"Allowing it to Happen" is not a Back-seat Approach

[claudiu]

On June 13th I wrote to Vineeto:

CLAUDIU: Today was an odd day – the level of appreciation and purity I experienced has been less than other days and my experience has been at times more like how ‘I’ would normally be. However this came with the sincerity of seeing that ‘I’ really do have to actually give ‘myself’ up for this to happen. Ceasing to be me is exactly what self-immolation is. As I write this now I can say I have no doubts that this is sincerely what I want to do.

Soon after, Vineeto published the Excerpts of All-pervading Sweetness, and as I read them on June 14th I experienced again the ambrosial magicality – and then I saw where I had been going wrong!

As I wrote on that post:

CLAUDIU: After reading them, I tentatively answer my question (Claudiu’s Journal - #149 by claudiu ) of “What is needed to proceed though? ”

With the answer: find the thread to and allow that “all-pervading sweetness”, then, knowing it will lead to my demise, continue to allow it, more and more, to fill me fuller and further until that seamless transition between two worlds occurs once and for all!

Vineeto’s response to this on June 15 was:

VINEETO: I just re-read your entry on the Discuss Actualism Forum answering your own question and YES!, that’s it. That is what Vineeto did (despite the interruption by ‘her’ mutiny) - folling the overwhelming sweetness and tenderness all the way to ‘her’ manumission.

My response to her response was:

CLAUDIU: Yes! After I wrote it I went on a plane (traveling to Romania) and it became clear that the key is to go absolutely all out , put all efforts into doing this / allowing it to happen — which is done not by ‘pushing’ but by allowing that ambrosial sweetness !!

The mistake I made that got me to normal was in thinking I have to not put effort into it at all but “let it happen” — however such a backseat approach doesn’t deliver the goods

The latter part of the plane ride I experienced a heightened magical sweetness that was more than at any other point in my life. I recognize it is of the same exact quality as I saw in your and Richard’s living room many years ago, but much more stable now as I didn’t pull back so quickly this time

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To re-iterate then, the issue I had made is that I started feeling that the only “sincere” [sic!] thing to do is to not put any effort or engagement or energy at all into becoming free, that any sort of energy put into it would be “insincere” [sic!] somehow, and that the only thing to do was to “naturally” allow ‘myself’ to gravitate back to feeling good or going towards the magicality etc – in other words, a back-seat approach.

However that quickly resulted in me getting further away from that magical way of being, and in hindsight it is obvious why. The point is that yes, you must indeed put all energy possible into this! The key is that a “pushing” type of energy is not what will deliver the goods, but an active engagement, committment, and going all-out, is absolutely what is required, and it appears to be what brings me to experiencing that tintling appreciation and allows it to continue and flourish.

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The following that Vineeto wrote to me on June 15th, after receiving my “odd day” email, also serves as corroboration for the above:

VINEETO: I can understand that the level of appreciation and purity waxes and wanes, as if ‘you’ want to return to the default position of feeling neutral as described in Richard’s copied article from Sonja Lyubomirsky (link). I do appreciate your sincerity, it makes it so much easier.

The only way to counteract this falling back will be if you make the deliberate decision, when feeling excellent and experiencing pure intent comes along, to commit to living out-from-under-control from then onwards. When ‘Vineeto’ got out-from-under-control after many ‘ums and ahs’ it was delicious but a few days later ‘she’ fell out of it and accepted this as a matter of course. But Richard didn’t. When ‘she’ told him about it, he said jokingly something to the effect of “stand in the corner until you are back into out-from-under-control”!

So post-haste ‘Vineeto’ invited Peter into the bedroom and after some delicious intimacy soon was back where ‘she’ had been, and then was more watchful and determined to in fact stay out-from-under-control. It worked. It does need your active and decisive input - until an actual freedom happens, then you can’t fall back.

I particularly appreciated reading this part as it shows that what the forum-goers are experiencing now appears to be par for the course!

VINEETO: When ‘Vineeto’ got out-from-under-control after many ‘ums and ahs’ it was delicious but a few days later ‘she’ fell out of it and accepted this as a matter of course. But Richard didn’t. When ‘she’ told him about it, he said jokingly something to the effect of “stand in the corner until you are back into out-from-under-control”!

She also wrote the following to re-iterate her advice which is that as a next step or ‘gear’, to commit to being out-from-control – which I now understand to be to no longer fall below the baseline of actively experiencing and engagedly allowing that ambrosial magicality to become increasingly apparent – rather than attempting to self-immolate directly:

VINEETO: I will also comment on the question you sent to the forum last night (my time), perhaps you find it useful.

Claudiu: Claudiu's Journal - #148 by Kub933

What is needed to take the final step?

A few days ago it happened not once but twice on that same day that my experience of the fine and ambrosial appreciation increased and somehow ‘my’ being began to warp and/or pulsate along with it. There was a very distinct understanding that this could be it (ie self-immolation), but I pulled back!

VINEETO: Ha, I remember well when that happened the first time, at Richard’s kitchen table :)). You have been fatally attracted for a long time.

I think my first paragraph goes some way to answer that question - taking it step by step will be helpful, notching it up a gear (out-from-control) rather than taking the full jump approach. I just revisited Richard’s correspondence with on the difference between an EE and being out-from-control from August 15 2016 (link). in other words -

[Richard]: “The vital distinction is the overarching benignity and benevolence inherent to infinitude – which has nothing to do with any affective felicity and innocuity – being dynamically operative due to the cheerful and thus willing concurrence of the beer.” [emphasis added].

CLAUDIU: I pull back every time — I suppose that’s the nature of it, every time but the last time one will pull back. What is needed to proceed though?

VINEETO: Each time this pulling back happens, take note what the objection/fear is this time, it may be a different one each time. “Pushing” will not help and only gets ‘your’ heckles up - you can be very gentle and simply be pulled forward by the experienced “ambrosial appreciation” and overarching benignity of the universe.

Become more and more friends with ‘me’ in that ‘I’ agree on more and more points that ‘I’ am indeed redundant to the stage where ‘I’ joyously acquiesce to lay down ‘my’ burden (it is indeed experienced as a burden) and fullfill ‘my’ deep-down yearning to finally go into oblivion.

When there is no objection left there is only joyous anticipation and no fear at all.

[Kub933]

This is really fascinating stuff, thanks for sharing! it’s exactly the kind of points that have been on my mind also. This problem of ‘pushing’ only solidifying ‘me’ further but then again sitting back and waiting for it all to happen by itself being the backseat approach.
So what is the third alternative here? It seems one needs to push forward but not in the normal terms this is understood in.
It somewhat reminds me of performing techniques in parkour or BJJ, where if ‘I’ try to desperately push the thing ‘I’ actually get in the way by getting all emotional about it. Yet it is not about ‘me’ doing absolutely nothing, as then ‘I’ am still halting the works but by adopting this new mantra of ‘not trying’.

I like the advice to get to excellence and then actively commit to remaining there indefinitely, so in this way ‘I’ am pushing ‘myself’ but not in the normal terms of getting all emotional. The ‘pushing’ is ‘my’ ongoing (and active) commitment to allowing perfection and purity.

I also like the last bit that Vinneto wrote and these have been my exact thoughts lately :

Become more and more friends with ‘me’ in that ‘I’ agree on more and more points that ‘I’ am indeed redundant to the stage where ‘I’ joyously acquiesce to lay down ‘my’ burden (it is indeed experienced as a burden) and fullfill ‘my’ deep-down yearning to finally go into oblivion.
When there is no objection left there is only joyous anticipation and no fear at all.

As I wrote :

Claudiu's Journal

I wonder to what extent it has to do with being fully done with reality, as in not having anything at all left that could pull one back, not the slightest ‘oh but’. Which is the same as giving all of oneself over to actuality, being fully committed to proceed towards the new and having nothing at all that keeps one holding onto the old. I find myself kind of hovering on that stage, like there is almost nothing left, but that ‘something’ no matter how small, is enough. Although there is movement…

I also find this aligns with what I have been considering today, about fully ‘being’ ones feelings (Kub933's Journal - #1076 by Kub933), allowing ‘myself’ to - “Become more and more friends with ‘me’ in that ‘I’ agree on more and more points that ‘I’ am indeed redundant to the stage where ‘I’ joyously acquiesce to lay down ‘my’ burden”.

Also this is probably just my own antics but I no longer see Vinneeto how I did in the past, it’s like this whole layer of projections I was placing on her have been removed.

[Kub933]

So to summarise, what needs to happen is the below :

@claudiu

find the thread to and allow that “all-pervading sweetness”, then, knowing it will lead to my demise, continue to allow it, more and more, to fill me fuller and further until that seamless transition between two worlds occurs once and for all!

However until all objections have been resolved, one will pull back at some point, back to ‘normal’. This is until the objections are genuinely resolved, then there is only going forward into oblivion.

So get to excellence and commit to remaining there, then take note of what it is that pulled me back to ‘normal’ this time, until nothing remains. This reminds me of Srinath’s report of becoming free, “revving it up and then revving it some more”.

[jamesjjoo]

My take from this is at the end where Vineeto says " When there is no objection left there is only joyous anticipation and no fear at all".