Kuba: Hi Vineeto,
Vineeto: Let me clear some misconception. When someone has a serious accident, the body goes into physical shock and with the aid of Adrenaline and other chemicals numbs the pain. Often also ‘I’ go into the background because practical physical survival measures have to be taken care of first. Later, when the shock subsides, pain occurs according to the injuries obtained and eventually ‘me’ with ‘my’ fears and worries comes back to centre stage. It’s been recorded of car accidents when people seriously injured have walked for miles only to break down once they reach help. (snip quote)
Kuba: OK but I do not see the misconception. I understand that despite the shock my arm was indeed broken (and needed modern medical aid to be repositioned), and also as you said later on once the shock subsided I was indeed in so much pain/ suffering that I was crying as it seemed that I could bear no more. (snip details).
But those memories were only an entry point for a contemplation on proceeding towards ‘my’ extinction… That ‘my’ altruism – with its concomitant courage – is already in place, in ‘me’. Which means that ‘I’ do not have to worry about how ‘I’ could garner such courage in advance, as this is provided by the circumstances as/when they happen.
Hi Kuba,
The point I was making – perhaps ‘diversion’ is a better classification than ‘misconception’ – was in the part you left out –
Vineeto: … fact is that the body does not die upon self-immolation, it is ‘me’ who is needs to, voluntarily and in full agreement, ‘self’-immolate – and when ‘you’ push before ‘you’ are ready to voluntarily manumit your flesh-and-blood body from bondage, then as a consequence ‘you’ create illusionary scenarios up to altered states of consciousness to avoid the frightening situation. [Emphasis added] (link)
Therefore, when you say “I was able to go into this fear I was thinking about physical death or serious injury” you are missing the point. In contrast, here is again the quote from Richard which you presented yesterday (link) –
[Richard]: ‘A deep feeling of dread, the abject intuition of impending doom, is fraught with foreboding be it a grim, dire, or awful presage, and this intensely apprehensive trepidation is symptomatic of the existential angst (the anguish of the essential insecurity of being a contingent ‘being’) which underpins all suffering. As such an occasion of profound dread is an opportune moment to plumb the depths of ‘being’ itself (‘me’ at the core of ‘my’ being) … [Emphasis added]. (Richard, List B, James3, 21 Nov 2002a).
Any contemplation “about physical death or serious injury” is in no way comparable to any “deep feeling of dread” which may arise when considering ‘my’ full agreement to ‘my’ irrevocable demise. It can only be a diversion or palliative plaster to prevent this fear from re-emerging again. It is ‘me’ who is utterly afraid of ceasing to exist, whereas when the identity gone, there is no fear of physical death whatsoever.
Kuba: So then to link it back to what you wrote and Richard’s quote, I just cannot see where the mismatch is? :
Vineeto: However, should you be wondering from where to get the gumption to proceed despite any occurring “unpalatable resistance” – and because I have noticed that you like it all mapped out before going ahead to then try it experientially – this might give you the answer –
Alan: So, yes, altruism can be the only motive. ‘I’ do this for the benefit of my fellow human beings, or ‘I’ do this not at all. The only question which remains – do ‘I’ have the necessary intestinal fortitude to proceed?
Richard: No … because *no one has ‘the necessary intestinal fortitude to proceed’ before they proceed: it comes in sufficient quality, and only as required by the circumstances, as one proceeds*. [Emphasis added]. (Richard, AF List, Alan, 28 Jan 2001).Kuba: The writing points to the fact that one does not need to have it mapped out or to garner the courage in advance, as the intestinal fortitude required is provided as/when one proceeds, which is exactly what I arrived at.
The quote continues (what you left out) –
Richard: The question is: what is preventing ‘me’ from proceeding? (Richard, AF List, Alan, 28 Jan 2001).
Kuba: Furthermore I had no map or plan come out of this contemplation, it was actually the opposite, that this is not required, that all ‘I’ do is proceed.
Perhaps it is not “intestinal fortitude” but certainly pure intent and daring to care, which will aid you finding out exactly which objection ‘you’ have, at the core of your ‘being’, to achieve your destiny … or, in your own words –
Kuba: … I was playing around in a paddling pool and thinking myself to be falling off the cliff. (link)
Kuba: I will leave the other bits about the heebie-jeebies as those are indeed messy.
Ok.
Kuba: [Edit:] Vineeto, I wonder did it perhaps look to you like I was trying to invoke some altered state of consciousness (much like the shock experienced during the arm break) in order to be invulnerable en route to extinction? If it’s anything like this then I am almost completely certain that this is not the case, the “almost” is only because I am still a feeling being. (link)
It certainly looked as if you were creating the illusion that you would be “invulnerable” with comparing ‘self’-immolation to “thinking about physical death or serious injury”, and the shonky logic “about the heebie-jeebies” confirmed that same illusion.
I am confident you will find a way, with pure intent and in your own pace, towards proceeding to your destiny.
Cheers Vineeto