Bubs b2wf journal

Journals
82

Son_of_bob
I do like you, youre a decent guy and you also know (just like me) you’re inherently likeable. you basterd! :slight_smile:

I’ll reply because you were decent enough to say you’ll hear if I can provide value.

I’ll be quick here, dude, nothing wrong with you that I’d change apart from listening. Maybe 1-2 other things I can expand on. But will reply in more detail later.

On a side note, look at the trolls rushing in. Rick’s a new face who I’ll have to ignore too. Likening me to school shooters pumping round after round in. Jeez.

The meaning of the communication is the response you get.

I don’t feel I’ve been abusive towards s_o_b, and don’t believe he’s been abusive towards me (rude a couple of times, and not listening or obtuse at absolute worst) and we’re both here happily chatting away to each other.

I thought I wouldn’t reply to s_o_b, but I read his most recent reply and the lad is like me - a charming eminently likeable sumbitch even if a spectacular pain in the ass at times.

I’ve been thinking recently about how we clock people into good and bad groups (and accurately too).

Tom Cruise bad. John Travolta good.

Trump bad. Clinton good.

Kub. Son_of_bob. henryyyy. good.
Claudiu. Rick. Andrew. facepalm.

Also to be clear, last time was bad place looking for abuse from allegedly harmless people. I signed up for it, got it and loved it.

This time around was to say I’ll take the advice and leave the forum, but son_of_bob was actually decent, so was kub and I felt compelled to reply.

No matter what I said though, in whatever state of mind anywhere on this journal, I’m still happy to stand behind.

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My whole intention and goal has been as below :

I was walking from school one day after having another shit day, all of a sudden these sorrowful emotions I was feeling reached a peak and disappeared along with ‘me’. Immediately I became aware of a perfection that was all around, it was ‘in the air’ so to speak, palpable. I looked back and saw that who ‘I’ was, was nothing but some psychological/psychic echo, the sum total of all the conditioning.

I knew that this perfection was my destiny, that I had found the meaning of life, this intense release at finally having located perfection somehow turned into sorrow and this sorrow then morphed into an all encompassing love and compassion.
So the PCE turned into an ASC and sent me down a path of meditation, perhaps also because this was the closest I could find at the time to people describing the experience I had.

Finally by pure chance I stumbled across the AFT and I immediately knew that Richard was describing this very experience of perfection that I had walking from school, in fact he was the only one I could find that was talking about it.

So of course it made sense to follow the method he has devised to live this experience 24/7. But at the end of the day ‘being an actualist’ was never my motivation. My motivation was that experience of perfection, the method and all that is secondary and I think this is super important, that the commitment to living the perfection one has tasted in the PCE comes before everything else, before any ism.

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I think the issues I am seeing are because this gets flipped back to front. So now the ism has been assimilated into the identity (in some way made sacred) and is being wielded like a sword whilst the tectonic plates of identity are still shifting underneath.

I think to live the perfection tasted in the PCE I need to be a fellow human being rather than an actualist. The intent has to flow directly from the perfection.

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Just for accuracy, I wasn’t practicing for 20 years, after being run over in September 2007, I had two years of total hell physically and psychologically. My awareness was shot to shit, obsessing over physical symptoms was the be all and end all of my reality. Sure there were moments of coming back to HAIETMOBA but nothing consistent or truly using the method. I decided I wanted to explore my creative, intellectual pursuits and being in love. At that time I had only experienced unrequited love. Even in those years I had constant battles with depression and anxiety, close to being sectioned one time too.

I only honestly came back to AF in 2018, still in the aftermath of relapsed depression and anxiety but after CBT helped stabilise me.

Interaction on the forum helped me understand those aspects I had misunderstood or misinterpreted about the method. This is what I meant with my messages regarding misunderstanding English, because words have so many overloaded meanings and interpretations.

Definitely, both are always vaible arguments, as you would have seen was the case explored by a lot of us but a lot of those discussions were on the forums that got wiped.

Definitely, I agree and interaction with people on the forum like @Srinath and @geoffrey and others helped clear that up for me personally and I think others too.

I would also add there are those that understood the method but came to the conclusion the state cannot be existed permanently and dedicated their lives to different pursuits, my friend who introduced me to AF did this and he was long time interactor on the original Topica and Yahoo forums, plus other members I had got to know a little. I was in both of those but barely ever communicated direct, mostly private messaged or messaged through my friend. He decided he wanted to dedicate his life to anti natalism and veganism and spreading both of these in the end. I was the friend he was perpetually disappointed in for being a meat eater and selfishly having kids.

For some people that might be the case but not everyone, I don’t think its fair to tar people with the same brush. Like people on the AF forum are some Borg collective.

I would, if I didn’t find myself progressively getting better, but I can consider I might be selfishly considering only its value to me and not its universal applicability. My failings previously I thought were because of my misunderstandings of the method. So, I guess it is how does one differentiate between failings in the method and ones own inadequacies or the failings of those individuals attempting the method. Me and my friend criticised the method and aspects back on the old forums as did others, sometimes he would raise my points as I was too cowardly to be in the line of fire myself, more so as a fear of confrontation rather than of some absolute unquestionable value of the method being sacred and sacrosanct.

The quantification and qualitative value of what is successful or where you want to be will be so idiosyncratic and different for so many people. I reckon I could have taught others how to tap into the creative highs from learning and creativity if I was more confident (like I said it still has conditional aspects and doesn’t produce the goods overall) but I believe it could have helped a lot of generally unhappy people, I think I could have had more success with that than the wider AF methods exposure and headcount (hell maybe I could ahve got rich). But that is because I guess the PCE is something quite esoteric, not sure if that is the right way to put it.

When you have a realisation of the non specialness of feelings it is hard to undo that. For example, that personal realisation (which is pre AF and PCE exposure) changed my view that I previously saw every feeling as natural and valid in its own right. Then suddenly they were no longer special or the be all and end all, I could not undo that personal realisation without being artificial. Then when suffering, there was a new realisation of how unsavoury and unbeneficial feelings could get. For 2 years, I lived with total panic and fear, like my brain was just malfunctioning after my head was hit very hard. I was in some altered reality where more suffering and death was going to happen. I didn’t know it was possible to hurt that bad too, I miss the ignorance of not knowing that. The true realisation of your mortality and not just a fleeting thought about it, I guess it might have been a wasted opportunity that I couldn’t leverage that dread to a more freeing state.

I didn’t want to get rid of feelings when I had my first PCE, I just no longer let them dictate what was possible for me, which for a low self esteem person and fearful person, limits and shrinks your life so much. The PCE itself has no feelings in operation and shows you a confidence that everything can be ok with that too. However, it still doesn’t protect you from harm or harming others, because its experoence enough isn’t transformative enough to ultimately change you, so yes it is just the beginning of a journey that will vary wildly from individual to individual.

I agree, which makes it all the more complicated, right?

My friend had this reaction to Richard too but I personally never found him that bad, pedantic I would agree on but I never found him salty like my friend did. I have seen people react like that to my family members when they have just been brutally honest, and I didn’t think in those certain moments they were being petty or cruel, there so many ways interactions can be interpreted. I think there are a lot of individual reactions to how people see things, my particular friend had parents that only ever criticised constructively and were super nice, super polite, so everyone must seem harsh and rude in comparison to that I used to think. Everyone seemed more artifical and fake to me compared to my family too like I had to second guess what people were actually thinking or feeling, I find so many people don’t say what they think or feel.

I never really thought about that, I tend not to always focus on end goals but the journey. To me it is more about the relation and authenticity of experiences described, to me personally, again very selfish. The experience and it’s being replicable is what matters to me, I never really bought into or concerned myself with some overall end goal for humanity, maybe a jaded belief the majority of humanity will never change. Additionally, for me it isn’t about him or some other person, it is about its value and repeatibility of what is described. An exploration of the feasibility of something. I am like that with science too though, I often find myself not caring about Einstein or Feynman or the scientists individual stories but the knowledge itself, the ideas and the information is what holds most currency to me not the who.

I guess for me, it is like having the instructions to make a chemical reaction that should be repeatable. The problem is the process and progress is incremental and easily misinterpreted, like the difference between imperial or metric units in a scientific experiment. There are other benefits such as not suffering as much, reduced moments of harmfulness and malice. feeling more felicitous, having EE’s which are themselves incremental benefits that have individual value too, to me especially but of course the achievement of the continuation of a PCE will be the ultimate litmus. After a significant period of improvement when does an individual decide the method is no longer working in that regard, it is tricky. Personally, there is still positive momentum for me so I am not at that fork in the road yet.

I really hate being called a follower, I noticed. It really unsettles me. I follow the experiences and the method and ideas, not Richard. Its my problem with gurus too, the word has some overloaded emotional distrustful reaction like I do with priest, mullah, rabbi, etc. Somebody having a title instantly makes me not want to listen to them, if Richard had called himself guru Richard then I probably wouldn’t have even read any words on the site, an atheist discriminatory reaction in me maybe. It makes me cringe personally thinking of people giving themselves titles, hey I am a guru, not just religious but other domains too like somebody saying I am a fashion guru, I am an expert software developer. My current employers label my role as Senior developer and I really don’t even like that title lol, and I never use it.

I don’t really agree with you that there is some collective mindset here, maybe because I have
experienced enough of the different forums and their evolution and the different people over the years. I think you had an unrealsitic expectation of where this forum and its members are at, is that possible? Maybe because @Srinath introduced you, you might have thought of more people at that level he had acheived. I see it as a forum of people wanting to change and wanting to be better, even if not achieving it, it is still better than pretending the status quo is optimal or not wanting to be a better version of yourself.

The same for me, except it was the first method I had explored at the time of exposure, I had not explored other methods at all as regards happiness, only explored belief systems and philosophies.

Same, I am a bad listener I know, or things go over my head and certain styles of writing suit my thinking better. I find myself having to re-read your stuff a lot.

I think my wife would agree lol.

Wow, interesting. I really do see everyone as bad, like the whole world are antagonists until proven otherwise, and it takes a long time and a lot of criteria to be accepted. I can see that defensive everyone is a cunt stance, it feels protective but is also limits ones friend pool and personal circle.

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At least you’re being straightforward here.

Critiquing the forum is of course not off-limits. I do seriously question your understanding of the world, however.

You have perceived your interactions with me to be so abusive, vile and repulsive that I’m now irredeemably a bad person, with no nugget of a decent guy left anywhere, who literally makes your “skin crawl”… and what, precisely, did I do?

If you go back and see what I actually wrote, it was nothing but me calling you on your bullshit, repeatedly and precisely. I didn’t even use use ad-hominems or any name-calling, because it wasn’t a personal attack directed at you, it was an attempt to get you to see that what you are writing isn’t consistent with itself.

My biggest crime apparently was not respecting your path - but you don’t respect the actualism path either. So how come if someone doesn’t respect your path you are morally justified in going on large tirades, equating someone criticizing it literally with rape (I can’t get over that), but you get to bash on the forum and ask that nobody disturb you while you’re doing so? You can dish it but you can’t take it, eh?

Meanwhile you call your corespondent a “narcissist”, and a “dickhead” – and you take great care in emphasizing that he’s only a dickhead because he’s “too much of a dimwit” to reach the heights of being a “cunt” – and then you write you’re “happy to repeat any and all of it” and are “happy to stand behind” it, and none of it is “abusive”? (Side note: reading this again I now find a rather funny aspect to it :grin:.).

Yet somebody not respecting your path and critiquing it in a calm and no-personal-attacks manner is “abuse”???

It truly boggles the mind!

The big picture is this:

  1. You can try to criticize the aspirant actualists/actually free all you want, but before you can critique them validly and present something better you have to first demonstrate that you understand them
  2. You simply don’t understand what actualism and actual freedom are enough to form a coherent critique of them
  3. Your critiques are not even original as they have been rebutted time & time again such as to cause
    a Frequently Flogged Misconceptions – Index and Commonly Raised Objections – Index page to be created
  4. The most fundamental misunderstanding of all is that you don’t understand that actual freedom is something new, not something old – and as such it doesn’t make sense to compare it to another path which has “tens of thousands over decades” of successes, as those successes are a success in something else (flowers successfully growing but car still broken)

So for God’s sake get over yourself, step down off your high-horse of your you-so-know-you-are-right-that-you-can-freely-hurl-verbal-insults-because-you’re-so-sure-of-yourself , and maybe we can actually have a decent conversation about all this.

In an attempt to be more effective in my communication with you, taking cues from how you yourself communicate: This is bullshit. People misunderstand each other all the time. Offense is taken where none is implied.

As an obvious example, my response to your message to son of bob is you were being abusive. You say you weren’t. But according to your logic, it doesn’t matter. The meaning is the response, therefore you were abusive.

In reality, the response someone has to a communication depends on two things:

  1. What the communicator says / how they say it
  2. What the communicated-to hears / how they understand it

To put 100% of it on #2 is, again, bullshit. It’s just a way you are using to justify your misunderstandings of what’s been written here, part of your neat worldview of you-are-right-and-we-are-wrong.

Cheers,
Claudiu

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[> Again man, not trying to be intentionally a dick but appreciate your patience. If you ever change your mind I would like to know.

Ok, but what if i get some value from you? Would that change your mind.

This is exactly what changed my mind - your humility, graciousness and apparent open mindedness.

Just don’t shoot me with an AK-47 for my bad English,

Hey, I thought I was being super funny - you criticised my english, I gleefully grabbed the chance to throw it back at you. And Samuel L Jackson’s phrase came to mind.

“I can feel fear arising in me. I am so frightened that you now won’t like me.”

Rest assured s_o_b, I actually feel a decent degree of affection towards you.

.I openly challenged you without any regards to your feelings or self importance. In what polite English society would consider rude, but maybe I thought you could take it lol.

Course I can take it. I enjoyed yesterday’s exchange. And despite wanting to leave, and not having any motivation to stay apart from these last couple of messages to you and kub.

You haven’t hurt me or offended me, but I would want you to see that those states don’t mean anything special, and its really hard to convey that I guess. Our values systems seem totally different I guess.

I knew a part of you liked me lol.

Overconfident fuck :smiley:

I am being authentic to me, and if I don’t get you that’s authentic too. Sometimes people don’t get each other or see eye to eye.

but I am trying to understand you at least, no brownie points for that?

Yes, did I hurt you or not? The whole point I thought was I hadn’t hurt you and we both kind of know I haven’t really hurt you

Okay, here’s me trying to provide value. I don’t see it helping tbh, but maybe years down the line when you see this, you’ll think, ahh, fuck, fair play to bub. Arsey bitch clocked me right. Now you won’t be able to get it. Sorry, but that’s what my crystal ball says.

Let’s take the example of the good guys on the forum I mentioned and the facepalm guys.

Kub absolutely got me. Addressed the issue. Reflected. And made a plan on what he needed to change and even made a post about it in his journal.

The other jokers would just waffle and hide behind words, troll, and I’ll think this mofo just doesnt care enough to want to get it. And he’s on his own agenda.

So what I’m suggesting isn’t that you ‘try’ to understand, and then dismiss saying communication styles.

But that you actually understand.

There’s a joke (in not the best taste) asking what do a million domestically abused women have in common. A: An inability to listen.

But you have to care. Now you’ll go on a tangent and say “why should I care? I only care that you don’t suffer”. BUT then I’ll say Srinath said his self immolation stepped up bigtime when he added compassion (or some other similar word maybe caring, I don’t quite remember) into the mix.

More about caring in a way you are almost forced to assimilate.

I have learnt to judge harmlessness by the amount of parity and consideration I apply to others whom I come in contact with, both at work and at play, and not by merely feeling myself to be harmless. Vineeto – SC Harmless

When I’m dealing with some of the most difficult (and entitled) people on the face of the planet in my job, I just focus on listening.

In the Negotiation masterclass by Never Split the Difference author Chris Voss, he says the old model of negotiation was scramble to split and get as much. In the new model, it’s just to get the other person to say ‘you’re right’ when explaining the situation. Or some other two words to acknowledge being understood.

With this form of negotiation, all you give the other person is understanding them and then take the whole 100% and not that old 50/50 split.

If your wife doesn’t feel listened to, and you say pfft, you’re making a big deal out of nothing, I dont care, I dont care about right or wrong about what I did, why are you giving me the power to affect your emotions, etc etc, it’s not going to be a happy ending.

So yeah, caring enough about listening, parity and consideration, but actually getting the point and responding to it.

The other extreme are the facepalms on the forum. They don’t care, will carry on justifying egregious behaviours (like rick saying hurting others is still fair game in the harmlessness thread).

And nothing is addressed.

It’s not about trying to understand, but actually making the other person feel understood. THATS the success meter.

You’re really one of us, s_o_b. Dont go to the dark side with the facepalms.

Okay, listening, trying vs understanding, making the other person feel understood, caring, parity, consideration.

Next lesson - insight (fuck remorse or apology, that’s not necessary, even an intention to act differently is much more than enough).

But again, seeing the other person’s side.

If you’re having an argument with your wife, or a family member, which way it goes depends on how much the other person feels you’ve understood or gotten insight.

People take the shortcut and say I’m sorry you felt hurt, I didn’t mean to hurt you - that’s offensive and puts the onus on the person being hurt i.e. they were oversensitive.

But if you say, hey by calling you a dimwit, I crossed the line into rudeness, and I do feel a tiny bit of guilt for that.

Just be a man and put your hand up.

Kub finds he pisses anyone off, he’ll know EXACTLY where he went wrong, or if not, ACCURATELY surmise the other person is just after drama. And he will make plans to change so it doesn’t repeat.

The facepalms will justify, blame the other person, and actually ask where the fuck did I wrong, and when told they will dismiss it in some way.

Just man the fuck up and accept shit. See the reality of the situation as it is. (sure, there’s no reality, and we dont even know basics like is this real, free will or not, etc).

I’m cheeky not rude. Have the balls (like you said) to accept or acknowledge your rudeness.
When I crossed the line into rudeness (dimwit comment), I called myself out on it.
When you said all sorts of stuff about me - I put my hand up and accepted as many of them as I felt were true i.e. me also being dismissive, no straight forward answers and cherry picking answers.
Heck I even came right out and said my last time here was shitty times and I came here looking for abuse (wasn’t my superficial intention, but upon reflection, thats exactly what it was).
I’m not making stuff up - when you repeatedly said sorry not the case, I was projecting. And then saying ‘apologise for the rest of my life?!’

Integrity - I am who I am. I do the things I say I do.

Someone I knew once said, all problems in life come from integrity leaks.

Logic and accountability. Dont be like a woman. :wink:

And honesty and sincerity - if the method is valid, repeatable, replicable, then replicate it.

Dont say I haven’t tried hard enough, long enough, right enough, etc.

Then say okay, method isn’t replicable all the time, or most of the time, or even any of the time and be honest with yourself with what is replicable or not.

Ahh, could go on, but will stop there.

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I do see your side bub, you are the one that doesn’t see my side :slight_smile:

As I said, I’ve literally been there before, thinking a spiritual path was equivalent to actualism when it turned out it wasn’t.

I have first-hand knowledge about this phenomenon. You are exhibiting it perfectly on here, complete with all the misunderstandings, inconsistencies, false reasoning, failing to learn & listen, etc., that comes along with it.

Take what you wrote here and apply it directly to yourself.

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Regarding progress or lack thereof, when I was in Australia in 2018 I asked Richard what he thought about the low number of people that had become free to date, and he retorted that he was pleased that it was as many as there had been… remember that for 19 years from fall 1991 to January 2010 he was the only one… not to mention for 5,000 years of recorded human history there were none.

This was never going to be ‘snap your fingers and you’re free’ type stuff, and if my experience is indicative… and I think it is based on others’ reports… the self is extremely sneaky and will over & over again redirect energy & attention away from the goal toward other ‘important’ escapades such as attempting to convince fellow forum members of one’s righteousness.

These redirections serve to delay the ‘inevitable’ to the point that it simply doesn’t happen in one’s lifetime, and then there’s one more individual that never gets to live the freedom that is possible.

It’s up to each of us where we apply our time and attention, that’s the nice thing about being alive.

@bub if you’ve got it down so well I suggest you become free and then come back here and tell us all about how you did it rather than trying to convince us of your impetuous brilliance

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Gotta take you off the good list and put you in the troll list bro.

You act like this again, I won’t respond to you.

I’m a wall to wall idiot, what brilliance?

I throw this back at everyone else here - But why dont you become free and tell us how you did it.

I have no fucken idea about actualism. And will never have it to a level that even Srinath can accept I’ve come close to understanding.

All I know is it doesnt’ fucken work past brown belt level. It’s fantastic up to there but not after.

And the level of gobbledygook. I’ve looked into so many philisophies, and they make sense. Here Srinath can spend days, weeks or hours with me, and I doubt I’ll be any closer to understanding it.

I told him I’ll do this, this and that reading and he said that wouldn’t be enough.

I’ve read a lot of somewhat advanced material, and I can explain it to almost any 12 year old and they can understand it. Then again, talking with close minded cultists or alleluia momfuckers will get me nowhere.

And the lofty claims are not backed by evidence. What get rid of soul, awareness, social identity, or whatever words you call it.

But you guys will justify it like all get out. Some sensible guys like kub will question it and my interpretation of that isn’t that Kub will realise it and leave, but the opposite that Kub’s the closest of anyone here to get there because he’s the only really decent considerate person I’m coming across.

You remember I came here for abuse - this time around I’m trying to just reply to two people. I dont remember abusing anyone last time around, but the disgusting way a lot of people who responded on my journal at that time and now continues to be astounding.

Like they say, never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig likes it.

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If it doesn’t work past a brown belt level, how did the people that became free do it?

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Yes, that is my plan

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My whole intention and goal has been as below :

I was walking from school one day after having another shit day, all of a sudden these sorrowful emotions I was feeling reached a peak and disappeared along with ‘me’. Immediately I became aware of a perfection that was all around, it was ‘in the air’ so to speak, palpable. I looked back and saw that who ‘I’ was, was nothing but some psychological/psychic echo, the sum total of all the conditioning.

Cheers for the explanation kub.

Like I’ve said, you’re the only considerate person I’ve seen in months here. And that in itself I feel will take you closer to being free than anyone else on here.

Now that I’ve said that, the thought comes up that the only other supremely decent person I’ve seen on here is Geoffrey.

Geoffrey, Srinath, you are people who anyone would love to have a beer or coffee with.

Not specifically because you guys are so cool (you are!) but because the vibe would be a gentle, easy, warm welcoming cocoon.

As regards your childhood experience, I’m having something similar to that experience now (def not at PCE levels, or even at the level you had it as a child), where there’s magic and delight at the world and everything around me.

That there isn’t a ‘me’ and never was, and it’s just this oneness carrying me apparently forward in time, through the most wondrous life journey with what feels like the greatest possible degree of benevolence. Feelings come and go. Thoughts come and go. Actions come and go. No free will because there’s no one to have that free will. Typing happening here. Reading happening there. But no typist or reader. Took me a while to really ‘get’ that, but it feels like a genuine lived experience now.

Great career, business and creative opportunities opening up but most of all spectacularly beautiful people in my life. Srinath being one of them.

I wish you the very best in getting to that ‘destiny’ as you put it and I have absolutely no doubt that one way or another you’ll get there. Maybe not constantly but good enough.

I think that ‘destiny’ feeling you had as a child was a premonition.

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Brown belt is basically free.

I don’t think anyone’s gotten to AF - Richard’s the founder and he says the other person isn’t AF, then he’s alone on a boat in the middle of nowhere.

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You didn’t get into mud slinging, and wrote two entirely decent responses. So definitely NOT a troll.

But here’s my take - if you recognise your previous message to me as not harmless but meant to get a dig in i.e. impetuous brilliance etc, then you’re on your way there.

You justify it like the other facepalms here, you aren’t.

PS NOT asking you to justify it here, just making a rhetorical point.

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Here’s a genuine offer, in the interest of social cohesion, how about we do a video chat? I think you will find yourself talking to somebody else on video than you are via text. Or audio even. The added bandwidth of the communication might change some impressions. I genuinely don’t know if it will but I’m willing to try if you are.

Cheers,
Claudiu

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I thought I’d leave, and thought let me sit down and reflect on what makes me come back to AF.

And I have a feeling it’s the overwhelming positive aspects of it - the innocousness, the delight, the happy/harmlessness, the consideration, and I want to come back here and post about it.

And that’s what I’ve tried to do - come back and respect the method, dont shit on it (only time I’ve done that is these past few days) and explain my experiences going along with it.

My progress with happy and harmless, and HAIETMOBA.

But once I started posting about it, and naturally moved into how it tied into other realisations I got told dont mix, and then repeatedly asked to leave and come back.

But this was just a couple of trolls. Srinath did do this too. Dick move.

And there appeared to be this whole forcing me into a box i.e. the you can’t be happy with feelings, you have to get rid of them and the feeling being, have a PCE, etc etc.

And disgusting behaviours.

But this post isn’t about that.

It’s me trying to go back to what I was trying to do - if people say PCE, AF, fuck off, then I’ll have to. Can ignore trolls. But repeatedly getting the same result only means I’m the real idiot.

And that’s what I was trying to do a couple of months ago, when I said I was in a shitty place and came for abuse.

However the flip side of the coin was, No, I didnt come here for abuse. Despite all the abuse and disgusting antics, I was decent all the way through.

What I realise i came here for was, I was not feeling happy and wanted to write about what was not making me happy and a way to resolve it.

I went back and read that post and it’s such a beautiful heartfelt genuine decent post.

And that’s what I feel now.

I want to leave, but also want to stay because I want to engage more with the method. Especially the happy and harmless and HAIETMOBA parts.

BUT if I stay, I will be forced into a box again - HAVE to have PCE, AF is the only path, Dont mix it with anything else, how can you be comfortable with being a feeling being, people here are committed to releasing feeling being so you’re either with the plan or out.

And I do feel the same thing will keep happening if I do stay.

I can be the stubborn, trolls dont affect me, but what about my actions? I’m aware of my own dickishness - sure, I would say all the things I’ve said right to any friends face. Even the dimwit part. BUT in a nice tone. So happy to stand behind my actions.

BUT also realising that that’s NOT okay.

It’s me guilty of the same behaviour I’m calling people out on here. That they can be harmful and justify it in various ways i.e. like s_o_b did with he doesnt care, what right/wrong dichotomy, I can take it, different value systems, etc etc etc.

I hate wanton aggression in people and that’s only because its a core part of my being.

I was thinking be peaceful with whatever comes up or however I show up.

I didnt like the irritable annoyed part of me, but like I said when I think about times I was annoyed before, I get annoyed again. So it was appropriate.

I go back and read the October 23 exchange and a growing self respect comes in, despite all the shit that was going through at home on holiday,

But my actions the last few days leave me feeling decidedly uncomfortable. Just fucken laying into people like I did with s_o_b. He was a class act with his responses to be fair.

I was like this in college, and even now - Bub with his ‘dose’ - that truth bomb that no one with a shred of sense (alleluia momfuckers and cultists apart) can argue with. But I also felt it was the most helpful thing I could possibly say and that was okay.

BUT like Richard says, I’m still torn with guilt for some of my ‘doses’ years or decades later.

I will repeat anything I said, because I meant it, but definitely not happy with the way I said it.

More recently, I’ve been justifying my callous behaviour even more by saying, hey that’s how oneness is showing up.

But that same oneness is also showing up now as remorse.

s_o_b you aren’t narcissistic, but yes, you are a dickhead and a dimwit. But I’m the same too.

And I guess I justify the ‘dose’ as me saying the most helpful thing I can. But why antagonise people?

It’s like we all know the alleluia motherfuckers or cultists are cuckoo - but if we go out of our way to tell them they are, everybody will say nope, it’s us who were the idiots.

I went to a mens group workshop, Mankind Project and I left with a counter intuitive realisation that masculinity is softness (also core values like integrity, responsibility, accountability, reliability).

But yeah, softness.

I admire the soft chill people, and I can be like that 90% of the time, but a voice comes up and says, nope, you’re in a souk (english slang for sulk) all day annoyed about something or the other.

Its saying being annoyed is my default state.

That’s not a new realisation, but its’ never sunk in like it’s doing now.

And going back to wanton aggression. Why? For what? (I’m talking about MY) wanton aggression. Clear here with s_o_b and the trolls.

I dont know about leaving the forum, but I guess the major driver in me leaving the forum is not really space for my journey (the trolls can fuck right off (see I do it again and justify it by saying they deserve it).

As for my opinion on trolls, I do feel sorry for them.

The good guys go around just naturally being liked, and if anone dislikes them, it’s only because they don’t know them. Once they know them, they can pour the charm on and turn almost anyones opinion around (unless it’s people the good guys dont really like).

Heck, the good guys can fucken just lay into someone. I can be at a party (with people who know me not strangers) and can randomly lay into someone and everyone will be peaceful with it a minute later and we’ll all be laughing. I can be exceptionally rude to someone and it can be ignored by everybody and they will move on like nothing happened. EVEN the guy I’m being rude to.

Whilst the trolls have to live this life of feeling the opposite inherently unlikeable and I would absolutely hate to live a life like that.

Just like happened with s_o_b and me. I was rude to him, he didnt give a shit and he was rude to me and I didnt give a shit. BUT here’s the kicker, through all that, through our vastly different headspaces and value heirarchies, we have fucken nothing in common, there’s an easy affection that was built.

On the flip side, with the trolls, people will get ticked off with them for literally doing nothing. And that’s why they become trolls maybe. To justify other peoples reactions. They stop being trolls, maybe people will still not like them.

So yeah, major driver for me leaving the forum is not trolls, is not being forced into a box, not having space for my journey (who gives a shit about all that I can ignore it) - the major driver to leave will be me being a dick. OR getting no value here.

I really need to look more deeply into harmlessness. That’s my current goal.

And not in the some harm and hurt is justified way that the facepalms use it. Or the lack of insight, remorse, regret or intention or even recognition of need to change that they have.

But that the goal is that my conscience is clear and not pricked for yonks.

Like I’ve learnt over and over again, only two real goals in life.

Being kind to myself and others. And practical self care, towards myself and others.

Just be kind otherwise my conscience will poke and prod me.

I grow to think of my dad and he used to be this absolute dick. Wife beating, child beating, daily drinking (sure normal 2 large shots but still daily drinking, which he still does).

BUT over the last ten years, he’s become supremely non confrontational.

I have this thing about having to be honest and helpful, hence the ‘dose’, but the dose is delivered with such a gleeful punch only to be followed by the inevitable remorse.

Maybe I should just become like my dad - version 2.0 of him at least.

Ouch, another realisation, I enjoy hurting people. BUT guilt after.

I read the harmlessness thread, and thought it was poppycock. Trolls just justifying themselves.

Okay, gotta start now. No more using the words trolls, or facepalms, and really dont need to refer to them at all.

Harmlessness. Let’s see how we get along with that. Harmlessness and softness. That’s the dream version of me!

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Also I was usually not able to, or willing to, explain clearly what I was being emotional about. Telling the whole story of my ‘upset’ would take away the mystery that secured my power, and often the man would put down my emotional reaction as inappropriate and irrational, thus adding fuel to the fire. So I wouldn’t talk about the actual issue and consequently didn’t bother to find out for myself what exactly were my emotions and what were the reasons that triggered them. I can now understand and acknowledge how I had used my psychic and emotional power in all my relationships to win the ‘battle’, if only temporarily, and to take revenge for hurts, disappointments and frustrations.

Since I had already agreed to discard battling as the solution, it was obvious that I had to give up the fight first. If I want peace I can’t wait for the other to start to lay down his arms. This does not work. I have to give up battling because the battle itself is the problem. The solution is not to try and change somebody else, but to look into the very cause of my own unhappiness. Once this condition was understood and agreed upon, we could both cease battling, sit down and talk about any situation that caused disagreement.

Now I would not only ask myself, ‘how do I feel?’ but also question the very necessity of having this feeling. Understanding that emotion itself was a major component of my (female) identity, and of my ‘self’, allowed me to explore what lies behind any upcoming emotion – what thought, what belief, what investment, what instinct. By examining the validity of the underlying cause I was then able to eliminate the subsequent emotions, one by one, including the greatest and holiest of them all: Love itself.

Now I just find the most sensible way of being happy and harmless which, of course, includes considering everyone who is part of the particular situation. For me, this also involves cleaning myself up so I can be free of misery and malice – not contributing to the chaos people usually create for each other. Everybody seems to live everybody else’s life, perpetuating the cycle of misery by consolation, sympathy, empathy and compassion – thus helping people to stay helpless. I can supply practical help if someone asks me to, but I am not responsible for anybody else’s happiness and neither is anybody else responsible for my happiness. It makes life much less complicated if I stop trying to find the solution for ‘S.E.P.’, ‘Someone Else’s Problem’ and focus my intent and effort on becoming happy and harmless.

I remember my last disagreement with Peter nine months ago. I had just come back from overseas and, although I still had rented a house to live in, I decided to live with him. I had shifted my belongings into his flat, but one evening I got the wind up! Scared of the new adventure ahead of me I felt the ‘poor victim’ of being trapped in a place where I suddenly didn’t want to be. What I wanted was the solace of Peter’s love, which should bridge the expected difficult times, and his reassurance that everything would be all right. I used all my old manipulation skills to convince Peter to see the situation my way and offer me comfort and sympathy.

But he simply responded, ‘Look, I know you are an independent woman and perfectly capable of looking after yourself. If you don’t want to be here this evening, you could go. The car is downstairs, you still pay rent for the other place – you are free to go there any time!’ This simple stating of the facts switched on my intelligence again. Well, this was obviously the case. It meant I had a choice in the situation; I was responsible for myself, instead of being a victim of the circumstances. I could change the situation without his help. Out of this clarity I realised that I chose to be with him because I wanted to be! It brought me straight back into the actual situation, and all need for comfort, compromise, manipulating and changing the other simply disappeared into thin air.

And what a relief it was, that I had no power over Peter, no way to make him do what I wanted! I could not bend him in any direction because he wasn’t afraid to be on his own. Thus, my tools in the power battle had failed and could finally be thrown out of the window. Also, I discovered that I wasn’t afraid to be on my own either. So in our relationship we do not need to win the battle of ‘dependency’, we can focus on each of us being here – where we can meet freely and enjoy each other’s company whenever we want to.

My traditional response to the feeling of being trapped had been that the man should give me his love and reassurance. But the way to the intimacy that I had already experienced and wanted to have with Peter all the time, was that I had to question, examine and eliminate the notorious bunch of feelings called love. Peter’s description of our adventure into freedom and intimacy is certainly not just a male point of view. Did he love me enough or not, or did I love him enough or not, was not the question – I discovered that love was not the solution but the problem itself!

The answer again lay 180 degrees in the opposite direction to what I had come to know up to now. I had expected or assumed someone was to love my ‘grotty self’, when even I could not stand those parts of me! A person who ‘loves me’ is supposed to accept all those ‘quirks of my personality’, which no intelligent human being would be able to put up with without blind nature’s intoxication known as ‘being in love’. And for years I had tried the same with the men I had ‘loved’, without success or happiness, let alone lasting intimacy. Intimacy can only happen when there is no emotion, no feeling or projection in the way between us. So, one of the first things that we discovered to be in the way of actual intimacy were the feelings of love – that sweet syrup that was usually poured over the spiky, malicious, miserable ‘self’, which I was most of the time!

I decided there and then to face the challenge, to abandon the love-dream and go for the actual experience – meeting another human being as intimately as possible instead of looking up to him and waiting for him to be the ‘hero of my dreams’.

That very evening the situation changed. My pining stopped. The fog in the head cleared. My expectations disappeared. I could again stand on my own feet and equally enjoy the time when I was by myself. I had recovered my autonomy – my autonomy in the sense that I am the only one in my life who is responsible for my happiness.

Detecting and debunking the romantic dream placed the first big dent into the wobbling monster of love. Now it was much easier to look at what it was in my ‘self’ that cried out for this love. It has been quite scary at times, to rid myself of the very identity I had as a woman. What would be left of me when I didn’t feel love? How could I relate both to Peter and other people, if not with emotion or intuition? What would I have to offer in friendships or conversations, if not sympathy and consolation? My whole edifice of ‘who’ I was, who I believed myself to be, began to crumble in a heap as I questioned and demolished the attributes of love and emotion. Now naked of all those characteristics and beliefs as well as their resultant emotions and behaviour, which have kept man and woman apart for millennia, I am experiencing for the first time in my life actual intimacy with a man. Now there are no dreams, no expectations, no emotions or any other restrictions that could cloud the thrill of meeting another human being. Now instead of random moments of ‘sweet love’ I am able to give Peter my full attention and clean attentiveness each time we communicate, and so does he.

Even after dismissing love as a concept or an option of relating, I still had to be watchful of my ‘love-attacks’, as I called them. They would come through the backdoor, seduce me with a rose-colored mood and appear so nice and cosy – such a temptation to surrender back into loving Peter instead of meeting him directly. However, I had understood and experienced often enough that any feeling for the other, howsoever sweet and soothing, would only make him a projected imaginary figure on my own screen of emotions, which can so easily change at the slightest whim. It had nothing to do with the actual person or situation.

Examining it closer I discovered that this need for an anchor derives from the female instinct for protection. Only when I feel ‘connected’ to a person can I keep up the illusion that I can rely on this person for ‘bad times’. However, whenever I managed not to fall into the trap of love – what a delight then to discover the actual person, thrilling, alive, meeting for the first time and not knowing what either of us is going to say or do next!

There is no separation caused by us being in different camps, where the man never understands the woman and vice versa. When Peter talks about an issue, an experience or how he perceives a situation I know exactly what he is talking about, and so does he when I tell my story.

The actual permanent intimacy we enjoy now is vastly superior to any temporary good feelings of love, which we both had experienced before.

When I tried to tell Peter about my experiences and insights his simple response gave me quite a shock. ‘But all this is just inside your mind, it is simply your own interpretation, it may appear to be real, but it is not actual.’ Yes, that was true. I could easily see that I was inside the ‘mind’, roaming about in the different chambers of my assembled beliefs-systems, trying to find the one that was ‘right’ and ‘true’ – while in fact, I was just having a little grander and unusually complex perception of this huge labyrinth of thoughts and feelings! I could see more of my ideas or concepts and other people’s ideas, but they were simply ideas. None of them had any relevance to the actuality of the physical world!

I heard myself saying to Richard that ‘We’ve got all the time in the world’ and when I contemplated on the sentence that had just slipped out, time suddenly stood still.

I stopped in mid-sentence and the ensuing silence caught the attention of my two companions.

It was all over, in an instant!

There was no fear, no experience of death, no physical phenomena or changes, just the realization that I have always been here in this eternal moment in time, in this luminous magical world, more naked than I was born and utterly safe.

The stillness in my head was palpable (and has remained so ever since). Richard asked me a few test-questions to confirm what just had happened. We exchanged a few notes of how it is to live in this actual world and we found that our experiences matched.

99

I was wondering about what got in the way of my happiness and I realised it’s my constant annoyance.

And if this is the way I spend most of my time in the now, where’s the space for joy and happiness.

The answer soon arose and said that I should just stop engaging with annoying trains of thought.

Also keeping convo simple, minimal or absent with toxic people. Shutting people out of my life was also incredibly freeing in terms of negative energy lost.

And that’s suddenly gotten me back to feeling good again.

It’s astounding how the joy rushes back in when the annoyance is not encouraged. It was as easy as thinking of something else. (An old distraction technique I called the keychain technique with distressed ex girlfriends).

Maybe it’s ingrained and inculcated with the woke culture nonsense, and in some ways we’re all bad enough in our own ways.

I had a super challenging, but rewarding week at work. Great interactions with colleagues and clients.

On a high now the weekend is here.

Hah! I’ll probably spend it on the laptop.

Suddenly my life opens up with appreciation for the magic I’ve been dropped into.

I work in a respected job. Paid outrageously. I’m living with a housemate (first time in years) in one of the best cities in the world (world’s most beautiful cage I call it). Fantastic relationships with fantastic colleagues. I provide fantastic value everywhere I work (even if I say so meself) and they hate to see me go. It’s the UK - laziness is endemic. So an actual solid worker who pays attention to salient details and also keeps people in mind is rare. Or so that’s the story I tell myself to feel I deserve the amount I earn.

BUT I lose this job in a week (permanent coming in (vs my freelance work), and next job I have no idea where. I can pick and choose from a range in the best places. Might have to cross the river, so they’ll get me acco there and I can chill out five days a week because I can’t be arsed traveling a measly hour or so each way to work. Even if its a joy riding to work on my fancy schmancy cruiser motorcycle and big city traffic is a breeze on it.

I have a balls to the walls fantastic flatmate. American guy. Was earning $100k a year. Doing a PhD in war studies. Played pro football (can’t call it soccer) for a championship side. Fell 70 metres free solo climbing (told him he deserves it). Still relatively normally mobile but he still has to have operations. We have a system at home that just works.

He’s one of the absolute nicest people I’ve ever met. And will go out of his way to make it happen to make me happy. I told him (quite firmly ‘Dude, we got to sort this out’ when it was happening repeatedly) that I was being woken up when he used the loo (I have the en suite). My wall would shake no matter how he shuts his door. So now he sleeps with his door open.

I’m the same. I would go out of my way to do anything for him.

The first person in my life I know I can absolutely rely on. We haven’t had a single argument since we me almost 6 months ago because we have a zero tolerance policy on giving each other shit.

We’ve kept track, one of is at 1.5 and the other at 2.5 in all this time (actually once each where each of us just snapped at the other).

Super nice guy, yes. But also sickest player I know. A new one every few days. He had a dry spell for three months and I told him he was doing it on purpose (he’d forgotten condoms in his room when his latest one had arrived). Bam! He’s back on track and chugging them back.

He’s just broken up after a three year relationship with a ball breaker, so fair play to him.

But he’s now lost his job. Working US job and UK student visa made his new HR veep anxious.

I told him I got his back and would match his salary. He said he’d be happy with 60% less.

But I don’t need him in my business just yet, because I want to go slow with the first baby. He’s the guy who can get me 6-7. But has no experience with this field (which is mine). I’ve told him to be humble and not a ‘stupid american’ And not act like he knows everything about everything. He soon will. But not just yet. .

I came up with a rule that we can say anything to each other, the only test it should pass is that we should both be laughing. I called him a lying, cheating slut and he said I was mean to him and I say sure I’m mean BUT we’re both laughing and he laughs and says it’s still mean.

I’ve already paid for 6 months of rent and said he can pay me back anytime. And he’s been upto date the 6 months we’ve lived together.

He’s tried to explain numbers to me. But I’ve held my hand up saying fuck it. I’m not intersted.

I once asked him a couple of test questions, and his answers were super assuring that every single penny was coming back.

He pays for the weekly maid, and I pay all the utlities.

Leave work and I have this guy to look forward to spending time with. Told him what a difference it was from having a girlfriend who I would dread coming home to.

He was talking about plan A, plan B and all that after his job loss.

I said fuck that, Plan A is to make me rich, plan B is to make him rich. He’s capable enough to get us both there. In spades. But needs a bit of direction and belief. So absolute fucken magic building up there.

Business is wildly expensive. four staff for $20k, manager for $50k. Plus additionally didn’t think i’d have to pay his $40k salary. But all peacefully doable. Clever intercompany tax free loan plans. I’ve earned all the money, but have to account for it fastidously. Then I can pull major shit off. The Ltd Co is the get out clause. Have to keep my nose clena and play the game.

I have a business mentor who’s coached multiple people through this path. A manager who says he will get all the staff. The business is in a sweet spot that I know is lucrative and has a supply and demand issue. I know. Because in my day job, I’m desperate for that service. All on track. Viewing the office site tomorrow and have already decided to rent it. It’s that good.

I’ve got the absolute best human beings to have as friends (as another common friend referred to all of us).

First draft of book complete. And will soon sign up with a not inexpensive branding consultant and do ALL she says.

Entertainment from steam deck gaming, and super city living.

I’m a foodie, so have the best cooking gadgets giving me the most delish food.

Often order from super delish meal prep companies.

My juice fixation comes with the thermomix that can make some mean squashes.

System for my clothes out (when I’m about to run out of undies and socks is my signal) and go the the laundry.

I dress like the shyt, only because i have a phenomenal stylist.

I saw a pic of Srinath with his daughter, and i thought if that was me my heart would just burst. But family isn’t for me. I’d just walk. Freedom is too important.

So single for life. And this is new for a die hard romantic like me. And I scratch that itch with a couple of long distance relationships (they know about the other (and I dont care who they see) that I can always pick up and call. Even if I can’t sleep with them, whatsapp video call sex fills a bit of the urge. A strange block to having sex in the UK though.

That’s just a slice of my present moment. I could go on and on. The future appears even more magical and I’m moving like the taurean bull that I am relentless towards it. But future is a fantasy.

But THIS is the absolutely magical slice of oneness I’ve been dropped into.

THIS is the everpresent THIS that is HAPPENING.

Jesus, how lucky can I be.

I know how lucky. Pretty much every single moment of the last few years has felt like this. Filled with absolute magic.

And to spend almost all my time annoyed, looking for drama - it takes two people to make drama. Of course, I can make it happen in my own head too. But jaysus, how much time spent on energy draining annoyances. Sure, they’re addictive. But like junk food. Make you feel good now, and crap later.

I’ve been reading Vineeto’s and other AF stuff and it’s a magical read. I made a list of notes and penned it as my last message. Will write about my reflections on that soon.

Could go on and on. BUT lots and lots of magic happening. And jeeesus, even more to come.

Absolutely. Exquisite.

100

Nice, I like your zest for life

1 Like
101

Yeah, I think reading Vineeto’s story really opened things up for me.

I was wondering what would come up, or what I would replace annoyance (and battling) with.

And I realise, thankfully, my default baseline is a zest for life. That’s why this journal is called b2wf balls to the wall fantastic.

But c’mon, one shot at this amazing world we have in front of us, and how can anyone not be absolutely awestruck by how spectacularly beautiful it is.