Kub933's Journal

[Kub933]

http://www.actualfreedom.com.au/library/topics/instincts.htm

So I was thinking a lot about the above diagram over the weekend and how it relates to the application of the method. For me it addressed some difficulties that I have been having recently.

It is actually a really great piece for anyone who hasn’t read that page, also most of the below post will make references to the information outlined in the link.

What I notice (this is also something Peter mentions in the Actualist guide - Peter – Guide on the Path to Actual Freedom) is that there is indeed 2 steps in addressing any deeply ingrained emotional structures. There is the initial elimination of the beliefs and there is the direct experience of the raw instinctual passions underneath :

Once sufficient of this dismantling of one’s social identity has been done, it is then possible to begin to experience the instinctual passions deeply without acting on them – once the ‘lid is off’ then I can have a good look around inside – neither repressing nor expressing – and begin to experience ‘me’ at the very core of my being. The only way it is possible to undergo a significant change in life is by experiencing something deeply and understanding the experience fully. I don’t know about a map at this stage – it’s more like throwing away the water wings and snorkel, strapping on a scuba tank, plunging into one’s own psyche and rummaging around the bottom, looking under all the rocks in order to see what the bottom really looks like. The spiritual practice of transcending one’s undesirable emotions means that this type of in-depth investigation is deliberately avoided and in real-world therapy any investigations are restricted by morals and ethics to a mere paddling around on the surface

and

A variety of weird experiences are possible for one’s traditional defences, ways of coping or ways of avoiding, are no longer available. It is often as though one is naked in the world and it takes nerves of steel to not raise one’s traditional defences but to stay with any feelings of vulnerability and fear. Each time one dares to fully lower one’s guard and experience the consequences as only temporary and unsustainable instinctual emotional reactions, one gains more confidence to keep going, no matter what.

The first step of eliminating the beliefs is somewhat like untangling what is otherwise a big knotted mess, this is an important step as it provides clarity.
Thus the emotional structure becomes somewhat simplified, however the powerful affective backing which sustains it is still there.
In fact untying the knots might get me to experience the passions fuelling this drama even more acutely.

What I notice I have been doing is focusing almost exclusively on this more cognitive step of untying the various knots and expecting the entire thing to be resolved. When the powerful passions were exposed I was still attempting to continue investigating further, somehow reducing them further or hoping that I can find some new piece of information that will make everything disappear.
But there was not much more to reduce, not really anything left to untie.

It was time for the 2nd step, once the knot is untied the way forward is to experience those unfettered passions directly and fully, this can be quite intense at times and it can bring up all sorts of weird emotional reactions. This is also the step where things can shift at a deep level thus leading to significant change, I know this from past experience.

So I wanted to write this for anyone else who has had experiences that more or less follow the below :

1 - I notice that there is some feeling pattern that I keep getting stuck in despite my best efforts to remain feeling good.

2 - I go into great effort of investigating this thing and there is some positive change.

3 - However this thing hangs on, no matter what angle I look at this thing from I just cannot seem to change how I feel.

So it seems to me in a case like this, it is indeed time to go deep-sea diving and fully experience what is going on underneath. The last thing I will say is that this will not be a one and done sorta thing (at least not in my experience), the passions will be experienced deeply and each time this is done one is chipping away. Eventually this will lead to significant change.

What I also realised is that this aspect of deep-sea diving, of daring to allow myself to experience and live these passions is what Srinath was alluding to in his notes whilst a feeling being - Gnomic Mutterings from the Outer Rim

When I investigate I go through all these little emotional tunnels. Once I squeeze myself into all these dark, anxious tunnels, through those 'pinch points’ and sit there for a while, the tunnels collapse. It was my reaction (my aaargh!) that made the tunnel in the first place. Of course the network of tunnels doesn’t disappear, but by collapsing a few I get closer to realising the entire network can disappear. The network is more fragile than it looks.

[Kub933]

@Kub933

When I investigate I go through all these little emotional tunnels. Once I squeeze myself into all these dark, anxious tunnels, through those 'pinch points’ and sit there for a while

This is the bit that seems key, the step I was not willing to do. I wanted to think about something, find some info and have it disappear, this is a form of avoidance in itself. This anxious hole is a part of ‘me’ which I have separated from, it will not be resolved if the separation continues.

I have to ‘sit there for a while’, as in fully live this thing so that the understanding can be total, then things can indeed shift. But they will not shift as a result of avoiding or pasting something else on top.

[Kub933]

@Kub933

This is the bit that seems key, the step I was not willing to do. I wanted to think about something, find some info and have it disappear, this is a form of avoidance in itself.

The last thing I would add is that in my experience this is the step where various forms of actualist morality or actualist fantasies will pop up.

I have identified the pattern, I have done some investigation, I am unwilling to fully experience what is underneath and so I split myself away and avoid. I then paste various 'actualist concepts’ and imagine/convince myself that change has happened, or plan for what I will do to self immolate etc.

[Andrew]

Is it part of our actualist morality to “pat others on the back”?

I am floored reading these posts. Aghast at my own ineptitude, yet breathless and encouraged that such understanding is available for me to read.

In all my years, I just read words on a screen, not really seeing the words or the screen.

There was a 3D quality to the words in these posts. Like each word stood out, the background somewhat receding.

Kudos Kuba.

[Kub933]

Awesome I’m glad to hear that it makes things click a little more for you. I’m also testing all this out on myself at the moment so we will see how it goes.

It’s funny really because I am just re-writing what Peter has already written but I guess it’s nice to present things from a slightly different angle. It’s nice for me to put it together too as it helps with my own understanding.

[Andrew]

Your comments about there being some “insights” which will make it go away; the instinctual reality is immune to insights.

What Claudiu has recently reiterated, that one must WANT to enjoy and appreciate, is in stark contrast to my animal soul.

At some point, (maybe now is as good as any point), a certain basic instinct of truly selfish desire must drive one forward. To want, without moral or social justification, the VERY best experience of being myself.

To enjoy the ‘being’ of the doing of enjoying and appreciating.

Like Vineeto said in the link about drugs, and insights, and other things, temporarily disabling the normal self. A powerful WANTING to fully enjoy being alive.

[henryyyyyyyyyy]

@Kub933

So it seems to me in a case like this, it is indeed time to go deep-sea diving and fully experience what is going on underneath. The last thing I will say is that this will not be a one and done sorta thing (at least not in my experience), the passions will be experienced deeply and each time this is done one is chipping away. Eventually this will lead to significant change.

I like to lie down in the dark, maybe have a long bath when I’m doing this type of exploration. I find my emotional states are more accessible than when I’m upright or writing.

I know some people just fall asleep when they attempt this though, it depends on one’s makeup

Have fun!

[Kub933]

So things are looking good lately due to the change in approach. I wanted to write about this in case anyone else might be going down the same dead-end.

What I noticed I have been doing for a while now is using notes as somewhat of a buffer to actually feeling what is going on. So when various feelings came up instead of feeling them fully and conducting the investigation this way, I would instead write notes which allowed me to sort of ‘think about actualist stuff’ whilst not having to ever experience those parts of myself fully.

It created this buffer that kept me at a safe distance and turned it all into purely intellectual looking. Also instead of a genuine exploration culminating in the discovery of facts I was instead projecting actualist concepts onto these feelings which I was separating from. All in all this approach was a waste of time.

I only wish that we had someone like @geoffrey spend a good portion of a zoom video explaining that this is a dead end so that I could have heeded his advice

So the past few days have been no more notes, the focus has been on sincerely looking at these feelings as they come up, without trying to change them, distance from them, deny them, fight them, moralise them etc

Simply applying awareness-cum-attentiveness to these feelings, initially this was quite intense, perhaps because I have been running from them for a while? Either way sooner or later they would subside and then I would find myself experiencing a freedom from those emotions, not a desperate escape from them but a genuine freedom from having this particular emotion in my life, that ahhhhh feeling as the world opens up and inner conflict disappears - absolutely priceless!

Now the other thing which happened this morning, sort of a “Duh” moment… Is I realised that sincerely exploring these emotions along with understanding their cause actually culminated in me no longer - ‘going there’. This is all super simple, down to earth kinda stuff, as in I have been there before I am not doing it again, but in order to make this super simple decision I had to actually explore the whole issue fully, no longer through some buffer.

The way I experienced all this is that initially the emotion was felt like this beast that I was running from and was unwilling to even face/acknowledge so I shoved it into a dark corner.

Then I tied myself in all these knots so that I never had to look this beast in the eye. BUT what actually happened when I dared to do this is that I realised this beast is actually me, sat in that dark corner and blindly screaming for no reason at all other than it being what ‘I’ do / what ‘I’ am.

Seeing the above clearly and fully is what allows me to see the silliness of it all.

[Kub933]

The other thing which has helped me see all this clearer, to see the role that the blind instinctual passions play is having a dog.

A dog does not have the ability to be intelligent and so his reactions perfectly demonstrate how ‘I’ function deep down.

We have been trying to train poncho out of his separation anxiety and when he is experiencing those panic attacks when we leave it is so clear that these affective mechanisms take no note of any intelligent reasons, any factual information etc, they are simply wired to fire at a certain stimulus, and so if the stimulus is present the passions are triggered, once they are triggered the threat is ‘real’.

I can see this with poncho, he might spot a shadow somewhere and all of a sudden he is on high alert, there is ‘danger’, of course he is not aware of this happening but I can see that this organism is currently perceiving a ‘real threat’, whereas I am looking at this shadow and giggling.

But it is not so different in us humans, these passions are indeed blind, and they do not respond to reasons and facts. They need to be exposed and seen for what they are, I can never talk ‘myself’ out of ‘being’ with ‘good reasons’, these things happen on a level that simply does not respond to reasoning, to attempt to do so is to perform what we call intellectualising/psychologising/philosophising (I think pseudo-actualising should be added to the list too!). But they do respond to something, to the ability of this brain to be aware of its own functioning and as such to progressively see these passions for what they are - blind aka silly.

[Kub933]

So this new approach has definitely been working, so much so that I have noticed that the only reason it stalls is that I put the breaks on. If I was to continue applying attentiveness in this way then ‘I’ really cannot maintain myself. I am hanging onto this fear and sorrow that is ‘me’. I am somewhat comfortable ‘being’, like I have reduced it this much and now I have dug my heels in and said that is it, no more .

It is actually quite fascinating, to see the reluctance to look, because if I look I will see that ‘I’ am not needed. So I let this certain current of sorrow and malice go unnoticed, this is ‘my’ hiding place.

It’s really cool to finally dig in though without keeping things at a distance, to see that this is me, and I am the one maintaining myself. And the thing is that there is only one thing to do (the thing I am clearly not wanting to do) which is to actually find out what happens at the next step. Not thinking and fantasising about it but actually taking that step without knowing in advance how it plays out. But for now I am clearly content in my little cell.

It’s been super cool to observe how ‘I’ simply find reasons to continue being sorrowful and malicious, I do this without end. Of course the way I sell it to myself is that if only I conquer this next danger/tragedy then things would be fine, then it is funny to see how I simply invent the next danger/tragedy, it is just what I do to continue being. And it is all unnecessary, I find problems so that I can find solutions and all this allows me to continue being.

[Andrew]

Anything said to “praise” you will, apparently, keep you in place.

What will finally let us, the plebs, meet actual Kuba?

I may end up Moses, looking on to a land I never enter. However, there has been 103 billion of me, so no tragedy which is new there.

It, apparently, takes but a moment of pure contemplating, an obscure pondering of the environment, or what a experience of continuous apperceptive experience of people, places events is like, or a movie quote, a view from a balcony…

If I we’re you, I would be you. I you were me, you would be me.

[Kub933]

So I noticed something cool today, I was going to calm it down with the realisations but this one came up on its own so here we go

I still notice myself at times drifting off into various fantasies, usually I would try to somewhat battle them but this morning I followed the fantasy through, without any actualist morality. What I saw very clearly is that what I desire is actually what the PCE demonstrates as a living experience.

So very often the fantasies will be about relating to other people in a certain way, in the fantasy there is ease, fun, laughter, I am able to interact with the person in intimacy and yet free of any feelings of insecurity, obligation, fears of hurting their feelings, being restricted by morals etc, all in all it is a fantasy of having a great time with others and being completely at ease with myself.
It was kinda funny to see this, that this thing which I desire the most deep down (which seems ‘out there’) is actually what the PCE demonstrates as an actuality, and on the lower level naive intimacy offers this also. It clicked in a split second that I have actually lived that very experience which the fantasy is after.

The other cool thing which I realised is that actual intimacy/naive intimacy actually allows to live what the fantasy hints at in a way that is very concrete and reliable as it does not depend on the other. Because when I am in that place it is irrelevant how the other is feeling, wether they are not ‘playing along’ etc, this kind of intimacy is not vulnerable to the other’s level or receptivity or their general predilection, as it is with intimacy which is based on an emotional connection.

So in short I saw that I can unequivocally live what the fantasy demonstrates 24/7 and that it is completely in my hands, therefore it is possible.

Since seeing this I have applied the same attention to other fantasies and it is all the same, they all revolve around the freedom from being ‘me’. There was another fantasy of ‘being someplace else’, there was this image of being completely lost in some wonderful place of nature, simply marvelling at the world around in utter freedom… Sounds kinda familiar It is just that normally I would project this fantasy and then believe that I cannot have that experience whilst I am sat at my desk at work, but I can have that very experience right now!

I guess the reason they are fantasies is because ‘I’ am somewhat content to remain rotten as opposed to committing myself fully to live that experience - and in the process removing anything that stands in the way (this is probably what I am resisting).

But something shifted in the seeing that the PCE offers the very thing I desire the most.

[Kub933]

Looks like it is not an exaggeration at all to say that upon actual freedom all your deepest wishes are fulfilled and more. What the ‘being’ desires most is actually what is provided in actual freedom. As in utter safety, delight, intimacy and fun. Is this not what fear/security, belonging, desire etc are after? Albeit in a perverted, twisted, never able to attain it kinda way

[Kub933]

@Kub933

I guess the reason they are fantasies is because ‘I’ am somewhat content to remain rotten as opposed to committing myself fully to live that experience - and in the process removing anything that stands in the way (this is probably what I am resisting)

Actually the main reason seems to be that I believe I can never live that, that it’s impossible, that it’s too good to be true, that I do not deserve it, that life is a vale of tears, that you cannot change human nature, all those good ones haha.

[Andrew]

Such charming beliefs. What would we ‘be’ without them?

[Kub933]

I had one of them ‘swimming in purity experiences yesterday’ it went on for quite a while but the interesting part was what I was seeing so clearly towards the end of it.

There is a bit that Richard writes in the journal where he describes essentially the process of socialisation where the child learns through words and actions to emulate what it means to be sad, angry, upset, needy etc
Essentially they learn what it means to be ‘human’.

Yesterday I saw the extent of this which I never knew it went so far! It is as Richard writes that all this stuff is learnt, none of it is intrinsic to what it means to be a human being. It seems everything that ‘I’ consist of is the end product of emulating what everyone else has been doing.

I don’t know where the instinctual passions come into the picture here because yesterday it seemed like the entirety of ‘Kuba’ the ‘identity’ was just the conditioning playing itself on repeat and I could see that this is not what I actually am.

At one point I was so far away from ‘humanity’ that it all seemed like some ridiculous fading dream, what a blast! I just never saw how far it goes, everything that ‘I’ am is not genuine, wow.

Today the goal is to continue actualising what I saw so clearly yesterday and to continue allowing this purity that I was swimming in yesterday, it is slowly starting to click that it is safe to allow it, that no monster will come out to get me haha.

[Kub933]

@Kub933

I don’t know where the instinctual passions come into the picture here because yesterday it seemed like the entirety of ‘Kuba’ the ‘identity’ was just the conditioning playing itself on repeat and I could see that this is not what I actually am.

OK so I see where the instinctual passions fit in here. Basically this whole process of conditioning was a process which refined the raw passions into ‘human emotions’. So for example there was the raw aggression, I would then observe say my dad or others around me and emulate what it means to be angry (with all that this entails). This process was refining the crude into the sophisticated - eventually culminating in a well formed identity. The same happened to turn all the raw passions of fear, aggression, nurture and desire into this big array of human emotions, along with the fundamental beliefs which glue the whole thing together. It’s still staggering to see the extent to which all this is manufactured.

[Andrew]

As a father of 3 boys, my experience is baby’s have only two basic feelings; distress & contentment.

As you say, the rest emerge later, desire & fear first, whilst the expression of aggression and nurture come later again and are more “socially formed” where they are moulded and learnt via imitation.

[Kub933]

Having had the experience of bringing up kids is actually a pretty great reference for all this stuff that we discuss. To see it all as it forms and even to be part of the socialising process yourself!

I only have a dog for these kind of observations lol but actually it has been usefull too.

[Andrew]

We have the same basic brain structure as dogs, rats, cats etc, with a similar spectrum of basic feelings.