Felix's Diary

[Felix]

Hey Vineeto,

I don’t think I’m dissociated - not in the proper sense. (I realise given you think I am I might need to write a whole post on it).

I’m actually making progress…things are changing. And not in some whacky, surreal Buddhist way haha.

I’m starting to see the dead ends I’ve been going down for what they are. And that’s what the post the other night was about - picking myself up on some dissociative stuff.

But it’s not the crux of my issues anymore, I don’t think. I do think I’m figuring out my issues successfully, insofar as I’m feeling good more often. Like right now

I’ve actually started to feel my feelings so fully.

I think the “dissociation” occurs where I push aside my feelings and try to achieve without going through them. The post the other night was an example of that but I was picking myself up on it.

But indeed it’s because there is trauma there. I am feeling it so fully - the despair, self hating, low self esteem, panic, ambition, existential angst etc. I am not dissociated from these feelings anymore. I’ve used a few tools like psyllocibin and EMDR therapy to help ensure this.

At root, I’ve just not been able to feel good. The human condition, within the structure of my own personal issues and personality, has been eating me alive

That is changing though. And it’s not technical at all. It’s about realising that I can feel good. And the sincerity of the need to.

That sounds so obvious, the same thing everyone here has seen and read a thousand times. But I’m starting to have a visceral understanding of it. It’s hard to convey over text. There is sincerity there and things are changing. Im starting to realise I can feel good - that I must feel good. Not the must of intense feeling, the must of benevolence.

I clarify all this not to be argumentative but because I think it’s beneficial that what I’m doing is documented accurately. I understand, though, that it would be exceptionally difficult for you to determine just from reading, exactly what’s happening for different people. .

I know your only goal is to help people through the psychic maze. And it’s really appreciated. Yet I recognise one is “alone in this endeavour”, so I have to trust I’m on the right track, because I think I am.

The weird thing is that this is all happening right now. Even as I write this very post. As I sit here…there is such a visceral feeling good emerging. It’s untechnical. It’s so …nascent. A shift is happening.

I know this will sound ridiculous…but it’s like some sort of MDMA suppository. As in, strong feelings of wellbeing, coming seemingly from nowhere.

And there is wonder, including wonder that this shift is happening.

[Vineeto]

Felix: I’ve actually started to feel my feelings so fully.

I think the “dissociation” occurs where I push aside my feelings and try to achieve without going through them. The post the other night was an example of that but I was picking myself up on it. (…)
That sounds so obvious, the same thing everyone here has seen and read a thousand times. But I’m starting to have a visceral understanding of it. It’s hard to convey over text. There is sincerity there and things are changing. I’m starting to realise I can feel good – that I must feel good. Not the must of intense feeling, the must of benevolence.
I clarify all this not to be argumentative but because I think it’s beneficial that what I’m doing is documented accurately. I understand, though, that it would be exceptionally difficult for you to determine just from reading, exactly what’s happening for different people.
I know your only goal is to help people through the psychic maze. And it’s really appreciated. Yet I recognise one is “alone in this endeavour”, so I have to trust I’m on the right track, because I think I am.
The weird thing is that this is all happening right now. Even as I write this very post. As I sit here… there is such a visceral feeling good emerging. It’s untechnical. It’s so … nascent. A shift is happening.
I know this will sound ridiculous… but it’s like some sort of MDMA suppository. As in, strong feelings of wellbeing, coming seemingly from nowhere.
And there is wonder, including wonder that this shift is happening. (link)

Hi Felix,

This sounds really wonderful and I am very pleased to read such good news.

Cheers Vineeto

[Felix]

Yesterday I had another day of “trying”. It’s when my application of the actualism method feels difficult, like there is no “space” for it internally - regardless of how attuned I am to it being this moment.

Today is completely different. First, I slept well - I can feel that my nervous system is becoming a lot better regulated. I think this is very important…I understand it was me as feeling being doing it, but the effects of a deregulated nervous system create a feedback loop where it’s very hard to feel good/safe. It’s easier to feel better when you are physically well versus exhausted, sick and burnt out.

So from this morning after a pleasant sleep I have simply been allowing what I feel to be apparent, with a focus on enjoying and appreciating this moment. Isn’t that what I’ve always been doing (or trying to do)? Why is it working so well now?

There is a great allowing…this anxious, self-hating saboteur identity is a good deal out of the way (not totally). The result is space/ease in my spatial/visual field - like everything is dancing around…the interplay of light, the freshness of the breeze, the warmth of the sun. Holiday mode.

I can feel moments where I start to “seize up” a little bit - I allow myself to feel whatever it is but I also nip it in the bud, neither expressing nor repressing. What comes up is always a form of wanting to fight it being this moment.

The most persistent issue is egoic plans for how I need to self improve, for example. It comes in a lot of forms but physical appearance is a big one. Another is a kind of retroactive shame for having “messed up” so bad with the actualism method and other stuff.

I’m investigating all that.

Behind it all there is an intent to feel good/excellent/perfect, and a curiosity for what is
preventing that. It’s a sincere intent - and one that helps at least see the blockers…at times I can let go of whatever it is, at other times I’m seeing where I’m still holding to precious beliefs.

[Felix]

I got back to feeling good - somewhere in my investigation I lost it.

This pattern of ruminating within the feeling (but thinking I’m doing something)…rather than getting back to feeling good…I need to keep an eye out for that one

[Felix]

Still applying getting back to feeling good - at the moment it’s basically all I’m doing. Either I feel good, or I don’t.

I realise I have been tempted again and again and again into anxiety, despair, self castigation - none of which is what the actualism method is about.

A bit of therapy and looking at my childhood etc has actually helped. Nothing excessive but just to realise that I’ve spent most of my life feeling extremely self-conscious - as if always looking at myself from an external point of view (the view of others - how they see me, what I need to be/achieve in order to be acceptable to others).

These days my life is coming back into bloom so to speak. I am no longer living that intense, lone wolf lifestyle which is clearly not conducive to feeling good.

I think something can happen as an actualist where, because feeling good seems like the hard part, you focus on dismantling social identity. This can turn into a lot…avoidance, turning away from others, isolation etc which starts to look and feel more like depression (with a lot of negative-self rumination)

Clear signs of feeling good for me include things like feeling good in my body (not like I’m taking up space), being confident and at ease, finding it easy to relate to others and care for them, a sense of fun and being on holiday.

The more I feel that the easier it is to make a habit of it.

It’s taken a long time to learn that but I’m getting it! That life was meant to be fun

[Felix]

Posting a lot lately but things are changing so I want to document.

As the day went on I have been feeling so unbelievably equanimous. As in, feeling well in a very steady way - not prone to any dips.

There is such a safety in it. I’m riding the fact that it’s this moment - and there is no threat happening at all (this is in sharp occurrence to how it’s been previously where it’s as if I was incredibly susceptible to all kinds of anxiety and emotional spirals).

I think Peter once wrote about a stage where is sensuosity was like that. Not necessarily anything big happening like a PCE, but without any issues.

I can see it becoming a doorway. At times it goes a bit beyond a normal way of being…and I can see a “footpath” there…

I’m amazed at the change.

Last night’s events were very important, I think. I had a big insecurity moment - one of my spirals; and ended up talking to my housemate who is a psychologist. He basically reassured me, pointed out that this is likely linked to trauma, but that nothing was wrong.

He helped me get back to feeling good basically. From there, it’s like I could see it was just a kind of psychological trap - a habit, borne from childhood neglect (and capitalised on by the fretful, quasi-suicidal nature of “me”).

Once I got back to feeling good, it’s like I said to myself that I would never go back there ever again.

[Vineeto]

Felix: Still applying getting back to feeling good – at the moment it’s basically all I’m doing. Either I feel good, or I don’t.

Hi Felix,

Just to be sure – trying to get back to feeling good is different to actually getting back to feeling good –

Richard: It is really very, very simple (which is possibly why it has never been discovered before this): you felt good previously; you are not feeling good now; something happened to you to end that felicitous/ innocuous feeling; you find out what happened; you see how silly that is (no matter what it was); you are once more feeling good. (Richard, List D, No. 11, 19 Nov 2009)

Felix: I realise I have been tempted again and again and again into anxiety, despair, self castigation – none of which is what the actualism method is about.

Of course when some feeling is sticky, such that it reoccurs again and again, the trigger need to be recognized and after getting back to feeling good to take a closer look and explore it as much as you dare, chip away at it, so to speak to eventually take it out at the root.

For instance you say further below that “I’ve spent most of my life feeling extremely self-conscious”, meaning you give others a lot of power how you should be, appear, behave which ultimately makes you feel bad about yourself.

As I said to another recently –

Vineeto: It’s a general rule of thumb ‘Vineeto’ found in ‘her’ investigations – if ‘she’ couldn’t shake off a bad feeling it was usually that ‘she’ wanted to keep/ defend its opposite good feeling. (link)

It’s really the ‘good’ feelings, those one cherishes and keeps close to one’s heart, which are the hardest to dislodge. But they are also the ones which keep the ‘bad’ feelings in place. Take “anxiety” and “self castigation”, they both have their origin in you wanting to please others and not disappoint your friends/family.

‘Vineeto’, in a conversation with Richard, learnt it can be loyalty and it gave her a great boost to dig into that deeper –

Respondent: Meanwhile, I also wondered if you had discussed about peasant mentality with Peter and Vineeto, during their feeling being days, because there is no mention of this peasant mentality even in their journals…
Richard: Yes, it was discussed – mostly touched upon from time-to-time, as appropriate to a particular situation and/or set of circumstances, rather than emphasised as a core issue in regards to actualism/ actual freedom – and the main aspect which feeling-being ‘Vineeto’ (for example) came to grips with in the early days was loyalty.
A clue as to how soon that topic came up is contained in a snippet of a discussion about loyalty itself which happened to be tape-recorded, in 1997, and transcribed in ‘The Compassion Gained Through Forgiveness Binds’. A short way down the page the following exchange takes place. Viz.: (Footnote). In that text I am reminding ‘her’ how there had been a conversation about loyalty on the second or third occasion ‘she’ had visited – and I can recall, even now, how on that initial occasion it had touched a responsive chord in ‘her’ as something vital to examine – as ‘she’ had shifted ‘her’ familially-inculcated and societally-instilled allegiance to ‘the system’ at large over onto the spiritual commune which ‘she’ had been a live-in member for the better part of nigh-on seventeen years. (Richard, List D, No. 32a, 19 Jun 2015).

Footnote Q2= ‘Vineeto’:
R: I remember you and I having a conversation about loyalty the second or third time you came here. You were realising that you had loyalty to hold you back
Q2: Yes, it took a while for me to work through. It is a feeling of belonging, and when I dismantled what loyalty is made up of then it loses its virtue.
R: It is connected with belonging? To a particular group? So all these group therapies that people do, they would not question that loyalty, would they? Because they belong to that very group that is running the therapies. The whole thing of the commune.
Q(2): It’s a new loyalty – away from the family and toward the [Rajneesh] commune.
R: Whereas I am only interested in being rid of loyalty altogether – however strange that may initially seem. [Emphasis added]. (link)

Felix: A bit of therapy and looking at my childhood etc has actually helped. Nothing excessive but just to realise that I’ve spent most of my life feeling extremely self-conscious – as if always looking at myself from an external point of view (the view of others – how they see me, what I need to be/ achieve in order to be acceptable to others).
These days my life is coming back into bloom so to speak. I am no longer living that intense, lone wolf lifestyle which is clearly not conducive to feeling good.
I think something can happen as an actualist where, because feeling good seems like the hard part, you focus on dismantling social identity. This can turn into a lot… avoidance, turning away from others, isolation etc which starts to look and feel more like depression (with a lot of negative-self rumination).
Clear signs of feeling good for me include things like feeling good in my body (not like I’m taking up space), being confident and at ease, finding it easy to relate to others and care for them, a sense of fun and being on holiday.
The more I feel that the easier it is to make a habit of it.
It’s taken a long time to learn that but I’m getting it! That life was meant to be fun. (link)

I’m pleased to see that you are having more and more fun. Also, “it’s taken a long time to learn” because there is a life-time (your life-time up to now) to unlearn, whilst the old being is constantly re-introduced/ reinforced by society and ‘humanity’ around you. You can pat yourself on the back.

Cheers Vineeto

[Felix]

Some important changes are happening.

First of all, the child-like thing I was writing about yesterday - is gone (not in a bad way). I say that just so that it doesn’t look like the thing that the part I’m about to explain depends on.

I woke up this morning, and in that state between sleeping and waking something happened. Almost like I saw myself about to wake into that usual way that I always have - and in anticipating that I “saw” that what was about to happen is that I was about to be anxious.

In other words, that the normal me that I was just about to be is an anxious person. That 90% of my emotional state can be attributed to anxiety.

And importantly, I intuitively felt that I didn’t need to feel anxious anymore - that I didn’t have to do it anymore. The “half asleep” state seemed to help with this because I felt relaxed/cozy, and this state seemed to almost blanket itself over my whole self image / persona. (Almost like how once you feel good you trace back to what the issue was, and that feeling good imposes itself over the memory of what happened).

This lead to me getting and simply sitting, looking at my feelings, but no longer blocked by anxiety. What a difference this has been. To find the anhedonic Felix, and make contact with sensuosity without the interference of hidden and cunning anxiety.

Looking back it’s the most obvious thing in the world - this fact of having blocked myself up
with anxiety. I think this may have been the identity’s reaction to the PCE experiences of a couple of years ago.

Anxiety says look away, distract - it is so completely debilitating to intelligence.

Now I am feeling so much lighter, there is anhedonic pleasure and the distance between me and the actual world seems to have completely shrunk. Suddenly doing the “actualist” thing of lying down or sitting and doing nothing is totally totally enjoyable. I just want it more and more.

Something is really working I feel.

[claudiu]

Hi Felix,

@Felix

I woke up this morning, and in that state between sleeping and waking something happened. Almost like I saw myself about to wake into that usual way that I always have - and in anticipating that I “saw” that what was about to happen is that I was about to be anxious.

In other words, that the normal me that I was just about to be is an anxious person. That 90% of my emotional state can be attributed to anxiety.

And importantly, I intuitively felt that I didn’t need to feel anxious anymore - that I didn’t have to do it anymore.

This is a really valuable experiential insight. Indeed, being able to be conscious before the anxious normal way-of-being began, while still being a feeling-being (ie not in a PCE), lets you see that indeed you can be like that, you can experience life without that anxiety, it’s not fundamental to you being you (ie you can change it). I had the same experiences when I was in a particularly unhappy time in my life, so I know what you’re referring to (in technical terms it’s a hypnopompic state).

However it looked like it started to go awry soon after:

@Felix

This lead to me getting and simply sitting, looking at my feelings, but no longer blocked by anxiety.

Ehmm the problem is that now you have made the ‘anxiety’ into something ‘other’ than ‘you’, ie something ‘out there’ that happens ‘to’ you. The key is that you are that anxiety, it’s how you normally are. When you were waking up, you can put it like you hadn’t yet ‘remembered’ to start being that anxiety yet (or something like this), but when the anxious you inevitably began (which I presume happened a few seconds after you realized you weren’t being anxious yet, as it happened to me in the past), it was you starting to be like you normally are, it wasn’t like some external ‘anxiety’ force came in.

Anxiety is one of the feelings that you are of course, so that you see ‘anxiety’ as something other than ‘my feelings’ which somehow blocks ‘me’ from seeing ‘my feelings’, means you are still holding yourself at arms length and dissociating from the anxiety that you are.

It is perfectly normal to be anxious, even 90% of the time, a lot of people live life this way. I’ll just put it simply, you won’t be able to change yourself to be less anxious unless you recognize you are the anxiety. Once you accept it it will be remarkably freeing.

@Felix

To find the anhedonic Felix, and make contact with sensuosity without the interference of hidden and cunning anxiety. […] Now I am feeling so much lighter, there is anhedonic pleasure and the distance between me and the actual world seems to have completely shrunk.

Noooo it’s not anhedonic pleasure! (The “Nooooo” is to be read like someone trying to stop someone else from falling off of a balcony )

The only time you experience anhedonic pleasure is in a PCE. All the other time, it is hedonic. Don’t worry I have a lot of experience trying to put myself into actuality, it never works

@Felix

Suddenly doing the “actualist” thing of lying down or sitting and doing nothing is totally totally enjoyable. I just want it more and more.

Ehhh it’s like Vineeto said, this isn’t an “actualist” thing. It’s dissociating, first from youself being anxiety, and then from yourself entirely and imagining you’re experiencing actuality (ie anhedonic pleasure):

@Vineeto

Point 3: Stop calling this dissociation from feelings, “mindfulness”, doing “PCE-walk”, and an apparent “attempting to penetrate the stygian nature of the psyche” whilst still dissociating ‘actualism’ – it is not.

I am putting it so bluntly to save you more times of distress and going round in circles by using methodology which has nothing to do with the actualism method which is the key to get you out of your mess.

It’s ok tho these habits take a long time to unwind, ie no need to beat yourself up about it.

Cheers,
Claudiu

[Felix]

Hey Claudiu,

Thanks for your reply.

You seem to be working very hard to make my post something that it wasn’t haha. All I’m interested in atm is my affective experience and whether the method is working.

As regards what I apparently need to do to make it work - you are correcting what is already working. Regardless of any definitions/descriptions which you believe don’t align with the “correct” way….

This recent talk of dissociation does not really apply.

Cheers

Felix

[claudiu]

Ok if I read it again, I can read it in a way where you are saying you’ve managed to not feel anxious anymore and are now affectively enjoying being alive much more due to not feeling anxious. I’m not affirming it, I wouldn’t know, as I can only go by what you write.

What do you mean by ”anhedonic Felix” and ”anhedonic pleasure” though? This is what tripped the red flags

“anhedonic” just means “not hedonic”, ie having no hedonic tone. But every experience as a feeling-being has a hedonic tone, not only feelings and moods and emotions but sensate experiencing as well. In other words, being enjoying of the senses (which is what sensuosity is) is a hedonic experience too as a feeling-being.

When in a PCE the sensate enjoyment and experiencing is anhedonic, but only in a PCE.

This is just how the words are defined, it’s not a matter of ‘correct’ or not, it’s just what they are meant to mean

So when you wrote you are experiencing anhedonic pleasure but while not in a PCE it sounded like you think you’re experiencing something actual rather than straightforwardly affectively enjoying what is happening — hence the red flag tripwire

Given all the above maybe you can clarify what you meant by it?

Cheers
Claudiu

[Felix]

I am discovering something big about control.

Its all happened today. As my investigations and experimentations have continued, I’ve been asking myself - ok this seems to be kinda working, but why isn’t it working MORE?

And why is my way of doing it causing this other stuff…exhaustion, self-consciousness, anxiety.

I did look at the possibility of dissociation but that didn’t seem intuitively right. I am very much in the habit of awareness of being aware of my feelings in an integrated way. It’s moving the feelings that has been the hard part, as if totally anchored down. Heavy.

This control question unlocked something. It’s like I instantly lost 200kg, and I’ve had glimpses of actuality. It has all happened in the EASIEST way - the actual world is riiiiiight there. Just this simple shift in perspective was enough to show it.

I think it would be more accurate to say that I’ve been repressed, moreso than dissociated.

I didn’t realise the degree to which I’ve been blocked by fear. Obviously my recent posts have been creeping up on the realisation.

I think the biggest fear is of being locked out. I actually remember after a biiig PCE a couple of years ago, the next morning it’s like I exploded with anxiety - in doing so I clamped the passageway to actuality shut.

So then it became all about effort - I WILL MAKE THIS HAPPEN NO MATTER WHATTTTTTTT () ->>>>>>> because otherwise, life is a failure, nothing has meaning. Almost like Richard burnt the bridge to real world meaning and “success”. I have been so utterly convinced by the third alternative that my entire life has become dedicated to this one goal (regardless of my success level).

Letting loose the controls has already started somewhat giving glimpses of what lays beyond (I am not talking about out from control, necessarily - at this point I’m not caring about the theoretical). I am totally amazed at the results. I’m talking in terms of actual experience, nothing theoretical. The actual world is right there and I have no doubt that I can become free LIKE THAT.

It’s like I had no trust in this universe - and thus no naïveté could “blossom”. I didn’t know what it meant to “give up being me” but it seems like I’m making my way towards experiential realisation of that very very delicious possibility.

[Felix]

Hey Claudiu,

I probably used the word incorrectly then. I have my own specific meaning that I’ve perhaps appropriated

Point taken - I won’t bother to define it and confuse anyone further!

Cheers, Kristian

[claudiu]

Ah okay, maybe you meant “not hedonistic”?

“Hedonistic” in a colloquial usage now means… well the Claude AI put it well:

Today, these terms often carry negative connotations, suggesting:

• Excessive indulgence in sensual pleasures

• Short-sighted pursuit of immediate gratification

• Selfishness or disregard for consequences

• Lifestyle focused on partying, luxury, or physical pleasures

When someone is called “hedonistic” now, it typically implies they’re irresponsible, shallow, or addicted to pleasure-seeking.

It’s funny cause that’s not at all what the original Greeks who were pursuing hedonism meant by it, but anyway the point is how we’re using the words.

So then we could coin a word “anhedonistic” to mean “not hedonistic” in the above sense.

In that case it makes a lot of sense and certainly more sincere and naive ways of affectively enjoying being alive, would not be hedonistic. So you could be saying you’re discovering how to enjoy being alive more sincerely / naively in actualist lingo, and experiencing pleasure not in this hedonistic way but in a more salubrious way.

Could indeed be great if so, I leave it for you to find out I understand if you don’t wanna detail out the vocabulary at this point but it is something I enjoy and maybe helpful to others

Cheers
Claudiu

[Felix]

Hey! That’s all good!

Happy to go with anhedonistic

I think what I was trying to describe was something (that I had thought of as a scale) towards thinning out of self - sensuous enjoyment that’s not interfered with by feelings. In other words, the degree to which I was blocking sensuosity had lessened significantly.

By contrast - right now for example - I’m feeling quite happy, skip in my step etc. I’m enjoying sensuously (listen to music and feeling cozy as I work) but my happy mood is somewhat “loud” and therefore blocking, to a degree, the type of experience I was trying to describe yesterday.

That being said, I have no complaints about feeling happy and I do not tend to investigate at all (for now) even if there is some “joy” etc mixed in there.

It’s really exciting to experience that I am actually changing, that I am a lot more happy more often etc. I consider that more the “virtual freedom” sort of happiness (as in, “one might as well be in a good mood” and, if need be, putting things on an it doesn’t really matter basis).

In terms of my posts and writings - because things are in flux (albeit in a positive direction ) my diary will naturally reflect this to a degree. As such, I appreciate I may be hard to wrangle at the moment in terms of dictionary definitions or clear impressions of where I’m at haha.

I also try to write from my own experience as much as possible, without using existing writings too much as a trellis that might skew the direction of what I’m writing.

I think at this stage it doesn’t matter anyway as all I’m basically doing is feeling good more often - as such I’ll still be a muddled cocktail (just a better tasting one ) of a feeling being outside of those glimpses of clean actuality.

To reiterate, nothing I’m writing is meant to be instructive - even if I hope now or later it might be useful in some way.

Cheers and thanks for your interest,
Kristian

[Vineeto]

Claudiu to Felix: Ah okay, maybe you meant “not hedonistic”?
“Hedonistic” in a colloquial usage now means… well the Claude AI put it well:
Today, these terms often carry negative connotations, suggesting:

• Excessive indulgence in sensual pleasures
• Short-sighted pursuit of immediate gratification
• Selfishness or disregard for consequences
• Lifestyle focused on partying, luxury, or physical pleasures

When someone is called “hedonistic” now, it typically implies they’re irresponsible, shallow, or addicted to pleasure-seeking.
It’s funny cause that’s not at all what the original Greeks who were pursuing hedonism meant by it, but anyway the point is how we’re using the words.
So then we could coin a word “anhedonistic” to mean “not hedonistic” in the above sense.
In that case it makes a lot of sense and certainly more sincere and naive ways of affectively enjoying being alive, would not be hedonistic. So you could be saying you’re discovering how to enjoy being alive more sincerely / naively in actualist lingo, and experiencing pleasure not in this hedonistic way but in a more salubrious way.
Could indeed be great if so, I leave it for you to find out I understand if you don’t wanna detail out the vocabulary at this point but it is something I enjoy and maybe helpful to others. (link)

Hi Claudiu,

Just a quick comment.

I appreciate your attention on precise wording. One’s choice of words describing one’s experiences, linguistic or mental, generally shapes one’s thinking and feeling.

As such, just as the word “hedonistic”, according to your AI, signifies an excess of hedonic feelings and behaviour, in a similar way the (presently non-existing) word “anhedonistic” would indicate an excessive way of being anhedonic.

This is confusing for those who know the word “anhedonic” as an characteristic of experiencing a PCE or an actual freedom, and for those of the psychiatric genre “anhedonia” is classified as a mental disorder.

There is a perfectly good word for feeling good, calm, contented, delighted, happy in a quiet non-exuberant way for a feeling being – affective. As such one can say one is affectively feeling good, calm, contented, delighted and happy without experiencing either ‘good’ or ‘bad’ feelings. There is nothing wrong with affectively feeling good, either exuberantly or quietly as an ongoing background mood – on the contrary.

Richard: ‘The felicitous/ innocuous feelings are in no way docile, lack-lustre affections … in conjunction with sensuosity they make for an extremely forceful/ potent combination as, with all of the affective energy channelled into being as happy and harmless as is humanly possible (and no longer being frittered away on love and compassion/ malice and sorrow), the full effect of ‘me’ at the core of ‘my’ being – which is ‘being’ itself – is dynamically enabled for one purpose and one purpose alone. (…) The actualism method is not about undermining the passions … on the contrary, it is about directing all of that affective energy into being the felicitous/ innocuous feelings (that is, ‘me’ at the core of ‘my’ being, which is ‘being’ itself) in order to effect a deliberate imitation of the actual, as evidenced in a PCE [a pure consciousness experience], so as to feel as happy and as harmless (as free of malice and sorrow) as is humanly possible whilst remaining a ‘self’.
Such imitative felicity/ innocuity, in conjunction with sensuosity, readily evokes amazement, marvel, and delight – a state of wide-eyed wonder best expressed by the word naiveté (the nearest a ‘self’ can come to innocence whilst being a ‘self’) – and which allows the overarching benignity and benevolence inherent to the infinitude, which this infinite and eternal and perpetual universe actually is, to operate more and more freely. This intrinsic benignity and benevolence, which has nothing to do with the imitative affective happiness and harmlessness, will do the rest.
All that was required was ‘my’ cheerful, and thus willing, concurrence’. (Richard, AF List, No. 60f, 29 Sep 2005).

Cheers Vineeto

[claudiu]

Hi Vineeto,

@Vineeto

As such, just as the word “hedonistic”, according to your AI, signifies an excess of hedonic feelings and behaviour […]

Well not exactly – feeling good (as in “calm, contented, delighted, happy in a quiet non-exuberant way”) is also a hedonic feeling and behavior, since hedonic just means related to hedonic tone, and feeling good does have a pleasant hedonic tone (as opposed to an unpleasant one).

That being said I agree that “anhedonistic” resembles “anhedonic” too much so I agree it is not a good term . One could just say “not hedonistically” which would already be better.

@Vineeto

There is a perfectly good word for feeling good, calm, contented, delighted, happy in a quiet non-exuberant way for a feeling being – affective.

Mmmm this doesn’t make the distinction I’m wanting to draw though. Cause all emotions and feelings are affective. So if one is following hedonistic pursuits, one will be feeling those hedonistic feelings affectively too, i.e. they will be affective hedonistic feelings

However I see that there already is a way to describe hedonistic pleasure in actualist lingo… it’s nothing other than the ‘good’ feelings! i.e. the desirous ones in this particular case.

And enough has already written on distinguishing between ‘good’ feelings and feeling good… so indeed no new term is needed to be coined here

Cheers,
Claudiu

[claudiu]

Hi Felix,

@Felix

I think what I was trying to describe was something (that I had thought of as a scale) towards thinning out of self - sensuous enjoyment that’s not interfered with by feelings. In other words, the degree to which I was blocking sensuosity had lessened significantly.

By contrast - right now for example - I’m feeling quite happy, skip in my step etc. I’m enjoying sensuously (listen to music and feeling cozy as I work) but my happy mood is somewhat “loud” and therefore blocking, to a degree, the type of experience I was trying to describe yesterday.

Ahh ok so actually you were using “anhedonic” correctly then

In other words you are looking for a kind of enjoyment, that you call “sensuous”, that is not feeling-based, that is not “interfered with by feelings” – and you are seeing it as that feelings (even a “happy mood”) is “blocking sensuosity”.

Sooo I just wanna say that… sensuosity, sensuous enjoyment, when ramped up to the max, is absolutely a like HOLY SMOKES WOAHH HTHIS IS ABSOLUTELY WHAT THE WOWWWWWWWWWWW kind of … FEELING

It completely and 100% is an affective thing!!! It is a feeling!!!

And it is like woahhh!!! Amazing!!!

But not in the way like you would have while high on molly or something. Well not necessarily. I mean, it’s not a drug high. I could put it like it is like rolling but without the actual drug part of it haha. Like you could be wondrously enjoying while on drugs, but the actual nice part is the wondrous enjoyment part really, not the drugs part. And because it is not conditional on any drugs (or anything else really) you can fully go into it, unreservedly, it is (relatively) clean and clear and pure.

This sensuosity is ‘my’ feeling-based enjoyment of the senses. It is a feeling! The amazing part of it is just how absolutely much bester it can go than is normal. But it can, oh it can and it does.

If you try the “thinning out of self” approach, it is not gonna get you there. Like maybe it will kinda work or seem to work for a bit, but you will hit a wall at some point. The desired target (which is an excellence experience in the actualist lingo) is actually more ‘self’-expression, not less… but it is that you are expressing the felicitous and naive feelings, instead of ‘good’ or bad ones. But they can really go a lot!!!

Now then once you are at that point, at a certain point you might get the sense of a certain something, an intriguing thing appearing that you can make the choice to allow… and then once you do you are in a PCE . At that point only, indeed there are no feelings interfering with enjoyment. However it is way more similar to the “WOAHAHHHHH good lord!!” levels of feeling-enjoyment, than the thinned-out attempt at not feeling enjoyment.

I can see why you would wanna try the thinning-out approach, as I did too, because the PCE does not have any feelings as part of it… but the way to have a PCE is to allow it to happen, and if you try to thin yourself out, part of you is gonna sort of go into hiding and not be ‘available’ to give consent, if it makes sense…

Another way to put it is that so long as you are not in a PCE you’re gunna have to feel something. Trying to not feel anything is gonna aim you towards neutral, not towards amazing wondrous wonderland fun time. You wanna aim for the wondrous wonderland fun time

I hope my use of bold, italics and caps conveyed the magnitude of the feelings that one can feel on this wide and wondrous journey

(Brief Addendum: I would say there is also a difference of enjoying a conditional thing (like song or a piece of delicious food) vs enjoying being alive per se, and there is a possibility you’re aiming for the latter rather than the former, which makes sense as far as it goes… but even so in that case this should help you re-orient, as nevertheless the relatively unconditional enjoyment here is indeed a feeling-based enjoyment.)

Cheers,
Claudiu

[Vineeto]

Vineeto: As such, just as the word “hedonistic”, according to your AI, signifies an excess of hedonic feelings and behaviour […]

Claudiu: Well not exactly – feeling good (as in “calm, contented, delighted, happy in a quiet non-exuberant way”) is also a hedonic feeling and behavior, since hedonic just means related to hedonic tone, and feeling good does have a pleasant hedonic tone (as opposed to an unpleasant one).

Hi Claudiu,

I should have said ““hedonistic” as compared to hedonic”. Hedonic tone is the feeling tone that accompanies every feeling – such as it feels good to feel good, it feels bad to be sad, and so on.

Richard: Put succinctly: every feeling-being’s experience or state of being – including that feeling-being’s emotions, passions, moods, sentiments and, thus, affectively-tinged and/or emotionally-driven thoughts – has hedonic tone (a degree of affective pleasantness or unpleasantness/ a degree of affective pleasure or displeasure). (Richard, Abditorium, Hedonic Tone).

Claudiu: That being said I agree that “anhedonistic” resembles “anhedonic” too much so I agree it is not a good term. One could just say “not hedonistically” which would already be better.

Exactly, as you say “hedonic just means related to hedonic tone”, it is impossible for a feeling being to be not hedonic. Better to be sincere and be aware that as a feeling being affective feelings accompanied by hedonic experiencing is always happening except in a PCE and appreciable.

It speaks for itself that hedonism and hedonistic pleasurable feelings are discouraged/ castigated by implicitly implying that feeling good falls into the category of hedonism and hedonistic, while aggression, for instance combative sports, games and entertainment, is not only tolerated but encouraged and promoted.

–

Vineeto: There is a perfectly good word for feeling good, calm, contented, delighted, happy in a quiet non-exuberant way for a feeling being – affective.

Claudiu: Mmmm this doesn’t make the distinction I’m wanting to draw though. Cause all emotions and feelings are affective. So if one is following hedonistic pursuits, one will be feeling those hedonistic feelings affectively too, i.e. they will be affective hedonistic feelings.
However I see that there already is a way to describe hedonistic pleasure in actualist lingo… it’s nothing other than the ‘good’ feelings! i.e. the desirous ones in this particular case.

Indeed. As all the descriptions of behaviour your AI has suggested – “excessive indulgence in sensual pleasures, short-sighted pursuit of immediate gratification, selfishness or disregard for consequences, lifestyle focused on partying, luxury, or physical pleasures” is not being harmless or even considerate of others and it is clear that they don’t fall into the category of ‘feeling good’ or ‘being happy and harmless’. So any accusation of a malcontent killjoy is a non-sequitur (link).

Claudiu: And enough has already written on distinguishing between ‘good’ feelings and feeling good… so indeed no new term is needed to be coined here. (link)

I am pleased we agree.

Cheers Vineeto

[Ian]

@claudiu

Sooo I just wanna say that… sensuosity, sensuous enjoyment, when ramped up to the max, is absolutely a like HOLY SMOKES WOAHH HTHIS IS ABSOLUTELY WHAT THE WOWWWWWWWWWWW kind of … FEELING

Just spotted this and