Kuba: … it would be a more correct metaphor to say that ‘I’ am in a greenhouse, with that wondrous quality being all around, as in a 360. And the ‘boundaries’ of the greenhouse are not solid but rather porous, … (link)
Kuba: Oh and as were at it let me mention another thing which could well be another illusion generated by ‘me’ but it is interesting nevertheless.
To go back to ‘me’ looking out the window, there is exactly that illusion generated that ‘I’ can then step into the world which was peeked through the window. So ‘I’ (the arbiter) end up projecting ‘myself’ into an imagined actual freedom. That is when it is just another adventure in ‘my’ world, with the psychic guns etc.
Yesterday as I was looking at all this I experienced it completely differently though. To go back to this metaphor of the greenhouse… That self-immolation is when those boundaries which give ‘me’ ‘my’ very real existence are dissolved, so much so that ‘I’ would have never existed in the first place.
So I experienced this as 2 completely different things, one being ‘me’ jumping from illusion to illusion and the other being ‘my’ dissolution which reveals the already always existing actuality. (link)
Hi Kuba,
I wrote my reply to your first two messages last night but decided to hold off to see what happens. I am nevertheless sending my earlier response because those reminders may well come in handy should ‘you’, the persistent passionate and cunning identity, play another trick on you.
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Unless one takes fully on board, that ‘I’ have to die in ‘my’ entirety you are liable to jump from “illusion to illusion”, every one more ‘real’ than the previous. “That self-immolation is” not “when those boundaries which give ‘me’ ‘my’ very real existence are dissolved” because ‘you’ have not yet given permission for that to happen. “Those boundaries” do not dissolve of their own accord, the instinct for ‘self’-preservation is too strong. The passion for individual survival is surpassed only by the passion for species survival – hence altruism is essential. Even though you say you “experienced this as 2 completely different things” both alternatives were illusions.
It may be opportune to again fully contemplate this –
Richard: To put it bluntly: ‘you’ in ‘your’ totality, who are but a passionate illusion, must die a dramatic illusory death commensurate to ‘your’ pernicious existence. The drama must be played out to the end … there are no short-cuts here. The doorway to an actual freedom has the word ‘extinction’ written on it. This extinction is irrevocable, which eliminates the psyche itself. When this is all over there will be no ‘being’ at all. Thus when ‘I’ willingly self-immolate – psychologically and psychically – then ‘I’ am making the most noble sacrifice that ‘I’ can make for oneself and all humankind … for ‘I’ am what ‘I’ hold most dear. It is ‘my’ moment of glory. It is ‘my’ crowning achievement … it makes ‘my’ petty life all worth while. It is not an event to be missed … to physically die without having experienced what it is like to become dead is such a waste of a life. (Richard, List B, No. 13, 26 May 1999)
And this –
Srinath: That night I stood in the balcony knowing that something was required to convince me to let go of the controls. I kept thinking about that last piece of pizza that was me and what the reason could there be to ‘die’? It seemed like I was hanging on by a very thin thread that stayed firmly in place. At that point I saw my girlfriend lying on the couch and once again I could see that what was separating us was ‘me’. I went out to the balcony and looked down and saw some people walking. I could see that even though everything was nearly perfect that last little bit of ‘me’ was there separating myself from everyone else on this planet and spoiling perfection. The spoonful that weighed a tonne. ‘I’ would roar back into full existence creating havoc for this body and every body, given half a chance. I had to ‘die’ so that this body and every other body could live peacefully. I would need to truly die. The enormity of this dawned on me suddenly like it never had before. The enormity of what I had to give up. It took my breath away. [Emphasis added]. (Srinath, Becoming Free Report).
I am not saying this to scare you but to point out a way out of those obviously persistent illusions that you can take your ‘self’ with you into an actual freedom through some “porous boundaries”.
There is also this report from Claudiu to you about his visit to Geoffrey –
Claudiu: Basically the way he put it is, what will happen in the universe if I physically die? Essentially nothing except this body is dead (most of it will continue as-is). And the point is that the only difference with self-immolating rather than dying, is that there is a body that will continue being conscious (and not fall into a coma or whatever). But for me it will be exactly the same as if the body physically died, no difference whatsoever for me – total extinction. That put the notion to rest that I would continue in any way after self-immolating.
He also really impressed upon me just how significant this is. It’s not kid stuff. It’s not a playground ride or a roller coaster where you get on it then come back and get off and you’re back to where you were. It is a one-way ride with no return ticket. So long as the enormity of it is not grasped – to which fear and dread are a normal response – then it’s still just being on the playground ride.
Only once this is grasped then can the decision be made to take the leap and continue anyway (otherwise you’re just imagining yourself to be on a cliff but you’re really on a flat ground, and you don’t see the edge to jump off of but only think you do). So you have to actually get to the edge of the cliff (seeing the enormity of the extinction) and only then you can decide to jump.
And that decision to jump, self-immolation doesn’t happen right then – it takes a little longer, which is the final, constantly-accelerating, out-from-control process which Geoffrey experienced for about a week. But he said the experience after jumping is one of constantly accelerating, and also no dread afterwards, the dread part (“wall of fear”) only happens before.
Whether there are different flavors of out-from-control that we have been experiencing or they are different things entirely, and/or figuring out what to call all this, could be an interesting exercise, and maybe of value later, but for now whatever it is, it’s clear we hadn’t done that jump Geoffrey talked about here off the cliff. [Emphasis in original]. (30 May 2025)
When you genuinely and sincerely face this very fact that I will have to die, then such illusionary notion that you live in a luscious greenhouse with “rather porous” boundaries is no longer possible. To say it for emphasis, there is no connection at all between the real world and the actual world. To kid yourself that the boundaries are “rather porous” is only postponing your destiny.
To put is another way – sincerity (and ruthless honesty with yourself) is the key to naiveté, and the actualism process can only take over when one has “given oneself prior permission to have one’s life live itself (i.e., sans the controlling doer), and a different way of being comes about (i.e., where the beer is the operant) – whereupon a thrilling out-from-control momentum takes over and an inevitability sets in – whereafter there is no pulling back (hence the reluctance in having it set in motion) as once begun it is nigh-on unstoppable.” (Richard, List D, Claudiu4, 28 Jan 2016).
As long as there is any aspect of ‘you’ wanting to existentially avoid the fact that ‘you’ have to die, to disappear/ to ‘self’-immolate/ to vanish without a trace, in order for the actual world to become apparent, you will be reduced to grasping at various “doomsday straws” in the face of the essential insecurity of being a contingent ‘being’.
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Vineeto: When you assess with the apperceptiveness/ PCE ‘self’-less perspective (whilst still experiencing the actual world) you know full well that there is no question that your flesh-and-blood body not only can live in the actual world but thrive far better than you do now. In a PCE you know that this actual world is where I belong, that I have always been here, where everything is perfect and magical.
Kuba: I was just re-reading your reply and I remembered such a magical moment yesterday. I was teaching a class and it happened completely unexpectedly right as I was in the middle of explaining an exercise to everyone.
The partner I was demonstrating on was stood in front of some windows and as it was dusk there was this incredible orange hue of light that was spreading across the room, and this caught my attention, and then in the blink of an eye I was as you describe – where I belong, where everything is perfect and magical. It was particularly interesting because it happened in the class setting and so everybody else was also there in that magical world.
Re-memorating this experience makes the point well – that there is no gradation between ‘my’ world and that magical world. No matter how diminished, ‘I’ never set foot in the actual world. That is why ‘I’ sacrifice ‘myself’ – so that everybody can live in that magical world, where they already are. (link).
Excellent. Now that you have a clear and unequivocal benchmark again it is indeed that simple.
Cheers Vineeto