… (Andrew posted a video about empathy)
The actual quote given later in this exchange: Can I emotionally accept that which is intellectually unacceptable? This way intelligence need not be compromised … intelligence will no longer be crippled.
A problem is real-life goals and values. I was thinking that maybe if I changed those goals and values than I’d have more success. Valuing happy and harmlessness as a virtue to be proud of might help.
I did not know that. Asking more questions and good questions is very helpful. It prevents one from falling into rabbit holes and jumping to conclusions. You can review this particular very unfortunate footnote of the 2020 election by looking up Harrison Deal and Mario Demaine Clark.
Back to the better part of our conversation. I feel a renewal lately. At 48, I am experiencing a mid-life crisis. It is too late for me to be a family man and a successful professional or businessman. It seems taking pride in always being mirthful and never feeling pressured takes the sting away from missing out on having kids and not having a big network of friends or enough luxury money to travel on the drop of a dime or just completely retire right now if I wanted. Without that sting, which can cause some gloominess, it is easier to feel blithesome.
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Vineeto: Why make it so complicated as if it were a duty to “cultivate a sense of being behooved to be happy and harmless for myself”? The straightforward question is – do you want to feel good? You know that is feels good to feel good, so where is the problem? And that in itself is worth contemplating.
Jon: A problem is real-life goals and values. I was thinking that maybe if I changed those goals and values than I’d have more success. Valuing happy and harmlessness as a virtue to be proud of might help.
Hi Jon,
So you are presently assessing if doing something about peace-on-earth via actualism is a worthwhile goal in life for you?
Vineeto: Btw, did you know that Raffensperger was coerced to hold back the votes – his son-in-law was killed in a “mysterious” car accident exactly at that time and the guilty driver never brought to justice. These guys play for keeps!
Jon: I did not know that. Asking more questions and good questions is very helpful. It prevents one from falling into rabbit holes and jumping to conclusions. You can review this particular very unfortunate footnote of the 2020 election by looking up Harrison Deal and Mario Demaine Clark.
Thank you for the tip. I looked up what I could find. It seems that my memory wasn’t accurate. It was his son who was killed. I have for now lost interest in watching current affairs – the situation is always dire. 
Jon: Back to the better part of our conversation. I feel a renewal lately. At 48, I am experiencing a mid-life crisis. It is too late for me to be a family man and a successful professional or businessman. It seems taking pride in always being mirthful and never feeling pressured takes the sting away from missing out on having kids and not having a big network of friends or enough luxury money to travel on the drop of a dime or just completely retire right now if I wanted. Without that sting, which can cause some gloominess, it is easier to feel blithesome. (link)
Well, if pride is the source of your ‘blithesomeness’ then with this motivation only, actualism is not for you – the actualism method is designed to diminish all ‘good’ and bad feelings in order to experience the felicitous and innocuous feelings. Pride is a ‘good’ feeling, whilst hurt pride or unfulfilled pride leads to feeling bad.
I recommend Richard’s article “Peace on Earth in this Life-Time” (link) as an introduction for what actualism is about, and perhaps other of Richard’s articles, or even read Richard’s journal, before you make such a life-changing decision.
Cheers Vineeto
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Hi Vineeto,
His son died in 2018 (if memory serves) of an OD (if memory serves).
Emphasis added. How blithe could the feeling be if pride was any part of it’s source? Maybe none. Idk. Maybe a tad. Not sure. But if pride was a motivating factor into resetting so as to allow happiness and harmless then is that not a different story?
Noted.
Will do.
Tx,
Jon
Vineeto: I recommend Richard’s article “Peace on Earth in this Life-Time”
(snipped by Jon: “as an introduction for what actualism is about, and perhaps other of Richard’s articles (Richard, Articles, Index), or even read Richard’s journal (Downloads), before you make such a life-changing decision”.)
Jon: Will do.
Hi Jon,
A waited a couple of days before my reply to give you time to read, digest and perhaps comment on Richard’s articles I had recommended.
Vineeto: Well, if pride is the source of your ‘blithesomeness’ then with this motivation only
Jon: Emphasis added. How blithe could the feeling be if pride was any part of its source? Maybe none. Idk. Maybe a tad. Not sure. But if pride was a motivating factor into resetting so as to allow happiness and harmless then is that not a different story?
Here is the full text of what I said –
Vineeto: Well, if pride is the source of your ‘blithesomeness’ then with this motivation only actualism is not for you – the actualism method is designed to diminish all ‘good’ and bad feelings in order to experience the felicitous and innocuous feelings. Pride is a ‘good’ feeling, whilst hurt pride or unfulfilled pride leads to feeling bad.
You clearly said that you want to “cultivate a sense of being behooved to be happy and harmless” and “valuing happy and harmlessness as a virtue to be proud of might help”. (link)
Perhaps a re-read of the correspondence Richard had with you about pride 13 years ago might assist in understanding. Richard explains in intricate detail the difference in progress regarding consciousness versus progress in materialistic success. (Heavily edited for brevity) –
JONATHAN: … but it his [Richard’s] point about patting yourself on the back which is most pertinent here.
RICHARD: The following is a quote which will serve to illustrate just what it is you are referring to.
Viz.: (…)
JONATHAN: He [Richard] said that feeling beings inner dialogue is quite self-critical.
RICHARD: The following is a quote which will serve to illustrate just what it is you are referring to.
Viz.: (…)
The following (quite lengthy) quote is particularly informative vis-a-vis both this and related issues.
Viz.: (Audiotaped Dialogues, Silly or Sensible)
JONATHAN: So it is a very good idea to pat yourself on the back whenever it will promote felicity or get you feeling excellent so you can move on to wide eyed wonder.
RICHARD: No, what is a very good idea (to use your phrasing) is to pat yourself on the back whenever you succeed in finding out just what it is which is preventing this moment of being alive – the only moment you are ever actually alive – from being lived at its optimum.
In doing so you get to find out how you operate and function (just what it is that makes you ‘tick’ as it were) each moment again.
JONATHAN: So if you are a salesman and just made a big sale, pat yourself on the back with the aim of increasing your current happiness so you can on move to feeling excellent and then to wide eyed wonder.
RICHARD: No, I neither said that nor anything of that nature (I am clearly talking of success, no matter how slight it may be, regarding consciousness and not in regards to materialistic success).
JONATHAN: That is what I took from his comments though I have a history of not understanding his words all that well.
RICHARD: This is as good an opportunity as any to drive home the point I made to [No. 25], (…), inasmuch the words I spoke to you were, essentially, a verbal reiteration of what is already freely available on The Actual Freedom Trust website.
(…)
JONATHAN: In trying to research the site, I find that Peter has a chapter on pride in which he admonishes the feeling.
RICHARD: Maybe, just maybe, feeling-being ‘Peter’ took note of what Richard had to say about pride and examined it for ‘himself’ so as to ascertain whether it be true or not, eh?
JONATHAN: Yet Richard highly recommends ‘patting yourself on the back.’
RICHARD: What Richard highly recommends is being pleased (aka ‘patting oneself on the back’) whenever you succeed in finding out just what it is which is preventing this moment of being alive – the only moment you are ever actually alive – from being lived at its optimum.
JONATHAN: This isn’t a contradiction.
RICHARD: Oh, yes it is.
JONATHAN: They both agree.
RICHARD: They both agree about being pleased (aka ‘patting oneself on the back’) – not about feeling proud – at success, no matter how slight it may be, regarding consciousness.
JONATHAN: In fact, Peter’s last words to me were ‘pat yourself on the back once in a while.’
RICHARD: Aye, but those last words of his were not in regards to feeling proud.
JONATHAN: So ferreting out how the two ideas do not contradict each other is an excellent spot to learn more about the site.
RICHARD: In which case I will leave you with the following quote to mull over as it is but one example of what I have to say about pride (and its companion-in-arms humility).
Viz.:
• [Richard]: (…). Personally I have no humility whatsoever and, of course, neither am I proud. In order to be free of the Human Condition one needs to see the place pride and humility plays in one’s life. ‘I’ am proud of ‘my’ major achievement – which is maintaining ‘myself’ as an identity – and ‘I’ will do anything but relinquish ‘my’ grip on this flesh-and-blood body … including humbling ‘myself’ before some God in order to ameliorate the pernicious effects of pride. However, humility is merely the antidote to pride … and they feed off each other, continuously.
For example, one cannot but feel proud of one’s accomplishment of self-abasing humility … it is in the nature of the entity to do so. A humbled self is still a self, nonetheless, leaving one proud of one’s performance. When one realises how silly all this is; when one sees that pride and humility are standing in the way of freedom from all self-centred activity, something astounding occurs. The opposites vanish. I am simply here where I have always been … and pride, with its companion in arms, humility, has disappeared along with all the other feelings.
I am free to be here now in the world as-it-is. Unadorned and unencumbered, I can stand on my own two feet, owing allegiance to no-one. (Richard, AF List, No. 4, 9 Jan 1999).
[Emphases added]. (Richard, List D, Jonathan, 4 Aug 2013)
I added the emphases because I noticed your tendency to summarize what you read only at a glance, which more often than not leads to you not comprehending of what is being conveyed. When wanting to understand about a brand-new paradigm in human consciousness, an actual freedom from the human condition, quick summaries are useless because you merely paste the template of materialism/ spiritualism over what you read. Such incorrect summaries rather signify a lack of vital interest.
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Vineeto: actualism is not for you
Jon: Noted.
It is interesting that even your terse answer points to your modus operandi, your technique – and I didn’t need to look far where this “noted” originates from –
JONATHAN: From what I can recall, Richard’s view of the buddha is not in the mainstream. As I understand it, the view that Gautama believed in a universal self is held by a significant minority of scholars. But the mainstream believes that Gautama and the bhagavad gita were on to two different points of views. Because Richard is with the minority, he doesn’t speak of emptiness ever. (I found a definition of it in the AFT and I found a page referencing Zen but I haven’t found anything on emptiness as the pragmatic dharma crowd speaks of it.) My question is. Is emptiness as the dho and kfd folks talk of it a feeling? When those folks speak of emptiness and r. speaks of Being with a captial B, are they talking of the same thing? (Message 162xx, 19 Jan 2014, Subject: Emptiness)
Richard then went into great detail to explain to you the difference between the “‘Noting/ Mahasi Style’/ ‘Goenka Vipassana’” practiced by the Affers in DhO and an actual freedom from the human condition –
RICHARD: (…)
Fifth, the reason why you did not find anything in my portion of The Actual Freedom Trust website on [quote] ‘emptiness as the pragmatic dharma crowd speaks of it’ [endquote] is because what they speak of is the result of the presently-popular but controversial sukkhavipassaka practice (what is known colloquially as the ‘Dry Burmese Vipassana’, as in ‘Noting/ Mahasi Style’ and ‘Goenka Vipassana’, for instance) and which is more akin to the much-diluted modern-day ‘Neo-Advaita’ form of secularised/ westernised nondualism than anything else.
I have written about my degree of interest in that practice on this very forum.
Viz. (emphasis in the original):
#12054
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2012 10:47:49 -0000
From: Richard
Subject: Re: it is impossible to marry Actualism and Buddhism
• [Richard]: […snip…].
• [Respondent No. 32]: This is why I wish there can be a direct dialogue between you and some of the accomplished Buddhist teachers..
• [Richard]: I have no interest whatsoever in a dialogue with accomplished *sectarian* Buddhist teachers – and especially not any such teachers of sukkhavipassaka – as the buddhaghosavacana [‘the word/ teaching of Buddhaghosa’] is too far removed from the buddhavacana [‘the word/ teaching of Buddha’] for any meaningful discussion. […]. (Richard, List D, No. 32, 21 Dec 2012).
To explain: that sectarian ‘ditthi’/ ‘drsti’ (i.e., ‘wrong view; theory, doctrine, system’) already mentioned – institutionalised by all those unawakened/ unenlightened practitioners, commentators, translators, scholars/ pundits, and so on, as the anatta/ anatma doctrine – has reified (reify = ‘to consider an abstract concept to be real’) and/or hypostatised (hypostatise = ‘to construe as a real existence, of a conceptual entity’) an otherwise simple expression which essentially means what the English word devoid conveys (devoid = without, sans, free from, completely lacking or wanting in, bereft of, empty of, deficient in, denuded of, barren of; destitute or void of) into being an (affectively) subjective ‘thing-in-itself’, so to speak, as in some kind of a metaphysical ‘emptiness’ and/or a timeless-spaceless-formless ‘void’ beyond all reckoning.
*
Having attended to all the points in your preamble your question can now be addressed as-is. (Richard, List D, Jonathan, 25 Jan 2014)
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Vineeto: actualism is not for you
Jon: Noted. (link)
Your ‘noting’ has left out my explanation for the reason why actualism is not for you, so I will expand in a summary of our conversation for your further understanding –
Last week you were suggesting one should accept “shit like this”, “an unacceptable world as it is …” because that is your quick-and-dirty ‘noting’ summary of Richard’s suggestion to put things on an ‘it-doesn’t-really-matter’ basis. When I presented Richard’s exact quote you asked me –
**Jon: **How is that not close to what I said? It is better though. It would be beneficial to go and search what he exactly said. thank you. (link)
Also, you informed me that you were contemplating to “cultivate a sense of being behooved to be happy and harmless for myself and to show to others that it’s possible then I think that’s a good life goal” (link) because –
Jon: A problem is real-life goals and values. I was thinking that maybe if I changed those goals and values than I’d have more success. Valuing happy and harmlessness as a virtue to be proud of might help. (…)
I feel a renewal lately. At 48, I am experiencing a mid-life crisis. It is too late for me to be a family man and a successful professional or businessman. It seems taking pride in always being mirthful and never feeling pressured takes the sting away from missing out on having kids and not having a big network of friends or enough luxury money to travel on the drop of a dime or just completely retire right now if I wanted. Without that sting, which can cause some gloominess, it is easier to feel blithesome. (link)
It seems to me that those lengthy explanatory correspondences with Richard in 2013 and 2014 have had no lasting impact – perhaps they went right over your head. You still value pride – “taking pride in always being mirthful” – and say that your aim is to gain “a virtue to be proud of”, and wonder if actualism can assist you in cultivating this virtue. Here is a definitions of what are considered the highest of all virtues –
Richard: • [quote]: ‘Brahmavihara’ (Sanskrit: ‘living in the Brahman-Heaven’), in Buddhist philosophy, the four noble practices of mental development through which men can attain subsequent rebirth in the Brahman Heaven. These four practices are: (1) perfect virtue of sympathy, which gives happiness to living beings (Sanskrit: maitri; Pali: metta); (2) perfect virtue of compassion, which removes pain from living beings (karuna); out of karuna the bodhisattva postpones entrance into Nirvana to work for the salvation of others; (3) perfect virtue of joy, the enjoyment of the sight of others who have attained happiness (mudita); (4) perfect virtue of equanimity, being free from attachment to everything and being indifferent to living beings (Sanskrit: upeksa; Pali: upekkha). These are also called the four Apramanas (infinite feelings), since these four practices give happiness to infinite living beings’. [Emphasis added]. (Encyclopaedia Britannica)
In short, your stated goal is a typical ‘self’-enhancing goal of being blithesome in order to be proud, and proud in order to be blithesome. Isn’t this the same as what the Affers did in 2010, bastardising some of the actualism techniques into gaining prestige amongst their peers? (see Latest Public Announcement, Addendum6).
Should your interest in life, the universe and what it is to be a human being, ever expands into a persistent and vital interest in being happy and harmless because it makes sense to you to do that, let me know. Or, in short, for your convenience –
>Richard: • (Distilled précis for No. 25: Peace-on-earth is nice). (Richard, List B, No. 25, 29 May 1999).
Needless to say this would entail fully abandoning the Mahasi-style Affer-method of ‘noting’ and turning around 180 degrees (see Richard, List D, Claudiu, 7 Feb 2012).
It is impossible to marry Actualism and Buddhism.
Cheers Vineeto
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thank you,
you clearly took a lot of time and I appreciate that. I will look over all that you said. I do think you are misunderstanding me. Linking my use of the phrase ‘noted’ to vipassana practices is funny to me. I will, though, keep that in mind just in case you are on to something.
And when i wrote those other things you quoted, my mind was actually referencing something you said on this forum: It was about intentionally adopting an actualist identity. But, though I don’t remember you specifying, I read it to mean it as a positive helpful thing, which I think is worth the distinction, because, a lot of actualist identities are negative unhelpful things. Trying to change others or trying to establish a position in some imaginary hierarchy, for instances. Those are both negative and unhelpful.
Certainly you didn’t mean those things but maybe you never said or wrote the specific things I am remembering, which were about feeling good about yourself for trying to be happy and harmless. More in the vein of patting yourself on the back for doing something, the best thing even, that one can do while still a feeling-being, about the human condition.
At any rate, I look forward to reading what you have coached me to read. It will be new to me for I tend to regard the actualism method as a real simple thing and no study is really required. Allow yourself to be happy and harmless now. Everything else are like the reasons to do it, the common barriers one encounters and tips to overcome them. But when I don’t desire to be happy, I also don’t desire to study why I should be happy. And when I do desire to be happy then I just allow it. And sometimes those states fluctuate back and forth quite rapidly.
All of this I am writing merely to thank you for the coaching or the guidance. And to let you know I’ll be taking it to heart even if I don’t reply. And now, after re-reading and making some edits to aid the reader, I’ll read some of Richard’s journal before bed, which is not something I typically do. So I can thank you for that motivation.
Much obliged,
jon
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Jon: Thank you,
you clearly took a lot of time and I appreciate that. I will look over all that you said. I do think you are misunderstanding me. Linking my use of the phrase ‘noted’ to vipassana practices is funny to me. I will, though, keep that in mind just in case you are on to something.
Hi Jon,
Thank you for your appreciation and explanatory feedback. Now that you say “linking my use of the phrase ‘noted’ to vipassana practices is funny to me” it could well be a misunderstanding on my part. Vipassana and this noting technique were very common amongst people interested in actualism and since you had asked Richard a question about what “the pragmatic dharma crowd speaks of” I understood you were quite familiar with it as well. Have you ever practiced Vipassana or Mahasi-style ‘noting’ some years ago, or was your wording “noted” merely part of the modern vocabulary that passed me by?
Jon: And when I wrote those other things you quoted, my mind was actually referencing something you said on this forum: It was about intentionally adopting an actualist identity. But, though I don’t remember you specifying, I read it to mean it as a positive helpful thing, which I think is worth the distinction, because, a lot of actualist identities are negative unhelpful things. Trying to change others or trying to establish a position in some imaginary hierarchy, for instances. Those are both negative and unhelpful.
Ah, it’s good to be are aware that an ‘actualist identity’ can be “both negative and unhelpful”.
Jon: Certainly you didn’t mean those things but maybe you never said or wrote the specific things I am remembering, which were about feeling good about yourself for trying to be happy and harmless. More in the vein of patting yourself on the back for doing something, the best thing even, that one can do while still a feeling-being, about the human condition.
I found the instance you may be referring to –
Vineeto to Roy: It’s natural given the human impulse to congregate with like-minded people, and this in itself is nothing wrong. As long as you are an identity, to be an actualist is the most felicitous and most harmless identity you can be. The only trap to look out for is loyalty.
I remember an incident where ‘Vineeto’ had inadvertently developed a loyalty for ‘actualists’ – I put actualists in scare-quotes because a practising actualist is learning to more and more stand on their own feet. Sometime around 2000 one correspondent to the mailing list registered a domain name “www.actualfreedom.com” for trolling purposes and ‘Vineeto’ became worried that this would sully the Actual Freedom Trust website and confuse readers. Richard had no concerns and pointed out to ‘her’ that 1) there was no danger of confusion because the AFT domain name had an “.au” at the end of its domain name, and 2) indicated that ‘Vineeto’ was succumbing to the typical fears associated with belonging to a group, whilst also saying that as long as you are an identity to be an ‘actualist’ is quite a happy and harmless identity to choose. Nevertheless, ‘Vineeto’ kept an eye out after that, not to fall into the trap of belonging or worrying. [Emphasis added]. (Actualvineeto, Roy2, 18 Jun 2025).
However, it turned out there is more to watch out for when one identifies as an actualist, as Felix discovered –
Felix: It seems my Achilles heel or a habit has been to want to “override” the whole process by aiming to feel good in an ambitious way, whilst trying to push down or control the seemingly malevolent/ perverse feeling being that is scuppering my efforts. Quite cunning eh.
Vineeto: Well, you found yourself out – one cunning trick disarmed now that you know about it. You’ll discover more – it’s the nature of ‘me’ to hide behind the most noble causes, and especially pretend-actualist causes, I noticed. But whenever you ask yourself if this or that strategy is really on your, the actual body’s side, you’ll find that it is not, even if the cover story pretends to be. Anything that is sudorific, anything that creates stress or anxiety can never be on your side. (Actualvineeto, Felix, 24 Dec 2024).
In other words, ‘I’, the identity, will use any trick in the book, including labelling ‘me’ an ‘actualist’, to turn this into a tool with which to either put oneself down or have a tribal fight of loyalty of ‘us’ versus ‘them’. This happens when one turns being an actualist into a moral or ethical dictate/ principle of belonging, or being/becoming a laudable persona.
Felix came to this conclusion for himself –
Felix: Cutting out a lot of the actualist identity stuff has helped – it’s made me a beginner again but that’s also a blessing as real change is happening. (17 Jan 2025)
As such, when one puts sincerity first, it will be easier to discover such manoeuvring and get back to being happy and harmless in practice, rather than “valuing happy and harmlessness as a virtue to be proud of”. (link)
A feeling being is bound to acquire one or several identities as an automatic survival strategy, but to put stock into it being “a virtue to be proud of” from the start is bound to lead you astray before you even begin. Hence my quoting what Richard said to you about pride in 2013.
Here is what Geoffrey had to say about an acquired ‘actualist identity’ –
>Richard: I am full of admiration for the ‘me’ that dared to do such a thing. I owe all that I experience now to ‘me’. I salute ‘my’ audacity. (Richard’s Journal, Appendix 3, p. 282).**
Geoffrey:** “Who is that ‘me’, if not humanity?
‘I’ am humanity. And as such, ‘my’ destiny can be achieved.
“Pleasant and wholesome” could become a refuge, a hiding place, for an individual ‘I’, a special ‘I’, fortified in dissociation from the dark soil of humanity by its acquired ‘actualist identity’.
If one is to be humanity, then nothing of humanity shall be foreign to one.
“The psyche is a frightful place” indeed.
What is it that Richard admires about ‘me’? Daring, and audacity. (link)
Jon: At any rate, I look forward to reading what you have coached me to read. It will be new to me for I tend to regard the actualism method as a real simple thing and no study is really required. Allow yourself to be happy and harmless now. Everything else are like the reasons to do it, the common barriers one encounters and tips to overcome them. But when I don’t desire to be happy, I also don’t desire to study why I should be happy. And when I do desire to be happy then I just allow it. And sometimes those states fluctuate back and forth quite rapidly.
Look, the actualism method is simple in practice but everyone has already been conditioned on top of being instinctually primed, and therefore at first they understand what they read according to the materialistic or spiritual paradigm, or both. As such, you need to do what feeling being ‘Vineeto’ reported when reading Richard’s words and putting them into practice (and that is the ‘complicated’ part) –
Richard: … what feeling-being ‘Vineeto’ reported after the first few weeks of listening to me/ reading my words.
Speaking in regards to the effects any and all attempts to fit this totally new paradigm into ‘her’ existing mindset were having, ‘she’ explained the process as being … (1.) as if ‘her’ brain was being turned upside-down … and how (2.) ‘she’ was having to relearn how to think all over again. (Richard, List D, Alan, 29 Feb 2016).
Don’t miss that step else you will misunderstand a lot of what Richard reports. ‘Vineeto’ found that reading, and re-reading, Richard’s words again and again, helped ‘her’ to “relearn how to think all over again”.
Jon: All of this I am writing merely to thank you for the coaching or the guidance. And to let you know I’ll be taking it to heart even if I don’t reply. And now, after re-reading and making some edits to aid the reader, I’ll read some of Richard’s journal before bed, which is not something I typically do. So I can thank you for that motivation.
Much obliged, (link)
I appreciate that, Jon, and you are very welcome.
Cheers Vineeto
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