itself” is the closest ‘I’ can come to actual innocence. This is the answer I was looking for (in the wrong direction) when I was considering attaining “higher standards”.
There is a certain flavour that comes to the fore when ‘I’ am ‘being’ naiveté itself, it is a festive/magical flavour, It is exactly like being a kid in a world of wonder. I think in the past I ascribed these experiences to actuality but they are not, because I remember the PCE a few weeks back where it was apperceived that time has no duration, that world of the PCE was a completely different world, as if a different dimension that ‘I’ have absolutely no access to. Of course ‘I’ cannot take any standards of ‘mine’ over there, the gap is impossible to cross for ‘me’ or any of ‘my’ belongings.
And I can see clearer now that ‘I’ never cross that gap, attempting to do this would get very serious very soon, rather ‘I’ can ‘be’ naiveté itself and go into gay abandon – then the magic can unfold… (link)

This is wonderful to read. Once it really sinks in that you cannot take anything of ‘you’ with you into the actual world, that in fact you wouldn’t want to take anything ‘dirty’ with you even if it was possible, then there is nothing which holds ‘you’ here in the real world. Nothing. No yesterday and no tomorrow. Then you do “stand naked before infinitude” and that is inconceivable, miraculous, amazing, wonderous and immense.

Cheers Vineeto

[Kub933]

@Vineeto

You have done everything else you could possibly think of – hence this is the last ‘activity’ left to ‘you’.

You have already seen through power, pride, being ‘perfect’ as ‘me’, ‘after-life’ standards and even humanity itself, so there is nothing else which could distract you from “naively enjoying and appreciating being alive, so much so that you become naiveté itself” all the way to actual innocence.

Hehe yes I read this yesterday and it clicked that it is indeed so. There was a sense of a job well done, because a few years ago ‘I’ looked at this mountain that seemed impossible to dismantle and yet this is exactly what happened, it was patiently dismantled. It seems it was another thing to then realise that this is so, for a while I was habitually looking for the next thing, ‘I’ wanted to keep ‘my’ sleeves rolled up and continue shifting the rubble.

Whereas “naively enjoying and appreciating being alive, so much so that you become naiveté itself” is the recognition that there is nothing else to be done but to enjoy and appreciate in gay abandon. This is exactly what is currently ramping up.

At times there is this sense of ‘oh shit’ ‘I’ have forgotten something, ‘I’ must get back to work and then I do a quick scan and realise that there is nothing to be done! In that moment it appears that whatever success ‘I’ have attained is due to ‘my’ control, whereas it’s actually the other way around.
It reminds me of Richard speaking to ‘Vineeto’ in the out from control DVD and ‘Vineeto’ describing the “perfect set up of ‘her’ life”, and still there is that ‘I’ wanting to reassert some kind of control, this is a burden, an unnecessary one! In the final assessment it is all silly, just how Richard (in the DVD) gives the example of the ‘me’ popping up and needing to go to the toilet, this is nonsense.

@Vineeto

This is wonderful to read. Once it really sinks in that you cannot take anything of ‘you’ with you into the actual world, that in fact you wouldn’t want to take anything ‘dirty’ with you even if it was possible, then there is nothing which holds ‘you’ here in the real world. Nothing. No yesterday and no tomorrow. Then you do “stand naked before infinitude” and that is inconceivable, miraculous, amazing, wonderous and immense.

Yes and it has been very useful to realise that those experiences which I previously ascribed to actuality were experiences of ‘being’ naiveté itself. So ‘I’ created an unnecessary boundary that ‘I’ was then getting ‘my’ knickers in a twist about crossing
It is because ‘being’ naiveté itself the world is already so magical, so fairy tale like and yet there is still that gulf of impassable proportions (for the ‘me’) which separates that experience and actuality, actuality is always a whole new world.
It seems when ‘being’ naiveté itself there is something like “intimations of actuality”, as in that magical/fairytale like flavour is what flows from actuality, and yet it is not actuality yet. A while ago I posted these works of art :

I wrote then that they seemed to depict the flavour of the final destination, a world of wonder where nothing of ‘reality’ exists. And yet ‘being’ naiveté itself is as if ‘I’ am in one of those pictures already.

And this is great to discover! That ‘I’ can go ahead and live where it is so magical, so fairytale like, just like ‘I’ did as a young child, and I remember these experiences very well these days. So now that I see that no boundary separates ‘me’ from experiencing life in this manner ‘I’ can allow it.
It makes sense now what Richard said about the application of the method eventually requiring the words “betterer”, that ‘I’ could have something so incredible whilst still remaining ‘me’.

And that place is where ‘I’ can disappear into oblivion from, there is nothing painful or serious about that at all!

[Kub933]

Oh my goodness it makes sense now! I took the incorrect assumption that those experiences were actuality and then understanding that ‘I’ cannot self-immolate from a PCE ‘I’ banished ‘myself’ from those experiences, the only place ‘I’ could go back to was ‘my’ identity of the hard worker, of the problem-resolver. I banished myself from remaining where it is so magical for no good reason at all, and hence I entered a “parenthesis period” that lasted months!

I wrote last September in this post :

Kuba: And it is this ‘very strange’ aspect that I cannot put into words but it is beyond wonderful to experience. How is it that I am having experiences where it is as if ‘I’ and ‘reality’ never existed in the first place, where the actual world is simply the only thing in existence, where it has always been like this and it could not be any other way.
And yet there is the memory (fading though) of ‘my’ life and of ‘reality’, did it ever exist? The weirdest thing is that this can flip in a matter of seconds, as in 1 moment ‘I’ exist and do ‘my’ thing and then the next it’s as if ‘I’ never existed in the first place.
It’s like some weird amnesia and I find myself yo-yoing between these, but the whole thing is utterly safe, there is not even a trace of fear or resistance to this, it’s such a delight to experience myself like this.
It seems the most wonderful thing about actuality is that it is all there is! Seeing this brings a safety and a completeness that has to be experienced to be known, it is indeed beyond ‘my’ wildest dreams.

@Vineeto you replied that :

What a marvellous wondrous ride indeed!

Are you perhaps wondering – in “seeing this brings a safety and a completeness” – why you would want to continue to “flip in a matter of seconds” ?

Is it because … perchance … there is still one job to do ?
The last job … to give permission … to allow it to happen … forevermore … irrevocably …

How I mistook that advice… for that permission was to be given from those very experiences because these were NOT PCEs, these were experiences of the near-innocence of naiveté itself. They were experiences where actuality was always immanent but these were not PCEs.

[Vineeto]

Kuba: It seems when ‘being’ naiveté itself there is something like “intimations of actuality”, as in that magical/fairytale like flavour is what flows from actuality, and yet it is not actuality yet. A while ago I posted these works of art :

I wrote then that they seemed to depict the flavour of the final destination, a world of wonder where nothing of ‘reality’ exists. And yet ‘being’ naiveté itself is as if ‘I’ am in one of those pictures already.
And this is great to discover! That ‘I’ can go ahead and live where it is so magical, so fairytale like, just like ‘I’ did as a young child, and I remember these experiences very well these days. So now that I see that no boundary separates ‘me’ from experiencing life in this manner ‘I’ can allow it.

Exactly. You said it in your next post –

Kuba: How I mistook that advice… for that permission was to be given from those very experiences because these were NOT PCEs, these were experiences of the near-innocence of naiveté itself. They were experiences where actuality was always immanent but these were not PCEs. (link)

You certainly rediscovered the magical fairytale-like world when ‘being naiveté’ which Richard has been describing, from where the transition to your destiny is “highly possible” –

Rick: … For clarity and accuracy sake, ‘So, what makes it ‘highly possible’ to be actually free (in this quoted section), is not the information or knowledge [concerning an actual freedom from the human condition that you made to the public], but a virtual freedom.
Richard: … That particular quote, located online in ‘Selected Writings’, is an extract from ‘Richard’s Journal’ wherein it goes on to say (five sentences later) that a virtual freedom is the essential precursor to the ultimate condition.
The virtual freedom being referred to in ‘Richard’s Journal’ is, of course, the full-blown experiencing of it: an out-from-being-under-control and, thus, different way of being nowadays known as an ongoing excellence experience.
(This ongoing excellence experience is what the methodological aspect of a virtual freedom – a persistent and diligent application of the actualism method – can morph into whenever that current-time awareness method has been applied to a sufficiency for that to occur/ have happen).
This penultimate out-from-under-control/ different-way-of-being is barely distinguishable from a pure consciousness experience.
(It was from this ongoing excellence experiencing that pure consciousness experiences occurred on a near-daily basis – sometimes two-three times a day – for the identity inhabiting this flesh and blood body all those years ago).
Hence ‘highly possible’. (Richard, List D, Rick, 13 May 2009).

Kuba: It makes sense now what Richard said about the application of the method eventually requiring the words “betterer”, that ‘I’ could have something so incredible whilst still remaining ‘me’.
And that place is where ‘I’ can disappear into oblivion from, there is nothing painful or serious about that at all! (link)

I couldn’t find the word “betterer” but it fits. There is indeed “nothing painful or serious” (ha, what gave you that idea in the first place?) – on the contrary, it is the best time of ‘your’ life … until it gets “bester”. (Richard, List D, No. 11, 25 Nov 2009a).

Cheers Vineeto ♫♪ ♫ ♪

[Kub933]

Roy's Journal

This quote made it click for me now, I still had some residual issues with authority in that I could see that there is a genuine authority that comes from expertise and yet I was trying to eliminate all authority, but that would be going back to humility too! This is obvious in my BJJ training, I am an expert at this point and there is a genuine authority that this infers, this authority is a natural result of expertise/competence. Yet this authority does not have any power, in fact it does no…

Continuing with this one here. Yesterday I was contemplating this very thing of authority, of the confidence of knowing. I always wanted to live like so, in total confidence, it is possible as it is clear that this is the case in a PCE. Yet whenever I write here there is (no matter how slight) this sense of doubt, especially as @Vineeto is involved on the forum and so there is the actual knowing that ‘my’ understanding can be readily contrasted against.

And what I realised is that ‘I’ will never match up to that actual knowing, it is out of ‘my’ reach. It made sense in the end because ‘I’ am an identity and not a fact, therefore ‘my’ best wisdom can only be a virtual wisdom. This goal of living in total certainty (as in a complete absence of doubt) is only possible for this flesh and blood body. This body is a fact and so it is not precluded from actual knowing, however ‘I’ am.

This was nice to acknowledge, that the very nature of what ‘I’ am as an identity is to be forever precluded from actual wisdom, ‘I’ simply cannot reach that destination of total certainty as total certainty is sourced in fact, ‘I’ am a belief. Any understanding of the world that ‘I’ have made is necessarily translated in ‘my’ language.
So even though I realised that ‘I’ can never arrive at ‘my’ goal it was actually very beneficial to see, it was like another chunk of the burden dropped. Because it is not ‘my’ fault that ‘I’ come up short time and time again, it is simply not in ‘my’ capacity to arrive at actual wisdom.

Yet this actual wisdom is possible, total certainty is possible, this goal that ‘I’ have is possible for this flesh and blood body to live as an actuality.

[Kub933]

It is very clear lately that the way forward is for ‘me’ to go into gay abandon, that this is the last direction ‘I’ go into, as it will be a one way ticket. Most of the time ‘I’ am teeter-tottering right on the edge of this. At times there is some degree of control, it is ‘me’ living ‘my’ life, from this vantage point there is still a way back to some semblance of ‘normality’.

Then there is the other direction where ‘I’ release whatever remnant controls and go into gay abandon. It is very clear at this point that the universe does not force anyone to become actually free, it is at the end of the day a personal choice as to which way I travel.

It does take some mettle to proceed in this direction however, not that it is difficult or unpleasant in any way but more so because it is so different. What a hard sell that is, to go irrevocably into a fairytale-like world

But looking back now this is the same “force” that I experienced throughout the whole journey with actualism, it is this weird and perverse attachment to the ‘known’. This “force” is why actualism is ‘difficult’, in that ‘I’ will intuitively drift towards that which is already known, no matter how terrible this ‘known’ is and will experience anything outside of it as utterly dangerous.
So looking back now all the plateaus that I have experienced were periods where I was making up my mind as to whether I am ready for more.
The choice to proceed was always available but ‘I’ would hang back and come up with “issues too solve” whilst ‘I’ was making up ‘my’ mind. Here ‘I’ am doing exactly this .

It is the weirdest of things though, that going towards a world of enjoyment and appreciation only is taboo, there is this deep aspect of ‘me’ which feels this is simply not allowed. ‘I’ will engage in the most impressive gymnastics to find some reason as to why this shouldn’t happen and yet at this point it is all for naught because ‘I’ know what ‘I’ have already begun.

Right now I can’t even put a name to the objection, rather it is as if the entire force of ‘my’ being says it is dangerous and therefore not allowed.

…

It is the fear of irrevocability!

It’s like I am cleaning out the house and there are these old dirty shoes that I haven’t worn in 5 years and yet I cannot bring myself to put them in the bin, because “what if”? What if they are one day needed, what if there is some potentiality that I haven’t prepared for or accounted for.
There is a mountain of reasons as to why these shoes need to go and not a single good reason for why they should be kept, but it is the fear of irrevocability, once it happens it is done. Then what if I wanted to go back? there would be nothing to go back to.

And these deliberations… They seem so silly, like ‘I’ am making the most ridiculous argument and ‘I’ know it is a terribly weak argument, ‘I’ don’t even agree with it ‘myself’!

And yet this is it, because if ‘I’ do go into gay abandon then ‘I’ no longer have a way back, then it is already in motion. ‘I’ do not self-immolate ‘myself’ and yet ‘I’ do something which will guarantee an end to ‘me’. So ‘I’ am hanging onto this “most ridiculous argument” as it is the last thing that can buy ‘me’ some time.

This reminds me of Srinath writing :

You are there holding both the existential options of living as a feeling being and living as the body in focus and trying to make a case for living as the body. Once the case is made – and there’s no way too know how exactly that will be done for each individual – you will be actually free.

Right now the case is heavily swaying in one direction, and ‘I’ don’t have any more evidence to produce