Really funny thing just now. I see now that … I can literally just choose self-sacrifice! Like, self-sacrifice is an option that I can just pick.
Somehow I did not really realize this before. I thought I had to do it in some round-about way where because I am intrinsically self-centered I can’t really directly choose self-sacrifice. Which just amounts to trying to trick myself into it lol.
But it’s one of the options available to me! I can literally just pick it lol
I think I am still missing some step between the instinctual passion of aggression and:
and
Richard’s report of sitting with it seems apt with minor modifications only, so I will go on this direction, e.g. instead of ‘fear’ it would be ‘aggression’ because I do really want to know, once and for all, what this aggression is which drives human beings for millennia into the horrible things we get up to on a regular basis on a global scale
The way I see it is that fear underlies and drives the aggression. Sounds to me like you need to uncover the fear.
Yes, I concur with this too…Behind that arising of anger is a feeling of threat aka fear wanting to defend something…which taken to its conclusion is ultimately about one’s life.
A simple gross example is if somebody were to say “Shashank you are ugly af” and if I were to take an offence and get angry, why is that so ?
Lack of beauty > Not fitting in society’s standards > Feeling of being an outsider from the group> Herding instinct creating fear
The “real” world solution ? Agression arises and says “Lets kill this guy who says I’m ugly” 
So yes…behind that agression is always some fear…something to defend
Claudiu: A few updates:
I definitely notice that sitting with and delving into the depths of ‘my’ being, there’s a distinct reluctance to really get to the ‘bottom’ of it. A sort of reluctance/ avoidance phenomenon. I do really want to know what the ‘bottom’ of it is, though – experientially! I see how I can fuel this wanting-to-know with passionate desire, it’s something I really do want, and the full force of ‘my’ desire will allow it to happen.
Although I didn’t get to the ‘end’ of the above, at one point yesterday whilst sitting at my computer desk at my home hall-office, I suddenly ‘got’ it (concomitantly) that not only will I have to actually get to the very end, go all the way, of such an exploration, but also that I will actually do this. The seeing that it is needed to succeed, plus that I will go all the way, was simultaneous.
This led to an absolute blast of an exciting time. I experienced it like being really on the adventure of a lifetime. I had visions like I was going through a catacomb, heroically fighting off skeletal monsters with my sword – that was the level of excitement I felt – and far more safely because I could do it all from just sitting in my house!
Hi Claudiu,
You say you “suddenly ‘got’ it” that “I will actually do this” … and then proceed with a ‘game’ created by “visions”, “heroically fighting off skeletal monsters with my sword”. I can’t really make sense of it.
In my experience, becoming actually free is the opposite of a fight, it is full acquiescence of all of your ‘being’ to become extinct because at that point there is only one choice. When all of ‘me’ agrees that there is only one choice there is no inner division of one part of ‘me’ fighting another part.
Claudiu: This brought out a naive exuberance that was really a ton of fun. This had an effect in all my dealings and doings with others, and went well, up until in the late evening there developed an irritated/ annoyed/ frustrated atmosphere having to do with working together to move some furniture around. The naivete gave way to being annoyed and feeling like I was unfairly offended-against.
Today I still feel the aftereffects of such aggression, and now I am contemplating on how to beneficially use this passionate energy of this instinctual passion. ‘How’ to passionately use the aggressive energy towards my aim?
I would have called it resentment rather than full aggression – you were interrupted in your vision-created game of “heroically fighting off skeletal monsters with my sword” and called upon to do something so mundane as moving furniture around. But then you had some useful insights nevertheless.
Claudiu: A lot of it just seems to do with sitting with and seeing it for what it is. For a brief spell I was worried that the fact of me feeling aggression would somehow disqualify me from succeeding. Like, what do I do about this? But then I saw with clear seeing what had happened: the instinctual passion of aggression happens first, then on top of this the passion swirls into a ‘me’ that is a ‘who’ which is who ‘I’ am, who is aggressive and at times nurture this aggression to ‘my’ bosom. But this ‘who’ is not set in stone. Actually what it ‘really’ is is ‘just’ an underlying feeling of aggression. This clear seeing is remarkably refreshing and removes any moral weight from it (as in I am a ‘bad’ person for feeling this way). And then I see it’s actually just a choice whether to continue being aggressive or not. And now I see that feeling this way or that does not disqualify me in any way, nor actually change what I want, which is to succeed for the benefit of this body & every body. And it being for the benefit of others as well is really a crucial component, it ‘locks in’ the significance of what I do and automatically orients me in a more sensible direction.
Excellent. Can you see that what you want is to liberate both others and yourself from this very real and destructive feeling of aggression, not to mention the bad mood it comes with? The passionate energy which can be harnessed could be an increased determination not to chicken out (at least that is what ‘Vineeto’ took away from it).
‘Vineeto’: Besides physical attack, aggression has many more subtle nuances: blaming, resentment, verbal abuse, nagging, boredom, being the victim, arrogance, clever-clever, competition, self-destruction and revenge. I made use of this instinct for becoming free as a bloody-mindedness, persistence, not to ‘let the buggers get me down’ and refusal to run with the crowd. (Actualism, Vineeto, AF List, Alan-b, 30.3.1999)
So I think I answered my own question while typing it out lol, and now a familiar joy, lightness of being, and exuberance is rising yet again (link)
So you did!
Claudiu: Really funny thing just now. I see now that … I can literally just choose self-sacrifice! Like, self-sacrifice is an option that I can just pick.
Somehow I did not really realize this before. I thought I had to do it in some round-about way where because I am intrinsically self-centered I can’t really directly choose self-sacrifice. Which just amounts to trying to trick myself into it lol.
But it’s one of the options available to me! I can literally just pick it lol (link)
I do wonder – was this an apperceptive seeing or a mere thought – as in “to be or not to be that is the question”? If self-sacrifice is a genuine option, my question is what is stopping you now?
Claudiu: I think I am still missing some step between the instinctual passion of aggression and:
Vineeto: You see, in whatever form the instinctual passion is happening, be they desire, nurture (compassion/passionate caring) or fear, you need to fully feel and embrace your ‘being’ and fully experienced it as what ‘you’ are in order to be harnessed and channelled for your goal, else any attempt to ‘self’-immolate will be still-born or evade side-ways.
Claudiu: and
Vineeto: Again, ‘I’ will not agree to become extinct because it’s a sensible idea or because the alternative is “ultimately dissatisfying”. ‘I’ need to be fully and passionately on board and for that ‘I’, the passionate ‘me’ as well as the sensible ‘me’ need to take part in the final decision as a passionately felt decision.
Claudiu: Richard’s report of sitting with it seems apt with minor modifications only, so I will go on this direction, e.g. instead of ‘fear’ it would be ‘aggression’ because I do really want to know, once and for all, what this aggression is which drives human beings for millennia into the horrible things we get up to on a regular basis on a global scale. (link)
I am fascinated what you are going to report. 
Cheers Vineeto
Yes, I have seen this experientially in myself. For example, if I am threatened and become fearful then I become aggressive to protect myself. This can also be seen in groups and countries.
Hi Vineeto,
It was like I had a feeling of excitement of going on an adventure, the thrill of the adventure of it. Richard wrote: “It is the adventure of a lifetime to embark upon a voyage of exploration and discovery; to not only seek but to find.” I was experiencing it like an exuberant thrill of going on an adventure – which thrill I experienced as visions of “going through a catacomb, heroically fighting off skeletal monsters with my sword”. Maybe it is a male thing, I played a lot of video games as a kid where you control a character doing just that 
. Srinath wrote this in his report of becoming free: “Richard had said that I needed to want it like nothing before. I pondered on what I had wanted before and recalled a simple childhood memory of being excited about going to the swimming pool when I was about 10 years old. There was this completely sincere and thrilling ‘jumping out of my skin’ desire to get in the pool. I was beginning to feel a similarly sincere thirst for oblivion.”
I experienced it like this level of excitement. I would just say it presented to me as this skeleton-fighting-adventure. It was not that I would be fighting myself to ‘win’ or succeed at this adventure, rather it was the feeling of excitement.
I see why you read it that way but the situation was a bit different. That vision was brief, then I went to the office to have a meeting, where I had a meeting with that same set of people the day before, but this time it was much more fun, I was being much more naive. When I came home, there was furniture that needed moving. It had needed moving for some weeks, and it was impeding our lives, so I applied my naive exuberance to the task, coaxing the other to get into it by saying well let’s just start by moving this one little piece here… it was proceeding well but then I perceived the other as starting to feel frustrated at the physical movements of it, we weren’t working well together, eventually I felt like the frustration became directed at me rather than the situation, and it ‘got’ to me, I felt bothered, and like it was unfair, here I was applying myself to solve a problem in a fun and naive way, and the response was frustration and annoyance directed at me.
That being said I see resentment is a better descriptor than full aggression. I actually did not realize resentment was on the ‘aggressive’ scale of the instinctual passions… maybe I should have by now?? Lol, woops.
Thank you for sharing this experiential report of how to effectively use the passion of aggression. It is well-noted.
It was such that my experience dramatically transformed to where I was far more aware of and recipient to pure intent, i.e. I had actually experientially turned towards the path of self-sacrifice. And I saw that it was a choice that I can do that! I don’t have to wait for a magic trick to happen or whatnot.
(EDIT: not sure how best to put it but it’s that I instantly became directed “outward” towards actuality and pure intent, rather than remaining where I was and not going in that direction.)
So it’s not that I saw it was a choice I can end it all right now this instant (I don’t see this choice yet) but I saw the choice to go onto the path towards that
What is stopping me now is… naught but the latest objection . Which I do not see clearly yet. However I am getting better at detecting how ‘I’ squirm out of seeing it. And applying bloody-minded stubbornness to see what it is. I see that it’s literally a matter of, I just have to look and see what it is!! Like there’s nothing really special about it. Just actually get to the bottom of it. This is wonderful because my personality naturally gravitates towards really wanting to get to the actual full bottom and understanding of whatever it is. So works out nicely :))
So far the most stunning thing was in seeing how I am the very source of violence itself!! Like it is where violence comes from. That’s how I felt it at the time – writing it now it’s more accurate to say it’s the source of feelings of aggression and malice rather than physical violence per se. But of course the former begets the latter .
There is indeed no way that I could ever clean myself up enough to ‘remove’ that somehow. I am literally the source of it!! It is me, I am this aggression. What you wrote is very apt:
This really makes it directly evident how self-immolating is for the benefit not only of this body but every body.
These explorations are very deep! It feels very raw. It is much more passionate than before. It seems I was holding myself back from going to these depths before. That is good, now I know better where the next steps are. Whatever it takes, I will get there.
Cheers,
Claudiu
It is odd, i feel the same as in the past when i was super driven at work. In other words i feel driven — but it’s as if there is a drive without any object to it. Or at least I don’t know the object of the drive. It certainly feels strange… I will get to the bottom of it tho!!
Claudiu: Hi Vineeto,
Vineeto: You say you “suddenly ‘got’ it” that “I will actually do this” … and then proceed with a ‘game’ created by “visions”, “heroically fighting off skeletal monsters with my sword”. I can’t really make sense of it.
Claudiu: It was like I had a feeling of excitement of going on an adventure, the thrill of the adventure of it. Richard wrote: “It is the adventure of a lifetime to embark upon a voyage of exploration and discovery; to not only seek but to find.” I was experiencing it like an exuberant thrill of going on an adventure – which thrill I experienced as visions of “going through a catacomb, heroically fighting off skeletal monsters with my sword”. Maybe it is a male thing, I played a lot of video games as a kid where you control a character doing just that . Srinath wrote this in his report of becoming free: “Richard had said that I needed to want it like nothing before. I pondered on what I had wanted before and recalled a simple childhood memory of being excited about going to the swimming pool when I was about 10 years old. There was this completely sincere and thrilling ‘jumping out of my skin’ desire to get in the pool. I was beginning to feel a similarly sincere thirst for oblivion.”
I experienced it like this level of excitement. I would just say it presented to me as this skeleton-fighting-adventure. It was not that I would be fighting myself to ‘win’ or succeed at this adventure, rather it was the feeling of excitement.
Hi Claudiu,
Thank you for your precise responses on all my questions. I have a much clearer understanding now from your descriptions how you are at present and it all makes sense.
Vineeto: I would have called it resentment rather than full aggression – you were interrupted in your vision-created game of “heroically fighting off skeletal monsters with my sword” and called upon to do something so mundane as moving furniture around.
Claudiu: I see why you read it that way but the situation was a bit different. That vision was brief, then I went to the office to have a meeting, where I had a meeting with that same set of people the day before, but this time it was much more fun, I was being much more naive. When I came home, there was furniture that needed moving. It had needed moving for some weeks, and it was impeding our lives, so I applied my naive exuberance to the task, coaxing the other to get into it by saying well let’s just start by moving this one little piece here… it was proceeding well but then I perceived the other as starting to feel frustrated at the physical movements of it, we weren’t working well together, eventually I felt like the frustration became directed at me rather than the situation, and it ‘got’ to me, I felt bothered, and like it was unfair, here I was applying myself to solve a problem in a fun and naive way, and the response was frustration and annoyance directed at me.
That being said I see resentment is a better descriptor than full aggression. I actually did not realize resentment was on the ‘aggressive’ scale of the instinctual passions … maybe I should have by now?? Lol, woops.
It seems not to matter now because you gained more insight into the aggressive aspect of the instinctual passions. Your co-workers would have also contributed with resentful/ angry vibes to the way you felt.
Vineeto: The passionate energy which can be harnessed could be an increased determination not to chicken out (at least that is what ‘Vineeto’ took away from it).
‘Vineeto’: Besides physical attack, aggression has many more subtle nuances: blaming, resentment, verbal abuse, nagging, boredom, being the victim, arrogance, clever-clever, competition, self-destruction and revenge. I made use of this instinct for becoming free as a bloody-mindedness, persistence, not to ‘let the buggers get me down’ and refusal to run with the crowd. (Actualism, Vineeto, AF List, Alan-b, 30.3.1999 )
Claudiu: Thank you for sharing this experiential report of how to effectively use the passion of aggression. It is well-noted.
You are welcome. Even though the correspondence was from 1999 when ‘Vineeto’ was still in the process of making sense of actualism, it indicates the intent to use, instead of pushing aside, any feeling or passion which arose for the purpose of ‘her’ final goal.
Vineeto: I do wonder – was this an apperceptive seeing or a mere thought – as in “to be or not to be that is the question”? If self-sacrifice is a genuine option, my question is what is stopping you now?
Claudiu: It was such that my experience dramatically transformed to where I was far more aware of and recipient to pure intent, i.e. I had actually experientially turned towards the path of self-sacrifice. And I saw that it was a choice that I can do that! I don’t have to wait for a magic trick to happen or whatnot.
(EDIT: not sure how best to put it but it’s that I instantly became directed “outward” towards actuality and pure intent, rather than remaining where I was and not going in that direction.)
So it’s not that I saw it was a choice I can end it all right now this instant (I don’t see this choice yet) but I saw the choice to go onto the path towards that.
Excellent. Your description that “I was far more aware of and recipient to pure intent” points to it being more of clear seeing rather than a mere thought. I see you are inching forward to make “self-sacrifice” as actual as possible.
Claudiu: What is stopping me now is… naught but the latest objection . Which I do not see clearly yet. However I am getting better at detecting how ‘I’ squirm out of seeing it. And applying bloody-minded stubbornness to see what it is. I see that it’s literally a matter of, I just have to look and see what it is!! Like there’s nothing really special about it. Just actually get to the bottom of it. This is wonderful because my personality naturally gravitates towards really wanting to get to the actual full bottom and understanding of whatever it is. So works out nicely :)) (…)
It appears you have an open question with the potential of giving you the seminal answer.
Claudiu: So far the most stunning thing was in seeing how I am the very source of violence itself!! Like it is where violence comes from. That’s how I felt it at the time – writing it now it’s more accurate to say it’s the source of feelings of aggression and malice rather than physical violence per se. But of course the former begets the latter.
There is indeed no way that I could ever clean myself up enough to ‘remove’ that somehow. I am literally the source of it!! It is me, I am this aggression. What you wrote is very apt:Vineeto: Can you see that what you want is to liberate both others and yourself from this very real and destructive feeling of aggression, not to mention the bad mood it comes with?
This really makes it directly evident how self-immolating is for the benefit not only of this body but every body.
These explorations are very deep! It feels very raw. It is much more passionate than before. It seems I was holding myself back from going to these depths before. That is good, now I know better where the next steps are. Whatever it takes, I will get there. (link)
It is wonderful to read, Claudiu.
Perhaps your last objection will become apparent and disappear upon seeing when you find out (as I said to Kuba (link)) – who or what do you want to give all of ‘yourself’ to? – as an equally open question.
Cheers Vineeto
Claudiu: What is stopping me now is… naught but the latest objection . Which I do not see clearly yet.
Claudiu: It is odd, I feel the same as in the past when I was super driven at work. In other words I feel driven — but it’s as if there is a drive without any object to it. Or at least I don’t know the object of the drive. It certainly feels strange… I will get to the bottom of it tho!! (link)
You don’t need any object – extinction is not an object, lol. Don’t let any mental searching or doubt disrupt this wonderful momentum towards your destiny. Richard describes this thrilling momentum in many places –
Richard: What ‘I’ do, voluntarily and intentionally (cheerfully and blessedly), is press the button which precipitates a, oft-times alarming but always thrilling, momentum which will result in ‘my’ irrevocable ‘self’-immolation in toto. What one does is that one dedicates oneself to the challenge of being just here, right now, as the universe’s experience of itself … peace-on-earth is the inevitable result because it is already always existing (‘I’ was merely standing in the way of it being apparent).
The act of initiating this ‘process’ is altruism, pure and simple: it is a rather curious decision – a decision the likes of which has never been made before nor will ever be made again – that it is imperative it be ‘me’ who will evince the final and complete condition which will deliver the goods so longed for by humanity for millennia … whereupon that thrilling momentum takes over and one realises one has embarked already (and once that impetus gets going one cannot ‘un-set’ the pace).
There is no pulling back – which is why most people do not want to set it in motion – because once one has started one cannot stop. It is a one-way trip – that is the thrilling part of it – and with application and diligence and patience and perseverance, born out of the pure intent garnered from the PCE, the exposure of the inner workings of one’s psyche (which is the human psyche) will readily occur in the course of everyday events due to ‘my’ concurrence … one cannot help but become fascinated for this means the end of the predicament which humankind has been agonising over for aeons.
Any reluctance to become fascinated is because of the ‘no turning back’ aspect. [Emphases added] (Richard, List AF, No. 60, 3 Dec 2003).
It’s indeed the ride of a life-time.
Cheers Vineeto
Hi Claudiu,
I remember ‘Vineeto’s’ momentum in ‘her’ last days in late December 2009 which I haven’t written down so far –
‘Peter’ and ‘Vineeto’ had planned for a xmas holiday of two-three weeks to spend in the remote wilderness of the Bungawalbin river, and set out in the houseboat to travel the 2-day journey. ‘Vineeto’ sat on the bow deck while ‘Peter’ steered, full of exuberance and anticipation because ‘she’ knew that ‘it’ was going to happen there and then – there was utter certainty that ‘her’ days were numbered and utter confidence that now the long period of searching and investigating and procrastinating was over. The whole boat journey of that day was an utter delight, full of joyous anticipation.
Richard hadn’t been sure if he would join us because he was residing in the river of the nearby town where he had met [Respondent No. 4 (D)] and planned to go back to the wharf in order to meet Tarin who in a few days was due for a visit. But ‘Vineeto’ was nevertheless confident that Richard would join them, in ‘her’ mind Richard’s company was vital to safely guide her in ‘her’ last moments.
‘Peter’ had anchored the houseboat overnight about the two-thirds of the journey and while ‘we’ were talking and frolicking ‘Peter’ heard a boat coming and urged ‘Vineeto’ to put on some clothes. But ‘she’ laughed and said with utter surety, “don’t worry, that’s Richard”. And it was! Richard had changed his mind and had travelled most of the night. When he had woken after a few hours of sleep he didn’t know which way the tide had turned the boat – north or south – so he had to use the stars to navigate (a skill acquired during his military service). It was a great meeting and an hour later we set off to the planned spot at the navigable end of the river, deep in the rainforest wilderness.
I never forget that journey or the days which followed prior to ‘Vineeto’s’ final release – it was the best time of ‘her’ life and the whole time it was filled with this utter exuberant surety that ‘her’ end was imminent. This surety even operated during the 2-3 out-of-control days, which served well to elucidate that ‘she’ was ready to give up anything and everything ‘she’ had valued, for ‘her’ ultimate destiny. (Well, in practical terms it wasn’t as radical as imagined ).
And the rest is history.
Cheers Vineeto
What a wonderful adventure! and I see that Richard’s life was a grand adventure through and through, in actual freedom too I woke up this morning with this same sense of exuberance and as if something became uncapped yesterday, it has been at times very intense but I cannot put breaks on this. Initially (yesterday) I thought it was about making it sudorific again, but then it clicked that ‘I’ don’t have to do anything else but keep this question sincerely and naively open - who or what do ‘I’ want to give all of ‘myself’ to.
Indeed ‘I’ don’t have anything else left to be doing at all! Even the question is not to be answered by ‘me’, rather ‘I’ will ‘be’ the answer when it is located. So ‘I’ just luxuriate in this exuberance of coming ever closer to ‘my’ destiny.
I looked at the definition of exuberance and it is actually the second one (applying to plants) which fits even better - the quality of growing profusely; luxuriance.
“plants growing with wild exuberance”
This exuberance and this “at times very intense” pace has the capacity to do this exactly.
