Bubs b2wf journal

I realised that all roads lead to enjoying and appreciating this moment of being alive.

The advaita realisations, therapy, actualism, my past journals, even the most effective meditation method I’ve come across (TWIM) - they all almost shout out the same thing.

Which is…

Feel as good as much of the time as possible.
If not feeling good, address whats not making you feel good. Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

It makes no sense living in lala land of spiritual bypassing acting alls hunky dory when there are issues in life that need to be addressed. Not from an insecure validation seeking place, but from a peace solidifying place.

Buddism has its adherents practice precepts because if a code of morality isn’t followed it leads to distress and affects all aspects of life, including meditation and the progress of insight.

I was speaking to Srinath, and he said do the other stuff I wanted to do and get back to Actualism and solely focus on it, and I said no matter what else I do and even if I was to do Actualism - I will have to start with this foundation - which is feel good, (ruthlessly) address whats not making me feel good.

Later steps can be PCE’s, and extending that. I doubt I’ll get to self immolation ever, because you have to want it a certain amount, and I’m pretty ecstatic on a daily basis, and dont have the deep hatred of my feeling being that’s necessary. Might change in future. But it’s what I saw in Geoffrey’s and Srinath’s reporrts - that morning to night obsession, mixed with a revulsion for the feelng being. but I digress.

It was the Actualism insights that drove significant a-ha moments.

Which was basically to have a good life NOT the meritocratic, validation seeking life of the american rah rah motivational speakers but a happy harmless life where problems are addressed preferably ahead of time or along the way.

I’ve been regular with meditation - the goal being to feel good.
Been off the exercise as am nursing an injury but will get back in the next few days.

Made a list of problems, and set systems in place so they run on autopilot. Already have systems for most things, now just a couple more.

I like to say I have a problem free life, but can go plodding along with these thorns in my feet that make me limp, stumble, sometimes get infected and I just walk along acting like it’s all fine and dandy. Just take the thorns out and keep skipping along sunshine!

Will keep reviwing the list of problems every Sunday and tweak for the week going forward.

I started a system of working on my most stressful issue, and doing one job a day towards it.

I can often fool myself into being busy vs productive, and spread myself thin doing multiple things and feel I’m doing good, but blissfully aware and unware that I’m avoiding the most important issues.

So yes, looking to feel good, ruthlessly addressing what’s not making me feel good, drawing them into a list and putting systems into place to address them.

At the same time, NOT losing the progress I’ve made which is the end of seeking i.e. more than happy with awareness equanimity mindset, and NOT dropping back into old habit of making the Now come a distant second best to some arbitrary future.

PS B2WF is balls to the wall fantastic.

There are some issues that can largely be tackled physically/practically, but the main thing is getting to the point where it’s seen that whatever issue isn’t worth feeling ‘x’ about, even if nothing can be done about it.

It hearkens back to the classic ‘there are either issues I can do something about, or issues I can’t do anything about, and either way they’re not worth worrying about.’

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There are some issues that can largely be tackled physically/practically, but the main thing is getting to the point where it’s seen that whatever issue isn’t worth feeling ‘x’ about, even if nothing can be done about it.

I can only feel bad about it for three reasons, one is if i step into time and feel bad about it i.e. past or future and neuroticise.

Feel guilt for not doing it.

There’s a background stress that builds up avoiding tasks and that’s the spiritual bypassing or la la land avoidance I was speaking about. I can prattle on about present moment appreciation and enjoyment all I want, but if there’s procrastination over important issues that WILL affect my overall feeling of well being.

The first two reasons above are silly patterns to fall into, but the third (in my current reality frame) is unavoidable.

I dont pay a parking fine, and it builds up exponentially in the background with additional fines, and I keep ignoring the background stress of this building up in the background, then it causes issues.

Even procrastinating on one issue causes background stress, what if there’s multiple issues.

And I’m only talking about working on a niche set of issues, those issues if not addressed will cause problems downstreams. Bills, parkng fines, resolving conflicts with loved ones, etc.

The reason I said parking fine, was I got a parking fine that my maid chucked out, and I didnt chase it with the council and later got a hefty fine down the line, and i paid it or thought the payment went through but recently got a red letter in the post (2-3 weeks ag0) and haven’t checked if the payment has gone through. Needless background stress affecting my total wellbeing I could have addressed on day 1.

It’s these issues I’d like to ruthlessly tackle.

It hearkens back to the classic ‘there are either issues I can do something about, or issues I can’t do anything about, and either way they’re not worth worrying about.’

Just bloody make sure to do something about the issues I can do something about. that's my bottomline.


See, on the flip side, there is no free will, there is no control, because there is no Doer, and no self to control. And leaving it to Wu Wei and non forceful action so we dont try to do anything so nothing is left undone. BUT even with this letting go and surrender, important jobs fall by the wayside, and suddenly more Netflix happens.

Better I’ve found to move forward with an assumption of free will and let the chips fall where they may.

Yep. Another way to look at it maybe, just because there is no free will, doesn’t mean there is no will (a want or desire that compels movement to attain satisfaction/ avert displeasure).

Hi Bub,

In the interest of “Keep going” I wanted to let you know that your “address whats not making you feel good” is not what the actualism method is, viz.:

Although actualism is indeed about addressing whats not making you feel good, the way of addressing it that you’re talking about is nothing other than the usual, normal, well-adjusted adult, regular way of dealing with everyday problems in life, i.e. taking steps to cause the world around you to change such that the world is no longer arranged in the way it was when you felt bad about it:

And from the other thread:

That is, the problems you’re identifying are ‘problems’ with the world itself, how it is currently arranged, and your solutions consist of either changing the world when the ‘problem’ arises, or setting up a system in place so that the world doesn’t change in the ‘problematic’ way in the first place… to the point of making lists to try to pre-empt future ‘problems’ so that the world is never arranged in a way that you feel bad about. In other words, you’re talking about conditional enjoyment.

In essence ‘you’ are running the show, ‘you’ are letting ‘your’ feelings be the arbiter of what is ‘right’ and ‘wrong’, how things should be and what is ‘good’ and what is ‘problematic’, etc. Not only that, but you could argue (and many do) that ‘you’ are necessary to exist, in this case, because ‘your’ feelings let you know that there is a problem, and without them, you wouldn’t be able to function properly.

While in stark contrast, the actualism method is about enjoying and appreciating being alive in the world as-it-is with people as-they-are, i.e. without changing anything about the world… in other words, a (relatively) unconditional enjoyment.

e.g.:

and:

From the PCE you see, as a matter of direct experience, that it is factually and undeniable true that the universe is already perfect as-it-is, without anything possibly taking away from this perfection. As such the world does not need to change in order for this perfection to permeate. No matter what state the world is in, what (conditional) arrangement of the matter and particles and humans and things in it – it is already all perfect. Who am ‘I’ to say that something is wrong with the way things are? It is akin to saying that water is ‘wrong’ for flowing downstream.

‘Me’ feeling bad is essentially this - an objection to the way things are. As such the solution with actualism isn’t to change the way things are (from one equally perfect arrangement to another) such as to appease ‘my’ objections. Rather it’s about removing ‘my’ objections to things being the way they are. This is the only possible way to successfully continuously (i.e. (relatively) unconditionally) enjoy and appreciate this moment of being alive, otherwise there will always be endless objections and changing things to appease ‘me’. The problem is ‘me’, not the universe.

There are a few really important caveats here:

  1. Firstly it is far, far, way better and healthier to live life in the well-adjusted way you’re advocating here, which is that when you think there’s a problem, actually do something about it instead of ignoring it or moping or escaping or what-not.

    Indeed this same spirit is applied in actualism – there is indeed a problem and it does indeed need resolving. It’s just that in the normal way, the problem is the universe and the solution is changing the universe, while in the actualist way, the problem is ‘me’ and the solution is changing ‘me’.

  2. By no means take this as an endorsement of going back to a spiritual by-passing route of not doing anything about the conditional problems in your life! Although actualism per se isn’t about changing the world, it’s also not about not changing the world. What do I mean?

    Basically the point is that whether you change the world or not, can ultimately be independent of how you feel about it. The point is to feel good regardless of what is happening – but, given that you are feeling good, what do you do now?

    To use your example: say I’m feeling good now, but I got a red letter about an unpaid parking fine even though I thought I paid it. It’s better if I pay the parking fine now – even though I feel good whether it’s paid or not. Because it will be a bigger fine later or might escalate even more. So it’s sensible to pay it now, and to remind myself in the future to check that I pay it in the first place to avoid larger fines. The point is just that it’s silly to feel bad about the parking fine not being paid, and silly to continue to feel bad until the system to remind myself about fines. It is better to feel good throughout – and indeed, no ultimate reason not to.

    That being said, given you’re feeling good all the time, you might indeed have different priorities of what you need doing or not. But that’ll be up to you to determine on a case-by-case basis as you change your way of being in the world.

  3. And if you’re not feeling good, and can’t get back to feeling good, and you have an obvious problem in your life… it’s indeed silly not to do something about it. If you are conditionally upset about something but you can set up your circumstances to actually fix that conditional problem, then there’s no reason not to. Indeed it’s silly to ignore problems like this, and very healthy to fix it. Just keep in mind that it isn’t the actualism method per se to do it.

The basic point is to not let ‘your’ feelings run the show of what decisions to make. The idea is to move away from it feels ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ or it feels ‘good’ or ‘bad’, towards – what is sensible, and what is silly? Use cognition, intelligence, etc., to assess the situation, and determine the best outcome, by all means… you will just come to see that feelings don’t do anything but make this assessment more difficult.

That being said I find it most helpful not to think of this as an ideal to 100% strive for right off the bat, but a relative thing of, how can I do slightly better than where I’m at now? If I’m feeling bad… it’s slightly better to feel neutral instead, even if I can’t feel good. If feeling anxious is affecting my decisions… maybe I can feel slightly less anxious, or set it aside to think about it later, or come up with a way of reasoning that isn’t so affected by anxiety, etc…

Also I want to commend you on recognizing this! Indeed from your first posts you were presenting a persona of someone who doesn’t have almost any problems, and just a tiny amount that maybe needs some touching up or what-not. It is a big step to more accurately assess yourself and your life. Sincerity is vitally crucial for success with actualism.

Cheers,
Claudiu

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Lesson learnt - thank you sir.

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In the interest of “Keep going” I wanted to let you know that your “address whats not making you feel good” is not what the actualism method is, viz.:

Tons of a-ha moments in your words, it’s an old pattern I slip in and out of.

One where there’s a trusting and acceptance of the world as it is, and there is no doer, and no thinker, but just actions and thoughts and there is only the ISness of things which I have to accept

AND another where I neuroticise, micromanage and seek a illusory sense of control…

I keep swinging back and forth but in a myriad different ways the lessons keep coming back and they all say the same things - just enjoy the Now, accept the ISness of things, allow life to flow through me, and the magical unfolding of things.

taking steps to cause the world around you to change such that the world is no longer arranged in the way it was when you felt bad about it:

facepalm at my thoughts and actions. :rofl:

That is, the problems you’re identifying are ‘problems’ with the world itself, how it is currently arranged, and your solutions consist of either changing the world when the ‘problem’ arises, or setting up a system in place so that the world doesn’t change in the ‘problematic’ way in the first place… to the point of making lists to try to pre-empt future ‘problems’ so that the world is never arranged in a way that you feel bad about. In other words, you're talking about conditional enjoyment.

In essence ‘you’ are running the show, ‘you’ are letting ‘your’ feelings be the arbiter of what is ‘right’ and ‘wrong’, how things should be and what is ‘good’ and what is ‘problematic’, etc. Not only that, but you could argue (and many do) that ‘you’ are necessary to exist, in this case, because ‘your’ feelings let you know that there is a problem, and without them, you wouldn’t be able to function properly.

Yep, even more raised eyebrows at my own silliness.

While in stark contrast, the actualism method is about enjoying and appreciating being alive in the world as-it-is with people as-they-are, i.e. without changing anything about the world… in other words, a (relatively) unconditional enjoyment.

e.g.:

and:

Malice and sorrow has come up a few times in my actualism readings today.

Living in the world as it is, with people as they are - this is the lesson I keep fighting against, and one that I keep coming back to.

From the PCE you see, as a matter of direct experience, that it is factually and undeniable true that the universe is already perfect as-it-is, without anything possibly taking away from this perfection.

As such the world does not need to change in order for this perfection to permeate. No matter what state the world is in, what (conditional) arrangement of the matter and particles and humans and things in it – it is already all perfect. Who am ‘I’ to say that something is wrong with the way things are? It is akin to saying that water is ‘wrong’ for flowing downstream.

Eloquently put. And more pointers to my silliness,

‘Me’ feeling bad is essentially this - an objection to the way things are. As such the solution with actualism isn’t to change the way things are (from one equally perfect arrangement to another) such as to appease ‘my’ objections. Rather it’s about removing ‘my’ objections to things being the way they are. This is the only possible way to successfully continuously (i.e. (relatively) unconditionally) enjoy and appreciate this moment of being alive, otherwise there will always be endless objections and changing things to appease ‘me’. The problem is ‘me’, not the universe.

Fuck yeah.
There are a few really important caveats here:

  1. Firstly it is far, far, way better and healthier to live life in the well-adjusted way you’re advocating here, which is that when you think there’s a problem, actually do something about it instead of ignoring it or moping or escaping or what-not.

    Indeed this same spirit is applied in actualism – there is indeed a problem and it does indeed need resolving. It’s just that in the normal way, the problem is the universe and the solution is changing the universe, while in the actualist way, the problem is ‘me’ and the solution is changing ‘me’.

:rofl:

  1. By no means take this as an endorsement of going back to a spiritual by-passing route of not doing anything about the conditional problems in your life! Although actualism per se isn’t about changing the world, it’s also not about not changing the world. What do I mean?

    Basically the point is that whether you change the world or not, can ultimately be independent of how you feel about it. The point is to feel good regardless of what is happening – but, given that you are feeling good, what do you do now?

:pray:

The point is just that it’s silly to feel bad about the parking fine not being paid, and silly to continue to feel bad until the system to remind myself about fines. It is better to feel good throughout – and indeed, no ultimate reason not to.

:slight_smile: I can only smile.

  1. And if you’re not feeling good, and can’t get back to feeling good, and you have an obvious problem in your life… it’s indeed silly not to do something about it. If you are conditionally upset about something but you can set up your circumstances to actually fix that conditional problem, then there’s no reason not to. Indeed it’s silly to ignore problems like this, and very healthy to fix it. Just keep in mind that it isn’t the actualism method per se to do it.

I was feeling 90% good, and wanted to feel 100% good, but in that neurotic chase, I dropped to 0% good in the present moment. :slight_smile: Ooh, the irony.

Again, its’ repeated swings of the pendulum from the only sensible realisation to have and silly grasping fixing neurotic controlling chases.

The basic point is to not let ‘your’ feelings run the show of what decisions to make. The idea is to move away from it feels ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ or it feels ‘good’ or ‘bad’, towards – what is sensible, and what is silly? Use cognition, intelligence, etc., to assess the situation, and determine the best outcome, by all means… you will just come to see that feelings don’t do anything but make this assessment more difficult.

That’s a good way to look at things sensible vs silly as opposed good/bad right wrong.

Also I want to commend you on recognizing this! Indeed from your first posts you were presenting a persona of someone who doesn’t have almost any problems, and just a tiny amount that maybe needs some touching up or what-not. It is a big step to more accurately assess yourself and your life. Sincerity is vitally crucial for success with actualism.

Will be as honest and sincere as I can on here.

Thanks Claudiu, for bringing me back home.

Appreciating and enjoying this moment of being alive.

Worries crop up about certain jobs not getting done like tax filing - got an extension to complete it.

A lot of things get done, however a lot of jobs dont get done for e.g. spinach and meat that needs cooking and will spoil if I dont get to it.

On the one hand, I realise there is no doer, there is no free will or control and I’m a part of an overarching whole that is the experience of life living itself.

On the other hand, it’s very hard to let go of the illusion of the doer, and the old scramble to rearrange life the way I want it, even if it is fairly simple tasks like to cook some veg and meat.

I’m stepping more and more into accepting the present moment, and things as they are and so pretty much the only things I’m looking to change is to get that food cooked, file taxes and read a developmental edit I commisioned on a book I’m writing.

And I wonder even if that is too much to look to do, and just let things flow and continue to enjoy things.

Pretty much the only thing in my life that has stressed me out is not getting things done, and with recent realisations about no free will or control, I feel even less able to do things, because i dont want to force them. Wu Wei (not trying to do anything but nothing is left undone) means a fair few important tasks are getting done in the background). But some jobs seem almost impossible to get done. And this has been the source of a lot of neuroticism and stress in my life. Just like the opposite, getting stuff done fills me with more joy than anything else.

And so we come back to the pendulum swing of being chill, enjoying the present moment, and allowing life to flow, and stressing out over simple things not getting done, and trying to exert control.

I guess what I’m saying is that while on the ond hand it feels like there is no doer, letting go and enjoying the present moment and understanding there is no free will or control and life is just happening through me, and on the other hand slipping into feeling things need to get done, neuroticising over relatively simple and easy things not getting done, things becoming more difficult to do when I realise there is no free will or control, and then swinging to the other extreme of…
a mindset of believing there is free will and control, and trying to grasp at a sense of control and actually get more done when this happens - and really wondering is there a degree of free will and control - I know there is no doer, but the totality that I am a part of appears to have more control when it focuses on getting more done.

Believing in free will and control makes me able to exercise more free will and control, even if I do know I’m deluding myself. But the delusion is convincing. And I’d like to see through the delusion.

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Jiddu Krishnamurti was once told his audience what his secret was, and he said ‘I dont mind what happens’.

And I guess thats my journey.

It’s not to neuroticise about why I cant cook some meat or veg, nor about why it seems like there is a ‘me’, or even if it feels like there is a degree of free will and control.

But to just accept the Isness of things, whatever turns up, turns up.

( and a voice in my head says, yes, I learn this lesson and swing the other way, but the swings the other way are shorter, and I find myself much more often on the Isness, enjoyment and appreciating present moment poles of the spectrum).

Bub, will be direct here if you don’t mind in order to get straight to the point.

In a spiritual or enlightenment paradigm – at least Neo-Advaitic flavoured ones, one ‘sees through’ the illusion of a separate self, a doer – permanently. It’s all smoke and mirrors. Ta-dah you’re done. The actualist way is to see this as a fundamental error. A sleight of hand that does not acknowledge the felt being that you know you are, which remains regardless of whether you choose to acknowledge it or not.

Doer and Beer are used a little differently in actualism than in spiritual and new age circles: Social Identity; Social Mores

The ego-self (an emotional/passional-mental construct) who arises out of the instinctual-self (an inchoate affective ‘being’/amorphous ‘presence’ the instinctual passions automatically form themselves into) somewhere around age two as the doer of the affective experience of what is happening – as opposed to the beer of the affective experience of what is happening …

Doer = ego, thinker (but with some emotional elements)
Beer = soul, feeler, feeling being - that which you feel oneself to be

Usually these two things are quite merged, but you’ll eventually see the difference. This happens most clearly when you have EE’s. And when you go in and out of PCE’s.

The reason it’s hard to get rid of the Doer is because it is a reality. A thought/felt reality rather than actual one, but very real nevertheless, with tremendous power over you.

You may need to accept that this ‘no doer’ ‘no free will’ ‘life living itself’ thing may just be more spiritual bypassing – or at least the exact way you are conceiving it now. That’s a big ask I know, but this is the ‘emptying’ I was recommending in my earlier post. I think its pretty much the only way to avoid getting stuck.

Above, may go some way into explaining why you are conflicted and neuroticize i.e. trying to dismiss a ‘delusion’ that is your lived reality.

The present moment doesn’t need to be accepted. It is all there is. It’s either experienced as such or not. It can be experienced sensately in a PCE with the absence of feeling. That’s different from the present moment as a concept, as a recommendation for spiritual health, a new-age endorsement etc. I know I’m being a bit hard here, but it was something that I was stuck on for quite a while and I’d rather you not make the same mistake. The ‘present moment’ like the word ‘love’ has been invested with a lot of beliefs and values. This is not to say that you don’t genuinely have experiences where you are in or close to the present moment on occasion. Strictly speaking though this does not happen until one is in a PCE, so there’s a hard boundary there. Also you didn’t say this but ‘being in the present moment’ is an oxymoron - see if you can work that one out!

http://actualfreedom.com.au/actualism/vineeto/selected-correspondence/corr-time.htm

With the actualism method, you would examine obstacles to happiness and investigate them thoroughly to a point where clarity will emerge. If its still happening then stones still have yet to be turned. This can be a fascinating and fun process if you leave yourself open to non-premeditated answers. How that fits or doesn’t fit with Wu Wei I’m not too sure.

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19 posts were split to a new topic: Beer and Doer

In a spiritual or enlightenment paradigm – at least Neo-Advaitic flavoured ones, one ‘sees through’ the illusion of a separate self, a doer – permanently. It’s all smoke and mirrors. Ta-dah you’re done. The actualist way is to see this as a fundamental error. A sleight of hand that does not acknowledge the felt *being* that you know you are, which remains regardless of whether you choose to acknowledge it or not.

I’m not quite sure I get this.

Advaita gives an deeply felt and known understanding of the false self.

Actualism says this is still an illusion, and is a sleight of hand that does not acknowledge the felt being but you can truly get to it late in the self immolation process, felt being or not?

So one is sleight of hand and invalid (despite tens of thousands of people successfully and convincingly going through it (ego killing ie (awareness/soul/feeling being killing a different matter).

Unless you’re saying the felt being doesnt go with the ego, but truly goes with the awareness/soul and feeling being killing of self immolation.

Doer = ego, thinker (but with some emotional elements)
Beer = soul, feeler, feeling being - that which you feel oneself to be

Okay, think I got this without the confusion that the other thread appears to have meandered into.

Doer is ego, Beer is soul/awarenesss/feeling being.

Usually these two things are quite merged, but you’ll eventually see the difference. This happens most clearly when you have EE’s. And when you go in and out of PCE’s.

Okay, can’t truly get rid of Doer, if Beer is strongly preent. if they’re quite merged.

The reason it’s hard to get rid of the Doer is because it is a reality. A thought/felt reality rather than actual one, but very real nevertheless, with tremendous power over you.

So advaita Doer ridding is invalid, and Actualism Doer ridding is valid because Actualism acknowledges the thought/felt reality of things, and the process is somehow ‘better’ or more ‘effective’ (keeping in mind, Advaita also fully acknowledges thought/felt reality with tremendous power).

You may need to accept that this ‘no doer’ ‘no free will’ ‘life living itself’ thing may just be more spiritual bypassing – or at least the exact way you are conceiving it now. That’s a big ask I know, but this is the ‘emptying’ I was recommending in my earlier post. I think its pretty much the only way to avoid getting stuck.

You’re askng me to choose one or the other. Advaita or actualism, and I might very well do so down the line.

It is indeed spiritual bypassing, and thats why I’m asking for assistance here for peoples thoughts on it.

I’m nowhere near realising the ta-dah smoke and mirrors realisation of advaita, or even actualism.

But you’re saying I’ll never get there because nobody gets there with advaita, and its only through actualism that one can get there because only actualism truly recognises the thought/felt reality. That doesnt make sense maum.

Above, may go some way into explaining why you are conflicted and neuroticize i.e. trying to dismiss a ‘delusion’ that is your lived reality.

Advaita wont get me there, and if it will, its not valid, but actualism is.

Please excuse the challenging tone, you know what Im like.

The present moment doesn’t need to be accepted. It is all there is. It’s either experienced as such or not. It can be experienced sensately in a PCE with the absence of feeling. That’s different from the present moment as a concept, as a recommendation for spiritual health, a new-age endorsement etc. I know I’m being a bit hard here, but it was something that I was stuck on for quite a while and I’d rather you not make the same mistake. The ‘present moment’ like the word ‘love’ has been invested with a lot of beliefs and values. This is not to say that you don’t genuinely have experiences where you are in or close to the present moment on occasion. Strictly speaking though this does not happen until one is in a PCE, so there’s a hard boundary there. Also you didn’t say this but ‘being in the present moment’ is an oxymoron - see if you can work that one out!

Vineeto – SC Time

In the words of George Bush, you misunderestimate me. Of course, the present moment is all I or anyone else has.

Stepping into it is me locking myself into present time instead of wafting into future or past. Just acknowledging present time circumstances and sticking with them.

With the actualism method, you would examine obstacles to happiness and investigate them thoroughly to a point where clarity will emerge. If its still happening then stones still have yet to be turned.

I’m reading a fair bit of actualism, working through Peter’s and Richards journal I bought off the AFT site, and still in the dark with how exactly this happens. Peter speaks a lot about questioning beliefs and passions, and realising they are BS, but havent gotten to the part where he shows how this is done.

I think that’s a great move, I’ve read Richard’s journal so many times now and still every time I read it something else clicks. It definitely takes a long time to truly digest what it is that he is getting at.

The problem is that the spiritual viewpoint is so deeply entrenched into the current human worldview that it is almost impossible to grasp that a totally different alternative exists. As ridiculous as it sounds at first actualism is that completely different alternative. The current human understanding is fundamentally based on the belief in the metaphysical, in one way or another.

This is something that can get quite fun eventually, to see just how deeply the spiritual viewpoint permeates, into morality, science, nutrition etc.

Peter’s journal is probably the more easily digestible one at first and has more of a ‘down to earth feel’ to it I guess haha. I have always liked Peter’s writings for this reason, they seemed straightforward and pragmatic when Richards writings still seemed like the ramblings of a mad man lol.

In terms of how beliefs are seen as BS, this is something that I used to struggle with accepting. This is because the default mode we are conditioned to use is trading one belief for another (more truer) belief. So at first it seems like you are looking at these beliefs but you do not see an alternative, so what exactly is being done? But what you might find eventually is that this looking is indeed doing something, it is applying attentiveness to the inner world (without having a pre-designed answer ready). Then eventually and sometimes completely unexpectedly the fact is seen with utter confidence, this causes the belief to dissolve. There is always this incredible sense of discovery and freedom that comes with this. Because now there is genuine certainty whereas before there was the shuttling between belief and insecurity.

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That is how it’s done :grin: you question them and this questioning leads to seeing that they are BS, because they don’t hold up under questioning.

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Not sure I understand. Are you saying that it feels deep and intuitively known for you personally? Or is this generally what it gives everybody/most people?

Don’t know how good this analogy is but it makes some sense to me. Think of it like a crime show on a TV screen. Adavita and certain forms of Buddhism, would zoom into the screen pixellating it until it was the blinking of the RGB lights on the LCD display and conclude it did not exist. Actualism would force you to come to terms with the fictional reality of the crime show and its real effects on you – eventually allowing you to pull the plug on TV and cancel the show. Whereas with normal life you might just watch the TV show uncritically thinking of it as a real thing.

And in actualism the illusion is only eliminated after self-immolation, when the feeling being is no longer present.

For advaita, it gets worse than that actually :grin: Claudiu can correct me, but I don’t think Richard would accord it the status of true enlightenment, which he would define as ego death without soul/feeling-being death. Actual freedom is the death of both ego and soul/feeling-being death.

Might not surprise you, but these sorts of questions come up a LOT. Richard and others have answered and re-answered them numerous times in some eye-watering detail. You can check it out if you have the patience for it, by just doing a Google site search on the AFT and looking for words like ‘advaita’ ‘enlightenment’ etc.

I did give myself a headache reading through a lot of this when I first came upon actualism, ultimately though I used the following MO. 1) Aim to find out what actualism/actual freedom is on its own terms without getting side-tracked or irritated by the claims. 2) Keep the claims that can’t be swallowed to the side for now e.g. for me it was that Richard was the first person to become actually free, this stuff about AF surpassing the wisdom of thousands of years, all the ego death and soul death stuff which was beyond my pay-grade to verify 3) Start practicing the actualism method, while simultaneously trying to understand it more and more.

Good or at least close enough.

It’s getting late here. I’m going to have to reply to the rest of your post later. Hoping @claudiu you can help out. You’re good at this stuff!

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Wow that is an awesome one! @Andrew I think this is the perfect answer to that ‘dichotomy’ in the other thread we had if you remember?

Yeah, I like it. I was already a fan of the metaphor of a movie theatre. This TV one is different, in that one is pulling the plug on the TV. The movie one, I just walked out of.

I thought I’d expand a bit since I do remember being similarly confused of “but HOW do I do it ??”

There’s a few key components:

What ‘Belief’ Means in this Context

“Belief” is a bit of an overloaded English word. Consider these sentences:

  1. I believe in God.
    1b. I believe that God exists.
    1c. God exists.
  2. John is 30 years old or so, I believe.
  3. I believe I saw Carrie when I went to the store last week

Each one is slightly different.

#1 represents a belief in this actualist context sense - as “an emotion-backed thought” or “something you fervently wish to be true”. Note that obviously you don’t have to use the word ‘belief’ in the sentence to be stating a belief (1c is equivalent to 1 and 1b).

#2 is not an emotion-backed thought per se. It’s somebody assessing the facts (what the person looks like, what they know about them) combined with their life experience (what people of this age range look like and how their life situations tend to be) and making a guess or opinion as to what the case is.

#3 is also not an emotion-backed thought. It’s somebody making a best guess of what they think is the case based on possibly faulty memory.

Also consider:

  1. [regarding a business plan] I believe this plan will make our company profitable.
  2. [regarding a business plan] I believe this plan will make our company profitable.

These two are literally the same words but I wanted to distinguish that one can be a ‘belief’ (as an emotion-backed thought) and one not. #4 is a business that the planners have a lot of experience in, they’ve done it before, they know the ins and outs, and they make a decision based on what they think will work. This is a best-guess assessment, not an emotion-backed thought.

But #5 is where they really feel that if they keep advertising them chicken hot dog turkey chocolate burgers in the NY Times then it’ll work cause thats how their grandpappy did it and by God it’s gonna work this time too! This is just an emotion-backed thought that they believe will work without a particularly good reason so except emotional ones.

The basic distinction of all this is between “considering everything, this is what I think is the case” vs “I feel it, really feel it that this is right, it doesn’t matter what you say”.

These often get conflated into the same thing – but they are different beasts entirely. The dismantling of beliefs in actualism in particular deals with the latter, the “emotion-backed thought”. The rest of this piece will use the word ‘belief’ in this sense.

Sticking to the Facts

The essential way to dismantle a belief is to look at what the actual facts are. If you know what the facts are, you don’t need to believe that it’s the case – you simply know that it is.

Example: there is a device screen in front of you. You don’t have to believe there is a screen in front of you. You know it as a fact because you see it, it’s apparent via that sensory input. But you never see God in this sensory way – so you have to believe in God, since there are no facts that let you know of His/Her/Its existence (this is why you gotta have faith – and it’s even extolled as a virtue).

If you suddenly felt really strongly that there was a person standing behind you watching you — then you would just have to turn around and see there is no person. The fact (nothing behind your shoulder) dispels the belief (there is a person there). And if you do see a person then the fact (there is a person there) renders the belief redundant.

Essentially if you always start only from what you 100% actually know to be a fact, and you only follow chains of reasoning that are valid and only use those facts as their rational basis, then you will always be in fact-land and not in belief-land.

What is a Fact?

This raises the question of, what is a fact? It’s generally undisputed what a fact is. That’s why the Trumpian “alternative fact” was automatically seen to be ridiculous – because there is no ‘alternative’ to a fact. There are facts, and there are thing that aren’t facts.

Facts are things that are actually the case. Either something is currently the case, or something was the case in the past. (Etymology helps us here – the word “fact” comes from “Latin factum [… meaning …] “a thing done,” noun use of neuter of factus, past participle of facere “to do”” (source). It literally means “something that has actually happened”. ).

There can’t be any facts about the future because it didn’t happen yet. You don’t actually know the sun will rise tomorrow morning. You can assume it will (actually that the earth will rotate it into view again :wink:) because it happens so reliably, but something catastrophic could happen to the Sun, or the earth, or more likely than that you might get run over by a car and never see tomorrow. Although if that were to happen the sun would still rise, you just wouldn’t see it :smile: .

How do you know if something is the case now? Essentially you know it by your own experience of it, i.e. your senses. You see this, you sense this with touch, you hear this, etc. You know the fan is on cause you hear it whirring.

How do you know if something was the case in the past? With memory of having experienced it yourself. Then there are those things you didn’t personally witness. For this you rely on other people. You generally accept that people are talking about things that are the case. But when it comes to dismantling a belief it pays to be extremely stringent about what you accept to be the case, since people can make up all sorts of things to prop up their beliefs.

Also note that just because you can be mistaken about what is a fact (e.g. you think the fan is on in the living room but actually that whirring is some other thing making a noise from elsewhere) doesn’t change what a fact is. It just means you can be mistaken about what the facts are. But this doesn’t mean you believe the wrong thing – you just need to be presented with or find evidence that the thing you thought was a fact, wasn’t, and your understanding automatically adjusts.

Very Few Facts on the Ground

The initially tricky bit is that you will come to find with most things that there are very few actual facts. 99% of the time people are just spewing beliefs about this or that. Essentially 100% of political conversations are like this. People will spout rhetoric and fling statistics around – but statistics can be tricky and aren’t necessarily factual, or they can present facts in a misleading way.

“Republicans are destroying this country” or the equivalent “Democrats are destroying this country” … how do you even go about demonstrating that? First you’d have to come up with how to tangibly measure “destroying a country”, then you’d have to show that the actions “Democrats” take are leading to that. But what are “Democrats”? There are a myriad of people that can fall under that category, and they’re all doing different things. You have to totally revise the statement to even begin to evaluate whether it’s factual.

So you might pick a particular topic like: “interfering with the democratic electoral process”. Ok, and what are the ways that might be done? Let’s say “making it harder for people to vote”. Ok what specifically? Let’s say “requiring ID to vote”. And how would they do it? By passing a law to that effect. And are all Repulicans/all Democrats everywhere supporting? Well… no

So you’re left with something like “some Republicans/Democrats in the state of X voted for a bill that would require ID to vote”. This is something that is either a fact or it isn’t. But also notice how impossible it is to get emotionally worked up about whether this is True or False. You can argue vehemently and get heated about whether “Republicans/Democrats are destroying the country”… but there’s no arguing about whether this particular ballot measure was voted on and by whom. (You can argue about whether this ‘intereres with the electoral process’ though … so that then is the next piece of the belief to look into.)

Basically with any of these far-reaching type of beliefs you’ll see that it’s impossible to make such a simple, blanket assessment. It all comes down to finding the individual pieces of fact and then building up an assessment or understanding of that – at which point the belief is simply redundant and is therefore dismantled.

Sincerity

Sincerity is another key component here. You have to actually be scrupulous with what you know to be a fact and what you don’t. If you lie to yourself about it then you have no shot of dismantling beliefs.

This can be especially tricky with beliefs about yourself. “I always am responsible and take care of things.” Ok, is it really always? What about that time you did X Y or Z? etc…

Or “for a relationship to be good I need my partner to do A, B and C”. Ok do you really ‘need’ them to do it? What if they don’t? What specifically in you is triggered if they don’t do A, B, C? Is it worth letting that take away from enjoying and appreciating?

Naivete

Another crucial thing is the simple naivete to realize “It doesn’t have to be this way.” Basically any belief you take, you need this aspect of “It doesn’t really have to be that way”. Like why does it have to be this particular way? It could be some other way couldn’t it? Do I really need X? Am I really like Y? Do I have to be? Is it set in stone? Let’s find out…

Experience Tends to Dismantle Beliefs

One thing I and others have noticed is the more experience you have in an area, the fewer beliefs you tend to have about it. When you really know the ins and outs of a particular thing, you actually have a factual and experiential underpinning for making assessments. You don’t have to believe if X or Y is the best way to do it. You can evaluate both with their merits, and further, you know when you don’t know. This means you know when you need to go figure out more facts about it.

Whereas when you have no experience it’s easy to just have a feeling of which one ‘should be’ more or less right, and then believe in it fervently. Notice that in this case you’re in a far worse position to actually evaluate it. So you’re simply more likely to be wrong, but to believe more strongly in it than the person with experience… this should indicate a problem with the process of ‘believing’ in and of itself.

It’s OK to not “Know”

This seeing through of beliefs can be a bitter pill to swallow. Basically you will come to see you don’t know even half of the things you thought you knew (probably 80%+) and that your whole life you’ve been latching onto beliefs that you picked up from other people.

You will come to see that this is ok and you don’t actually lose anything by recognizing this. It’s already the case that you have no idea – now you just allow yourself to see it.

And in the meantime you can still keep doing the things you normally do on a provisional basis, until you figure out something better. So doesn’t impact your ability to function.

All this leads to a remarkable skill and ability to actually figure out anything you want to figure out, by methodically applying your mind to it.

Replace Beliefs with Facts & Opinions/Assessments

So basically you’ll end up dismantling your beliefs, one by one, and you’ll be left just with indisputable facts, and things that you don’t know are the case but you think they are the case because of X, Y and Z.

This will severely diminish your capacity to get into fiery debates :grin: . But if you ever feel like one you could still throw it all out the window and go for the jugular. However if and when you do, pay attention to the dissonant feeling afterwards, that you weren’t strictly sincere and didn’t strictly stick to the facts and look at what mayhem that caused… it will be your friend for avoiding another bout of it next time!


Not sure if this helps elucidate how to dismantle beliefs – let me know your thoughts!

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Sure helped me!

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Basically from what I understand, Advaita is where you ‘see’ that that which you experience as ‘ego’ is ‘false’. But ‘ego’ remains (i.e. those things that were called ‘ego’ before still happen), it’s just ‘seen’ as ‘false’.

This is a paltry imitation of Full Enlightenment which is where the ‘ego’ itself disappears entirely, such that there is only Soul (i.e. the Absolute).

Richard experienced the Full Enlightenment so his writings about Enlightenment are referring to this.

With actual freedom, both ‘ego’ and ‘soul’ disappear entirely, and you see that they were an illusion all along.

With ‘ego’ and ‘soul’ still remaining - or with just ‘soul’ remaining in Full Enlightenment - the illusion is still being experienced and felt to be existing. It doesn’t matter if you don’t think the illusion is real – if it’s still happening, it’s still happening.

For a simple way to put it: If you feel angry you can pretend you’re not angry, but that doesn’t make you not angry…

What does “invalid” mean? An experience can’t be “invalid” per se. It’s either experienced or not. It’s something that is happening for a person.

But the conclusions drawn from this experience can be valid or invalid.

To conclude the ‘ego’ is ‘false’ but still be experiencing it, and conclude that this is all there is to be done about this human condition, is what is invalid. There is much more that can be done.

The ‘felt-being’ (i.e. soul/Soul) indeed doesn’t go until actual freedom (self-immolation).

But it can temporarily disappear in a PCE, and then you will see for yourself what it’s all about. Until then you have to take it as a supposition :slight_smile: .

Basically the real value of these convos is for you to allow yourself to have a PCE, at which point you take it from there, unravelling pure intent from that PCE like a golden [1] clew [2] [3], and following that golden clew as a lodestone or guiding light.

Roughly speaking, yes. It isn’t exact though. For example in an Excellence Experience (EE), the ‘doer’ is abeyant and the ‘beer’ is ascendant, which might seem to therefore logically mean that there is no ‘ego’ present and it’s all ‘Soul’ and therefore an Enlightenment experience. But it’s something else entirely.

Probably because in an EE the ‘beer’ is ascendant but all of it, in a sincere and naive and felicitous way, as opposed to just the ‘good’ parts of Love & Compassion that are expressed in the Enlightenment-type experience (or alternatively Peace or Silence etc…)

Hmmm think of it more like ‘beer’ or ‘soul’ is who you feel yourself to be at the very core of yourself. It is ‘you’ at ‘your’ essence. Everything else ‘you’ are – be it ‘ego’ or ‘feelings’ or ‘doer’ – is constructed out of this raw material and shaped via various feelings, moods, emotions, passions, etc.

When normally going about it ‘you’ experience ‘yourself’ as the ‘doer’ of things, the little man in the center of ‘your’ head, receiving input through ‘your’ eyes and ‘your’ ears, commanding ‘your’ arms and legs to move this way and that, directing ‘your’ thoughts, etc. ‘You’ are this controlling entity in ‘your’ head.

But really this ‘you’ is just the tip of the iceberg:

Underlying this ‘you’ is the vastness of the ‘soul’ or ‘beer’ which is who ‘you’ are at ‘your’ core. Much like the iceberg, the ‘doer’ isn’t actually separate from the ‘beer’ – one is made from the other. It only is apparently separate (like the water-line in the image above). But really it’s all the same substance.

However it feels like you aren’t – the controller ‘doer’ feels like ‘he’ possesses feelings or that feelings happen to him, without recognizing that ‘he’ is those feelings.

Seeing that you are all at once the whole iceberg is one of the keys to success with actualism. This is essential to be able to be sincere.

In an EE you basically are allowing yourself to be this whole iceberg, and your experience of yourself now is as of being this whole iceberg instead of just the tip of it. I don’t experience it like ‘ego’ vanishing per se (in the way all of ‘me’ vanishes in a PCE), more like ‘ego’ takes a back-seat. It’s like ‘I’ take a back-seat but then as soon as ‘I’ do ‘I’ now experience myself as this all of ‘me’ that is there already, so the sense of who ‘I’ am shifts. But it’s almost imperceptible at first which is really funny.

Well it’s not that the ‘doer’ has power over ‘you’. That’s adding a 3rd layer of splitting on top of the picture:

It’s more that ‘you’ (the person reading these words right now) are this ‘ego’/doer. That’s what ‘you’ refers to in this context – the ‘you’ that ‘you’ are thinking yourself to be.

It’s hard to ‘get rid of this’ you because it is you :smile: . ‘You’ can’t really get rid of ‘yourself’. You have to acknowledge your felt-to-be-real existence and then allow yourself (as that illusion) to take the back-seat.

It’s more that it doesn’t actually rid of this ‘doer’. From what I understand it’s that you “realize” that this ‘doer’ is ‘false’. But ‘you’ still are the ‘doer’. You just experience yourself as ‘false’ (?) I don’t have an experiential understanding of this so I may be missing the mark.

I have experience with Dharma Overground-style Vipassana tho (originating from Mahasi noting). The idea with this is that I would experience these things that make up the ‘self’ or ‘ego’ as impermanent, not-me, and dukkha (suffering/unsatisfying). And thereby I came to experience this ‘self’ as not having ‘intrinsic substance’ or ‘empty’. Which I believe might be similar to what the goal of Advaita is.

But my experience – and report from Daniel Ingram who said he went all the way as far as this regard goes – is, with how I’d put it in actualist terms, that ‘I’ was still the ‘doer’, still present as ‘ego’, I just experienced myself in an dissociated way as “not really being that ego” because “there is not really a ‘me’”. So I was the cloud floating above the iceberg instead haha.

It’s “valid” and “better” and more “effective” because the “doer” actually disappears, while with Advaita it doesn’t.

It’s like when I’m angry, Advaita would be “I’m not really angry even though angry feelings keep happening and even though these angry feelings are a “thought/felt reality with tremendous power””, while with actualism it would be “I actually am angry; let me see the reasons why…” and then once you see why, you’re actually not angry anymore, then you say “I’m not angry” and the anger is actually gone.

It’s more a question of what “there” is. The “there” of Advaita is a different “there” than that of actualism:

Advaita will get you to Advaita’s end goal, but this is different than the end goal of actualism. It’s up to you to decide which you want for yourself.

Again depends what “valid” means? It will be an experience as reported by those succeeding with Advaita. But it would be incorrect (i.e. not a fact) to say that this is the same as actual freedom. They’re just two different experiences. Which you want… is up to you :slight_smile:

The ‘present moment’ that you are ‘stepping into’ is not the “this moment” of actualism. The ‘present moment’ you refer to is just another illusion. A PCE will show you what the “this moment” of actualism refers to.

Note that until you have such a PCE, the term “this moment” will forever be a phrase without a referent [4]. It is just important for success to recognize that the referent of ‘present moment’ – the experiences you have had that you use the phrase ‘present moment’ to refer to – are not the referent of “this moment”, i.e. not the experience of “this moment” as in a PCE.

See Bubs b2wf journal - #18 by claudiu :smiley: .

Cheers hope that helps!
Claudiu


  1. i.e. pure, actual, unadulterated by ‘self’ or ‘Self’ or ‘ego’ or ‘soul’ or ‘Soul’ ↩︎

  2. The “ball of thread” meaning of clew (from Middle English clewe and ultimately from Old English cliewen ) has been with us since before the 12th century. In Greek mythology, Ariadne gave a ball of thread to Theseus so that he could use it to find his way out of her father’s labyrinth. This, and similar tales, gave rise to the use of clew for anything that could guide a person through a difficult place. This use led, in turn, to the meaning “a piece of evidence that leads one toward the solution of a problem.” [source]

    ↩︎
  3. See also: Frequently Asked Questions – Where does Pure Intent Come from? . ↩︎

  4. referent: “the thing in the world that a word or phrase denotes or stands for.” ↩︎

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