Thank you Edzd, yes it’s nice to be back and hobbling about for now 
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I have been having a pretty fun time finding out how ‘I’ tick, I forgot how fun this can be, to as Peter wrote “hoe into the meal” of investigating anything and everything which stands in the way of enjoying and appreciating life now. Because with each bit of ‘me’ seen for what it is there is always the solid knowing that my life has just got better, bit by bit at a time.
What I discovered today is just how fragile ‘my’ ‘peace’ is… This was actually an unexpected outcome of some other exploration. It is back again to those ‘good’ feelings, which so often fly under the radar. And yet being attentive to what is going on inside the clues eventually come together and the culprit is exposed .
What I see now is that ‘I’ have manufactured a ‘peace’ for ‘myself’, a conditional ‘peace’, a ‘peace’ that depends on the ‘good’ feelings being sustained, a self-centric ‘peace’. And this is where it all starts to unravel… Because this ‘peace’ is anything but that, how can something so fragile, so susceptible, so conditional ever be called peace? The other fascinating part of it is that this ‘peace’ inevitably triggers aggression in ‘me’ as ‘I’ need to protect this fragile construct. Also by the end of it all it has nothing else to turn to but to become a resentment at life not going to ‘my’ demands.
So to summarise, this ‘peace’ not only delivers anything but peace for myself, but furthermore it actively leads to conflict with others, this is where the scare quotes are certainly needed when talking about this construct haha.
And all of the above makes something very clear, that a genuine peace must be rooted in felicity and innocuity. The conditional and self-centric ‘good’ feelings can never deliver a peace, not for the individual and certainly not communally. This last part specifically is so blindingly obvious, how can such a self-centric modus operandi ever work on a community level!? Too many ‘selves’ all with their own demands, expectations etc, it is simply impossible that it could ever work.
The other fascinating part which this highlighted about ‘me’ in particular is in the word “mundane”. I have found in ‘myself’ not only a need to distinguish ‘myself’ as special but an active resistance to that which is mundane. Essentially it means that the pursuit of ‘my’ happiness via the ‘good’ feelings (not the actualism goal) is all about distinguishing and affirming ‘myself’ apart from others, self-aggrandising basically. But this MO it has the very same problems as the above, it could never ever deliver a lasting peace and happiness for everybody and at all times.
Life would be a vale of tears if perfection and purity was only to be found in that which is special, only granted to some, in exempt circumstances. So this resistance to that which is mundane is what locks ‘me’ away from allowing the actual perfection and purity which is here for everybody, and which has no conditions for it’s granting, rather it is simply here.
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So I woke up today experiencing this (to borrow Richard’s words) oh-so familiar flavour, this one of a kind magical-enchanted flavour. I don’t know if this flavour is what naivete is or if it is the flavour of pure intent, I guess it’s both really. It’s a flavour which is completely absent in reality, hence reality is dull, empty, static, meaningless etc. Whereas this flavour is like a missing component is added to the very fabric of life itself, where even when doing nothing life is experienced as a magical-enchanted escapade. And this flavour is not generated by ‘me’, it is not of ‘me’ but rather comes from the actual world. And tasting this flavour it leads to re-memorating other times when it was experienced, memories which were up to now forgotten. Like a trip to London with Sonya some time back where it was particularly present. This flavour it always has the effect of galvanising me into action because it is so delightful in this deeply meaningful way that I just have to find a way to allow it more. And that is the crux of it really, I have experienced this flavour many times, and each time it is just as fresh and delightful, but the question is how to live with it all the time? Why these constant reversions away from it, only to then re-discover it once more some time later. And then all that time in-between, without this flavour present is such a waste.
There is something which I can see, I could actually see it happen this morning, that this shadowy construct which is ‘me’ (as the ‘doer’?) has to fade in order to allow this flavour. They cannot both be operant at the same time!
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Hi Kuba,
This is a great description of naiveté infused with pure intent.
When I looked at your question at the end, I noticed something interesting. When you talk about naiveté you use the first-person pronoun but then when the doer takes command you describe it in the passive voice, as something happening to you as if you had no control over it, such as “these constant reversions away from it”, “this shadowy construct” like a mere skeleton banned into the cupboard. You put ‘it’ at arm’s length and futilely command it to go away (“has to fade”).
Remember the phrase “‘I’ am ‘my’ feelings and ‘my’ feelings are ‘me’”? It informs you that everything you are affectively experiencing is ‘you’. How can ‘you’ command ‘you’ to go away? As I said to João the other day –
Vineeto: Especially when you are looking at the feelings which prevent you from enjoying and appreciating this moment of being alive now, the phrase “‘I’ am ‘my’ feelings and ‘my’ feelings are ‘me’” is well worth remembering as it can inform you when you are keeping your feelings at arm’s length while attempting from a distance to unsuccessfully shuffle them around, or if you really take on board that you are your feelings from which experience you can then, quite easily, decide to be a more felicitous feeling (link).
From this non-dissociative experience, you can also decide to be naïve and and/or remain naïve. All you need to do to maintain this naiveté, is to be aware whenever the slightest dissociation sets in because of some unpleasant feeling, decline to push it away, and instead naïvely embrace it as some issue which still requires to be looked at. When you don’t push it away you can remain naïve, interested, fascinated, and be a friend to yourself without interruption.
Then allowing the flavour of pure intent happens of its own accord.
Cheers Vineeto
Hi Vineeto,
I have been looking at what you wrote and also I have had Geoffrey’s words on my mind - “When ‘I’ am whole feeling good is a choice”. Those words stuck in my mind because they summarise so well this very common pitfall for me. Which is basically to split ‘myself’ and then have 1 part try to shove around other parts.
I was thinking the past couple of days about how the actualism method is intended to be utilised sincerely ie with ‘me’ as a whole, and how crucial this is. Because the second that ‘I’ operate from that dissociative experience then ‘I’ am no longer aware that ‘I’ am ‘my’ feelings, and so how can ‘I’ possibly have a choice as to how ‘I’ experience this moment of being alive. From the dissociative experience ‘I’ can only try to shuffle around parts of ‘me’ and ultimately go round in circles.
It has been almost like a different paradigm altogether, to consider proceeding only as a whole, that any ‘motion’ which happens for ‘me’ is ‘me’ moving as a whole. Initially when I considered this it seemed like trying to work out a muscle I have never used, it seemed all buttons on ‘my’ dashboard entailed splitting up first.
But I have been putting this into practice and then today I was able to re-discover naiveté again. But this time I can indeed see that it is something that ‘I’ am ‘being’. I experienced naivete as a “place in ‘me’” which ‘I’ can visit/become. I also noticed that when ‘I’ allow naiveté that there is this tenderness in ‘me’ which did not exist just prior. It is always experienced as being so right, that this is exactly how ‘I’ should ‘be’, not as a moral command but because it delivers the goods.
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Some time ago I took up a different way of teaching BJJ called the “ecological approach”. Which is essentially replacing choreographed non-resistance drilling (of the various ‘correct techniques’) with live games where students are encouraged to discover solutions to problems themselves. By and large this has been a very effective shift, both in terms of fun and learning.
But I have noticed where ‘I’ have been stuffing things up here, because ‘I’ turned it into a belief system and developed loyalty to this new approach. Basically it has been that whatever the question is the “ecological approach” is the answer.
And because I am still getting to grips with this new way of structuring practices there are times when I have come to a complete gridlock, having no idea how I could possibly teach what I intend to teach and still maintain loyalty to this new way of doing things.
And all the above has been seeping fun out of teaching for me!
Then I have been coming to realise that what I do in adopting a belief system is that I actually prevent my intelligence from freely operating. And not only does this create these seemingly impassable gridlocks but it removes me from being involved in the process, which is where the fun is at, fun comes from engagement.
In an ironic roundabout way I failed to realise that my teaching also develops through active problem solving just like what this “ecological approach” is trying to foster in martial arts practice.
And really why this “ecological approach” works so well for students is because it encourages naive learning. It is leaning through full involvement and active problem solving, it is all about looking at each situation afresh without the constraints of the various rights and wrongs. It is working things out for oneself in the moment and thus developing confidence in one’s ability to solve the next problem, and the next etc. It is all about encouraging more and more for one’s native intelligence to operate, and all this can be extremely fun and can lead to some quite amazing results.
But I haven’t given myself the chance to approach learning to teach in that same manner! Perhaps because I believe ‘the coach’ is meant to have it all worked out before hand, rather than having the freedom to learn through error and problem solving - how learning actually happens. As ‘the coach’ I haven’t given myself the freedom to make errors and so learning is stifled. So then I am only left with a Hail Mary of getting it all correct on the first go, and of course in that situation I have to turn to belief systems and then end up in inevitable gridlocks. It’s the loyalty that leads to the gridlocks, as my intelligence and common sense is not allowed to operate.
This actually touches upon one of “my top 5 themes” Which is the need to have it all worked out in advance, and naiveté does not operate that way. But I am getting these inklings that it is actually far better to discover each moment afresh, and to attend to it afresh.
Hmm so I have been looking at what is standing in the way of naiveté. It’s a little tricky because there are these feelings which seem to be often hiding behind some kind of neutrality. Perhaps because of some dissociation which has been happening to place them there.
Unless I actively pay attention I could say that “I feel ok”, but then when I pay attention to this neutrality I begin to notice the flavour of those feelings, and they are not felicitous and innocuous feelings.
Yesterday I went for a nap and when I woke up those feelings were gone, it was kind of weird actually, for a few hours after it was like someone had just gone and wiped the grime from a window and I was able to experience the world in a very clean and direct way. It was the kind of experiencing where driving to the shops later I looked at a reflection in a puddle and was just utterly delighted at how perfect it all is, I was able to fully enjoy and appreciate what is here without the constant interference of those feelings. So this was very useful to experience even if temporarily because it shows that without ‘me’ getting in the way there is just so much to enjoy and appreciate, it’s like wherever I cast my attention there is something else to marvel at. But those feelings which hide behind the neutrality had to get out of the way in order to allow this simple and earthly enjoyment and appreciation.
Although I am just not sure how to approach those feelings, it seems like I have trimmed all the fat of ‘me’ and now these feelings are what has been left behind, they are like these purely affective structures, it seems I can’t really do much else other than to experience them fully in a non-dissociative way.
And what I am getting at here seems to be what Richard spoke about below.
Frequently Asked Questions What to Do with the Instinctual Passions? :
RICHARD: “Speaking personally from experience, eventually – and ultimately – all the instincts are undone instantly via psychological and psychic ‘self’-sacrifice. This is, purely and simply, altruism at its very best … and altruism’s energy is an instinctual passion (this is indeed hoisting oneself by one’s bootstraps … writ large). However, until the initiation of the process that leads to ‘self’-immolation is consciously triggered – whereupon the ending of ‘me’ happens of its own accord – one can become acutely aware of the operation of the instinctual passions as they are experienced moment-to-moment. It is but the same ‘How am I experiencing this moment of being alive?’ investigation of beliefs and feelings … only extended deeper into one’s psyche.
Strangely enough, it does mean an exploration into the psychic realm … which is why it is essential that one first establishes a firm base – called virtual freedom – to fall back upon when the going gets tough. A journey into one’s psyche – which is the human psyche – is not for the faint of heart or the weak of knee … one must have nerves of steel to go all the way. The rewards for doing so are immense, however, and the ramifications far-reaching.
It means peace-on-earth, in this life-time, as this flesh and blood body.”
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Hi Kuba,
This is a very fortuitous and useful discovery and it also answers your next question of “what is standing in the way of naiveté” (link). In other words, when you are no longer distancing yourself from any aspect of yourself, i.e. “when ‘I’ am whole”, then sincerity is operating without restriction, which is the key to naiveté. As you experienced, it is something that you are ‘being’, not doing.
It is so lovely to discover that and be that, as much as you dare … and then some more.
Cheers Vineeto
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Hi Vineeto,
Thank you for your reply and for reminding me of that word - dare. It hasn’t been part of my vocabulary much lately, I think because I just couldn’t see any way forward for a while.
When allowing naiveté ‘I’ am stepping out of ‘my’ cage, this is always very wonderful and precious to experience, and yet it takes daring to initiate each time.
It seems this is because naiveté is dynamic, whereas back in ‘my’ cage (where ‘I’ suffer) there is this apparent ‘safety’ because it is static, it is where ‘I’ can control and live ‘the known’.
So the exhilarating part is the allowing of that which is dynamic and ever fresh, where ‘the known’ along with ‘me’ go to die. I get it now, that by the end there is no ‘me’ left, only that which is ever fresh.
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Hi Kuba,
Yes, and naiveté is where you have nothing to hide, hence the daring. It feels unfamiliar, somewhat vulnerable at first until you get used to it and appreciate the sweet and precious enjoyable feeling of being closer to what you are.
I remember a story Richard told about Devika when they were walking along the beach and Devika had an excellence experience or PCE. When they reached a more populated area Devika didn’t want to go further – she said “but they can see that I am naked” (existentially not physically). Richard then assured her that this nakedness is invisible to people – but this is exactly how one feels when first being naïve.
Also look out for interference from possible heroic pride (“where ‘the known’ along with ‘me’ go to die”) trying to make the experience your achievement, rather than what it actually is – the permission to let the universe live you.
Cheers Vineeto
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Hi Vineeto,
Thank you for the story, it is perfect! I know very well that feeling of vulnerability around (existential) nakedness, I wrestled with it a lot over the past couple of years. Recently it has not featured as much but I think that is more because I have been hanging back.
But I notice especially working with the hen do’s (which entails both actual nakedness and existential nakedness ) and teaching BJJ this feeling would reach quite the intensity. In both cases as coach or entertainer I am the focal point for many eyes and attempting to remain naive was indeed experienced as more rudely raw than taking off one’s clothes in the marketplace.
And this is where I would often go into quite weird reactionary responses, to regain some kind of a shell.
But it makes sense after-all that this is a feeling and not a fact, and that this existential nakedness is invisible to others. It’s a similar thing whenever I have spoken to Geoffrey via zoom, if I didn’t know that he is actually free I would never pick up on it.
I have certainly been enticed to go in that direction more now!
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So this prospect of being freely existentially naked has been on the forefront of my mind, it is a very exciting thing! I noticed that another big objection has fallen off since yesterday, which is closely related.
If anything this objection shows the ‘success’ or the strength of the social conditioning. Because along with this feeling of vulnerability there was always this impression… That it was as if the ‘who’ that ‘I’ am was displayed above me on a screen, and was ‘I’ to step outside of those boundaries there would be immediate corrective action from others. That someone would shout “Imposter! that is not the real Kuba, you must get back in line”. The funny thing is that I would experience this even when going to interact with people that I have never met before! That somehow they would also know that I have dared to step outside of those boundaries. It’s quite staggering to contemplate just the grip that ‘humanity’ has on it’s subjects.
And yet since yesterday it is like something went, allowing the possibility that this existential nakedness is invisible to others means that the control that ‘humanity’ exerts on ‘me’ exists only in the psyche also, and is therefore not a fact. Essentially it means that those chains which bind ‘me’ to ‘humanity’ require belief (and plenty of fear) for their effectiveness, without belief they melt away and are revealed to have been insubstantial all this time.
Also all this contemplation on becoming naked and abandoning ‘humanity’ reminded me of Geoffrey’s poem :
Geoffrey: For I had been exploring the unknown continent, its golden cities and living clouds, for weeks, without a word. When some letter found its way to me, its ink faded from the sea voyage, enquiring about matters so home-bound as to appear foreign: a quarrel about definitions, from the Royal Society of leathery armchairs, asking for my judgment. My ruling.
Please differentiate! they ask. Please settle our quarrel!
We wish to classify, exactly, those birds we’ve never seen!
So the golden city and the living clouds laughed and danced and sang:
"Won’t they open the windows? Won’t they bathe in the stream?
Won’t they take off their clothes, and swim through the sea?"
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It’s great to find this new degree of freedom, but it sounds to me like like you only think it’s ok to do, because people won’t find out. That’s is: you’ve dealt with this particular instance of fear from the group, but the possibility of it is intact(if they could know about how naked you are, you would feel the need to police yourself).
I really don’t wanna undermine your progress, but I’d say naivete is more in the direction of not feeling like you need to control yourself period(within the limits of practicality, but that’s just behavioral), not so much finding the unnecessary reasons you did control yourself for.
Now, it’s still very helpful to say the least. You are spending more time being naive, and that’s great and closer to the goal, but the fundamental mechanic of needing to police yourself whenever necessary, to be the way you’re supposed to(and thus not authentic and not naive) seems to still be there and is like a hook, that humanity still has in you and is waiting for the right situation to pull you back in.
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Hi Proporcrutch,
Yes that is a good point, I was circling this yesterday also. Just now I tried to find this post I wrote a while back about a particularly naive experience when at the shops some time ago. I wrote then (to the effect that) usually I would want to hide whereas with those naive and delightful ripples emanating from me it was not only utterly safe to no longer hide (for me and for others) but it was something that I actively delighted in/wanted to do.
So those situations/times when I feel the need to police myself, is likely because I know deep down that there is the ‘good’ or bad feelings somewhere in there, and as such it is not yet safe to abandon the controls, they are there for a reason after-all. And it is not even that I will run amok but more that those ripples emanating from me are not yet of a sincerely harmless and happy disposition.
Whereas I do remember periods of time where felicity and innocuity is cranked up and from that place there is no need for policing, and so the controls can be let go of in a way that is not forced or fabricated but rather like the natural next step in the progression of intimacy, like dropping off excess luggage that is no longer required.
So then taking the above in mind it is quite clear that the way forward is exactly what Richard described, which is to direct all of ‘my’ affective energy in to ‘being’ the felicitous and innocuous feelings. And I know this is possible and I know what it is like experientially.
The thing is though when I put this proposition to myself, to live that way, there is this “oh but do I really want it?”. There is a resistance to it because it entails leaving something else behind, namely the good and the bad feelings.
And then looking into myself as to why, I find something interesting, a little bit of how ‘I’ tick. So to go back to my ‘inner mother’, and the worldview which I inevitably inherited… I have spoken to my mother a few times about committing to being happy and harmless, and underneath the various objections there was always a common theme. Which if I was to reduce it to its essence it is the fear that without the good and bad feelings ‘I’ become impotent, that ‘I’ loose ‘my’ edge etc. Which those words are like breadcrumbs leading back to the worldview which spawned them - one of competition, survival, supremacy, vanity etc. Basically I clearly still have a stake in that world.
And to give an example of that worldview - I remember some time ago I was speaking to my mother, about abandoning that rat race of the real world. In defence of it she asked me “Do you think that if you were not so strong, healthy, good looking and competent that Sonya’s parent’s would ever want you as their son in law”, essentially it was to say - you were picked because of the kind of specimen you are. I cringe to even write this out, there are too many twisted things about such an assessment to even begin, but that is the flavour of that world.
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This morning I woke up feeling rather clean and whole, then this part of ‘me’ which I have been circling for a while presented itself experientially in such a naked way.
It is shame itself, something inculcated a long time ago and it was simply sitting there underneath the various parts of ‘me’.
And ‘I’ am this shame and this shame is ‘me’, this is what ‘I’ have been ‘being’ underneath many different dramas. But ‘I’ was never able to experience this shame as ‘me’, it was always “over there” and painful to touch.
I experienced it like a flower opening up to reveal a pearl in it’s centre, which was the shame itself, and it is ‘me’.
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Things are certainly progressing nicely, it is like I have been “cleaning out the cupboards” of all the things which I previously ignored or pushed to the side. I have been finding quite a few ‘good’ feelings still in there. What I found the past couple of days is that ‘I’ have been addicted to seeking, but never arriving. I could summarise my MO by that adage of “it is not about the destination but the journey”. And really this MO wants to ensure that one never arrives, because in arriving the ‘motion’ stops, the seeking stops, there is no longer a carrot ahead etc. Essentially the ‘good’ feelings which come from this strategy are all about the ‘motion’ itself, the high that comes from the chase.
It was quite uncomfortable initially to allow an end to this ‘motion’, like every part of ‘me’ resisted, and yet something does happen when I allow this, there is perfection to be found here and now, and once it is found there is no longer a need to seek, then it is about the living of it.
In a way felicity and innocuity and the ‘good’ feelings are like 2 different systems. In felicity and innocuity there is no seeking, there is an enjoyment and appreciation of this moment of being alive, in that sense I have already arrived and I am delighting in what is available. Whereas the ‘good’ feelings are very much like a ‘seeking system’, the thing is that they never arrive anywhere, they are a never ending chase, that is their very mechanism.
I am reminded of the below from Richard’s journal :
Richard: It is funny, at times, for I often gain the impression when I speak to others, that I am spoiling their game-plan. It seems as if they wish to journey forever … they consider the stasis that ensues in arriving at perfection to be a static equipollence rather than a motile equanimity.
Reading this some years back I thought these are just fancy words haha. But now I see what Richard is conveying. The initial resistance is the fear that in arriving there is some kind of a static monotony left, whereas the perfection which is discovered is dynamic, alive.
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Hi Kuba,
What a great experience and lovely description.
Did you realise now that shame is ‘me’, and no longer at arm’s length, it changes from antagonist to an ally (as in all of ‘you’ on board)?
And because you say in your next message “I have been “cleaning out the cupboards” of all the things which I previously ignored or pushed to the side” (link), the beginning of this conversation might be informative (Richard, List D, Jonathan, 4 Aug 2013).
Cheers Vineeto
Hi Vineeto,
Yes I was thinking the other day how since that seeing the landscape of ‘me’ has changed. Now that this part of ‘me’ is an ally - and especially since shame and morality can have a particularly divisive effect on ‘me’ - other parts of ‘me’ have been welcomed aboard the ship also, hence the cleaning out of the cupboards. And there is wind in the sails, provided by pure intent .