Also I wonder if this is to do with where one is at in general, I remember that at a certain point when I began having some success with the method and I switched from being a stressed and miserable individual to all of a sudden being able to function in the marketplace with relative ease, that I almost had this ‘second wind’ of trying to win at being ‘normal’. Because ‘I’ was no longer crippled by emotion ‘I’ was able to accomplish all those things which ‘I’ never could before. This was very much like what you are describing, that those roles and identities were now super charged. But where I find myself lately is that as I wrote above, this eventually hits a wall.
1 Like
I think @Kub933 is on the right track with this one.
Being ‘me’ is really a burden – and what ‘I’ am is a combination of all those various identities and personas (it is a myth that ‘I’ am ‘one’ persona, ‘I’ actually chimerically shift between different personas without even realizing it, and this seems to be common to everyone though perhaps some to a larger degree than others. I have a distinct memory of my usually very stoic, commanding, and consistently-persona’d business partner, watching him interact with his wife on and be flushed with a very obvious love and affection that suffused his whole demeanor.).
The startling freedom that makes joy readily available is from no longer having to maintain or ‘be’ any of those identities. When it all disappears as in a PCE, the difference is so palpable and tangible.
When a feeling-being, I can “see” that on the “other side”, once I am no longer having to maintain those identities, will be that palpable freedom and joy.
So why not “just do it”? What obviously stops ‘me’ is fear – fear of what will happen when ‘I’ am not around to control things.
So it seems the prudent approach is to accept the goal (self-immolation) and commit to doing the very best next sensible step I possibly can, which depending on where I am will either be: get back to neutral, get to feeling good, enjoy & appreciate feeling good, get to feeling great/excellent, increasingly allow the purity to operate, allow myself to let the controls be let go of, … and that’s as far as I have gotten so far 
2 Likes
I agree with everything you have said, guys.
I did not want to propose, for any reason, that we bring these various identities to their best realization, quite the opposite. Rather, by incorporating appreciation and enjoyment into the dynamic of each of them, we begin to dismantle them. Until they are no longer necessary. Exactly this as a result:
Is in that same sense that it made me noise to think of an actualist identity, that competes or supersedes the others, when rather we are in the process of weakening all of them. I suppose that the only truly substantial thing, when pointing an “actualist identity”, is the commitment to go to the end, whatever happens, with absolute sincerity and allowing pure intent to operate as much as possible. So that commitment have to be stronger than any other identity goal. Without a doubt, fear is the final barrier to completely disappear.
2 Likes
What I am noticing here lately is that this commitment is ultimately a commitment to enjoyment and appreciation, it makes sense now why the method is enjoying and appreciating this moment of being alive, the end and the means to the end are the same thing.
This enjoyment and appreciation starts with feeling good (an affective enjoyment and appreciation), and it becomes progressively cleaner as one allows more of the perfection and purity of the actual to shine through, eventually this becomes a pure consciousness experience, where there is direct experience of the perfection and purity, and of course there is enjoyment and appreciation, only enjoyment and appreciation at that point.
So it starts with an imitative enjoyment and appreciation and goes all the way through to an actual enjoyment and appreciation, but all the way through it is enjoyment and appreciation.
I am finding lately that those other ‘identity commitments’ are indeed falling away, it can be a little disorientating initially, this sense of “what now then?” And of course the answer is - enjoy and appreciate this moment of being alive, that is the thing to be done until that is the only thing left. If I allow this I find myself drawn into experiences of exquisite purity, it’s like the entire world is a shining jewel and there is nothing else to be done but to enjoy and appreciate, and of course from that vantage point the method makes a lot of sense.
It is quite a big thing to allow though, that without ‘me’ there is only that shining jewel left, there is only enjoyment and appreciation, there is only perfection and purity, and one could not possibly get away from it as one is always here and it is already now, in a sense for ‘me’ to be considering this is like madness by delight 
Maybe I am starting to see what Richard’s writings were pointing to, that if one were to proceed without some acclimatisation one could go mad with the amount of delight pouring forth.
1 Like
In fact I had 2 funny experiences like that lately. One was when I was squarely in excellence and I ate some grade 5 (strongest) blue cheese, and man it was intense! It was a bit too much but it was not an affective experience, it was a sensate experience.
The other was yesterday when I was sparring and I was very hot and thirsty, I went into the bathroom to drink some tap water out of the sink to cool down, the experience all of sudden flipped into a direct experience and I was blown away by how satisfying it all was, to actually experience all those sensations happening. It’s more satisfaction than ‘I’ could ever dream of and I was drinking tap water out of the sink
Talking with someone at length, I came to see that I actually have no responsibility whatsoever to change anybody’s mind!
I have no responsibility, or burden, to even change the world. ‘I’ cannot do it anyway. This is remarkably freeing.
What I can do is the very best, which is existing in the most harmonious and felicitous manner possible given the world is as it is and people as they are (which entails deep flaws and utter horrors and unbelievable madness) – and present facts and opinions to people as it may happen, and thereby give anyone I come in contact with the best chance they can have to perk up and take in what is being presented if it interests them.
And there’s really nothing else other than that! No responsibility whatsoever, how very freeing 
This also means, of course, that ‘I’ do not need to be in control for this… 
2 Likes
I am pleased to report that as of August 20th, an out-from-control virtual freedom has resumed
It is funny because the current experience is such that I had been out-from-control the entire time. But until it resumed, my experience of myself certainly wasn’t that I was out-from-control the whole time. But it is odd because I wouldn’t say this experience of having been out-from-control the entire time is misinforming me in any way… but I remember that it wasn’t like that. I remember Richard saying something to me like, once you are actually free your experience is like you have been like that your entire life. I said something like, but that is very strange because you weren’t like that your entire life – and he agreed that it is very strange (he emphasized the “very strange”).
I wrote as much to Vineeto, and she wrote back on August 21st:
And, referring to what Richard told me:
I am finding that it’s actually remarkably straightforward to impart actualism to my fellow human beings, even if they are not actualists.
One particularly mirificient occasion was when a fellow human being reported to me that they found it was not worth their emotional energy to continue being upset about a situation. I agreed with them, and pointed out how not only is it better for their own life, but it’s also better for the lives of everybody around them, as the effects of being upset percolate into the lives of everyone they interact with (such as by talking about it with others and it affecting their moods).
Then I said how it’s actually a key part of actualism (I had discussed actualism with them in the past), that being happy is actually not a self-centered thing, but a selfless thing to do. They weren’t sure what I meant. So then I pointed out how in order to stop being upset, you have to give up a part of ‘yourself’ – that part of ‘you’ that is upset – in order to allow feeling good to eventuate. And much to my delight, they saw exactly what I meant!
Then they brought up the immediate point, which is very relevant, of what is known in the “Burning Man” culture as a “glitter fairy” (or something like this). This is a person who is completely unaware of the impact of their own actions – they are just frolicking about, littering and disturbing the environment, but they themselves are having a good time. Is this person not being happy yet also remarkably selfish?
First I ruled out the possibility of them being “clueless”. I said pretty soon after somebody does someone will inform them that their actions are disturbing people. After that, they can no longer claim to be clueless. Then I pointed out how they are actually being inconsiderate, and how with actualism the goal is not just to be happy but to be happy and harmless. This, then, is truly selfless.
And they understood the point! They really fully got it. What a wonderful thing!
Another recent occasion was when discussing God with some fellow human beings. They said that they don’t believe in the God as in a Christian God in a religious/church sense, but that there is “something” out there that they believe in that they call God. This was in the context of me saying how people need something outside of themselves to not go off the rails.
I said that I found that “God” is actually redundant, because there is the universe which already exists, and already exists outside of anybody. And not only that but it is infinite, eternal, “all-powerful” in a sense… so there is no need for a “God”. And they got the point and said that that is a wonderful way to put it!
What I am also particularly delighting in is having ‘challenging’ conversations, ones with emotional conflict, with a vastly reduced emotional charge from my part. I find that when somebody isn’t understanding my point, and they react in a defensive or even offensive way, or even just in a disagreeable way, which would previously often upset me or cause me to converse more aggressively – now instead I am able to just “stop” and let the fact of the dispute exist on its own. I don’t need to express that emotional energy anymore. Instead it just sits there… and I find often I don’t really know what to say next. In the past this would be uncomfortable and I think this contributed to my lashing out aggressively in the past. But now I can just let the fact of the situation sink in for all. More often than not, the other person “recoups” and then says something, some follow-up, that allows the conversation to proceed towards a mutual understanding and agreement. Or after some pause I will think of something else to say. Or we will just move on to another topic! Why not?
Writing this out I appreciate just how much positive and beneficial impact a happy and harmless person can have on the people they interact with on a regular basis. Really this is not just for me, but for everyone.
4 Likes
That’s fascinating because it is also what I have observed in myself recently. I had a conversation with my mum the other day after which she said that I was being confrontational and was worried that I was also just as confrontational towards @Sonyaxx. It was delightful to be able to reply that I am at times even more ‘confrontational’ with Sonya, to which Sonya replied that she appreciates this.
I notice this in my general dealings with others too, that I am now able to be frank and direct, this doesn’t mean that I am insensitive or aggressive (what others would call confrontational) but rather that I simply wish to get to the facts of the matter.
I was contemplating this recent change and I notice that I am only able to be direct because I am virtually harmless, as in I do not have to go by the ‘rules of the game’ because there is virtually no malice which needs to be kept at bay. There are times when various emotions come up, but it is this ‘crippling effect’ that I described in my journal (Kub933's Journal - #1110 by Kub933), where they cannot turn into a mood.
The interesting thing here is that the meaning of the word harmless has been flipped upside down to what it would be understood as within ‘humanity’. Because within ‘humanity’ the one who is harmless is the one who can honour and respect the feelings of another (whilst completely disregarding the actual consequences of their actions).
Whereas I have no problem with what others would call ‘being confrontational’ if the situation necessitates it and if it actually assists a fellow human being in seeing the harm in what they are doing (both to themselves and others). Essentially what I am totally interested in is the actual consequences of one’s actions and what I am no longer interested in is optimising for one’s emotions in one way or another.
And of course what Richard did in going online with his journal and corresponding on the AFT would be seen through the eyes of ‘humanity’ as extremely confrontational and yet all those ‘holy cows’ needed to be exposed for what they are.
But it is a fascinating change to observe because it is something that would be urged against by all the societal conditioning (the morals and ethics) and for good reason too! I notice I am able to allow this way of operating only because of where I find myself experientially, it is the ongoing virtual absence of sorrow and malice which grants the confidence to operate in this way.
2 Likes
What I also find fascinating here is that this seems to be a necessary step, as in it is necessary to see that both ‘me’ and ‘humanity’ are rotten to the very core and as such one has the confidence to end both ‘me’ and ‘humanity’.
It seems this seeing of what harmlessness is actually all about is a step along this process, as in it is the clear and total seeing of the actual harm caused by ‘me’ and ‘humanity’ which takes precedence. And of course there is no longer any interest in maintaining the status quo in order to optimise for emotions.
Because at the end of the day no other ‘entity’ will grant ‘me’ the go ahead to self-immolate. It is a unilateral action because it requires going against the whole thrust of ‘humanity’. If one is to be a total traitor to ‘humanity’ there needs to be a complete confidence in this course of action being actually beneficial.
One is doing it for this body, that body and everybody.
2 Likes
Hi Kuba,
What wonderful reports you have written here recently!
It seems from what you are writing that you, too, are experiencing an out-from-control virtual freedom? I certainly recognize much of what is happening for me in what you write here. Do you currently assess yourself to be in this situation? When did you notice that it had properly began? Has it been continuous or on-and-off as it was for me at times (although I would call it more ‘pausing’ and ‘resuming’ in my case).
Vineeto has pointed out to me that there is actually very little available in terms of reports of being out-from-control – I would encourage you to write as much as possible of what is going on for you, as this will be valuable information for any current actualists and future actualists to come.
For me the biggest thing I would say to those who are interested in what is being written here, is how remarkably easy it is, and how much smaller the barrier to entry really is than I thought before. Before it started to eventuate it seemed impossible and like I did not know how to possibly do it. But now it seems very easy, it essentially maintains itself (although you do need sufficient intent and vitality and will to continue down it or it can indeed fizzle), and also life is just much better to be lived this way.
Cheers,
Claudiu
1 Like
So I can point to a specific day when things changed (and have remained so) which was when I wrote this post exactly a month ago - Claudiu's Journal - #188 by Kub933.
I wrote in that post that I noticed that the breaks no longer work and furthermore that my experience is that of an ongoing and dynamic excellence experience.
Since then the breaks have continued to be defunct, ‘I’ am unable to step back in ‘my’ cage. I can say without reservation that I am virtually free of malice and sorrow.
I have wondered if it may be an in control virtual freedom because it seems at times ‘I’ can still habitually engage in the same patterns that ‘I’ would do when back in ‘my’ cage.
But something is very different though because even during those times ‘I’ am not actually in control, it’s as if ‘I’ am just habitually playing out an act meanwhile pure intent is still withering things away, and this cannot be stopped.
And this has been a very interesting place to investigate from, ‘I’ can play out ‘my’ dramas to the full and in doing so they are exposed to the perfection and purity. It’s like ‘I’ am able to fully expose ‘myself’ to the perfection and purity with the knowledge that nothing will ultimately stick. And I have been making the most out of this aspect.
So my only reservation about calling it an out from control virtual freedom is that during those times the experience is not quite that of excellence, but what has remained unbroken is the fact that the brakes cannot be put on.
1 Like
Although the funny thing is that the second ‘I’ stop being busily engaged in playing out that act, excellence is once more the all round state of affairs. It’s as if I have my nose deep in a book only to pause for a second and look around to realise that I am in a wonderland, and have been all this time.
1 Like
As to how accessible this is I agree, the only thing it requires it seems is that one sees that the doors of ‘my’ cage are wide open, what keeps ‘me’ inside is nothing but ‘my’ own perversity.
Hey, Claudiu, can you expand on this? And what did you do exactly to ultimately cause or aid the shift to this state?
1 Like
Hi @Kuba, hi @Claudiu, hi everyone,
In the last week I have been busy reformatting and publishing Dona’s and Alan’s [dead-link] web-page on the AFT website at [Dona’s and Alan’s Report](www.actualfreedom.com.au/actualism/others/donaandalan’sreport.htm).
One of the major topics of this three-week event of answers to questions from forum members in 2017 was that there are no conditions to become actually free.
“Richard said there is no connection at all between feeling good each moment again and actual freedom. You can become actually free right now. But … In the meantime, while you’re living your life not actually free, why not feel good? As he says, this is your only moment of being alive, why waste it feeling bad?”
For instance –
9 Nov 2017
Geoffrey: There is something I’ve been thinking about since:
James: Dona, I have a question for Richard: What will it take for me to go the rest of the way to af?
Dona: Richard was confused by this question, as it sounds like you think there are steps, or “a way”. Actual freedom from the human condition is a pivotal/decisive moment. You are either actually free or you are not (full stop). It is not possible to go “the rest of the way”.
(my remark: same as a PCE… you are either in a PCE or you are not)
Dona: Since we cannot eliminate ourselves, by ourselves (you cannot pull yourself up with your own bootstraps) he suggests that you set this intention: “I give myself permission to allow it to happen.”
I remember making a remark on Slack that ‘allowing it to happen’ we usually used in reference to having PCEs, not self-immolation. And that it was a nice ‘parallel’ between the identity going in abeyance, and in oblivion.
But I was wondering if there was more to this than just a ‘parallel’.
Alan: Richard has never suggested “trying to self-immolate”. There are no ‘rules’ and no conditions for self-immolation to happen
… and there go my many ‘attempts’ lol, including yesterday’s one (when I was “contemplating on altruism”) – which interestingly ended in a PCE. This has happened lately, that when ‘trying’ to self-immolate I don’t end up in ASCs anymore, but in PCEs. This is the case since I’ve stopped ‘forcing it’, but instead trying to ‘allow it to happen’.
Alan: Such giving of oneself could result in self-immolation rather than a PCE but so far no one has self immolated by doing so. It is also very unlikely as, unless one has fully committed to becoming actually free (and any fear of becoming actually free means one has not done so), it will not happen.
Dona: yesterday Claudiu had a question regarding a fear of “losing himself” when intimate. Vineeto said that if he did give 100% it would most likely cause a PCE.
Today I questioned why it wouldn’t cause an actual freedom, and they answered that it could, but only when the person was ready and all of them agrees to it.
So the same thing that causes a PCE could result in self-immolation instead, if one is ready/has fully committed to becoming actually free.
And since:
Dona: perhaps you think that practicing the actualism method produces PCEs? It does not. PCEs are spontaneous occurrences
Then Self-immolation is a ‘spontaneous’ occurrence – when one is ready/fully committed.
- Is all the above correct?
- The same way PCEs can be ‘induced’, by ‘allowing them to happen’, can self-immolation be ‘induced’ by ‘allowing it to happen’ (if one is ready/committed)?
- Can I deduce from an ‘attempt’ that resulted in a PCE that the only thing lacking was the readiness, the commitment to becoming actually free? That the attempt was ‘correct’ so to speak… aiming in the right direction, but ‘failing’ because of a lack of ‘readiness’?
Dona: you posted Alan saying, “there is no trying” to self-immolate… And that there are no ‘rules’ and no conditions for self-immolation to happen. So, that same answer still applies to all your questions above.
Geoffrey: 4. If so I have to ask once more the question you must be tired to hear: how do I get ready?
Dona: again, there are no conditions, you are ready when you are ready.
Then in the meantime… (Lol… You know the answer…) … Yep, the actualism method.
Though Richard and Vineeto understand that you want a “formula” (Dona sidenote: so do I!) … There is none. Everyone is different and has their own way.
There are things that Vineeto suggested that she did … But … they are NOT to be considered “conditions”.
Know yourself (Dona: I recommend using the website for ideas on that).
Find all the objections to self-immolation (goes with the first one, know yourself).
Imitate the actual world as much as humanly possible.
Make it your number one aim/goal/ intent.
Allow it to happen (no forcing it).
Richard added: “there’s nothing you can do to become actually free, and there’s nothing you can’t do”.
Alan: Much the same as Dona has written. The main thing I got (again!) from our conversation is that there is no particular route to be followed. Your second and third questions are setting conditions. There are none! The experience (what they have ‘done’) of each person who has become actually free so far has been different. Vineeto said her experience was giving ‘herself’ permission to allow it to happen – but others did not experience that.
Become interested, vitally interested (until it becomes a fascination) in ‘you’ and how ‘you’ operate. Discover what objections there are to becoming actually free.
In the meantime commit to feeling good each moment again for the rest of your life and enjoy and appreciate this only moment of being alive – there is no difference between the ends and the means.
Richard: The way to an actual freedom from the human condition is the same as an actual freedom from the human condition – the means to the end are not different from the end – inasmuch that where one is happy and harmless as an on-going modus operandi benevolence operates of its own accord. [Richard, Actual Freedom List, No. 27d, 6 December 2002]
As we all know, Geoffrey succeeded in becoming actually free 10 months later and thus made good on his promise at the end of the question-answer-event –
13 Nov 2017
Geoffrey: No more questions for me.
Would you please transfer my most sincere thanks to them for the time they took to answer our questions, and for everything they’ve done since years to give us the life-changing opportunity to learn about actual freedom and walk the wide and wondrous path.
The third wave is coming! (it’s us).
Dona: Richard and Vineeto appreciated hearing this, with big smiles.
[link]
I very much enjoyed reading the whole web-page anew, and I also much appreciate reading on the forum now that another wave is coming yet again.
Cheers Vineeto
4 Likes
Thanks for all this great and helpful job @Vineeto !!
Hi Jesus.carlos,
You are very welcome, I enjoyed reading it all very much
1 Like
It’s fascinating reading your reports Kuba and Claudiu. I’m not where you are but it’s interesting how easily available intent and appreciation is these days - I read your reports and it’s like it’s all on tap, available to all. Massively fascinating. I didn’t sense much of the last wave but this wave seems to be almost ubiquitous, for lack of a better word.
Also thank you Vineeto for being here and adding some interesting back pressure at times (it really isn’t pressure, it’s more like the fascination over the new/revised materials keep piquing my interest over and over again, making it impossible to slack off).
2 Likes
Hi Felipe,
Sure – I’m basically saying that it’s a lot easier to go out-from-control than you might think it is.
With this message I’m really striving to address someone like me who really wants to know exactly how to go out-from-control so that they can actually do it. With that in mind… my perception of going out-from-control before I did it is best epitomized by my reaction in 2017 to this answer that Dona gave to Solvann:
At the time, when I read that Richard “skipped right over” an in-control virtual freedom and went directly to going out from control, my reaction was along the lines of a somewhat cynical, “well how special and magical ‘Richard’ was, meanwhile the rest of us have to work at it and it’s not so easy”.
Whereas the actually correct way to receive this information is: “wow, ‘Richard’ was a feeling-being just like we are now, and he was able to go directly out from control without a prolonged period of applying the actualism method… that means that anybody can do this too, going out from control does not have the prerequisites we might think it does, it’s really much easier!”
Further, when I read that Richard only had one instance of slipping to normal, and that he “didn’t do anything to get back to being out-from-control”, my reaction was again a similar type of “well Richard was so extraordinary that he could do that, the rest of us can’t”. Whereas the correct appraisal, which I can confirm from my own experience now, is “wow, how easy and effortless being out-from-control is! We should strive to do that as soon as possible!”
The way I would put it now, to someone for whom it seems nearly impossible to go out-from-control, is that, first of all, you haven’t done it before, so you don’t know how to do it, and indeed won’t really know how until it’s happening. But this doesn’t prevent you from following the advice of someone who did and trying until it works.
And, secondly, there actually is no barrier or requirement or prerequisite to go out-from-control, other than genuinely wanting it and allowing it to happen[1]. That is, the reason it hasn’t worked to go out-from-control is not because it is ‘hard’ or ‘difficult’ or you have to ‘be’ a special person or ‘wait’ until the time is right… it’s because ‘you’ have an objection, ‘you’ are putting up some resistance to allowing it to happen.
Having objections and putting up resistance is all perfectly normal of course… and it also serves as making it obvious precisely how to go about allowing it to happen: reflect on it, consider it, contemplate it, read the reports Kuba and I are putting out of what it is like to be out-from-control, consider what it would be like if this were happening in your life, intend to do it and allow yourself to do it, and when an objection comes up, look at it and resolve it – and rinse and repeat until it is happening!
What made this totally obvious for me, that it’s just about wanting it to happen, is what I initially reported in as a “speed bump” starting on Jul 27th (#194), elaborated as being “more of a derailment” 12 days later on Aug 8th (#198), which fully resolved another 12 days later on Aug 20th (#210). This is how the “derailment” started:
CLAUDIU: Faced with [the actual ending of ‘me’] as the obvious next step, I hit upon a distinct patch of hesitation and “well hold on a sec”. This is something that I will actually have to do, which will mean the actual end of me – no longer a theoretical step at some point in the future, but something that actually will happen, or rather has to happen for me to attain my destiny. [#194]
In other words, it was inescapably obvious that it was ‘me’ putting up a resistance that caused it to fizzle out. Over the course of those 24 days, I increasingly came to see that all ‘me’ and ‘my’ antics ever amount to is a completely sub-par outcome. In other words, I saw it was simply not better to remain being ‘me’ as ‘I’ was, it was a worse outcome not a better one. There was no silver lining either, there was no “it’s better in some ways but worse in others” – it was just clear that it is worse in every way.
Finally I had seen enough that I then began to be drawn back to it, and then with some concerted pin-pointing and thoughts of a particular objection, once it got resolved I found myself already back to being out-from-control as if there was no 24-day gap in it (as I wrote in #210).
In addition to everything above, I encourage you to (re-)read #173 where I gave some advice to @Kub933 who was wondering “how to proceed” from where he was into going out-from-control. It seemed to work for him as ~25 days later he was out-from-control, as he reported in #188.
I’ll also take this opportunity to encourage @Kub933 to answer this same question
Cheers & best regards,
Claudiu
I was about to add that you also have to know what it is – but Richard didn’t know what it is, him having been the first one. Probably you do have to experientially know what pure intent is, as that is what will be increasingly operant as a result of going out-from-control. ↩︎
2 Likes
Hi @Emp,
You are very welcome. I much appreciate and enjoy your feedback and your participation. It’s wonderful to see that so many share the fascination in this new and pioneering way of being alive and allowing pure intent to influence their lives.
It’s a great time to be alive.
Cheers Vineeto
3 Likes