@carpe_vitae Thanks for the reminder. It is always good to see this quote from TMOBA. I have also been experiencing a void as if something is missing. As long as I am being the body living as the senses there is nothing missing.
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What I’ve found is anything can trigger this cycle - be it my partner feeling bad and thus being less close / more brusque which then triggers me to feel bad, or something else in my life making me feel bad which causes me to be less close / more brusque which triggers my partner to feel bad. And whatever it starts, then it can cycle, as you say.
I noticed a while ago that when I am in a feeling bad mode I am much more ‘sensitive’ – which can be a socially acceptable way of saying I get upset and defensive and therefore retributively offensive much more easily.
One thing that was a bit of a turning point for me, here, is actually looking at this upset instead of taking it as a given or must-happen. What I found is that at the root of it was me wanting my partner to behave a certain way. She should have said this , or she should have done that this way, etc etc. and when she didn’t I became upset. So the upset isn’t from what she did, it is from me wanting her to have done something differently.
And the inescapable question arose: why? Why feel my partner has to do this or say that? She is her own person.
That really took the fuel out of it and now I see it as silly and don’t go down such paths anymore. The difference is quite great! We much less frequently get into those ebbs now. And if she is at an ebb, it doesn’t pull me into an ebb too. Very recommended.
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I’ve been noticing this too. I expect her to act a certain way towards me and a lack of that makes me dip into feeling bad. I’m starting to understand that I alone am responsible for my happiness. It’s up to me to feel good to whatever degree possible, come what way (to coin a phrase). Let her go about her business doing her own thing and I’ll focus on maintaining my happiness regardless of the external situation. Just let it flow. The closeness will return when the time and conditions are right. No point fretting about it.
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Hi John - for what it is worth, until fairly recently I was in the exact same predicament, which had dogged me for years. A significant chunk of my sense of well-being and emotional security was tied into the status of the relationship’s integrity, which was itself tied into the status of my spouse’s emotional temperament and her fluctuating perceptions of me and the relationship.
Like you, when there was closeness, there was contentment. A certain aspect of my spirit felt settled; a feeling of, “At least that part’s sorted! Now about these bills …”. When we were close, there was the sense that we would remain close and would be on good terms from here out; that we could just communicate-away all the little peeves and slip-ups that might arise between us, and all would then be well. Which was of course, pure horse manure. “Communication” almost always made things so much worse.
I remember an awful aching pain would develop in my lower back as the arguments and seething bitterness that marked the separation, hostility, and depression crescendoed towards the inevitable collapse of our bond. Trying to mend the matter just made things worse. An overwhelming darkness would take over and it could be days or weeks before either of us was again ready to rekindle things.
That closeness would usually be reestablished through sexual intercourse upon which the sense of security would again settle in, until things invariably went sour again. And on the cycle went, with moods and well-being (and sanity) going up and down accordingly.
Adding children into this mix was utter recklessness, in retrospect.
In the last year or so, I have come to anticipate the ebb and flow of the relationship. I consciously made the effort to get back to my baseline temperament whenever it dipped on account of the relationship going sour. Her hating my guts now has little effect on my well-being; which means now I don’t try very hard to fix things; which means I don’t end up making things worse than they already are; which means the damages are mitigated and the healing process, as far as the relationship is concerned, is accelerated; which means that whenever she is ready to stop being a seething sour-pus about it, that I’ll already be there in calm spirits to carry on the business of our association. Which now means that when things are ‘good’ I’m feeling okay, and that when things are ‘bad’, I’m feeling okay.
Just a testament and reassurance that it is possible to feel at least okay even when things are ‘bad’.
(As an example, she is currently pissed at me over some inanity after a nice stretch where, for whatever reason, she was enamored with me, and I’m remarkably unphased right now, whereas five years ago there would have been a pit in my stomach. So there’s definitely a way through this, John).
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Thanks, Rick. You articulated this perfectly, nail on the head.
It’s amazing what a shift in mindset does. Since I started to focus on myself and my own happiness, things seem much better. And my own happiness improves the relationship, so it’s win/win.
These emotions feel part of a larger web of ‘mating game’ feelings, which are far and away the biggest reason for me dipping into feeling bad. Just need to keep chipping away at them as they arise to get a more consistent level of enjoyment.
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@rick sounds suspiciously like you are blaming “her” rather than taking responsibility for how you are feeling and accepting you are the only person you can change.
Hi Alan - there’s no blame.
By the way, since that was written, and again, for whatever reason, she now does not abhor my existence but is instead head-over-heels in love with me at this moment. No effect on my composure.
“little effect” is nowhere near the same as no effect.
Neglibly.
I am loving having a forum with proper topics!
This one has come up for me; thanks for all the well written posts.
There are so many levels to this. Unsurprisingly, and yet disappointingly, it was precisely my relationship which ended my few good days of “inging” in the direction of happy.
Going back to @Henryyyyyyyyy 's “wind and rock” analogy, sometimes it does seem like one is mining a rock!
However, on closer inspection, it is still movement. Just very intense, tightly packed, buzzing type.
The main thing seems to be betrayal ofmy self imaginationing. It not all about jealously for me in the traditional sense but as @Srinath pointed out, it is about the imagination of other, better, men.
I don’t seem to be capable right now of what @claudiu.s talks about, being able to “let her do her thing”, i want control. Even though, i am always on the edge of breaking up.
It is very clear evidence that there is an ‘i-ing’ process intent on maintaining ‘my’ apparent existence.
Because the fact of being the lesser man in many man-o-man comparisons is beyond objective dispute , being possessive seems to be the MO for avoiding a confirmation of this fact.
I haven’t been able to stop “pre-emptive” strikes yet.
I really don’t deal with rejection well at all. Or even the thought of it. My habit seems to be to start feeling good, then sabotage the relationship via being preachy about it, but the motivation isn’t to help her but a fearing of losing whatever happiness i have managed by being rejected.
On the other hand, some of my dramas seem to have sensible objections.
There is, as i said, so much more that can be reasonably thumb typed out.
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However, it does seem to me the idea of being betrayed, lied too, is what i am “inging” over.
When Srinath mentioned the “imagination of other better men” it’s not something I recognised initially. But when stripping away the layers, I have actually noticed that this is a large part of it. The threat of other men stealing your girl and having to compete for dominance, no matter how subtle, is something that bubbles away under the surface.
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I had a big realisation today. Being jealous stems from the fear of losing the other. Whilst investigating, I saw clearly that the fear of losing the other is caused by love. The fear of losing that loving connection.
The love for her is a huge part of my identity, it’s part of ‘me’. It’s the first time I’ve seen love so clearly, not the enjoyable fuzzy feelings, but from the other side. The attachment of love is at the root, so embedded inside of me that it manifests all manner of problematic qualities. I was able to ‘walk around it’ and observe it for the first time.
It’s mind blowing. This emotion that bonds us together is also a barrier between us, a hindrance. I’m starting to see what an actual intimacy means and requires. Removing the barrier so I can connect in a ‘clean’ manner, without fear, jealousy, attachment, expectation etc and allow her to be exactly as she is.
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Except the “loving connection” is all in your head.
No such thing happens, even in the normal scheme of things. The bond we imagine is simply the refusal of two people to see it didn’t happen.
“i love you”, “i love you too”. This formula is as good as pronouncing loudly “voidium nervosum be-goneium” for it is effectiveness. For a brief moment, one can believe that it creates something. Then that moment is gone.
The feeling of love, is the feeling of lack. Of being incomplete and trying to “shove” this person into that void.
You don’t fear losing that loving connection, you fear seeing that you have failed yet again to be ‘whole’, to have an actual existence.
To be “a real boy”, rather than the automaton ‘you’ are.
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“one baby to another said ‘i happy to meet you, it is now my duty to completely drain you’”
Cobain.
Heh, I used to listen to this song a lot but didn’t catch the meaning of the lyrics. Makes sense now 
The loving connection I discovered took the form of feelings / a belief and part of my identity rather than my imagination / thoughts. I expect my wife has a similar belief or part of her identity that creates a bond with me, although I obviously can’t verify it first hand!
‘Loving connection’ maybe isn’t the best description, ‘attachment’ is probably more apt. We have an attachment to each other that makes up part of our identity. It’s certainly not like the ‘loved up’ feeling that you have at the beginning of a relationship, that is long gone because our time together is way more than a couple of years, lol.
Agree with this, I’ve identified that during my investigations.
I need to contemplate this one. It seems that if I lost the loving connection / attachment then it would almost be like a kind of grief. If she were to leave me then there would be an aching void, amongst many other emotions / beliefs I expect.
The interesting thing is that if I want to become truly happy and harmless, that attachment has to go. It’s ironic because I need to voluntarily remove the very thing that I fear losing (love / attachment). Kind of like self-immolation on a smaller scale. We’re actively seeking to induce the thing that we fear the most.
I was looking at this as well yesterday. What I found was a multi-layered self-reflective emotional dynamic:
Top layer (the most apparent): jealousy
2nd: (next layer ‘down’): love (palliative)
3rd: fear of rejection/insecurity
4th: desire for companionship/understanding/protection
5th: loneliness
6th:(final) the critical ‘me,’ who keeps everything separate from ’me’ & thus creates the loneliness
So layer 6 is driving the whole situation, I could really only consciously remember down to layer 5 normally and spent most of my time bouncing between layers 1 & 2, with visits to layer 3 & 4.
What I experienced layer 6 as is extremely critical, ‘has a problem with everything,’ which I think is watching out for threats. As far as I can tell it’s the source of ‘being.’
As long as it’s there, there will be suffering, and the attachment you name is only there because those lower layers cause constant pain, which the love attempts to cover up. By way of encouragement: the pain is there still, now, if you pay attention.
Not only the source of being - but being itself!
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Yes, you’re right! Wow. I found myself!
Good to see you back, Arthur. The forum keeps growing 