Bubs b2wf journal

[Andrew]

@bub

Though I was going to respect your instructions not to reply or post anything to you, I thought you may be interested that you featured briefly in the mushroom trip I had today.

“Bub” was me, and I was “bub”. Which I already knew in theory, it was cool to experience it.

Whilst I was pleased to see you engage for more than a week, I was also aware that I was justifying my blunt “welcome” by this fact.

What you can’t be aware of, and what I reacted to in my own fashion is that in the decade I have been interested in actualism, I have seen dozens of people far more psychically talented than myself come and go.

My “un-welcome, welcome” was both a reaction to “here’s another one” and attempt at creating a hook to keep you around.

I thought today that it was silly to justify the previous reaction with the later good intentions.

When I say I have witnessed dozens, I can actually count from memory three. It feels like a lot more though.

So, welcome. I am glad you have stuck around.

[bub]

Peter’s journal is probably the more easily digestible one at first and has more of a ‘down to earth feel’ to it I guess haha. I have always liked Peter’s writings for this reason, they seemed straightforward and pragmatic when Richards writings still seemed like the ramblings of a mad man lol.

Easy interesting read. But light on practical technique. Claudiu’s posts here have been incredibly helpful.

I have a feeling I should just keep reading Peter’s and then Richard’s journal and allow the dots to connect in the background. Opening up a whole new world for me. And I find I’m solidly buying into it (despite the stick I give Srinath) because it makes so much intuitive sense.

Then eventually and sometimes completely unexpectedly the fact is seen with utter confidence, this causes the belief to dissolve. There is always this incredible sense of discovery and freedom that comes with this. Because now there is genuine certainty whereas before there was the shuttling between belief and insecurity.

Sign me up. I’ll have to practice with a couple of beliefs. Probably do it in here for feedback. Despite Claudiu’s post, still struggling to grasp it.

[bub]

Don’t know how good this analogy is but it makes some sense to me. Think of it like a crime show on a TV screen. Adavita and certain forms of Buddhism, would zoom into the screen pixellating it until it was the blinking of the RGB lights on the LCD display and conclude it did not exist. Actualism would force you to come to terms with the fictional reality of the crime show and its real effects on you – eventually allowing you to pull the plug on TV and cancel the show. Whereas with normal life you might just watch the TV show uncritically thinking of it as a real thing.

And in actualism the illusion is only eliminated after self-immolation, when the feeling being is no longer present.

For advaita, it gets worse than that actually Claudiu can correct me, but I don’t think Richard would accord it the status of true enlightenment, which he would define as ego death without soul/feeling-being death. Actual freedom is the death of both ego and soul/feeling-being death.

Might not surprise you, but these sorts of questions come up a LOT. Richard and others have answered and re-answered them numerous times in some eye-watering detail. You can check it out if you have the patience for it, by just doing a Google site search on the AFT and looking for words like ‘advaita’ ‘enlightenment’ etc.

Its just that hundreds of thousands of people over the years have gotten to the post ego non dual realisation, and with Actualism it’s four basically free, and two actually free.

Fair play Actualism goes a step further and dissolves ego (even if I can throw in - we dont even know what awareness is, and we’re conflating this to the soul, and saying that AF targets dissolving this abstract entity. OR on the one hand saying feeling being gone, feelings gone, BUT oh wait, social identity still there but its okay because prison doors are open and i can just walk out). But like you say below, beyond my pay grade.

But at least Advaita dissolves the ego (dont like the term because you cant dissolve something that wasnt there) and with Actualism I’ll have to wait till full self immolation to even get to ego+soul/feeling being which appears to happen all at once. Bit of an all or nothing (plus social identity feelings ;)).

I guess what I’m saying is, let me do my non dual and ego dissolution work whilst I get my actualism learnings done along the way. AF Practice slotted in fairly quick too.

I did give myself a headache reading through a lot of this when I first came upon actualism, ultimately though I used the following MO. 1) Aim to find out what actualism/actual freedom is on its own terms without getting side-tracked or irritated by the claims. 2) Keep the claims that can’t be swallowed to the side for now e.g. for me it was that Richard was the first person to become actually free, this stuff about AF surpassing the wisdom of thousands of years, all the ego death and soul death stuff which was beyond my pay-grade to verify 3) Start practicing the actualism method, while simultaneously trying to understand it more and more.

1. Aiming to find out, but I’ll bring my doubts up which people have been gracious enough to clarify (including you).
2. Nothing that I’m finding hard to swallow. Trust in feeling being death through self immolation. Trust in PCE’s. Trust in chronic low grade PCE post self immolation.
3. I’ll start practising. Fucken PCE’s intimidate me.

Basically put doubts aside and learn and practice Bub sounds like sound advice!

It’s getting late here. I’m going to have to reply to the rest of your post later.

No need to. All been clarified.

Hoping @claudiu you can help out. You’re good at this stuff!
Indeed he is. Did an absolutely standard job clearing a lot of stuff for me.

[bub]

Essentially if you always start only from what you 100% actually know to be a fact, and you only follow chains of reasoning that are valid and only use those facts as their rational basis, then you will always be in fact-land and not in belief-land.

This has been very useful Claudiu - I’ll have to practice with a couple of beliefs so I know if I’m getting it right (or not!).

Basically start from first principles and work from there.

Sincerity is another key component here. You have to actually be scrupulous with what you know to be a fact and what you don’t. If you lie to yourself about it then you have no shot of dismantling beliefs.

This can be especially tricky with beliefs about yourself. “I always am responsible and take care of things.” Ok, is it really always? What about that time you did X Y or Z? etc…

lol

important point taken

Naivete

Experience Tends to Dismantle Beliefs

It’s OK to not “Know”

You will come to see that this is ok and you don’t actually lose anything by recognizing this. It’s already the case that you have no idea – now you just allow yourself to see it.

And in the meantime you can still keep doing the things you normally do on a provisional basis, until you figure out something better. So doesn’t impact your ability to function.

All this leads to a remarkable skill and ability to actually figure out anything you want to figure out, by methodically applying your mind to it.

I guess this is exactly what I need to do with my is there free will and control idea, even if there is no Me, at least whatever I am feels like it has control (I know I’m completely wrong here) and keep working with that provisionally until I get to the solidly felt factual state that whatever I am doesnt have control.

pay attention to the dissonant feeling afterwards, that you weren’t strictly sincere and didn’t strictly stick to the facts and look at what mayhem that caused… it will be your friend for avoiding another bout of it next time!

Not sure this has happened to me. Or at least havent consciously noted it. So I must just be more vigilant.

---

Not sure if this helps elucidate how to dismantle beliefs – let me know your thoughts!

The proof of the pudding will be in the dismantling - will give it a shot and see how it goes.

[bub]

I’ve been feeling like I’m on the right track, but absolutely and totally lost.

Questioning basic assumptions such as free will or control.

I heard Rupert Spira speak and him saying that believing in a Doer means free will is implicit, BUT dont do the normal advaita teaching of not truly believing in the lack of a doer, and then say no free will or control and feel powerless and paralysed as a result.

Claudiu’s words about accept a belief provisionally until you make progress with truly dismantling it was helpful.

So I thought let me accept I have free will and control.

I was neuroticising about not cooking and realised it was just overwhelming to cook 1 kilo each of spinach, fish, beef and mutton.

I threw them all out. No biggie. No idea what I was beating myself up so much over not cooking them.

Today I thought let me have at it again, and am now going to cook a kilo of spinach, beef, mutton and if I feel its going well, I’ll cook a kilo of fish as well. Fuck you, no free will and control.

BUT also to remember not to change my life around - life is perfect as it is, with people as they are.

Just step out in a normal grown up way to meal prep for the week, or check parking tickets have been paid. Dont reinvent the wheel(house).

XXXXXXX

Posting in Kub’s journal about my neuroticism, and irritablity being two of the biggest issues I have.

My irritability comes along once or twice in a month, you might have seen it targeted at Andrew at the end of my introductory post thread. I’m not counting irritability in my responses to Srinath because its how I communicate with him in a weird old friends male bonding manner.

The neuroticism is about wanting to get things right, not feeling good enough, feeling insecure, and I’ve noticed this mindset only comes when I’m using porn and beating off above a certain frequency.

You guys asked for honesty here, and here it is.

So if I could distill all my troubles into as compact a box as I can…

It’s stepping into avoidance (my recent no free will and control story, wu wei previously, or ejaculation killing my drive, or too much emotional discomfort, or postponing things for later) and background stress adding up because of that, this spilling out into a self critical neurotic self flagellation - a fixing, wanting, desiring, get things right change this set of conditions of my life to a more preferred set of conditions.
Doing 90 things right, but being overly self critical over the 10 things I didnt get right.

And this is what made me think gets in the way of happiness, and feeling good, and so I posted recently about ruthlessly addressing these. And Claudiu very sensibly pointed out the pitfalls of my approach i.e. neurotic fixing wanting to change one perfect set of conditions for another.

I guess I’d like to find the balance between the normal adult responsible way of solving issues vs it turning into a neurotic, continually fixing search.

The message that’s come to my mind repeatedly over the years has been do some meditation to rein in the monkey mind, uplevel mood and focus; exercise for the body; and 1 or at the most 2 high priority jobs a day (pretty much 100% of my work stuff gets done on time (because I see theres just no choice there), its just personal stuff I avoid).

Meditation makes me feel goooood. 20 minutes a day to start with.
Exercise makes me feel goooood. 1 hour 3-4 times a week.
Both of the above make me neuroticise a lot less, and deal with things in a matrix slow motion mode.
1-2 jobs high priority personal jobs a day. Avoidance of backlog is the single biggest stressor.

Stop me if I’m getting something wrong here.
I feel that’s pretty much bare minimum. With maximum ROI. Tim Ferris’ minimum (super) effective dose.

All three are routes to feel fucken fantastic, and enjoy and appreciate this present moment of being alive, and they are done at fixed times during the day or week, so the habit is set and I dont have to repeatedly get pulled out of the present moment.

Claudiu, and Andrew will reply to your most recent posts once I’ve cooked my spinach, beef and mutton!
And also a set of beliefs that are hampering me that I would like to look into dismantling.

[bub]

Basically from what I understand, Advaita is where you ‘see’ that that which you experience as ‘ego’ is ‘false’. But ‘ego’ remains (i.e. those things that were called ‘ego’ before still happen), it’s just ‘seen’ as ‘false’.

This is a paltry imitation of Full Enlightenment which is where the ‘ego’ itself disappears entirely, such that there is only Soul (i.e. the Absolute).

Richard experienced the Full Enlightenment so his writings about Enlightenment are referring to this.

This is where I’m looking to get - that felt and known sense of no ego, demonstrably evidenced as a felt loss of ‘centre’.

With ‘ego’ and ‘soul’ still remaining - or with just ‘soul’ remaining in Full Enlightenment - the illusion is still being experienced and felt to be existing. It doesn’t matter if you don’t think the illusion is real – if it’s still happening, it’s still happening.

For a simple way to put it: If you feel angry you can pretend you’re not angry, but that doesn’t make you not angry…

The beginnings of Bub actualling challenging the good Claudiu…

With enlightenment, it feels like there are steps, impersonality i.e. losing the felt sense of self, non duality and finally emptiness.

With AF, it feels like the steps come all at once at the end with self immolation i.e. ego death, soul death. Along the way EEs, PCE’s, belief dismantling (i.e. seeing through delusions) keep us entertained but also in a seeking energy with a chronic dissatisfaction underneath it all thats not addressed because we’re enjoying and appreciating the present moment.

If there’s no felt centre, I can still get feelings (I’m not sure how the soul or awareness has a range of feelings when advaita says just one feeling, but I’m playing along that getting rid of soul gets rid of feeling being despite social identity feelings still cropping up) and these could be from soul or social idenity, but I’m okay. My goal is to just lose centre. Convincingly. If I still have feelings after, I can deal with it.

Apart from my occasional neuroticism, when i say I have a problem free life, its doesnt feel like lying to myself - it’s just getting 100% of my work jobs done, and addressing issues in my personal life as and when they crop up. With doing bare minimum and having systems in place for the chop wood and carry water parts of life like meal prep, laundry, house cleaning etc.

What I’m saying is, I dont have the revulsion towards negative feelings a lot of people on the spiritual path have. Loss of centre, and that would feel like job done. Famous last words and probably cue more seeking i.e. EE’s, PCE’s and self immolation ahoy!

but seriously, I’m hoping to be content with loss of centre. I know people here will go, but but, PCE’s kingdom of heaven versus the ugly business of human feelings.

Loss of centre seems like a decent goal, just like 15% bodyfat is more than enough, fuck the six pack.

To conclude the ‘ego’ is ‘false’ but still be experiencing it, and conclude that this is all there is to be done about this human condition, is what is invalid. There is much more that can be done.

Dont feel I need the much more for now - then what the fuck am I doing on an AF forum you might ask - AF makes a whole lot of sense to me, and has already been supremely valuable to me across the board.

Basically the real value of these convos is for you to allow yourself to have a PCE, at which point you take it from there, unravelling pure intent from that PCE like a golden [^1] clew [^2] [^4], and following that golden clew as a lodestone or guiding light.

Aargh, PCE’s intimidate me man. I’m sure I’ve had a ton of PCE’s before, like most of the population and it’s not just limited to AF peeps. But I’m not sure I will have them now - feels like I’ve made it too big in my head.

I’ll read up about PCE’s on here, speak to Srinath, and try them.

I’ve been trying to get into them at home, or when out, but not making much progress

Hmmm think of it more like ‘beer’ or ‘soul’ is who you feel yourself to be at the very core of yourself. It is ‘you’ at ‘your’ essence. Everything else ‘you’ are – be it ‘ego’ or ‘feelings’ or ‘doer’ – is constructed out of this raw material and shaped via various feelings, moods, emotions, passions, etc.

When normally going about it ‘you’ experience ‘yourself’ as the ‘doer’ of things, the little man in the center of ‘your’ head, receiving input through ‘your’ eyes and ‘your’ ears, commanding ‘your’ arms and legs to move this way and that, directing ‘your’ thoughts, etc. ‘You’ are this controlling entity in ‘your’ head.

But really this ‘you’ is just the tip of the iceberg:

Underlying this ‘you’ is the vastness of the ‘soul’ or ‘beer’ which is who ‘you’ are at ‘your’ core. Much like the iceberg, the ‘doer’ isn’t actually separate from the ‘beer’ – one is made from the other. It only is apparently separate (like the water-line in the image above). But really it’s all the same substance.

However it feels like you aren’t – the controller ‘doer’ feels like ‘he’ possesses feelings or that feelings happen to him, without recognizing that ‘he’ is those feelings.

Seeing that you are all at once the whole iceberg is one of the keys to success with actualism. This is essential to be able to be sincere.

In an EE you basically are allowing yourself to be this whole iceberg, and your experience of yourself now is as of being this whole iceberg instead of just the tip of it. I don’t experience it like ‘ego’ vanishing per se (in the way all of ‘me’ vanishes in a PCE), more like ‘ego’ takes a back-seat. It’s like ‘I’ take a back-seat but then as soon as ‘I’ do ‘I’ now experience myself as this all of ‘me’ that is there already, so the sense of who ‘I’ am shifts. But it’s almost imperceptible at first which is really funny.

Thanks - fascinating and very practically useful. Filled in a fair few blanks with AF for me.

It’s hard to ‘get rid of this’ you because it is you . ‘You’ can’t really get rid of ‘yourself’. You have to acknowledge your felt-to-be-real existence and then allow yourself (as that illusion) to take the back-seat.

Still looking to get to loss of centre and felt/known convincing loss of ego self as short to medium term goal.

But my experience – and report from Daniel Ingram who said he went all the way as far as this regard goes – is, with how I’d put it in actualist terms, that ‘I’ was still the ‘doer’, still present as ‘ego’, I just experienced myself in an dissociated way as “not really being that ego” because “there is not really a ‘me’”. So I was the cloud floating above the iceberg instead haha.

That a real fucken dick softener.

If even the great Daniel Ingram didnt feel the loss of centre, and still felt like ‘doer’ presenting as 'ego, then is this loss of centre just an occasional realisation and not a felt constant one? Aargh.

It’s like when I’m angry, Advaita would be “I’m not really angry even though angry feelings keep happening and even though these angry feelings are a “thought/felt reality with tremendous power””, while with actualism it would be “I actually am angry; let me see the reasons why…” and then once you see why, you’re actually not angry anymore, then you say “I’m not angry” and the anger is actually gone.

AF sounds like the more sensible path whilst the advaita way here seems like a spiritual bypassing.

Advaita will get you to Advaita’s end goal, but this is different than the end goal of actualism. It’s up to you to decide which you want for yourself.

Which you want… is up to you

Convincing loss of doer and felt sense of center.

The ‘present moment’ that you are ‘stepping into’ is not the “this moment” of actualism. The ‘present moment’ you refer to is just another illusion. A PCE will show you what the “this moment” of actualism refers to.

Okay, another huge clarification that I got way way wrong.

Really what the message is saying is having a fucken PCE bub, lets talk more after that - there is much magic to be had.

Cheers hope that helps!
Claudiu

Helps tremendously. Indebted for having your input.

[Kub933]

@bub Do you remember any PCEs or any potential candidate experiences from the past?

Sometimes it is that sense of ‘I know there is more to life than this, it’s not supposed to be as it is’ which is a long lost memory of a PCE.

It can be fun to try pinpoint a memory of an experience where life was simply perfect beyond any ‘human’ understanding, complete beyond description.

This is why the AF peeps will always go - ‘nah but a PCE is better’

[Kub933]

I remember reading Richard’s journal and pondering on why he was ready to abandon full blown enlightenment for actual freedom.

It seemed weird because in enlightenment was everything that the self wants - immortality, bliss, power, authority, love, worship etc. It seems to fulfil ‘my’ deepest desires.

And yet Richard was pushing for a condition that would abolish all of those things, in fact it would abolish ‘him’. Why on earth would he do that?

I understand the reason now and it is intrinsic to the difference between the real and the actual. This is that thing which has to be experienced directly because the magnitude of it is not properly grasped otherwise.

There is a jump which happens when ‘I’ go into abeyance, because along with ‘me’ so too goes the ‘real world’. Now all of a sudden there is the direct experience of the factuality of things.

I guess a metaphor would be spending one’s entire life in a coma living a dreamed up existence. Then all of a sudden waking up and for the first time in one’s life taking a stroll through the local park and actually smelling the freshly cut grass, actually feeling the rays of sunshine warming up the skin, the sounds of people all around, feeling like a big baby going by in the world of people things and events, experiencing everything so naked of any psychic interference.

This experience is in stark contrast to the dream world of projections which one would have spent their entire life in. Enlightenment, no matter how glorious is still situated in the world of projections, therefore actual freedom/PCE always trumps.

It brings a satisfaction that is unparalleled and once locked onto it just cannot be denied.

[bub]

@bub Do you remember any PCEs or any potential candidate experiences from the past?

I remember Richard or Peter saying that most people would have had PCE’s in their lives.

So it’s not something that only the AF peeps have access to.

I’ve had tons of drugs, crazy sexual experiences, spectacularly beautiful times with friends, mad times like being flogged, pierced with hundreds of needles, placed in a cage and electrocuted. Also a ton of everyday beautiful experiences - where Ive just sat crying at how magical life is. Sometimes continously shaking with sobs with how amazing life was.

This is why the AF peeps will always go - ‘nah but a PCE is better’

Fair play. I guess I got to give it a good shot.

I remember reading Richard’s journal and pondering on why he was ready to abandon full blown enlightenment for actual freedom.

It seemed weird because in enlightenment was everything that the self wants - immortality, bliss, power, authority, love, worship etc. It seems to fulfil ‘my’ deepest desires.

Dont care for any of that. Just want to accept the Isness of things, the world as it is, people as they are, the minimal amount of suffering in my life, and the end of seeking. At most, fewer of the rare neurotic phases and more tranquilo times.

The end of seeking. That’s where I’d like to be.

And I dont even want full blown enlightenment, just that first solid step of KNOWING and FEELING there is no egoic self and the subsequent loss of centre.

There’s a pretty good chance I’ll get there in the next couple of months. With self immolation, I’ll probably be chasing it for years. Even Srinath is still researching enlightenment like all get out, thinking there are further boundaries to be crossed.

I guess a metaphor would be spending one’s entire life in a coma living a dreamed up existence. Then all of a sudden waking up and for the first time in one’s life taking a stroll through the local park and actually smelling the freshly cut grass, actually feeling the rays of sunshine warming up the skin, the sounds of people all around, feeling like a big baby going by in the world of people things and events, experiencing everything so naked of any psychic interference.

Enjoyed reading this metaphor/analogy.

This experience is in stark contrast to the dream world of projections which one would have spent their entire life in. Enlightenment, no matter how glorious is still situated in the world of projections, therefore actual freedom/PCE always trumps.

It brings a satisfaction that is unparalleled and once locked onto it just cannot be denied.

I’ve had people on here tell me, listen bub, the end of suffering and feeling good i.e. PCE level good all the fucken time! Why wouldnt anyone sign up for this!

I went to Burning Man (with Srinath) - had a great time, but went once, and wouldnt go there again.

I have a drink, or a joint, I’ll feel great. But havent had either in years.

Its like a (super high maintainence) hot girl everyone else wants to fuck, and are surprised why I dont want to put the work in. Who I’ll keep chasing for yonks.

But I just want the plain jane who takes it up the bum every so often.

I’m not like the Buddha who fucken ran from everything, and wanted to even run away from the repeated cycles of birth and death, just wanting to get the fuck away from it all.

I’ve seen Srinath and Geoffrey fucken hate their feeing being selves and with every waking thought being how they’d like to get rid of it. Sure, maybe it is well worth it. But it just doesnt give me wood. Sure things might change. But for now, its just the end of seeking, loss of center and I’m a supremely happy occasionally transiently suffering bunny.

But anyways, the lesson coming through repeatedly is - fucken give the PCE’s a shot, champ and then we can talk.

[Srinath]

Bubby, a couple of things…

Bit of a technicality here. Theres 10 people who are actually free (far as I remember), out of which 2 people are fully free. The rest are basically free. Both are actually free. Yeah, might not seem a lot but the cohort of actualists is tiny. While self-immolation might seem like a distant lofty goal, its ultimately pretty straightforward and easy – it happens in an instant. And until then you have an idea of what self-immolation would be like via a PCE. Plus in between PCEs and EEs you are going on quite a cracking, super-fascinating journey that has you becoming happier and world becoming more magical and alive. That’s my little plug

Re: enlightenment, my interest in it is more academic. I was working on it quite a bit a few months ago when I was trying to write our wiki on it, but it was a lot of work and I’ve had to set it aside. Not super unimportant, thought I’d clarify though…

You seem to have a lot of paradigmatic balls up in the air e.g. advaita, wu wei, personal growth, actualism etc. I know this sort of thing is pretty commonplace in modern spiritual practice and maybe how you tend to like to do things, but I just think actualism tends to work best as a solo practice. And it’s tricky even then. Might be good to consider putting actualism on the back-burner until you’ve explored advaita throughly. It will be hard to have PCE’s if you’re being pulled in all these different directions. Also with the kind of mix you’re doing there wouldn’t be anyone on here who could guide or advise you because of the high noise:signal ratio.

[bub]

Bit of a technicality here. Theres 10 people who are actually free (far as I remember), out of which 2 people are fully free. The rest are basically free. Both are actually free. Yeah, might not seem a lot but the cohort of actualists is tiny

Fair play.

. While self-immolation might seem like a distant lofty goal, its ultimately pretty straightforward and easy – it happens in an instant.

Once we defeat that boss or complete a level, it seems easy and we can do it repeatedly.

But like they say, there’s no such thing as an overnight success. It was those decades of cumulative work that added up.

Also brings my point up that ego and awareness loss both happen late down the line with self immolation.

And until then you have an idea of what self-immolation would be like via a PCE. Plus in between PCEs and EEs you are going on quite a cracking, super-fascinating journey that has you becoming happier and world becoming more magical and alive. That’s my little plug

You’ve always seen me as living in a wildly magical world! And alive responding to my very thoughts, desires, beliefs and even healing needs.

But sure, I can see PCE life as definitely being more magical and alive.

Re: enlightenment, my interest in it is more academic. I was working on it quite a bit a few months ago when I was trying to write our wiki on it, but it was a lot of work and I’ve had to set it aside. Not super unimportant, thought I’d clarify though…

Still seeing that seeking (and even contracted) energy - unless its my projections.

Maybe the AF guys, like the solid enlightenment seekings guys, and the buddha have been miserable fuggers (like you used to be ‘ray of sunshine’). I’ve felt pretty good life of the party as a baseline despite whatever the fuck was happening in my life. You’ve seen how people check in on me even if I zone out for a couple of minutes at a party.

I was really surprised how you felt so thrilled at hitting a jhana early on in your practice, and thought the same when you had your first PCE looking at bathroom tiles if I remember correctly.

So yeah, feeling good and escaping suffering like all get out isnt a priority - I remember having a discussion with your years ago - I’d feel terrible if feelling happy was a priority, its doing the right things that happiness is a happy side effect.

Its losing that contracted energy, just being happy with people as they are, and the world as it is.

Dont even mind living with the occasional neurotic phase.

Just want to see the reality of things i.e. losing that felt sense of self and centre.

You seem to have a lot of paradigmatic balls up in the air e.g. advaita, wu wei, personal growth, actualism etc. I know this sort of thing is pretty commonplace in modern spiritual practice and maybe how you tend to like to do things, but I just think actualism tends to work best as a solo practice. And it’s tricky even then. Might be good to consider puttotheing actualism on the back-burner until you’ve explored advaita throughly. It will be hard to have PCE’s if you’re being pulled in all these different directions. Also with the kind of mix you’re doing there wouldn’t be anyone on here who could guide or advise you because of the high noise:signal ratio.

Might help considering what stance you take in the future with other would be actualists.

On the one hand, the simpleactualism site says come to the forum, we’re a nice bunch (and you all are, including Andrew) and on the other hand it’s no AF for you, not even PCE’s until you drop everything else.

But fair play, you’ve always given me solid solid advice and sometimes I’ve taken years to listen to some of it, but once I did, they’ve always been game changers. But hey, better late than never.

My plan with AF was to read Peter’s and Richards books, read everything on the simpleactualism website, and get into PCE’s. And journal lessons and doubts on here. But will put them all aside.

So, sir, yes, sir. I’ll be away from the forum and might come back in a few months if I’m ready to give PCE’s a go AND have emptied my cup (famous last words!).

[henryyyyyyyyyy]

@bub

Just want to see the reality of things i.e. losing that felt sense of self and centre.

[son_of_bob]

Hi @bub,

Welcome, I haven’t had a chance to communicate yet, I have been so behind on messages only just read your posts now. Thanks for sharing so openly your experiences.

I am a bit of an outlier here in that I am not from a spiritual background, never had any interest in religion or spirituality other than an intellectual curiousity to try and understand those around me and why they believe these things that I don’t. I guess I always treated spirituality with incredulity if I am honest. I was raised by one parent who was an atheist and another who believed in God but without organised religion. I was given complete freedom to have my own beliefs.

@bub

You’ve always seen me as living in a wildly magical world! And alive responding to my very thoughts, desires, beliefs and even healing needs.

I too had lived an incredible magical world of happiness and joy from loving nature, imagination and learning as well as exploring sexuality and desires without shame. I was happy in my life when my friend introduced me to AF and I had absolutely zero interest in what was offered and totally rejected it, I totally misunderstood it to be honest. I spent 2 years of my life dedicated towards proving AF wrong/false and bullshit or spirituality in a new guise or anything I could to tarnish it. I don’t think I have ever dedicated so much time in my life against something before lol. If anything, I found more of my questions, experiences and realisations pushed me in a direction comparable with what the articles alluded too.

I thought this happiness from creativity and learning to be the ultimate goal in the universe, that I had realised the most important aspect of our reality which eluded the majority of humans, not only that but I was destined to become a successful writer or programmer or scientist, or someone that would change the world and be so special. In the end it turned out to be a conditional form of happiness and under extreme circumstances it has failed to deliver the goods. If in some future time, you may find your own source of joy from desires and beliefs to be conditional too and no longer able to provide you with the satisfaction or protection they once did. If such a thing happens I hope you are able to remember with an open mind there might be an alternative to explore.

I never had a PCE in my life when introduced to AF. I had no recollection of such an experience. The very close friend that introduced me to AF swore to such an experience and I didn’t doubt his sincerity in that regard. I eventually tried the method with sincerity and experienced incremental success and eventually experienced a PCE. My progress took a turn for the worse after traumatic experiences, though I have found myself in a better place again and growing confidence from increased states of felicity and EE.

Can you elaborate on your beliefs and healing needs? I am curious as to what you mean by this.

I have read about advaita but I don’t think I really get it. What is the end goal? What are the beliefs around it? Do you believe there is a soul? By that, I mean some part of you that is infinite and eternal. Do you believe in a God/Divine energy then?

Personally, at the time of being introduced to AF I had realised that belief was arbitrary, I could believe anything and something about it to me felt akin to the nature of imagination, where I often describe belief as unconscious imagination. What I didn’t realise was how many beliefs I had regarding my sense of self, personal expectations and neuroses.

@bub

Still seeing that seeking (and even contracted) energy - unless its my projections.

I have no idea what this means could you elaborate please.

[bub]

Just had a fascinating chat with Srinath as I wanted to hear about his recent experiences meeting Richard and Vineeto.

I’ve been lurking on the forum, and still get email updates, and that’s how I heard about Srinath’s visit.

I told Srinath that I had been a bit annoyed with him for what I felt was kicking me off this forum, and my mind had built up a story about him thinking I was being disruptive here by bringing in my non duality views, but he said that he was just being helpful as he (and a lot of others on here) had seen people trying to do both AF and nonduality and fail.

I explained that this wasn’t my journey, and I wasn’t so much interested in any final frontier (not sure there is, as people seem to keep searching and seeking) but rather the end of seeking.

I went on to say that I found my experiences on the forum phenomenally useful (which he appeared surprised about) and that some insights like Claudiu saying accept the world as it is, and people as they are that became core concepts I’ve grown to live with.

I had an ayahuasca experience a couple of months ago, and asked Madre Aya about the self and ego, that it felt like I was a real person despite all information to the contrary, and about the nature of free will and control because it felt like I had a tremendous degree of free will and control being able to slot in my bodyweight and bodyfat almost anywhere I wanted, or change situations in my life that I wanted to change.

She said where is this Bub, show him to me and I said I honestly couldn’t and she said there’s your answer.

As regards free will and control, the times I felt there is no free will and control, I’ve felt powerless and things have drifted in my life, whereas when I assume control, things just get done.

She said past, present and future have already been written out, and this is just physics. The universe can’t create the past, and wait with the rest of us jokers to see what happens. There is no time, and every thought, action, even incident in my life has already been written out and has already happened.

This gave me a great degree of solace, as there’s been a significant degree of frustration with not doing things I had signed up to do. With this insight, it’s like whatever I was not able to do had been written out at the beginning of time.

She went on to say, BUT act as if you have free will because you’ll have to have the thoughts that drive actions towards outcomes, BUT also realise that you have no free will because everything has already been written out.

Something else that gave me a great degree of peace was realising the only stress I put on myself is when I put pressure on myself to do EVEN more than I’m already doing. And I realised that I’m doing a fair bit, and to just be content with that. The rest will fall into place as it has been written out.

So now, I’m at a point where there is no doer, or thinker, and I’m like an actor in a movie or book that has already been written out. The characters in a completed book or movie can’t change anything, so how can I?

The ayahuasca spirit said, instead of being frustrated, angry or resentful, fill yourself with an appreciation of the infinite magic of the universe and how wonderfully it’s been put together and unfolds.

Steve Jobs once said you can’t see the dots connect looking at the present moment, or looking forward, but looking back you can see all the dots connect that got us to where we are.

So I now feel like I’m locked into the most beautiful movie in the world, that’s perfectly unfolding, and I have no free will or control (but where I assume a (ultimately false) degree of free will), where there isn’t resistance to what’s happening and I’m accepting the world as it is, and people as they are.

If I was or am frustrated with people, or circumstances, I realise that there is no person inside them to be frustrated with. They are other actors in a movie that’s been written out, so is the world and everything that happens to everyone around me - everything has been written out.

Does this mean I stop looking for things to do? Absolutely not. But the energy, mindset and attitude isn’t from a place of seeking i.e. lack, resistance, not accepting the present moment, the world or people as they are or me as I am, but from a place of adventurous exploration. Let’s throw the dice and see where it falls and clap with appreciative joy and bliss at the magic of it all.

As regards the sense of adventure and exploration, there’s a lot of good stuff happening in my life with a fair few long awaited plans falling into place.

Sure I feel a bit overwhelmed with lifestyle changes ie moving house and back into London and the logistics around this of moving house, two motorcycles and a car, house search, viewings, finding a housemate, now living out of a suitcase in airbnbs, housing deposits, and a super busy job where I have twice the maximum workload I’m supposed to have, and a workplace that seems to be a trainwreck with staff leaving en masse.

BUT whereas the old me would stress out and try to get it all done, with this mindset of non resistance and no pressure, it’s all falling into place effortlessly. I almost dont have to think of it and things get done.

So I guess this is what I’ve wanted all along, that feeling of joy and acceptance of the present moment, and watching magically unfold in the absolute best way possible. The end of seeking. Sure, someone here is going to say, BUT PCE’s, dont you think it’s worth a shot? And sure, I’ll keep exploring, but not at or with the expense of resistance, contraction, lack or desperately wanting change.

It will all unfold in the most perfect way possible, and all I have to do is appreciate and enjoy this moment of being alive.

[claudiu]

@bub

She said where is this Bub, show him to me and I said I honestly couldn’t and she said there’s your answer.

Haha well that’s a good answer.

But you leave out half the equation. You see there is no Bub as in self or ego - but there is ‘Bub’ as Self / soul that you still believe is real. These are the Bubs that are also illusory and/or delusions born of that illusion:

• Madre Aya. Your whole experience was you taking to yourself, man! Specifically it was the little you / Bub as ego, talking to the big you / Bub as Soul, manifested as an external entity (presumable personifying/embodying the spiritual dimension or access of Ayahuasca). But this external entity is also ‘you’.
  It might help if you think of it as Madre Aya is a psychic entity, ie one living in the psyche, namely the human psyche. Ultimately this is what ‘you’ are, the ‘you’ that goes away in a PCE is this psyche. So any psychic entity , be it Madre Aya or an angel or a demon or a god or God or the ground of being out of which gods arise — is also ‘you’.
  None of it is actual. It is all an illusion and further a delusion born of this illusion.
• The ”universe” which has a “past, present and future” that “have already been written out” — this is also delusory born of this illusion. It is also ‘you’. It isn’t actual. You are believing in something that has no actual existence or substance and manifesting an experience of it that makes it appear that it actually exists. But it doesn’t.
  How do I know it doesn’t exist? The same way you can know - because it all disappears in a PCE. There you see that the past no longer exists and the future doesn’t yet exist (hence can’t possibly be already written out). Only this moment exists. All else is an illusion or a delusion.
• The universe in which there is ”no time” is also a delusion. Time does exist , and is eternally still. Time is the arena in which things happen. Without time nothing would exist. But things do exist - hence time exists. Again, refer to the PCE.
  As such it can’t be that ”every thought, action, even incident in my life has already been written out and has already happened” because only now exists. The future hasn’t happened yet.

As such the rest of your post doesn’t follow, ie is all an invalid chain of thought and reasoning based on invalid premises and the conclusions and advice derived therefrom — despite it giving you ”solace” and a ” feeling of joy and acceptance” of what you call the ”present moment” (which is not the “this moment” that actually exists) — have no factual basis whatsoever and are therefore invalid.

Of course what you choose to do with this information is entirely up to you - including ignoring it or disregarding it and being satisfied with what you’ve found! But let it be known that none of it is factual or actual.

It all depends on what you’re really looking for, basically.

As a final thought: you say ” It will all unfold in the most perfect way possible […]”. Yet in actuality there are no guarantees whatsoever that everything will work out. The millions that have died in the past due to wars, murders, and suicide, and millions more affected by domestic abuse, child abuse, rapes, etc., are a testament to that. Unless you mean to say that what happened to them was ”the most perfect way” possible it could have gone?

Presuming you don’t mean that - there are no guarantees, but, you do have a choice in what you do, the path you choose, that you can go on in the best way you can.

It is up to you!

Cheers,
Claudiu

[bub]

Let me start by saying how much I appreciated your answers on the forum, Claudiu.

You were by far the most helpful poster, and changed a lot of my core views and beliefs.

But you leave out half the equation. You see there is no Bub as in self or ego - but there is ‘Bub’ as Self / soul that you still believe is real. These are the Bubs that are also illusory and/or delusions born of that illusion:

I’m not too fussed about releasing Bub, or going on a whole enlightenment or BF/AF journey.

I need to explain.

First off, there is no Bub even in soul, according to the non dualists, but I don’t care very much about what they say anymore as I’ve jetissoned the search for enlightenment.

I can say AF is the only philosophy that says there is even a bub in soul, and the non dualists would say boundless awareness which they say is our true nature doesnt have a Bub.

But why is this important to me anymore? I really don’t care.

I’ll have feelings, most good, some bad, and thats okay. Sometimes I show up as bliss, sometimes I show up as irritability.

Why go on a search to get rid of Bub, get rid of feelings, even if its a lofty goal of replacing it with a constant PCE like experience.

My goal is different. It’s non resistance to whatever comes up.

The end of seeking and non resistance seems more worthwhile to me than an endless search.

Srinath got to BF, looking frantically for AF, feelings still come up and it’s social identity fragments as the reason for them coming up now.

Non resistance and going with the flow is far more important to me than a frantic chase for changing what is.

• Madre Aya. Your whole experience was you taking to yourself, man! Specifically it was the little you / Bub as ego, talking to the big you / Bub as Soul, manifested as an external entity (presumable personifying/embodying the spiritual dimension or access of Ayahuasca). But this external entity is also ‘you’.
  It might help if you think of it as Madre Aya is a psychic entity, ie one living in the psyche, namely the human psyche. Ultimately this is what ‘you’ are, the ‘you’ that goes away in a PCE is this psyche. So any psychic entity , be it Madre Aya or an angel or a demon or a god or God or the ground of being out of which gods arise — is also ‘you’.
  None of it is actual. It is all an illusion and further a delusion born of this illusion.

Of course, it’s me. Because everything is me. Or it might just be my thoughts. In fact, there’s very little difference between me speaking to Hitler now, or Madre Aya apart from the raw feeling that this is someone ‘else’ i.e. not ‘me’, I’m speaking to.

But whether she is a discanate entity inside my head, or just my thought, either which way, doesn’t matter in the grand scheme of things.

• The ”universe” which has a “past, present and future” that “have already been written out” — this is also delusory born of this illusion. It is also ‘you’. It isn’t actual. You are believing in something that has no actual existence or substance and manifesting an experience of it that makes it appear that it actually exists. But it doesn’t.
  How do I know it doesn’t exist? The same way you can know - because it all disappears in a PCE. There you see that the past no longer exists and the future doesn’t yet exist (hence can’t possibly be already written out). Only this moment exists. All else is an illusion or a delusion.
• The universe in which there is ”no time” is also a delusion. Time does exist , and is eternally still. Time is the arena in which things happen. Without time nothing would exist. But things do exist - hence time exists. Again, refer to the PCE.
  As such it can’t be that ”every thought, action, even incident in my life has already been written out and has already happened” because only now exists. The future hasn’t happened yet.

Current physics would back me on this. That past, present and future are already happening and there is no space or time. And space/time can only be inferred and not demonstrated.

You’re saying time doesnt exist because it disappears in a PCE, but exists because things exist.

At this point in time, the most practically useful idea for me (whether it’s accurate or not, I will never ever know) is everything has been written out, dont sweat it.

As such the rest of your post doesn’t follow, ie is all an invalid chain of thought and reasoning based on invalid premises and the conclusions and advice derived therefrom — despite it giving you ”solace” and a ” feeling of joy and acceptance” of what you call the ”present moment” (which is not the “this moment” that actually exists) — have no factual basis whatsoever and are therefore invalid.

Of course what you choose to do with this information is entirely up to you - including ignoring it or disregarding it and being satisfied with what you’ve found! But let it be known that none of it is factual or actual.

It all depends on what you’re really looking for, basically.

I’m looking for a mindset that helps me towards non resistance.

I could say AF and BF are invalid because they go in the way of thousands of years of spiritual thinking. BUT it JUST WORKS for a lot of people and that’s more than enough for me.

God knows there are very few philosophies that JUST WORK.

Truth or not, we will never know. BF releases ego self. AF releases awareness self. When thousands of years of spirituality would say there is no self in awareness, and that soul and awareness are both completely different things even whilst AF would seem to put them both together.

As a final thought: you say ” It will all unfold in the most perfect way possible […]”. Yet in actuality there are no guarantees whatsoever that everything will work out. The millions that have died in the past due to wars, murders, and suicide, and millions more affected by domestic abuse, child abuse, rapes, etc., are a testament to that. Unless you mean to say that what happened to them was ”the most perfect way” possible it could have gone?

I’ve got a convuluted view that the people who died signed up for it before they were born so they could learn lessons. Maybe it’s all working towards some goal. Like my childhood abuse moved me to work in the healing profession. Like I’m supremely pleased for all the ‘negative’ things that have happened to me and would be hard pressed to change a single one of them if I could. The other path I took because of them was much more beautiful.

Presuming you don’t mean that - there are no guarantees, but, you do have a choice in what you do, the path you choose, that you can go on in the best way you can.

Current neurosicence says there is no free will, so have generations of philosphers and spiritualists.

But we continue to believe in it, and I for one, act as if I do have free will.

Cheers,
Claudiu

Cheers Claudiu. It’s heartening that you take the time and I’m sometimes sorry like now that I disagree with what you say.

But I’m sure you’d agree that every single one of my beliefs is false, and invalid. There are no absolutes.

We’re just dumb animals that believe everything, when maybe the only truth is that there are no truths. And maybe even that’s a lie.

And for me, I just adopt a mindset or set of ultimately false beliefs that get me to a sense of non resistance and peace.

Just to explain why I am back on the AF website - I’ve dumped the non dual enlightenment search, but also dumped the BF/AF search. What I am here for is good people, interesting conversations and exploring AF in a deeper way.

Because I absolutely love the insights that keep coming - happy and harmless, how am I appreciating and enjoying this moment of being alive, PCE’s, belief dismantling, etc etc. And these are the places I would like to go versus some final frontier that keeps shifting like goalposts.

Just being a happy, harmless, non resistant, peaceful, joyful decent human being. Who’s able to take lifes ups and downs with equanimity, and change from a sense of exploration and adventure rather than lack or seeking.

[claudiu]

@bub

Of course, it’s me. Because everything is me.

I can assure you, I am not you

Or to put it another way – if I were you , then why are you talking to yourself?

Cheers,
Claudiu

[bub]

There is no you, there is no me.

It’s one big whole playing out the dance of life

[claudiu]

@bub

Of course, it’s me. Because everything is me.

@bub

There is no you, there is no me.

This is evidently contradictory — if there is no “you” then nothing can be “you” and it can’t be that “everything is you”.

Therefore one or the other or both of these must be false:

1. “everything is me”
2. “there is no me”

However it appears you’ve given up on facts entirely as you indicate in your post:

@bub

At this point in time, the most practically useful idea for me (whether it’s accurate or not, I will never ever know) is […]

@bub

Truth or not, we will never know.

@bub

But I’m sure you’d agree that every single one of my beliefs is false, and invalid. There are no absolutes.

@bub

We’re just dumb animals that believe everything, when maybe the only truth is that there are no truths. And maybe even that’s a lie.

@bub

And for me, I just adopt a mindset or set of ultimately false beliefs that get me to a sense of non resistance and peace.

As another evident contradiction you say you have ”dumped the BF/AF [basic freedom/actual freedom] search” yet part of the reason that you are here on this forum is ”exploring AF in a deeper way”. As in this context exploring is but a synonym for searching it has got me beat how you plan to … explore without exploring!

However after having given up on facts it is of course easy to live with such contradictions. But as the way out is via finding out what the facts are, then it leaves you in a bit of a pickle.

In any case as facts are vitally essential for any exploration into actuality and actual freedom as well as success with actualism, it seems indeed actualism is contraindicated in your case — having abandoned facts there’s really nowhere to go, no way to make progress, or to rectify any of the various misunderstandings you still have about actualism and actual freedom — some of which have already been discussed on this very thread!

If you really are intent on ”exploring AF in a deeper way” then I give you the same advice Richard gave to me in a similar situation: “Turn around 180 degrees from the direction you have been travelling thus far and come to your senses (both metaphorically and literally).” (source)

If that isn’t something you want to do then … I wish you the best in finding what you are looking for, but at this stage, actual freedom isn’t it.

Cheers,
Claudiu

[bub]

There’s no inconsistency at all from where I’m sitting.

You might think I’m an idiot who chooses whatever belief I can mock up to suit my fancy.

On the flip side, it’s a humility that I don’t know anything. The questions and answers I’m finding have eluded spiritual traditions, religions and philosophers for thousands of years, and will never have any clear answers probably ever.

There’s also the deep understanding that pretty much everything is a lie.

What I do do, is look for the best truths I can find with all the evidence I can get, looking as deeply as I practically can.

The ‘facts’ that I’ve come up with are consistent with the latest neuroscience, and the oldest spiritual traditions. That there is no free will, there is no self, this is all an illusion.

Similarly, they also say there is no self, and everything is one.

You might quote Richard, but this is a niche philosophy that flies in the face of current neuroscience, and the oldest spiritual traditions. I can respect your views and wouldn’t dream of disdaining or dismissing them. I would ask that you do the same for me, if it was important to me, but it isn’t. I’m more than happy for you to completely disagree (with the latest neuroscientific discoveries and the oldest spiritual traditions ;)).

Actual Freedom indeed isn’t for me, nor is Basic Freedom. What is for me is the enduring principles such as happy and harmless, appreciating and enjoying this moment of being alive, and Srinath’s insight about caring as a key part of the process.

Similarly, enlightenment isn’t for me, and what is for me is a philosophy that’s consistent with that process that also gives me a feeling of non resistance, and even solace and peace.

Enlightenment is a long search based on contraction, so is AF/BF which to me is based in resistance to what is and wanting change from feelings, to a constant PCE. It is indeed a worthy goal for many, but not my shtick. Might change if I see more people jumping over to BF/AF like Geoffrey’s success was an inspiration for Srinath.

For me, I’ll leave the enlightenment search to others, whilst I continue in my non resisting, accepting, peaceful, even blissful way as much as I can, and accept the downs with as much equanimity as I can.

And I’ll leave the BF/AF search to others, whilst I continue to live it’s core principles of happy and harmless, appreciating and enjoying this moment of being alive and genuine caring as best as I can. Which might be a lot more than other people on the forum might be doing. But it’s not a competition. I just want to do justice to it in my own way.

PCE’s might be a journey, but again, from a place of exploration. I saw Srinath overjoyed at hitting a jhana early in his practice, and I wondered what the fuss was about? I’ve had multiple close to PCE experiences, maybe a significant proportion on drugs. But I’ve don’t feel the need to feel that way again.

Ups and downs. I’m more than happy to live with them.

Most people on the search for enlightenment and AF/BF absolutely hate feelings and the feeling being. I’m more than happy to live with the feeling being for the rest of my life.

So yes, Actual Freedom or enlightenment definitely isn’t for me. But practically using their principles to become a better human to myself and more than that, others, definitely IS.