Chrono's Journal

Part Two

CrossChrono: Another clue that stuck out for me was the word ‘unilateral’. Richard writes that only unilateral action will do the trick. That means it is not dependent on others. I had the fear that I would lose my partner if I chose to just feel good. But thru the few times that I have chosen to be that way with her, it definitely was better in every way. In being that way, there was a freedom that love could never grant. I did not experience her thru my insecurities or other fears. She is a free person and another individual. Unlike love, this is a free intimacy and nothing like what my fears intuited it to be. In fact, I think love is a bondage and yet another way of being in thrall. Even writing that, I can feel Humanity shaking its finger at me.

Yes, acting unilaterally is a very important clue. Richard reports when ‘he’ first realized that nobody was in charge of the world.

Richard: I saw with a starkly-staring clarity how no one knew what was going on and – most importantly – how no one was ‘in charge’ of the world (unlike childhood schools where the headmaster or headmistress in charge is the ultimate preventative of playground fights going out-of-control lethal). There was nobody to ‘save’ the human race insofar as all gods and goddesses were but a figment of febrile imagination. (Richard, Personal webpage)

Hence you can do with your life as you choose (as long as you obey the local laws and social protocol) and it depends on every person’s unilateral action to bring about peace-on-earth. It does not require the cooperation of a single person … let alone “Humanity”. So whenever “Humanity” is “shaking its finger at me” you know you are on the right track. :blush:

Richard: If you have followed what I have written so far, you will see it is a question of attitude, predilection, disposition and intent, because one can bring about a benediction from that perfection and purity which is the essential character of the universe by contacting and cultivating one’s original state of naiveté. Naiveté, as I have said, is that intimate aspect of oneself that is the nearest approximation that one can have of actual innocence – there is no innocence so long as there is a self – and constant awareness of naive intimacy results in a continuing benediction. This blessing allows a connection to be made between oneself and the perfection and purity of the infinitude of this physical universe. To reiterate: this connection I call pure intent. Pure intent endows one with the ability to operate and function safely in society without the incumbent social identity with its ever-vigilant conscience. Thus reliably rendered virtually innocent and relatively harmless by the benefaction of the perfection and purity, one can begin to dismantle the now-redundant social identity.

To unilaterally relinquish one’s esteemed identity is to go in the face of all received wisdom. Any psychiatrist would readily advise against such a foolish move – they will state that one would fall into a condition of mental and emotional ill-health. They would diagnose that one is likely to suffer from a severe mental disorder – probably ‘Depersonalisation’ and ‘Derealisation’ – with its accompanying anxiety and panic attacks, resulting in the prescribing of anti-psychotropic medication and prolonged psychological counselling. To ‘lose one’s identity’ and to ‘lose contact with reality’ is considered a very serious psychiatric illness indeed. So one must proceed carefully – with the indispensable aid of pure intent – in order to dismantle, step by step, one’s accrued identity and reality. (Richard, List A, No. 26)

CrossChrono: Then realizations had been hitting me back and forth for a bit. One thing that just smacked me in the face was like ‘all I have to do is feel good’. And this is easy. Whatever comes, I will do it feeling good. So I decided that I would not think about anything or do anything unless I was feeling good. This worked for quite a few days. I had the longest stretch of feeling good that I’ve ever experienced in a long time. Right around at the beginning of this I had another realization about being alive. It actually caught me by surprise. I was taking a shower and I became aware instantly that this entire time it has been this moment. It sounds like almost mundane. But quite literally, this entire time (forever) it has only been this moment. Even as I am writing this the implications of this are churning in my mind. All the ‘past’, ‘present’, and ‘future’ don’t have an actual existence. When I realized this, I became fascinated and I felt even more good automatically. So much safety and security in this moment. What a relief that only this moment exists. And another realization came some time after this one. Only I as this body can know that this moment exists. This one has been simmering for a little while longer. I am allowing it to gestate. There were a few other stand out experiences of perhaps a similar nature. […]

This is a serendipitous insight – only this flesh-and-blood body “can know that this moment exists”, and that now is the only moment you can actually experience. And given that this is the only moment you can actually experience, any time spent feeling bad is a waste of this precious actual moment. And with this experience comes the insight that there is “so much safety and security in this moment” – it is truly magical.

Remember those valuable insights – they need actualizing for them to take effect in your life.

Cheers Vineeto

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Part Three

CrossChrono: I also had some insight into authority. I’ve been seeing that very clearly that no one has any idea what they are doing in regards to living happily and harmlessly. I had been reading up on social identity and saw that there’s a semblance of peace in the world but not actual peace. No one was acknowledging the root cause of why there has not been any peace in the world. They are doing anything but addressing it (the same as I had been). So there is a widespread insincerity. Everyone is playing pretend and I also had internalized this and pretended like everyone else. By choosing to feel good irregardless of circumstances, I sometimes feel I am standing up to all of Humanity. How dare I feel good while the world suffers (or something like that)? Yet I feel more authentic when I am feeling good than at any other time. It’s the doubt casted by my internalizing of Humanity’s many ways of being that pull me back every time. By choosing to be how Humanity is, I give up being authentic. Now I see all of this is because Humanity has not actually addressed the root cause of there not being any peace.

It’s excellent that you more and more recognize the insincerity in ‘humanity’s’ morals and ethics because that will let you it shrug off more easily when you feel that ‘humanity’ is shaking its finger at you. There really is no such thing as humanity, it is a collectively felt phantom – there are only flesh-and-blood human beings (albeit all subject to instinctual passions and the identity formed thereof). As such the feeling that humanity is pulling you back is felt as real (as in you should obey the moral and ethical rules) but it is not actual. “Humanity has not actually addressed the root cause of there not being any peace” because it cannot – only individuals humans can do that – and it is delicious to slip out from under ‘humanity’s’ internalized yoke and devote one’s life to something really worth-while that can result in the perfection of actuality becoming apparent.

CrossChrono: So I had a unique experience after that. Unique because I had not experienced something like it before. So seeing as how Humanity does not know what it is doing, were there any real rules? Could I just become actually free if I wanted to? I had been contemplating this at home and then when I was at work as well. It was a particularly slow day at work so I just reflected on it more. As I was feeling somewhere between neutral to good at the time, I thought of this moment and how it has been this moment this whole time. I became aware of a ‘bigness’ or immensity. Not quite sure of how else to describe it. It grew and it was as if my awareness was drifting into outer space without any central focus. My normal way of being I’d describe as ‘indolent’ in the sense of I stayed the same fundamentally. But now I was electrified, invigorated, and exhilarated. It felt like something was performing surgery in my head. As awareness ‘grew’, I saw all of ‘me’ as a point and felt the sensation of it at my navel area. It reminded me of the ‘pale blue dot’. Except all of me was this pale blue dot. I felt all of sorrow and was on the verge of tears but the tears would not come. I’m not quite sure why after that, but I came back down to earth. I was back to normal and felt kind of frustrated after that. I felt frustrated that I couldn’t allow it to proceed further. The following days I allowed myself to slip below neutral. Then I once again gathered sufficient intent to feel good again. […]

To me it sounds like a description of having made a connection with pure intent. The contrast to being normal can be quite overwhelming so your pulling back is a natural reaction. Let this awareness grow again via fascinated attention and reflective contemplation all the way to apperceptive awareness.

Richard: Apperceptive awareness can be evoked by paying exclusive attention to being fully alive right now. This moment is your only moment of being alive … one is never alive at any other time than now. And, wherever you are, one is always here … even if you start walking over to ‘there’, along the way to ‘there’ you are always here … and when you arrive ‘there’, it too is here. Thus attention becomes a fascination with the fact that one is always here … and it is already now. Fascination leads to reflective contemplation. As one is already here, and it is always now … then one has arrived before one starts. The potent combination of attention, fascination, reflection and contemplation produces apperception, which happens when the mind becomes aware of itself. (Library, Topics, Apperception)

What an exciting adventure it is to be on the wide and wondrous path to an actual freedom.

I really enjoyed your whole report.

Cheers Vineeto

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Oh my… this has began to click recently that my whole journey ‘I’ had made sudorific in one way or another. It was all ‘I’ knew to do, “go hard or go home” even when it is supposed to be easy! :laughing:
I think I could teleport back in time to impart this information on ‘myself’ and still it would go in one ear and come out the other.
How could allowing ‘myself’ to feel good each moment again for the rest of ‘my’ life be hard or sudorific? What silliness haha.
‘I’ was on a very serious mission to slay dragons and complete all sorts of very sudorific quests because that was all ‘I’ knew to do.
It’s interesting that the actualism method can seem so difficult and yet isn’t living in the real world so very difficult? The suffering that each denizen of the real world manages to get through daily is legendary, it really is impressive. How could removing that boulder off one’s back and simply enjoying and appreciating be hard in comparison?

And I can see now that each human being has the capacity to succeed with the method, because what they get through on the daily is already way harder. The success with the method comes from locating and walking down the path which delivers the goods, not in being even more sudorific. Richard succeeded and was exceptional because of his ability to locate this unknown/unwalked path and being naive enough to proceed down it unilaterally.

It really is like all of ‘humanity’ is walking down this straight and narrow path. It is a very difficult and painful path and yet they trudge on, day in day out. Someone eventually discovers this other path, an unmarked and unwalked path of freedom and gaiety. Of course they plant a flag and wave down to their fellow human beings, inviting them to join where it is all so easy. And yet something compels everyone to put that boulder right back onto the shoulders and continue on the straight and narrow, labelling the other way as “too dangerous”, “too difficult” etc. Perhaps to the denizens of the real world who are so conditioned to daily suffering it seems like the path of freedom and gaiety could not work specifically because it is too easy, therefore it is not worth investing one’s time in (apparently). It is a self-imposed suffering after-all, yet it is completely unnecessary.

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Vineeto: To have sincere intent is vital. I noticed an aspect in your report is about control, ‘me’ controlling ‘me’ to move into the direction ‘I’ think is right – and that approach is sudorific, at best. Even though the ingredient may be right, the outcome is still a serious enterprise of ‘you’ forcing yourself to be in a particular way.

Kuba: Oh my… this has began to click recently that my whole journey ‘I’ had made sudorific in one way or another. It was all ‘I’ knew to do, “go hard or go home” even when it is supposed to be easy!
How could allowing ‘myself’ to feel good each moment again for the rest of ‘my’ life be hard or sudorific? What silliness haha.
‘I’ was on a very serious mission to slay dragons and complete all sorts of very sudorific quests because that was all ‘I’ knew to do.
It’s interesting that the actualism method can seem so difficult and yet isn’t living in the real world so very difficult? The suffering that each denizen of the real world manages to get through daily is legendary, it really is impressive. How could removing that boulder off one’s back and simply enjoying and appreciating be hard in comparison? (link)

Hi Kuba,

Brilliant.

I can’t help by what you just said be reminded of the Cognitive Dissonance Theory – such behaviour is not only as old as each human being slightly or more severely afflicted by it – it is as old and atavistic as humanity itself. No wonder it’s so difficult to overcome and to even consider that enjoying oneself and appreciating being alive could improve one’s life.

Richard: Cognitive Dissonance Theory:
• [Richard (based on several web sources)]: The ‘cognitive dissonance theory’ suggests that when experiences or information contradicts existing knowledge, attitudes, beliefs or feelings, differing degrees of mental-emotional distress is the habitual result. The distressed personality is predisposed to alleviate this discord by reinterpreting (distorting) the offending information. Concurrent with this falsification, core beliefs tend to be vigorously defended by warping discernment and memory … such people are prone to misinterpret cues and ‘remember’ things to be as they wish they had happened instead of how they actually happened. They may be selective in what they recall, overestimating their apparent successes, while ignoring, downplaying, or explaining away their failures.

However it is more than merely a foolish head-in-the-sand psychological aberration, because the new, the fresh, the novel is oft-times met with determined resistance, disagreement, opposition and hostility. Indeed, the record of history shows many an occasion where someone who dared to question conventional beliefs was tortured, stoned, rent asunder, burnt at the stake, or otherwise horrifically put to death. (additional link in original).

It is difficult to comprehend the extent and depth of the brutal ignorance and downright stupidity required of the great mass of people who, unable to grasp innovative things that were to their own advantage, fought to retain the existing mind-set which was inimical to their welfare. It is the strangest of incongruities in regards to human pertinacity that peoples will invent reasons and struggle to maintain a state of affairs that is detrimental to their own advancement … even those conditions which enslave them.

The scientific method has evolved, in a large part, to reduce the impact of this human penchant for jumping to such self-justifying yet erroneous conclusions. (Richard, Abditorium, Cognitive Dissonance).

Cheers Vineeto

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Wow this is exactly the reaction I had just now reading the first quoted paragraph, the extent and depth of the madness that would have people burnt at the stake for proposing that which was to everybody’s benefit. That ‘humanity’ is so addicted to remaining in existence (and therefore unchanged) that it would torture and murder at the worst or castigate and ostracise at the best those who offer an aid to ‘humanity’s’ self-imposed suffering.
It is really bizzare and a neat example is how people still fight against the modern way of living in it’s many expressions, viewing it as some kind of perversion. That it’s not beneficial apparently to live in a warm house, with easy provisions and a host of entertainment, that somehow it be good for us to be back in the forest eeking out an animal like existence.

This belief that suffering is good for one, what a persistent and utterly rotten belief. And yet isn’t it exactly what is at core of this insistence on making everything so damn sudorific. “If ‘I’ am suffering then something good must be happening”.

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Richard: It is difficult to comprehend the extent and depth of the brutal ignorance and downright stupidity required of the great mass of people who, unable to grasp innovative things that were to their own advantage, fought to retain the existing mind-set which was inimical to their welfare.

Kuba: Wow this is exactly the reaction I had just now reading the first quoted paragraph, the extent and depth of the madness that would have people burnt at the stake for proposing that which was to everybody’s benefit. That ‘humanity’ is so addicted to remaining in existence (and therefore unchanged) that it would torture and murder at the worst or castigate and ostracise at the best those who offer an aid to ‘humanity’s’ self-imposed suffering.
It is really bizarre and a neat example is how people still fight against the modern way of living in it’s many expressions, viewing it as some kind of perversion. That it’s not beneficial apparently to live in a warm house, with easy provisions and a host of entertainment, that somehow it be good for us to be back in the forest eeking out an animal like existence.

This belief that suffering is good for one, what a persistent and utterly rotten belief. And yet isn’t it exactly what is at core of this insistence on making everything so damn sudorific. “If ‘I’ am suffering then something good must be happening”. (link)

Hi Kuba,

Richard always maintained that the flow-on effect of what we are seeing today as our standard morals, ethics and principles how to live life comes from the dead enlightened masters and saints of a 3000-5000-year history of humanity. It took a while time for ‘Vineeto’ to wrap ‘her’ mind around it. And yet I can see it happening – for instance suffering is good for you – this is not only the Christian ethic but valid all over the world. The Buddhist motto – diagnosis: life is suffering – solution: avoid being born. All cultures believe that happiness is only achievable after physical death.

Peter: Nobody believes that it is possible to be completely and irrevocably happy and harmless in the world as-it-is, on earth, here, now, as a flesh and blood body. This belief is, after all, the core of Ancient Wisdom – the sacred and inviolate centre-piece of the Human Condition – that life is a ‘growth’ experience based on suffering.

Richard: I cannot stress enough how, with a virtual freedom being more or less the norm worldwide, global amity and equity would be an on-going state of affairs. (Library, Topics, Virtual Freedom)

It’s up to each of us, one by one, to change the norm. It’s a wondrous and worthwhile enterprise.

Cheers Vineeto

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Ah this is so much fun, yes I have often contemplated the very same thing. Indeed the ‘mould’ that they set in place back then is as if the very outline of reality, the rules of the game.

And this one also! I have often wondered about something that is called these days a “growth mindset”, it’s a very popular ideology these days. I see it in a lot of high achievers, and for sure it was something that I was subject to for a long time. It could be summarised by this idiom in martial arts that a fighter trains for a competition and a martial artist trains for a lifetime, they are on an “endless path of self improvement”, never perfect but always striving to be better. It’s funny that the proponents of this creed see themselves as modern day samurais which of course gives a clue as to where this wisdom came from.

In this view of life there is never enjoyment and appreciation of this moment of being alive as each moment is merely an opportunity to progress towards something that can never be reached. And of course from this viewpoint anything that does not serve that ultimate (unreachable) goal is seen as a waste of time, enjoying and appreciating this moment of being alive is then also a waste of time.

It’s funny that this “growth midnset” initially enjoyed a revival in popular culture and then lately it started to become a caricature with a new name of “grind mindset”. Where people clocked onto the silliness of what was being demonstrated, the next influencer with the 20 step guide on how to start your morning and how to measure this and that variable for ‘optimum performance’, that this is a life wasted in always pursuing something for the sake of the chase and nothing more, all very serious and sudorific also.
It is fascinating that these values simply flow from those spiritual values set up “back then”. It’s also fascinating that Richard was able to locate these new and genuine values which originate from the perfection and purity of the actual world.

What Peter wrote really hit’s bullseye with regards to the outlines of my identity - “that life is a ‘growth’ experience based on suffering”. This is ‘me’ as the high achiever, finding meaning in endless strenuous challenges. Unable to unreservedly place enjoyment and appreciation as the number 1 thing to be done. So it makes sense that I would make this ultimate achievement (actual freedom) into a sudorific challenge for ‘me’.
Accepting that it is easy and also that it will actually happen now (hence no more pursuit) is to put ‘myself’ out of business. Yet this is already happening and has been the past couple of days. I can no longer proceed in the difficult direction, I know it is a dead end. Now it is just the case of proceeding towards this new way of living known as actual freedom.

@cross.chrono Let me know if you’d rather I move this to my journal.

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Vineeto: Richard always maintained that the flow-on effect of what we are seeing today as our standard morals, ethics and principles how to live life comes from the dead enlightened masters and saints of a 3000-5000-year history of humanity.

Kuba: Ah this is so much fun, yes I have often contemplated the very same thing. Indeed the ‘mould’ that they set in place back then is as if the very outline of reality, the rules of the game.

Hi Kuba,

Yes, it is fun to discover and recognize the pattern and how much everyone’s lifestyle, values, principles and values matches it exactly. That is the only way not to be a slave to it any longer.

Peter: Nobody believes that it is possible to be completely and irrevocably happy and harmless in the world as-it-is, on earth, here, now, as a flesh and blood body. This belief is, after all, the core of Ancient Wisdom – the sacred and inviolate centre-piece of the Human Condition – that life is a ‘growth’ experience based on suffering.

Kuba: And this one also! I have often wondered about something that is called these days a “growth mindset”, it’s a very popular ideology these days. I see it in a lot of high achievers, and for sure it was something that I was subject to for a long time. It could be summarised by this idiom in martial arts that a fighter trains for a competition and a martial artist trains for a lifetime, they are on an “endless path of self improvement”, never perfect but always striving to be better. It’s funny that the proponents of this creed see themselves as modern day samurais which of course gives a clue as to where this wisdom came from. […]

This “growth mindset” as you describe it, is nothing new, it is very very old, it only has a new shiny wrapper. The aim is to always improve but never arrive. It made sense in the early days of humanity when people had to work hard to make a living and feed their children – now in an affluent society the goals and values stay the same but make no sense whatsoever.

In its own way, the sacred value of love is one of best examples of this “never perfect but always striving” set-up. Because it is the identity’s substitute for the actual benevolence, for actual caring and actual intimacy of actual freedom, and as such as fake as the identity itself, love can only promise but never deliver and never satisfy.

Kuba: It is fascinating that these values simply flow from those spiritual values set up “back then”. It’s also fascinating that Richard was able to locate these new and genuine values which originate from the perfection and purity of the actual world.

I find it cute that you say “Richard was able to locate these new and genuine values” – ha, he did “locate” them in his PCEs, which many if not everyone experiences, but he was the only one who considered it possible and expedient enough to find a way to permanently live in the perfection and purity of the actual world.

Kuba: What Peter wrote really hit’s bullseye with regards to the outlines of my identity – “that life is a ‘growth’ experience based on suffering”. This is ‘me’ as the high achiever, finding meaning in endless strenuous challenges. Unable to unreservedly place enjoyment and appreciation as the number 1 thing to be done. So it makes sense that I would make this ultimate achievement (actual freedom) into a sudorific challenge for ‘me’.

Don’t be too hard on yourself, you have done very well – to arrive at this point where you know for a fact that no improvement of ‘me’ will ever allow ‘me’ to enter the actual world. That is the very end of the “sudorific challenge”, a taboo outcome for a ‘high achiever’, lol.

Kuba: Accepting that it is easy and also that it will actually happen now (hence no more pursuit) is to put ‘myself’ out of business. Yet this is already happening and has been the past couple of days. I can no longer proceed in the difficult direction, I know it is a dead end. Now it is just the case of proceeding towards this new way of living known as actual freedom. (link)

Ha, this is great to hear. Now you are ‘forced’ to enjoy and appreciate that life was meant to be easy. It will be tough to get used to that, won’t it!

Cheers Vineeto

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Yes haha, ‘forced’ by running out of any other possible alternatives and having no choice but to accept the fact. So I took the longest route possible but it for sure worked, ‘I’ no longer have a say in the matter.

Indeed, the last thing the ‘high achiever’ wanted to find out and yet ‘he’ gave ‘himself’ no other option but to eventually arrive at the facts.

I have so much appreciation for being able to talk like this and not just as idle discussion or “looking for problems to solve” because just as you mentioned in the past that peace on earth was your favourite subject I can now unreservedly say the same. And not just as a subject to be discussed but as an overarching goal in my life.

It was always there, buried underneath all these other values and pursuits.
There was always this intent to find a way for myself and my fellow human beings to live how the PCE demonstrated to be possible. Yet this intent was as if filtered through various lenses of ‘my’ identity.
As the ‘high achiever’ deep down ‘I’ wanted the same but knew of no other way. This ‘high achiever’ could only go so far though because ‘he’ had locked ‘himself’ apart from others by ‘his’ own quest.

As a ‘high achiever’ ‘I’ was in ‘my’ own ivory tower which means I could not be a fellow human being.
And it is a tricky position to be in, there was a certain severity that came about as a result of locking ‘myself’ away like so, ‘I’ had separated ‘myself’ from ‘my’ roots.

This ‘high achiever’ did well to get thus far, ‘he’ used what was already at hand but ‘he’ could never altruistically sacrifice ‘himself’ out of the ivory tower.
‘I’ proceed towards ‘my’ self-immolation so that I can be what I have been all along - a fellow human being.

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Thank you Vineeto for the pointers and encouraging response.

Yes this was my understanding as well but I had not been making any further headway in clearing it up completely so that it’s just second nature to not go in that direction. I thought maybe I just had to actively nip it in the bud and that perhaps it was a habitual action in going towards love. I’ve seen the underlying patterns too many times so I thought may be I was just being crazy to keep “investigating” it.

But this in particular caught my eye:

Perhaps I need to go further and ween myself as well. I had noticed that love and my relation to it plays into the male identity too. When I think about it, it feels like that to be successful in love also means being successful in society in general. Those who can outwardly show that they are succecssful in their relationships are seen as examplars of knowing the secret to living a happy life. And I think that coupled with the psychological authority set in place and built upon since childhood serves to create a persistent doubt that “they” know something that I don’t.

I also find interesting that in one of the articles posted by Richard that lust is also described as love (lust, attraction, attachment). But most often, it is the attraction and attachment parts that are described as love. Perhaps an attempt to separate out the ‘bad’ from the ‘good’. I feel lust and attraction more often than attachment. At one point I sat with lust and attraction and it became so strong that it seemed like an overpowering desire. In the middle it felt like it was more about sexual conquest than anything to do with caring for another person. I’ve had many occasions before when I am out at a social setting with a woman I liked that I was actually in a competition in the jungle with other men trying to “win” and be better so that I may prove myself worthy of being with this woman. Even further than that it seems like it’s about vying for status everywhere I go. And behind it all then must be this instinctual desire for power. When I felt it, it also made me a little embarassed that I had these feelings.

Another aspect that may be further compounding the suffering of love for me is perhaps related to all of this. It’s tied to the male identity. Basically, if I fail at love then it means I’m a failure of society in general. Putting all of this together then it seems like it’s about “winning” and conquest rather than about any sort of peace or intimacy. Then my partner also has her own identity of what it is to be a woman. Both of this male and female identity seem to be at odds with one another. It feels like then to abandon this male identity means to abandon how I relate with women as well. This leaves that feeling of loneliness and aloneness again.

Yes this sinking in is what I need to allow so that I never go down this road again.

It’s interesting that you do notice that control aspect in the report as it’s a problem that I know I have struggled with for a long time. I have a tendency to break myself into two with one “working on” the other. It feels like it’s the only way I can “do” anything. In the beginning, even looking at feelings created a split. ‘I’ would try to make myself feel something else and it would create really great discomfort that I could feel in my body. It also highlights a fundamental confusion within ‘me’.

I’ll keep this in mind and focus on it to see where it leads.

Haha I don’t mind the discussion at all. It’s very informative :slight_smile: .

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Vineeto: In order to successfully ‘nip in the bud’ it’s essential to have understood the underlying patterns of the occurring feelings you want to ‘nip’. Obviously there is still some remnant investment in love, which is not surprising, as it is considered the highly-prized cure-all for loneliness and the mess of the human condition in general.

Chrono: Yes this was my understanding as well but I had not been making any further headway in clearing it up completely so that it’s just second nature to not go in that direction. I thought maybe I just had to actively nip it in the bud and that perhaps it was a habitual action in going towards love. I’ve seen the underlying patterns too many times so I thought maybe I was just being crazy to keep “investigating” it.
But this in particular caught my eye:

Vineeto: Seeing this fact, thus abandoning the romantic dream, and reclaiming ‘her’ autonomy, was only the beginning of a longer process of weening ‘herself’ off the whole maze of female identity and man-woman relating in general.

Chrono: Perhaps I need to go further and ween myself as well. I had noticed that love and my relation to it plays into the male identity too. When I think about it, it feels like that to be successful in love also means being successful in society in general. Those who can outwardly show that they are successful in their relationships are seen as exemplars of knowing the secret to living a happy life. And I think that coupled with the psychological authority set in place and built upon since childhood serves to create a persistent doubt that “they” know something that I don’t.

Hi CrossChrono,

You are very welcome.

I see you already discovered more to understand love and man-woman relating from an additional aspect – the identity of being a ‘man’ in society’s eyes. This “persistent doubt” is nothing other than your social conditioning you have been subject to from an early age – of course you feel “that “they” know something that I don’t”.

However, if you look more closely at the individuals who make up ‘society’, it will become obvious to you that the ‘happy’ and “successful in their relationships” façade is just that. Just study women’s magazines, watch the news, observe your neighbours and workmates, and you find that what is presented in Hollywood movies is not the whole picture. Here, for instance, are ‘Peter’s’ observation from his Journal –

Peter: At this stage it may be useful to state my motives for writing. As I watch television, read newspapers, listen to people and observe the relationships of men and women around me, I see sorrow – sadness, melancholy, despair, resignation and the bitter-sweetness of love; and malice – vindictiveness, sarcasm, revenge, innuendo, gossip, jealousy, violence and hate. Nowhere do I see delight, contentment, satisfaction, benevolence, consensus and co-operation. Nor do I see any men and women living together in peace and harmony. So I thought my story could be useful to anyone who, like me, hadn’t given up yet, but who could see they had ‘nothing left to lose’ in trying something new. (Peter’s Journal, ‘Foreword’)

You can find more on this topic in Peter’s Selected Writings on Living Together. There are also some observations at this link.

The best way to explore this topic is by approaching it in a naïve way, by putting aside preconceived sophisticated ideas of what you should be like as a man or as a partner, and start exploring afresh what it is like to interact with a fellow human being who happens to be a female. You might even discover what you have in common and also what the “battle of the sexes”, the notion of a woman’s camp and a man’s camp, prevents you from finding out. With the sincere, and unilateral, intent to be happy and harmless a lot can be explored in a friendly fashion (which includes being friendly with yourself).

Chrono: I also find interesting that in one of the articles posted by Richard that lust is also described as love (lust, attraction, attachment). But most often, it is the attraction and attachment parts that are described as love. Perhaps an attempt to separate out the ‘bad’ from the ‘good’. I feel lust and attraction more often than attachment. At one point I sat with lust and attraction and it became so strong that it seemed like an overpowering desire. In the middle it felt like it was more about sexual conquest than anything to do with caring for another person. I’ve had many occasions before when I am out at a social setting with a woman I liked that I was actually in a competition in the jungle with other men trying to “win” and be better so that I may prove myself worthy of being with this woman. Even further than that it seems like it’s about vying for status everywhere I go. And behind it all then must be this instinctual desire for power. When I felt it, it also made me a little embarrassed that I had these feelings.

Ha, it’s not easy to admit that sexual desire is happening, neither socially nor privately, so it is more coyly labelled ‘attraction’ or ‘beauty’ or ‘appeal’. It is exactly as you describe it, the law of the “jungle” where the raw instinctual passions are dictating one’s feelings and behaviour. It is advantageous that you felt “a little embarrassed” – this is the very feeling which can open the door to naiveté. Try it out, it is delicious once you overcome your first hesitation to feeling a bit foolish.

Chrono: Another aspect that may be further compounding the suffering of love for me is perhaps related to all of this. It’s tied to the male identity. Basically, if I fail at love then it means I’m a failure of society in general. Putting all of this together then it seems like it’s about “winning” and conquest rather than about any sort of peace or intimacy. Then my partner also has her own identity of what it is to be a woman. Both of this male and female identity seem to be at odds with one another. It feels like then to abandon this male identity means to abandon how I relate with women as well. This leaves that feeling of loneliness and aloneness again. […]

Don’t give up so easily. It’s a fascinating adventure when one is involved in discovering the details of what makes up a man’s identity, and the more you discover the more it will fall away applying fascinated attention to those details. What remains is being more what you are, a fellow human being, and as I said to you before, I know from personal experience how much a woman can appreciate intimacy just as much as men do, even though she may not know that this is really what she is looking for when she says she wants love.

Vineeto: To have sincere intent is vital. I noticed an aspect in your report is about control, ‘me’ controlling ‘me’ to move into the direction ‘I’ think is right – and that approach is sudorific, at best. Even though the ingredient may be right, the outcome is still a serious enterprise of ‘you’ forcing yourself to be in a particular way.

Chrono: It’s interesting that you do notice that control aspect in the report as it’s a problem that I know I have struggled with for a long time. I have a tendency to break myself into two with one “working on” the other. It feels like it’s the only way I can “do” anything. In the beginning, even looking at feelings created a split. ‘I’ would try to make myself feel something else and it would create really great discomfort that I could feel in my body. It also highlights a fundamental confusion within ‘me’. (link)

Indeed, forcing or manipulating yourself to feel something you don’t feel is bound to fail. Recognize that ‘I’ am my feelings, in contrast to I have feelings which I want to control/ manoeuvre. Recognizing and acknowledging that you are your feelings you discover that you do have a choice to be felicitous and innocuous feelings (and naiveté). Also, do not attempt to investigate any problems or issues unless you are at least feeling good, if not better. Unless the actualism method is fun and easy, fascinating and adventurous, you are missing one or more of the above-mentioned vital ingredients, which can easily be corrected.

Cheers Vineeto

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I’ve been focusing on the last two months on naivete. Perhaps this is the missing element in my life. And I did have an experience of it. First I saw that it was behind my debilitating doubt about how the world and humanity knows something that I don’t as I wrote on further back. The notion or thought of challenging this made me feel like a fool or embarrassed. I just watched how this manifested in many areas of my life. From work to relationships to all of my interactions and all the dots started connecting. There’s an entire edifice that conveys the feeling that I would just be stupid to just enjoy life right now simply for being alive. It manifests as a rampant cynicism. I can see it clearly now in myself and others being reinforced on many occasions. It has quite an oppressive quality.

I took note of this and kept it in mind. Also as I followed along everyone’s journeys here, I allowed myself to feel embarrassed anyway instead of turning back. Actually I feel it right now as I’m writing this because of sharing it here, like maybe I should doubt my own experience haha. But I’ve already been down that path and it just leads back to the same old same old. When I did allow myself to feel it I had a glimpse into seeing the world in an almost magical way. It immediately reminded me of so many things from my childhood. I had completely forgotten it. I’m not even sure how to very accurately convey it with the proper words on just how wondrous the world looks. It’s like being on the edge of your seat and like you are about to explore something new. I’m just so glad and full of appreciation that this is the world that I live in.

I’ve had the longest streak of feeling good since perhaps ever. I’ve only dropped down to feeling bad may be a few times but even when I did, it wasn’t quite the same as before. Like it doesn’t quite have the hold it does as before. I’m not willfully ignoring the exit sign from it. The states of suffering that I felt prior felt like I would never get out of it.

It feels more like I am now standing a little more outside that edifice of doubt. When I visited my parents again with all of this in mind, they no longer had the same effect on me. It became clear that they were the first authority from which the edifice of authority was built on. I could clearly see how they were operating and that they were operating the same way. Trying to instill the same fears in me, but this time it seemed just flat out silly. I knew these fears were of no substance. What a relief! This is like a breakthrough for me.

So to continue from where I left off, I can now see an alternative path from my usual modus operandi of how I interact with my partner and with others. A highlight being an alternative path from the road of sexual desire. A soft intimacy which was blocked due to the belief that I will be alone if I did not continue down the path placed before me by Humanity. A path supported with the belief in a ‘man’ and how that identity should be with his partner (a ‘woman’) and to society. Now it’s starting to become easier :slightly_smiling_face:. I had the thoughts after my pure intent experience before like there’s ‘no way that this is possible’. Now it seems possible!

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Cross.Chrono: I’ve been focusing on the last two months on naiveté. Perhaps this is the missing element in my life. And I did have an experience of it. First I saw that it was behind my debilitating doubt about how the world and humanity knows something that I don’t as I wrote on further back. The notion or thought of challenging this made me feel like a fool or embarrassed. I just watched how this manifested in many areas of my life. From work to relationships to all of my interactions and all the dots started connecting. There’s an entire edifice that conveys the feeling that I would just be stupid to just enjoy life right now simply for being alive. It manifests as a rampant cynicism. I can see it clearly now in myself and others being reinforced on many occasions. It has quite an oppressive quality.

Hi Cross.Chrono,

Ah, it’s always a pleasure to hear someone endorse naiveté and even more so calling it “the missing element in my life”.

Even though you may be right suspecting that many people (not “humanity” though) know something, anything, that you don’t – you now know something so elemental to feeling good that many people would envy you for waking up to that and start living it as you seem to have done.

Vineeto: It is advantageous that you felt “a little embarrassed” – this is the very feeling which can open the door to naiveté. Try it out, it is delicious once you overcome your first hesitation to feeling a bit foolish.

Cross.Chrono: I took note of this and kept it in mind. Also as I followed along everyone’s journeys here, I allowed myself to feel embarrassed anyway instead of turning back. Actually I feel it right now as I’m writing this because of sharing it here, like maybe I should doubt my own experience haha. But I’ve already been down that path and it just leads back to the same old same old. When I did allow myself to feel it I had a glimpse into seeing the world in an almost magical way. It immediately reminded me of so many things from my childhood. I had completely forgotten it. I’m not even sure how to very accurately convey it with the proper words on just how wondrous the world looks. It’s like being on the edge of your seat and like you are about to explore something new. I’m just so glad and full of appreciation that this is the world that I live in.

This is indeed marvellous. Richard used to call it “‘the cutting edge of reality’ back in the days when there was an ‘I’ inhabiting this body”, in order to convey the immediacy of experiencing –

Richard: I would say to myself: ‘This is my only moment of being alive … I am actually here doing this reading of these words now’. The past – although it was actual whilst it was happening – is not happening now … and never will again. A past peak experience can never be repeated … it is useful inasmuch as it bestows the requisite confidence that it is possible to experience the purity of the perfection of life here and now … but that is it, finish. One slips into this moment in time and this place in space by being aware that all this that is happening is happening for the very first time and that I have never been here before doing this. In fact: I have never been here before. In everyday terminology this moment in time is the ‘cutting-edge of reality’. Who knows what will happen next as ‘the future’ does not exist until this moment happens.
If this realisation is not thrilling I would like to know what is! (Richard, AF List, Vineeto, 5 Aug 1998).

Cross.Chrono: I’ve had the longest streak of feeling good since perhaps ever. I’ve only dropped down to feeling bad may be a few times but even when I did, it wasn’t quite the same as before. Like it doesn’t quite have the hold it does as before. I’m not willfully ignoring the exit sign from it. The states of suffering that I felt prior felt like I would never get out of it.

I see you are really getting the hang of it. When you are naïve, your previous ‘problems’ can no longer present themselves as serious as before and that makes it also so much easier to either decline them right away or find the triggers no longer as gripping and convincing as before. When it gets to the stage where you can’t even take yourself as serious as before then the fun takes over and life becomes truly an exquisite adventure.

Cross.Chrono: It feels more like I am now standing a little more outside that edifice of doubt. When I visited my parents again with all of this in mind, they no longer had the same effect on me. It became clear that they were the first authority from which the edifice of authority was built on. I could clearly see how they were operating and that they were operating the same way. Trying to instill the same fears in me, but this time it seemed just flat out silly. I knew these fears were of no substance. What a relief! This is like a breakthrough for me.

While parents were the first authority for you – as for most children – it’s helpful to keep in mind that the situation was the same for your parents, and for their parents, and so on. This means that nobody is to blame for the mess one finds oneself in, and by taking the blame away, doubt will disappear as well because you realize that nobody is the ultimate authority – no one or no thing is in charge of the universe … that there is no ‘Ultimate Authority’. It might be a shock at the start but realizing this fact is incredibly liberating. It puts you in charge of your own life … and your freedom (and your happiness and harmlessness) is in your hands alone.

Cross.Chrono: So to continue from where I left off, I can now see an alternative path from my usual modus operandi of how I interact with my partner and with others. A highlight being an alternative path from the road of sexual desire. A soft intimacy which was blocked due to the belief that I will be alone if I did not continue down the path placed before me by Humanity. A path supported with the belief in a ‘man’ and how that identity should be with his partner (a ‘woman’) and to society. Now it’s starting to become easier . I had the thoughts after my pure intent experience before like there’s ‘no way that this is possible’. Now it seems possible! (link)

You will find, when you dare to continue to live it more and more, that both naiveté and intimacy are contagious and enticing for those sensitive to it. The authority you used to believe in and obey is the same authority which set the rules for “the belief in a ‘man’ and how that identity should be with his partner (a ‘woman’) and to society”. This authority no longer has the full credibility now as it used to have for you, and with pure intent guiding you, you can explore in which way a male and a female human being can most beneficially interact with each other in a win-win interaction of two fellow human beings.

Cheers Vineeto

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After the last post I noticed that I could not up-level feeling good and also could not maintain naivete past a certain level and felt that something was amiss. First, I went on vacation for a little less than 2 weeks to some cities in France and Italy this past month with my girlfriend. It was my first time visiting anywhere in Europe so we decided to book multiple cities over the course of that time. I was not able to enjoy it as much due to the constant moving between cities every 2-3 days. I’d say the main issue was the lack of sleep as I could not get my usual amount and we immediately started doing activities as soon we landed. My sleep requirement also seems to be higher than my girlfriend.

Things started feeling sour during the second half of the trip when we were in Rome and Sorrento. My girlfriend really did not enjoy the “oldness” of the cities and this put a damper on her mood. This in turn started to have an effect on my mood too. I was already very tired and I could not continue feeling good so I started feeling anxious and resentful. This subsided towards the last couple days of the trip. But with that said, there were also many enjoyable moments as well. During the first half, I was quite surprised to note that the crowds did not bother me as much and didn’t affect how I feel. Usually crowds make me almost angry for some irrational reason.

After returning back to the usual routine, I fell into a cycle of telling myself off for not having maintained feeling good. Then I also “forgot” how it felt to be naive and also how the experience of pure intent was like and fell back into my old habits. One of the main ones being how ‘I’ try to change ‘myself’ (perhaps like how I’ve described above) and this creates a literal physical discomfort in my head and chest. Usually when this happens I go back to square one.

Square one is the recognition of how ‘I’ am ‘my’ feelings and ‘my’ feelings are ‘me’. Because when you change how you feel by being a different feeling, there’s nothing to solve or think about. Yet I would still feel this literal discomfort in my head. Some deep tendency makes me almost tend towards splitting myself and trying to “work” on ‘myself’ this way. Here’s what I had written down in my phone journal:

The attempting to grasp control of the somatic reaction to a feeling. Being unable to triggers the obsessive tendency to resolve it.

Noted a feeling of resentment behind the visceral recoiling.

When the feeling arises, seeing if I am expressing it or repressing it. Do neither.

The first layer is somatic reactions to the feeling and the attempt to control them while the feeling can’t even be fully felt. The somatic reaction gets mistaken for the feeling. Underneath is a resentment that I’m experiencing anything negative.

As I further stuck with the reactions, I also noted an anger. A sort of telling myself of. It seems to go along with the resentment. The resentment that I have to do any of this. Any work at all. That life isn’t just easy.

Be friends with myself. Be gentle with myself. This will also be reflected onto others. If I am friends with myself and gentle with myself, then I can be so with others.

Look at the facts instead of what something is supposed to be or is not supposed to be.

Return to ‘I’ am ‘my’ feelings and ‘my’ feelings are ‘me’.

Is it simply a habit to break myself in two or is there some other underlying reason?
‘I’ am trying to “look” at ‘myself’. But I cannot. Like how I cannot look into my eyes.

I need a complete certainty of a PCE. I need to have another PCE.

What has made me come this far and to stick with actualism all of these years? What is this certainty I have with it?

After a day of reflecting and staying with it, the answer to why it is not all so easy is because I am holding onto the conditioning of resentment and bitterness that is coiled around naivete.

It had become clear how ‘I’ cannot change ‘myself’ by thinking it out but rather to ultimately feel something else (felicitous feelings). When I came back from my trip I noted a feeling of resentment when interacting with my partner. I started looking at my feelings and an allowing to feel my feelings with a fascinated intent. What was in the way of complete peace and harmony with my partner? The initial objection was that I would lose her if I continued. But I could quickly discard that notion as I didn’t really want that kind of relationship (which would only breed more resentment anyways). Then I thought about how could I go past this feeling. So I asked when the feeling was happening, am I expressing this feeling or repressing it? The answer was that I was repressing it by trying to ignore it, do something else, or trying to think about a way out. But if I tried to do the opposite then it seemed like I was expressing it. So I tried to do neither. The only way to do that was to stay with the feeling. The instinctual tendency perhaps is to do one or the other and go back and forth. Then as I tried to do neither, I started to get inklings of an answer. I see-sawed back and forth between being this feeling and then the seeing that it was ‘me’ in my entirety that was standing in the way of complete peace and harmony. This seeing has such a vast understanding and implication to it that my mind seems like it’s being turned upside down. One take away was also the seeing why it was all not so easy. Something I didn’t think perhaps I had but I have to ashamedly admit that I had been holding this entire time. Basically, I had been harboring the basic resentment of being alive this entire time. This seeing took the edge off the underlying feeling.

So I started reading up Richard’s correspondence on Resentment. I reflected on this initial question: “Can I emotionally accept that which is intellectually unacceptable?”. I actually don’t understand how something can be “intellectually unacceptable” or how it’s being used in this question. Is the lack of peace-on-earth intellectually unacceptable? I always saw it as emotionally unacceptable. But Richard writes:

Speaking personally, as a preliminary step twenty-odd years ago, I started to embrace each situation that life provided by emotionally welcoming, readily consenting to, receiving fully and unabashedly acknowledging every circumstance so as to find out, once and for all, just what was going on … and just what intelligence actually was.

So that is what I will try and maintain.

I continued the fascinated attention to the discomfort over the course of the week. Over time I started noticing that I was feeling more and more upset with the smallest of things that people did or how they behaved. Yesterday it went up to a crescendo of deep bitterness and encompassed everything. Every little thing people did (even unrelated to me) felt like a coil around my being. I experienced it as I wrote in my journal above as a “conditioning of resentment and bitterness that is coiled around naivete”. Then at the end of the day it just automatically eased up and that same discomfort was greatly diminished. The same night I experienced an elevated sensuousness. I was not even trying to do it, it just happened on its own.

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Yes - I think it is. How might you find the lack of peace-on-earth as emotionally acceptable while still being intellectually unacceptable?

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Chrono: Square one is the recognition of how ‘I’ am ‘my’ feelings and ‘my’ feelings are ‘me’. Because when you change how you feel by being a different feeling, there’s nothing to solve or think about.

Hi Chrono,

Let me insert a vital step before your “square one” – getting back to feeling good once you discover that your enjoyment and appreciation has diminished. Unless you are at least feeling good any thinking about/ investigation into your emotions will go round in circles.

Richard: What the identity inhabiting this flesh and blood body all those years ago would do is first get back to feeling good and then, and only then, suss out where, when, how, why – and what for – feeling bad happened as experience had shown ‘him’ that it was counter-productive to do otherwise.
What ‘he’ always did however, as it was often tempting to just get on with life then, was to examine what it was all about within half-an-hour of getting back to feeling good (while the memory was still fresh) even if it meant sometimes falling back into feeling bad by doing so … else it would crop up again sooner or later.
Nothing, but nothing, can be swept under the carpet. [Emphasis added]. (Richard, AF List, No. 68c, 31 May 2005).

Chrono: Yet I would still feel this literal discomfort in my head. Some deep tendency makes me almost tend towards splitting myself and trying to “work” on ‘myself’ this way. (…)

Your “literal discomfort” and “deep tendency” “towards splitting myself” would be because, unless getting back to feeling good, ‘I’ am (automatically) dissociating from my feelings in order “to ‘work’ on ‘myself’ this way”.

Chrono: Be friends with myself. Be gentle with myself. This will also be reflected onto others. If I am friends with myself and gentle with myself, then I can be so with others. (…)

Even though Richard used the word ‘gentle’ in the Audiotaped Dialogues, Silly or Sensible

R: This is a lot easier than that new-age one about not being judgemental. ‘I shouldn’t be judgemental!’ or ‘I’m always evaluating, judging everything and everyone’. This is a much more gentle way of being with oneself. Be kind to yourself – one needs all the help one can get and who is the best person to help you if not you yourself? [Emphasis added].

– he did not suggest that you “be gentle with” yourself. On the contrary, in many of his correspondences he emphasises that sincerity is the key to naiveté and sincerity requires that one be ruthlessly honest with oneself.

Respondent: … To pursue matters ‘ruthlessly’ may ‘do the trick’ but I think it produces a fanatic. [snip] In my personal experience I was taught by a therapist (who happened to be a Buddhist) to use the same method. Each session was spent reporting the results of my observations and exploring material as it emerged from my body in this moment. I learnt that every feeling I had could be observed in my body. We experimented with different ‘probes’ or intents if you will and turned up some primal material at times. I’d say that I explored some instinctual material but I don’t really know how to tell the difference from other material. My therapist recommended a gentle approach to observation. I used to get frustrated and want to ‘cut to the chase’ but I saw the results of my hard-headedness in a few interesting sessions. My gentle minded therapist was able to coax a trapped and extremely scared ‘child’ from the depths of my guts. The child was terrified of me and would only emerge when the therapist was around. Why was that? Because at the time I was a cold hearted brute to myself and my observational capacity was limited by that. My therapist believed that the quality and character of observation was as important as the content of the observation. There may well be a ‘cunning alien entity’ hijacking your bodily resources in a parasitical manner but it’s probably good to be aware that while you can smash the entity ruthlessly on the head, your goolies may be caught in its mandibles. :slight_smile: Ruthlessness is a good way to send material underground.
Richard: Here is what the word ‘ruthless’ means to me:
• ruthless [from ruth + -less.]: having no pity or compassion; pitiless, merciless. (Oxford Dictionary).
Where a Buddhist therapist recommends a ‘gentle approach to observation’ they would, more than likely, be advocating ‘metta’ (Pali for ‘loving-kindness’) and ‘karuna’ (Pali for ‘pity-compassion’) else they would not be in accord with the four fundamental Buddhist principles known as ‘brahma-vihara’ (divine-abidings) – the other two are ‘mudita’ (‘gladness at others’ success’) and ‘upekkha’ (‘onlooking equanimity’) – and needless is it to say that metta and/or karuna are as good a way as any for the cunning alien entity (an affective entity at root) to escape detection and survive to live yet another day in which to wreak its havoc in the world at large?
And in a similar vein here is what the words ‘pitiless’, ‘merciless’, and ‘relentless’ mean to me:
• pitiless [from pity + -less]: without compassion; showing no pity; merciless. (Oxford Dictionary).
• merciless [from mercy + -less]: without mercy; showing no mercy; pitiless, unrelenting. (Oxford Dictionary).
• relentless [from relent + -less]: incapable of relenting; pitiless; insistent and uncompromising. (Oxford Dictionary).
Anyone who asks themself, each moment again, how they are experiencing this moment of being alive – the only moment one is ever alive – whilst under the influence of ruth (compassion, pity; the feeling of sorrow for another) and/or pity (compassion, sympathy; clemency aroused by the suffering or misfortune of another) and/or mercy (disposition to forgive or show compassion) and/or relent (yield; give up a previous determination or obstinacy; become merciful/lenient, show mercy/pity; abate; slacken, relinquish, abandon) is surely just wasting their time … frittering away the opportunity of a lifetime on but more of the ‘Tried and Failed’ in yet another guise.
‘Tis not for nothing that the alien entity is described as ‘cunning’. (Richard, AF List, No. 56a, 10 Jan 2004a)

To be friends with yourself and abandon the habit of putting yourself down for any or all feelings and cunning ways of the identity you discover is vital – pat yourself on the back and appreciate what your dared to discover and acknowledge – but the words “be gentle” indicate hesitancy, guardedness, caution, yielding and treading lightly in the process of uncovering any aspect of the human condition in yourself (just like the Buddhistic therapist in the above correspondence).

Chrono: The only way to do that was to stay with the feeling. The instinctual tendency perhaps is to do one or the other and go back and forth. Then as I tried to do neither, I started to get inklings of an answer. I see-sawed back and forth between being this feeling and then the seeing that it was ‘me’ in my entirety that was standing in the way of complete peace and harmony. This seeing has such a vast understanding and implication to it that my mind seems like it’s being turned upside down. One take away was also the seeing why it was all not so easy. Something I didn’t think perhaps I had but I have to ashamedly admit that I had been holding this entire time. Basically, I had been harboring the basic resentment of being alive this entire time. This seeing took the edge off the underlying feeling.

The actualism method is epitomised by “the minimisation of both the malicious/ sorrowful feelings (the ‘bad’ feelings) and their antidotal loving/ compassionate feelings (the ‘good’ feelings) in concert with the maximisation of the felicitous/ innocuous feelings”, the only reason “to stay with the feeling” is when you have difficulty to comprehend “that to be living this moment – the only moment you are ever alive – by feeling bad is to be frittering away a vital opportunity to be fully alive …” (Richard, AF List, No. 79, 21 Jun 2005)

Now that you discovered that basic resentment is the reason that your feeling bad persisted you can begin to appreciate being here –

Richard: But one has to want to be here on this planet … most people resent being here and wish to escape. This method will bring one into being more fully here than anyone has ever been before. (Richard, List B, No. 19, 17 Mar 1998).

Chrono: So I started reading up Richard’s correspondence on Resentment. I reflected on this initial question: “Can I emotionally accept that which is intellectually unacceptable?”. I actually don’t understand how something can be “intellectually unacceptable” or how it’s being used in this question. Is the lack of peace-on-earth intellectually unacceptable? I always saw it as emotionally unacceptable. But Richard writes:

Richard: Speaking personally, as a preliminary step twenty-odd years ago, I started to embrace each situation that life provided by emotionally welcoming, readily consenting to, receiving fully and unabashedly acknowledging every circumstance so as to find out, once and for all, just what was going on … and just what intelligence actually was. (Richard, List B, James2, 20 Aug 2001).

Chrono: So that is what I will try and maintain.

For instance, murder is intellectually unacceptable, as are wars, domestic violence, child abuse and many other behaviours of feeling beings, and to intellectually accept those would be to insult/ compromise/ cripple one’s intelligence. Whereas, when one emotionally accepts that which is intellectually unacceptable then intelligence becomes apparent, is no longer being obscured by one’s feelings in the given situation.

The other hint ‘Vineeto’ found very useful was to put everything on a preference basis – ‘I’ preferred to be a situation or preferred a thing to be in a particular way but if it did not happen/ be that way it didn’t matter. It made unconditional enjoyment so much easier.

Chrono: I continued the fascinated attention to the discomfort over the course of the week. Over time I started noticing that I was feeling more and more upset with the smallest of things that people did or how they behaved. Yesterday it went up to a crescendo of deep bitterness and encompassed everything. Every little thing people did (even unrelated to me) felt like a coil around my being. I experienced it as I wrote in my journal above as a “conditioning of resentment and bitterness that is coiled around naivete”. Then at the end of the day it just automatically eased up and that same discomfort was greatly diminished. The same night I experienced an elevated sensuousness. I was not even trying to do it, it just happened on its own. (link)

Ha … I wonder if the “fascinated attention to the discomfort” – in the name of practicing the actualism method – contributed to the maintaining and continuing of the discomfort, when you could instead have gone back to feeling good before enquiring into the nature/ reason of your discomfort. Something to try next time.

I am pleased to hear that this period of discomfort eased up and you are able to experience “an elevated sensuousness” now, after you discovered its cause of the basic resentment to being here.

You may also find the following correspondence relevant, a discovery regarding a basic seriousness which stands in the way of enjoyment and naiveté –

Respondent: I came to this when I realized that I wasn’t steering directly for felicity a lot of the time; and that when I was steering for it, there was a limit to how much I could find. While looking for more of it, I became increasingly aware that seriousness and aching seemed to characterize a good deal of my experience. I had read many of your statements about being serious, such as how seriousness ‘actively works against peace-on-earth’ – and thought I was applying them, but I didn’t realize how much seriousness was there(1). (see more: Richard, AF List, No. 82 , 3 Jan 2006)

Cheers Vineeto

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Ah! I actually did need that reminder :sweat_smile:. Sometimes I get overwhelmed. Perhaps I have a tendency to more easily give weight and importance to negative feelings than felicitous feelings. They seem to have a more urgent feeling to them and perhaps even more ‘truth’ to them. It’s like once I am feeling good, then there’s really nothing to think about. There was really no reason to feel bad. It was all a self-fulfilling prophecy. I simply had indulged in them and perhaps the underlying resentment and seriousness gives rise to an obsessive urge or tendency to do something about it. And that in turn sustains the resentment and seriousness. The way I went about it though was misguided.

In this instance I was using the phrase “gentle with myself” to mean not telling myself off for not feeling good (which was counterproductive). I still maintain being insistent and uncompromising with myself albeit that quality was misplaced/misdirected.

I’d say it was because I had been going in circles feeling bad that I used the words “be gentle”. Since I hadn’t been making progress (due to not feeling good first and splitting myself instead), I thought perhaps it’s because I am just putting myself down too much. Of course all of that was not doing the actualism method and I had forgotten the vital step of getting back to feeling good first. I certainly see the ‘cunning’ part of the identity more now.

Then definitely the “fascinated attention to the discomfort” - in the name of practicing the actualism method - contributed to the maintaining and continuing of the discomfort. The only thing I would say is that this is extremely persistent, so much so that if I do return to feeling good and try to look into it, I fall back into the same feeling pattern.

Thinking on this basic seriousness led me to another layer connected to it that perhaps I hadn’t noticed before but it makes more sense now. It is this “Need to Belong”. Much of my malice and sorrow revolves around this and could be placed under this header. For example, with my partner and with many others, it feels as if I must feel bad when they feel bad or else I am not caring. It feels like there’s something very important here. I can feel the push and pull from this in all of my interactions. The relating with others is a shared malice and sorrow. If I don’t go along with this then it feels like I will be ostracized and alone. This feels like the source of my doubt in just being happy and harmless forever and feels like it is sourced in pure sorrow and loneliness. It’s like if this pull wasn’t there, then I could just enjoy life without any effort. As it’s from this direction there’s either seriousness or in the other direction which is naivete. Now here it really feels like that to pick naivete fully is to be completely foolish and this feeling is very strong. The pull of seriousness has all the backing of everyone I know and have ever known.

Maybe right now the only thing I can do is to keep returning to feeling good and come back to it again. Actually I just re-read my previous post and it looks like I am going in circles. It seems that this “debilitating doubt” and seriousness has come back full force.

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We currently have Sonya’s parents visiting us here in the UK. I work from home and my PC set up is in the living room where they are currently chilling out. When I woke up this morning I had this initial feeling/thought of “oh shit” - because it may not look particularly cool or glamorous when I am dealing with particularly difficult customers on the phone (as I work in customer service). They are rather successful career wise and I have very much always gone in the other direction or “making do” with my work situation.

Either way the point is that allowing this situation to pan out how it will is scary for ‘me’, there is no way to tell what they will think, how they will react etc Or maybe (what is more likely) it is all just a big furphy of ‘mine’. But the point is that I will not know the answer to this until I step into that unknown. That is I proceed naively and allow this thing to pan out how it will.

Perhaps something similar might be beneficial to your thing of “having to feel bad for the sake of others”, as in at some point it may be beneficial to dip your toes into that unknown and find out what will actually happen, you might be surprised. At the very least it will be a thrilling adventure to actually find out, rather than remaining in the prison cell of the hopes, fears, beliefs etc.

Update :

One of them is passed out and snoring on the sofa and the other is busy scrolling their phone, clearly neither of them are concerned with whatever ‘I’ had spun in ‘my’ head/heart :laughing:

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Vineeto: Let me insert a vital step before your “square one” – getting back to feeling good once you discover that your enjoyment and appreciation has diminished. Unless you are at least feeling good any thinking about/ investigation into your emotions will go round in circles.

Chrono: Ah! I actually did need that reminder. Sometimes I get overwhelmed. Perhaps I have a tendency to more easily give weight and importance to negative feelings than felicitous feelings. They seem to have a more urgent feeling to them and perhaps even more ‘truth’ to them. It’s like once I am feeling good, then there’s really nothing to think about. There was really no reason to feel bad. It was all a self-fulfilling prophecy. I simply had indulged in them and perhaps the underlying resentment and seriousness gives rise to an obsessive urge or tendency to do something about it. And that in turn sustains the resentment and seriousness. The way I went about it though was misguided.

Hi Chrono,

I am pleased that getting back to feeling good before any investigation worked for you.

Vineeto: – he did not suggest that you “be gentle with” yourself. On the contrary, in many of his correspondences he emphasises that sincerity is the key to naiveté and sincerity requires that one be ruthlessly honest with oneself.

Chrono: In this instance I was using the phrase “gentle with myself” to mean not telling myself off for not feeling good (which was counterproductive). I still maintain being insistent and uncompromising with myself albeit that quality was misplaced/ misdirected.

Vineeto: To be friends with yourself and abandon the habit of putting yourself down for any or all feelings and cunning ways of the identity you discover is vital – pat yourself on the back and appreciate what your dared to discover and acknowledge – but the words “be gentle” indicate hesitancy, guardedness, caution, yielding and treading lightly in the process of uncovering any aspect of the human condition in yourself (just like the Buddhistic therapist in the above correspondence).

Chrono: I’d say it was because I had been going in circles feeling bad that I used the words “be gentle”. Since I hadn’t been making progress (due to not feeling good first and splitting myself instead), I thought perhaps it’s because I am just putting myself down too much. Of course all of that was not doing the actualism method and I had forgotten the vital step of getting back to feeling good first. I certainly see the ‘cunning’ part of the identity more now.

Thank you for the clarification. Most likely you have, like most feeling beings, been brought up to put yourself down, blame yourself first when something unexpected happens and then “splitting myself instead”. It is vital to recognize such habitual reaction and decline it each time it inveigles itself again. Nothing which affective attentiveness cannot fix when replaced with a more fortuitous and fruitful habit of patting yourself on the back for noticing it each time you catch it (a habit is best replaced with something better when you want to extract yourself from a destructive habit).

Vineeto: The actualism method is epitomised by “the minimisation of both the malicious/ sorrowful feelings (the ‘bad’ feelings) and their antidotal loving/ compassionate feelings (the ‘good’ feelings) in concert with the maximisation of the felicitous/ innocuous feelings”, the only reason “to stay with the feeling” is when you have difficulty to comprehend “that to be living this moment – the only moment you are ever alive – by feeling bad is to be frittering away a vital opportunity to be fully alive …” (Richard, AF List, No. 79, 21 Jun 2005)

Chrono: Then definitely the “fascinated attention to the discomfort” – in the name of practicing the actualism method – contributed to the maintaining and continuing of the discomfort. The only thing I would say is that this is extremely persistent, so much so that if I do return to feeling good and try to look into it, I fall back into the same feeling pattern.

Indeed! The identity can be soo tricky when wanting to sell bad feelings as something virtuous, isn’t it.

Here I found an interesting snippet of conversation where Richard points out that the topic of tracking the feeling can change (without being noticed) –

Gary: I gave some thought as to whether I am ‘tracking’ the waking entity, and I think I am. I seem to go over the same emotions over and over again and the same repetitive thoughts until I give up the chase and relax, often to but take up the tracking the next day.
Richard: If it be not fun to track oneself in all of one’s doings then one might as well ‘give up the chase and relax’ … however what you describe as a modus operandi does not make sense to me (‘go over the same emotions over and over again and the same repetitive thoughts until I give up the chase and relax’).
To need to (and to be able to) ‘relax’ means there must be tension in the first place to relax from … thus the tracking down has changed from tracking down the ‘same emotions’ or the ‘same repetitive thoughts’ to tracking down the tension … and you did not notice that the game had changed horses in mid-stream. The need to ‘relax’ is a flashing red light that the game-play has changed: ‘when did this tension start?’; how did this tension begin?’; ‘what was the event that initiated this tension?’; ‘what were the feelings at the time?’; ‘what was the thought associated with that feeling?’ … and so on. Usually one has only to track back a few minutes or a few hours … yesterday afternoon at the most. Then one is free from both the tension and the ‘Tried and True’ cure of ‘relax’.
Speaking personally, I never relaxed in all those years of application and diligence, patience and perseverance … upon exposure to the bright light of awareness the tension always disappeared. (Richard, AF List, Gary, 28 Jan 2001)

Vineeto: You may also find the following correspondence relevant, a discovery regarding a basic seriousness which stands in the way of enjoyment and naiveté – (snipped: Richard, AF List, No. 82, 3 Jan 2006)

Chrono: Thinking on this basic seriousness led me to another layer connected to it that perhaps I hadn’t noticed before but it makes more sense now. It is this “Need to Belong”. Much of my malice and sorrow revolves around this and could be placed under this header. For example, with my partner and with many others, it feels as if I must feel bad when they feel bad or else I am not caring. It feels like there’s something very important here. I can feel the push and pull from this in all of my interactions. The relating with others is a shared malice and sorrow. If I don’t go along with this then it feels like I will be ostracized and alone. This feels like the source of my doubt in just being happy and harmless forever and feels like it is sourced in pure sorrow and loneliness. It’s like if this pull wasn’t there, then I could just enjoy life without any effort. As it’s from this direction there’s either seriousness or in the other direction which is naiveté. Now here it really feels like that to pick naiveté fully is to be completely foolish and this feeling is very strong. The pull of seriousness has all the backing of everyone I know and have ever known.
Maybe right now the only thing I can do is to keep returning to feeling good and come back to it again. Actually I just re-read my previous post and it looks like I am going in circles. It seems that this “debilitating doubt” and seriousness has come back full force. (link)

I remember ‘Vineeto’ in her first year of actualism noticed a similar pattern in her socializing – whenever ‘she’ had conversations with ‘her’ then-friends they were complaining about life and the world and looking for sympathy and confirmation. ‘Vineeto’ soon reduced and finally abandoned those ‘friendships’ because there was simply no enjoyment to be gained in their company. At times you cannot have it both ways, leaving the real world and be accepted/ applauded by its denizen.

However what Kuba said in this recent post to you (link) is also possible on some occasions. It requires that, by liking yourself and the way of life you have chosen – persistently feeling good or better and being harmless – that you decline believing their set of social standards and hierarchical values and thus decline to give them the power to doubt yourself because of it. It’s in your hands, not theirs how you choose to live your life.

Richard: It was inside the first few weeks, actually, of putting into action what was startlingly evident in the four-hour pure consciousness experience (PCE) which had finally provided the direction my otherwise following-the-herd way of living was singularly lacking (although there was a six-month incubation period between the PCE and the application thereof).
I distinctly recall informing my then-wife at the time that I had ‘done it their way’, for 34 years and to no avail, and that it was high-time I did it my way (and when she asked what way that was I said that I did not know but that it would become progressively apparent with each step I took). [Emphases added]. (Richard, AF List, No. 60g, 30 Oct 2005b).

Cheers Vineeto

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Just watched Geoffrey’s video that he shared a while back and something he said in there really helped me right now. It’s essentially that “good” investigation is just seeing what’s preventing me from feeling good right now. There’s no need to get any more complex. I mean I know this has been written many times before and the words are right there in front of my face but hearing it really clicked for me. Because I can basically “investigate” forever and I will always find problems (or create them). So in the context of my discomfort and investigating the discomfort, it is the same thing. So what is preventing me right now from feeling good? It’s basically trying to “do” something to feel good. So simple! I have a tendency to complicate things. Also might be related to how I’ve learned throughout my life to be “sophisticated”. If it’s not difficult, then I’m not doing something right. It became the measure (internally) of if I’m doing something properly. Now it’s like the opposite. If it’s not easy, then something is amiss.

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