Vineeto: Just out of curiosity, do you recall which particular discovery, i.e. which of the ‘good’ feelings you investigated, happened to be the turning point to allow you live in this world “filled to the brim with magical anhedonic delight”?
Kuba: I do remember the turning point where this fully clicked so I will write about this for now. It was during a conversation I had with Sonya (which she agreed for me to post up), I was actually surprised at myself when I said what I said, I discovered it at the same time as the words were said.
There was a disagreement, about the fact that I don’t tend to buy Christmas presents or engage in those types of bonding activities. I could see though that the issue for Sonya was far more than the presents themselves. I ascertained immediately that there was a good feeling in there, responsible for the bad that she was experiencing. The issue then became about caring, and whether I care.
Some time down the line Sonya mentioned that she cares about us because she cares for our happiness, and yet I could see that the “care for our happiness” was causing her to become upset, something was clearly amiss!
That is when it clicked, I saw that in the goal of “our happiness” she had unwittingly allowed nurture/ love to slip into the equation, along with the various expectations, hopes, dreams etc.
This is when I said, something to the effect that “can you see that your goal of “our happiness” is actually the cause of this current lack of peace and harmony”.
Then it was all seen to be back to front, that the pursuit of “our happiness” (good feelings) was actively causing Sonya hurt and actively getting in the way of peace and harmony between us.
So this situation was where it all fully clicked, so it was more the outcome rather than the process. I will see if I can remember more of how this came about because I do remember that even before that – whilst we were in China – I was already starting to put those things together. (link)
Hi Kuba,
Thank you for this account. It is amazing how this demonstrated for you, and I guess eventually for her, that the feeling caring, so highly regarded in the real world, always has strings attached and thus spoils the genuine care that can/ could happen. Many correspondents over the years have attacked Richard and actualists in general for ‘not caring’ – some are collected in Flogged Misconceptions No. 2. It was excellent that you could show Sonya how her demand for caring has negative affective side-effects for both of you.
It took ‘Vineeto’ years to get an inkling of what Richard meant by actual caring. When ‘she’ really, experientially, understood the difference, ‘she’ was deeply shocked.
Richard: Hence it came to pass one fine evening that feeling-being ‘Vineeto’ realised, with a profound visceral impact, how ‘she’ had never actually cared – although ‘she’ certainly felt caring (in fact ‘she’ had a deeply-ingrained and ongoing feeling of caring about all the misery and mayhem) – and upon that realisation transforming itself into an actualisation (as per the intimacy-yearning processdetailed in the ‘Direct Route Mail-Out № 05 email part-quoted at the top of this page) it activated “a caring which is as close to an actual caring as an identity can muster” and there was indeed action which was not of ‘her’ doing … to wit: the ending of ‘her’ and all ‘her’ subterfuge and trickery (just to stay in keeping with the above wording purely for effect). [Emphasis added]. (Richard, List D, Srinath2, #intimacyyearning)
Richard: 1. When feeling-being ‘Vineeto’s everyday feeling of caring first shifted into what has since become known as a near-actual caring the qualitative difference was so marked in its effect ‘she’ initially mistook it to be an actual caring (as per ‘her’ memories of PCE’s). (Richard, List D, Srinath2, #near-actual-caring)
When you will read both posts to Srinath you can see that he too had difficulties wrapping his mind around the difference between feeling caring and actual / near-actual caring. It is not easy to question, let alone abandon, one of the most highly revered bastions of human civilisation. And there no benefit in just giving up caring unless one starts to experience something far better, as Richard demonstrated in the first quote above. It required the very visceral affective energy for ‘Vineeto’ to arrive at the “action which was not of ‘her’ doing”.
Kuba: Hmm it appears it might have been belonging, the apparent safety which inheres in its warmth. But this was only an entry point, because the pivotal thing was seeing the very intuitive concept of ‘the good’ for what it is. Which I see now as something like ‘humanity’s’ dirty secret, because of what underpins it. The PCE sealed the deal because neither the good nor the bad exists where ‘I’ am not.
But now it is like I cannot unseen it haha! It is everywhere, it is in every one of ‘my’ dramas and every one of ‘humanity’s’ dramas, the battle between good and evil, danger and safety, hope and despair etc is what keeps ‘humanity’ alive. It is only by going past / abandoning both the good and the bad that the immaculate perfection and pristine purity of this moment in time and this place in space becomes apparent. This last sentence takes some courage to write but it is how I experience it to take place exactly. (link)
I appreciate your report. I understand why you call the “concept of ‘the good’” “‘humanity’s’ dirty secret”, in hindsight – one can only see it when one is outside of ‘good’ and ‘evil’, and, as you say, one cannot make it unseen now that the veil is removed. It could have been the beginning of all the domino-pieces starting to fall (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK1VPyx0gXg), and I remember your post regarding abandoning hope, which was one of those dominoes –
Kuba: A few days ago, I saw that the next step in the direction I was proceeding was to abandon hope. It took daring for sure, it meant no more “redemptive straws”, only extinction ahead. I found though that without hope, despair also took its leave. Without hope and despair to maintain ‘me’ I have found myself pulled ever closer to my destiny, which is more and more experienced to be right under my nose.
This is what is different now, that before the “no man’s land” was experienced almost with a hint of eerie, an alien land where nothing familiar to ‘me’ existed. Whereas now it is more along the lines of what Srinath wrote – that this magical (actual) world is our rock solid inheritance. So there has been a lot of wondrous contemplation along these lines as well as experientially coming closer and closer to the destination. (6 Dec 2025)
Cheers Vineeto