Scout: … because the consciousness experiences I’ve had that mostly closely align with the state you and Richard describe – where the psychological self/center is completely gone, there are only senses and a direct awareness of infinity – were actually pretty overwhelming. A lot of agitation/ remnants of fear were still present and were experienced very acutely without the buffer of the psychological self, kind of reminiscent of the adjustment period Richard described, and I definitely felt disoriented too. It makes those experiences feel like a little less of a compass for me because they actually didn’t feel super desirable. Did you have an adjustment period too, once you arrived at full freedom? Is this overwhelm/ transitional agitation just part of the experience?
Vineeto: (snip)
Scout: However there are other parts of Richard/Vineeto’s description like centerlessness and contact with infinity which I did not directly experience in those incredible moments (even though there felt like there was no “me”, and I had an understanding of infinity, there must have been some sense of centre and slight separation from it). The moments where the centre died and raw infinity coursed through me had a different flavor because they were so fundamentally different, it was very, very overwhelming and disorienting. But I guess as Vineeto said, it probably means there were still remnants of me left to feel this overwhelm.
Hi Scout,
As you have mentioned again “Richard/Vineeto’s description like centerlessness and contact with infinity” I am wondering if you can point me to the specific reports you are referring to in order that I can respond in a meaningful way. If you could also describe your own experiences in more detail so I can understand why you are comparing them to Richard’s and my descriptions.
You say – “The moments where the centre died” – when one is actually free, there is no “centre” which can die, so I am puzzled in what way your experience was similar to the descriptions you read.
Scout: So I guess I’ve never experienced it all at once – total complete centerlessness and contact with infinity, at the same time that everything seems magical and fun and perfect. The centerlessness actually quite surprised me when I first experienced it because I couldn’t fathom until then how total the obliteration would be, and it had seemed to me that perfect happiness was possible with the far more shallow disappearance of “me” that had revealed the meaning of life prior. I wonder if this is the difference between basic and actual freedom. (link)
Can you say something more about the experience of how the “disappearance of ‘me’” appeared to you “far less shallow” in comparison to “total complete centerlessness”.
While you are wondering “if this is the difference between basic and actual freedom” – I am in fact wondering, in light of your descriptions so far, if your experiences of “total complete centerlessness” were altered states of consciousness of the nature of an ‘actuality mimicking ASC’ (Richard, Abditorium, Hypomania).
It is not uncommon that the identity comes up with this cunning way to lead you away from, and disorient you, on your adventure to become actually free. This is all par for the course of dismantling the human condition. So I definitely suggest that you do not use these experiences as a compass or even indication of progress. You may find Kuba’s posts (link) and (link) informative and also my reply to him (link) on January 8 this year.
Cheers Vineeto