what do you have to lose?
Hi @Kuba,
I think you understand what this caring meant in âVineetoâsâ situation which lead to âherâ âselfâ-immolation in contrast to what feeling beings usually experience as caring for another but I would like to recapitulate the distinction for everyoneâs benefit â
Richard: 4. This moment-to-moment experiencing of a caring which is not self-centred/ self-centric provided âherâ with the experiential convincement that actualising such caring, via âselfâ-immolation, was the only solution to the human condition; this âhands-onâ understanding as a dynamically present feeling-being â an impressively distinct contrast to having been abeyant during PCEâs â left âherâ with absolutely no choice (lest âsheâ be forever ârearranging the deck-chairs on the Titanicâ).
5. Since a near-actual caring is, of course, epitomised by a vital interest in the suffering of all human beings coming to an end, forever, as a number one priority, then âherâ single-minded focus was essentially centred upon the most immediate way of ensuring this long-awaited global event could begin to take effect the soonest ⌠to wit: bringing âherâ own inevitable demise, at physical death, forward into a liminal imminence.
6. Because the means âsheâ elected to utilise towards these ends was the near-actual intimacy which goes hand-in-hand with a near-actual caring (per favour that afore-mentioned absence of self-centredness/ self-centricity which typifies being out-from-control) ⌠[emphasis added] (Mailing List âDâ Srinath)
Kuba: Am I correctly understanding that in the text you included the âone I cared for most, the one I was closest toâ was referring to the flesh and blood body called Vineeto? As in when âIâ care enough to give to another what they want the most, âIâ am ready to gift it to myself, to manumit this body of âmyâ bondage. [Link]
Yes, you could put it that way. This piece of writing occurred shortly after becoming free so I was not necessarily precise in my choice of apostrophes. The âone I cared for most, the one I was closest toâ applies to both the time before and after becoming actually free, so could also been written as: âone âIâ cared for most, the one âIâ was closest toâ. In fact, it was âVineetoâ caring to give Richard what he wanted most â a female becoming actually free*) â which engendered the necessary altruism for âselfâ-immolation to occur â and thus give each what they wanted most â and give every body even more confidence that it is doable.
*)Richard: Incidentally, her words âto give them what they want mostâ refers to my oft-expressed emphasis on the necessity of a female replicating my condition ⌠(Mailing List âDâ Srinath).
Kuba: But the point is there is this deep caring for a fellow human being to be free, something that is so precious and which âIâ care for sincerely. It is this very same caring which can allow âmeâ to set this body free. [link]
Yes, Kuba, such sincere deep caring can indeed become powerful enough to be actualized into a near-actual-caring and consequently engender the necessarily altruism so that you care for the otherâs actual well-being to such an extent that you are willing to give up âyourâ own precious âselfâ to help facilitate it, sooner rather than later.
And you are spot on when you write â
Kuba: It is easy to downplay the effect that becoming actually free can have on the rest of human kind. But letâs propose a world where âRichardâ and âVineetoâ never proceeded towards self-immolation, then it quickly becomes clear just how important it is. No less than actual peace on earth, and no less than human beings living life in full meaning, each moment again. [link]
Each single person becoming actually free, especially in this early pioneer stage of actualism, has an enormous and unforeseen influence on the spreading of peace on earth and popularizing the actual world.
Cheers Vineeto
3 Likes
James: Thanks for speaking frankly which is what I need. [âŚ]
I appreciate your help and I know that you can assist me in getting to where I need to go. [link]
James: Objections to experiencing pure intent:
Pain and pain meds interfering.
Loss of love to and from ex-wife and no one left.
Its been too long.
Old age.
Sadness.
Donât know how.
Realizing that my life is nearing the end. [link]
Hi @James,
Here is something that even with no connection to pure intent you will be able to do. Acknowledge the fact that death is inevitable, that pain and old age are part of life and especially part of your present condition.
These are facts of life; you can do nothing about them.
What you can do however, when you have some common sense and if you so choose, you can stop objecting to those facts, and also you can recognize and give up the life-long habit of resentment to such facts of life.
Resentment is what turns physical pain into suffering and realizing the nearing of death into anger and fear.
You can do yourself a favour, and recognize and abandon this habitual resentment. You can also, of course, stay as you are and keep suffering. The choice is in your hands and actualism gives you that choice.
Richard: Aye ⌠this is something I come across almost on a daily basis and it is amazing how many people tell me that I am being âoptimisticâ, or âpositiveâ, or âup-beatâ, or that I am âforever trying to talk things upâ. For example, I might comment upon what a great day it is and, as sure as eggs are eggs, the plighted person will find fault (even if only âit wonât lastâ) ⌠or I may say how marvellous it is to be living in a technologically advanced society (take contemporary surgical procedures, for instance, or current dental practice) and a whole litany of doom and gloom comes forth.
Even sitting at a caff by myself, with snippets of nearby conversations drifting by from time-to-time, it is remarkable how much of the content of social chit-chat is, as you say, gripe, grievance, complaint, and resentment ⌠and the last-named is the key to it all (the basic resentment of being alive in the first place).
Until one wakes up to implications and ramifications of the factuality of already being here on this planet earth anyway, whether one wants to be or not (âI didnât ask to be bornâ), one is fated to forever seek consolation and commiseration in the arms (both metaphorically and literally) of another similarly afflicted. Yet the simple fact is that, despite the âI didnât ask to be bornâ rhetoric, one does want to be alive (else one would have committed suicide long ago) and all that it takes is to fully acknowledge this and thus unequivocally say !YES! to being here now as this flesh and blood body ⌠and this affirmation is an unconditional agreement/approval of life itself as-it-is.
I did not ask to be born either (truisms can be so trite) ⌠but I am ever-so-glad that I was. [Richard, Actual Freedom list, Gary, 24 Jun 03]
Cheers Vineeto
5 Likes
@Vineeto , @scout What I have to lose is feeling good and enjoying and appreciating which I am doing right now. I also stand to lose experiencing the 5 minutes Richard spoke of which makes it all worthwhile. I have experienced this before and I know it is doable.
1 Like
It just dawned on me during a wonderful masturbation that it is the flesh and blood body that becomes af after the parasite has left it.
The main problem with this body besides the parasite dwelling there is a degenerative spine for which the spine doctors and the pain doctors havenât freed it from pain so I decided to see a chiropractor that also does acupuncture. He told me about a new procedure where they make a small incision in the back and go in and trim away the degenerative parts. This has an 85% success rate.
I have an appointment with a doctor who does this next week and I expect him to help me and free up my body from pain and then all I have to do is get rid of the parasite that lives there and this body will be af. As Richard said âAinât Life Grandâ.
ps: This was serendipity.
1 Like
Richard: " Yet, perversely, âIâ am addicted to being âmeâ ⌠and it is this addiction which is why there is no peace on earth."
James: @Vineeto I just reread this quote from Richard to me in 2002 that you posted above and I really got it like never before. It is this last line that @geoffrey was talking about. woweee! Iow, humanity is addicted to âmeâ which is suffering which is why there is no peace on earth.
2 Likes
I saw my new back doctor yesterday about the new minimally invasive back procedure which could have solved my back problems. The fact is I canât get it because I have had previous back surgery which would interfere.
No need to be disappointed because that is the fact and I canât do anything about it. It helped me in my recent discussion with @Kub933 to just look at the fact then there is no need to be upset.
6 Likes
@Vineeto Something has shifted for me recently and I am rereading messages you have written to me and seeing them anew. I just reread this message above that I am replying to and it really hit home. This part for example:
" Here is something that even with no connection to pure intent you will be able to do. Acknowledge the fact that death is inevitable, that pain and old age are part of life and especially part of your present condition."
The whole message is gold which I didnât see before. I finally got it: âAcknowledge the fact and stop objecting to those facts.â
Iâm still looking at what you said about resentment. I donât really see my resentment. At least not yet.
2 Likes
James: Something has shifted for me recently and I am rereading messages you have written to me and seeing them anew. I just reread this message above that I am replying to and it really hit home. This part for example:
Vineeto: âHere is something that even with no connection to pure intent you will be able to do. Acknowledge the fact that death is inevitable, that pain and old age are part of life and especially part of your present condition.â
James: The whole message is gold which I didnât see before. I finally got it: âAcknowledge the fact and stop objecting to those facts.â
Iâm still looking at what you said about resentment. I donât really see my resentment. At least not yet. [link]
Hi James,
You say you donât really see your resentment if there is any. Richard usually refers to peopleâs basic resentment like thisâ
Richard: âI located and identified that basic resentment that all people that I have spoken to have. To wit: âI didnât ask to be born!ââ (Mailing List 'AF' Respondent Irene)
There is more correspondence collected (Selected Correspondence: Resentment)
Perhaps you donât have that kind of resentment anymore but there could be minor resentments, possibly resentment about being in pain?
I know from âVineetoâsâ experience that when there was pain there was also an objection/a fear of/a disapproval of feeling this pain. Once âVineetoâ discovered that (and it took her a while), âsheâ could make the deliberate choice to decline this disapproval or resentment of this particular ongoing pain (monthly cramps for instance) and the intensity of it diminished almost instantly to at least half.
I wrote about this to you before - (here) and (here).
Perhaps it is no longer an issue, or perhaps you resent something different?
Cheers Vineeto
3 Likes
Wow Vineeto, I am listening to you like never before and something is happening. Iâm not sure what yet but right now my pain is gone and I havenât taken my pain meds yet. I feel like I have opened up to a new reality. I am finally really getting what you are saying.
5 Likes
Wow, James what an amazing development !
As the saying goes - Let it rip, lol
Cheers Vineeto
2 Likes
Yes and once the facts are seen it is impossible to maintain the resentment. Here is where I would go wrong in the past with this, I wonder if it is the same for you.
Because in the past I would turn this advice in line with something like âjust get on with itâ something like âwell I canât change it so I just have to accept itâ. But I would not go into the effort of exposing the fiction and discovering the facts first. Rather I would try to plaster this platitude over the underlying emotions, without doing any digging in, so the resentment would continue.
I notice this is exactly how people try to deal with their emotions in the real world, there isnât any attempt to fully explore what is going on and instead one is quick to plaster something over the feeling in order to force it to change, and the results are always questionable.
So the way which works (amazingly) is summarised by the quote from Richard which I sent to @Josef the other day :
but once seen, a fact brings freedom from choice and decision. Most people feel, and thus think, that choice implies freedom â having the freedom to choose â but this is not the case. Freedom lies in seeing the obvious, and in seeing the obvious there is no choice, no deliberation, no agonising over the âRightâ and âWrongâ judgement.
Seeing a fact is freedom from resentment because then you get to see that it could not be any other way and so that energy of resentment is cut from the very start. The problem seems that most people want to get rid of the emotion immediately, which means they never invest in the process of discovering what exactly is going on, which means the facts are never discovered. What they might end up calling âseeing a factâ will be more in line with the âtried and trueâ approach of acceptance, something like âlife is a bitch and then you die so you might as well make the most of itâ.
Me and @Sonyaxx have been watching this dating show (married at first sight) and I notice that this is the main mistake in resolving marital disputes. That neither party are interested in a probing questioning of the causes to their conflict and separation. Of course this is not even allowed as some holy cows would need to be exposed in the process. But rather they rush towards receiving their good feelings and so they grasp for any means of (temporarily) coming together. So then both the underlying cause and the resentment continue, building until the next argument.
Once the facts are seen there is a clean quality, as in âIâ donât have to do any mental/emotional gymnastics, there is no longer resentment and there is no longer any gratitude needed in order to mask the resentment, then I can say that âI have seen the facts and I have stopped objecting to those factsâ. It is so worth it and I notice that this is all it takes, a willingness to expose the fiction and to discover the facts.
The wonderful thing is that facts inevitably lead one to perfection. As in one finds out that the universe is already perfect as it is.
4 Likes
Yes V, let it rip indeed. In the past I have always shut it down. This time I will see the facts and nip any objections in the bud.
1 Like
Good point Kub, once the facts are seen it is impossible to maintain the resentment. Thank you for driving home this point to me about seeing the facts. You have been instrumental in helping me with that. Actually, I havenât seen before that discovering the facts releases the resentment.
Good quote from Richard also: " Freedom lies in seeing the obvious, and in seeing the obvious there is no choice, no deliberation, no agonising over the âRightâ and âWrongâ judgement."
I like this last sentence also: " The wonderful thing is that facts inevitably lead one to perfection. As in one finds out that the universe is already perfect as it is."
3 Likes
@Vineeto The resentment I had toward you early on was related to my father. I resented him because he was authoritative and I resented you because I perceived you as being authoritative like he was. I donât have any resentment toward you now.
I donât have any resentment about being born now. I might have had that when I was younger.
2 Likes
James: The resentment I had toward you early on was related to my father. I resented him because he was authoritative and I resented you because I perceived you as being authoritative like he was. I donât have any resentment toward you now.
I donât have any resentment about being born now. I might have had that when I was younger.
Hi James,
This is excellent to hear.
James; Wow Vineeto, I am listening to you like never before and something is happening. Iâm not sure what yet but right now my pain is gone and I havenât taken my pain meds yet. I feel like I have opened up to a new reality. I am finally really getting what you are saying.
With this new way of reading and listening you might be interesting to re-read Richardâs potent message to Rick from a few years ago which I think fits your present situation quite well -
RICK: I am tempted to tamper with this ârapid (and sudden) way to actual freedomâ despite your warning.
RICHARD: With the absolute certainty/ total absence of choice of the PCE the invocation of destiny (oblivion/ extinction) is the deadly simple and fascinated contemplation of the fact that, as physical death is the end of âbeingâ anyway, it might as well happen sooner rather than later. (The oblivion/ extinction of âbeingâ at physical death is entirely without benefit in regards peace-on-earth whereas the oblivion/ extinction of âbeingâ at this moment in time is entirely beneficial to the host body and of a facilitatory benefit to all other bodies).
The fascinated contemplation â âfascinatedâ as in a moth to a flame â morphs into a pure contemplation (as in an apperceptivity) upon it becoming startlingly apparent as an experiential actuality that this moment in time has no duration.
What this means, to an identity for whom time moves (as in past/ present/ future), is that the keep-it-safe extinction of âbeingâ (cunningly projected into some future moment) will be happening now when it does take place. (Time has no duration in actuality; now, being eternal, is already always dynamic in that everything happens now; nothing ever happens in past/ present/ future time).
As now is the way, then now is the means; as now is the means, then now is the end ⌠!Bingo! ⌠it is no longer possible to distinguish between life being lived and life doing the living as any such cause and effect has vanished without a trace (it never was anyway as time, as in past/ present/ future, has no existence in actuality).
This is âmyâ moment of glory; this is âmyâ crowning achievement; this makes âmyâ petty life all worthwhile; this is âmyâ most noble sacrifice [1] for âIâ am what âIâ hold most dear; this is âmyâ legacy for all humankind; âmyâ reward is to go blessedly into the oblivion âIâ have secretly craved all along.
âMyâ extinction made all this possible.
Regards, Richard.
P.S.: The key-word is: inevitability. (List D, Rick, 3 December 2009).[1] âVoluntary âselfâ-sacrifice means an altruistic offering, a philanthropic contribution, a generous gift, a charitable donation, a magnanimous present; to devote and give over oneâs being as a humane gratuity, an open-handed endowment, a munificent bequest, a kind-hearted benefaction.
A sacrifice is the relinquishment of something valued or desired for the sake of something more important or worthy ⌠it is the deliberate abandonment, relinquishment, forfeiture or loss for the sake of something illustrious, brilliant, extraordinary and excellent.
It means to forgo, quit, vacate, discontinue, stop, cease or immolate so that oneâs guerdon is to be able to be unrepressed, unconstrained, unselfconscious, uninhibited, unrestrained, unrestricted, uncontrolled, uncurbed, unchecked, unbridled, candid, outspoken, spontaneous, relaxed, informal, open, free and easy.
As I have remarked before, âIâ go out in a blaze of gloryâ. (List B, No. 33c, 26 June 2000).
Cheers Vineeto
2 Likes
@Vineeto Do I need to be attuned to pure intent for it (immolation) to happen?
Hi James,
Definitely. You will need a reliable connection via the golden clew connected to your Pure Consciousness Experience and as such to pure intent in order not to end up in some strange Altered State of any description. For example: Hypomania/ Actuality-Mimicking ASC (see Abditorium, Hypomania)
Richard: It is more than a trifle odd for someone who self-describes, publicly, on the same day as this recording (i.e., 22 Jan 2016 in Message â 21740) as being âout from controlâ as per actualism lingo â as well as writing of having an âextensive experienceâ of pure consciousness experiences (PCEâs), of having an âextensive knowledgeâ of the actual freedom writings, of having âspoken extensivelyâ with Richard, and of being thus âwell preparedâ for the âIntimate Ambience Experimentâ which these recordings are a product of â to not have a current-time awareness of how they are experiencing this moment of being alive, each moment again, when the primary descriptors of being out-from-control is that it is of the nature of either an ongoing, and thus constantly dynamic, excellence experience (EE) or a similarly dynamic intimacy experience (IE).
In other words, someone genuinely out-from-control is constantly (i.e., consistently) âfeeling excellentâ, come-what-may, by the very nature of what that term refers to.
Secondly, needing to pause so as to consider the above âhow are you feelingâ question reveals a current-time lack of awareness as to how the protagonist being thus queried is experiencing this moment of being alive, each moment again, regardless of whatever that experiencing might actually be.
Thirdly, for the protagonist to say they are âprobablyâ feeling whatever that experiencing might be indicates a distinct lack of âhands-onâ application of asking oneself âhow am I experiencing this moment of being aliveâ (i.e., such as to have it become âsecond-natureâ to be wordlessly aware, each moment again, just whereabouts on the entire affective scale oneâs moment-to-moment experiencing is currently taking place).
Furthermore, as feeling better than âfeeling excellentâ implies âfeeling perfectâ, it is pertinent to note how a scant four minutes later (at the 07:55 minute mark below) the protagonist voluntarily provides a report of âfeeling better nowâ â i.e., feeling better than [quote] âprobably excellent, yeahâ [endquote], that is â yet a mere seven minutes thereafter (at the 14:53 minute mark further below) there is the unsolicited report of âfeeling really good againâ (which indicates a more accurate response to the above âhow are you feelingâ question would be one of a ânot feeling really goodâ nature).
Now, as the primary descriptors of being out-from-control is of it being in the nature of either a constantly/ consistently dynamic EE or IE then to be ânot feeling really goodâ of course implies ânot being out-from-controlâ at all.
Moreover, as ânot being out-from-controlâ also implies ânot having a near-actual caringâ either the real question is: just what state of being is it, then, which the protagonist is currently experiencing?
A possible clue is to be found in a post from twelve days ago (12 Jan 2016; Message â 21544).
Viz.:⢠[Alan]: â⌠given my history, I would definitely qualify as bipolar were I to place myself in the hands of the âsaneâ psychiatrists (âŚ)â. [endquote].
Now, whilst most certainly not being in the business of making amateurish psychiatric diagnoses â and especially not via email and chat message information â I do have more than a passing familiarity with both the hypomanic and manic phases characteristic of what is nowadays classified under some form of Bipolar Affective Disorder (BAD) through having lived with a woman of a hyperthymic temperament (hyperthymia as distinct from euthymia), for over a decade, plus interacting with more than a few persons officially diagnosed bipolar (a.k.a. âmanic-depressiveâ) and, thus, under specialist treatment.
Thus I do know it is possible to slip into a hypomanic state whilst illuding oneself that it fits the criterion for âout-from-controlâ as per actualism lingo â and I especially know this via gradually talking a person so afflicted back out of it over time â and one of the hallmarks is the initial difficulty in âreachingâ such a person (they are âout of reachâ of normal discourse) due to the certitude such a state imbues.
And therein lies the clue: the certitude of hypomania is no match for the certainty of the out-from-control way of being due to the latter being fuelled by pure intent (i.e., by actuality) â the former being a relatively mild delusory state born of the illusion of âbeingâ of course â and it was usually via appealing to the self-evident purity and perfection of the PCE that I could begin the process of successfully talking a person so afflicted back out it.
(In my experience a person in the manic phase of bipolar is unreachable, period, and it is only through that most-unfortunate state wearing-off, of its own accord (with or without medication), that normal discourse may recommence).
Incidentally, as there are warnings aplenty on The Actual Freedom Trust web site â about the likely danger of veering off into altered states (either of the spiritual or psychiatric variety) when one ventures beyond the norm ill-prepared â I have retired from talking any such person back out of those cul-de-sacs. (List D, Claudiu4, 24 January 2016, hypomanic).
Cheers Vineeto
1 Like
@Vineeto Definitely. You will need a reliable connection via the golden clew connected to your Pure Consciousness Experience and as such to pure intent in order not to end up in some strange Altered State of any description.
James: Understood, I do have a memory of a pce with pure intent and of a golden clew connecting me to it. I will contemplate on reconnecting to pure intent via this golden clew.
1 Like
Hi James,
Now wouldnât it be more advantageous to make a connection with pure intent and have this connection be permanent?
It is such a sweet, tender and continuously uplifting experience to experience pure intent on a permanent basis, and it will guide you securely to the next step you need to take.
Cheers Vineeto
3 Likes