Ok, that is clearer. I personally don’t find communication with you easy or straight forward or easy as I do with say @Srinath, maybe a clash of communication styles.
I am not trying to hurt you at all, I don’t know you from Adam or Eve. I am simply trying to understand you and when I am being dismissive it is for a reason not a slight against you individually but by the types of aspects I have already rejected in life which I have tried to be explicit about and why I have rejected those aspects. I too find you not easy to communicate with, that you don’t acknowledge or respond to certain things selectively.
I can talk about anything and everything, there is nothing sacred or unquestionable to me. You might be right I definitely don’t deny that but there isn’t much else that has any value or appeal to me personally. Nothing to me that seems in alignment with the experience of a PCE at least. Srinath doesn’t deny the life changing aspect of the PCE, right? And what is gleaned from that experience. If some optimised means of achieving freedom is found then I am all ears.
Of course, to be a self is to be self absorbed, as it the case with human beings in general. I am not happy and harmless, I am aiming for it and often falling short but I am sincere and honest with myself when I have done so. For me I can feel that fear so frightened that you now won’t like me.
I saw Richards input and agreed but my baseline was lower, I was aiming for getting to a more stable position mentally first, which has been the case of late and I am super happy to be at, because depression and anxiety really sucks balls. I genuinely didn’t intend to upset you or annoy you. Even if we don’t agree on aspects, I still wish you the best whatever you do with your life.
but I am sincere and honest with myself when I have done so.
Bollocks. If you were, that would be insight. Hallelujah.
For me I can feel that fear so frightened that you now won’t like me.
Gobbledygook. What the fuck is this even supposed to mean?
I genuinely didn’t intend to upset you or annoy you.
But there’s still absolutely no insight (forget remorse, or empathy).
Dude, you might feel I’m hard to communicate with, but I’m a super clear communicator, and balls to the fucken wall charm is one of my skills. I just get along with people. Sure, I annoy the everloving fuck out of them too. But most of the time, intentionally and happily so, and in a way that rapport isn’t broken, but often gets stronger. Because intentions are usually decent.
Even in my annoyed last email, I’m saying the most absolutely helpful things I can say. Basically open your minds up to the reality of what a shitshow this forum and you guys can be.
I don’t even know why I’m writing this when I said I’d be away. Maybe I’m enjoying being in the right and rubbing it in.
Same old same old like I said. Cut and paste my words. Some gobbledygook reply that doesn’t remotely address what I’m saying.
SPACE FOR JOURNEY.
PCE IS NOT A FUCKEN ISSUE. THEY ARE AWESOME EVEN IF I HAVENT HAD ONE.
DONT SAY COME AF IS.A WELCOMING SPACE AND IN THE SAME BREATH SAY ONLY AF OR LEAVE THE FORUM.
Insight man, even with shouting it’s impossible to get on here I know. But like I said, that’s the nature of cultists.
Lets all just leave each other alone, yeah. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.
PS Ahh, now I know why I’m replying to you. Because there’s nuggets of a decent guy inside (and why I wont reply to Claudiu again). Can’t say it of too many others here maybe kubs for sure, and a couple of others. So yeah, maybe there’s hope for you yet.
@bub I’ve been contemplating what you wrote today and I have to say there is something there, I have been trying to put my finger on it. Your bashing of the state of the forum reminded me of some things that @Srinath has brought up recently too, around the time of the global warming discussion.
The fact is that for a few years no-one has managed to become actually free, there are guys who have been into this for 10 or more years and they are still neither actually free nor able to apply the method each moment again. This includes me, I first came across actual freedom when I was 18, then I had some time off but for the last 4 or so years it has been a dedication of mine and still no cigar, both in terms of actual freedom and in terms of feeling good each moment again.
I really don’t think it is for lack of trying either, and there is only so many times someone can link you to the HAIETMOBA article and advise to read it again. Richard was able to devise a method to get there and he was able to use it to become actually free but the replicability of the method has been extremely low so far. Sure you can say that maybe they didn’t sincerely want it etc but when so many people try and fail where do you point the finger?
Where you write that Srinath is looking at other methods (I don’t know the extent to which this is accurate) I am not shocked or upset by this, at the end of the day we are all here for a reason and it seems it is not working. The problem is that actual freedom is such a recent development that the numbers are very low, essentially we are following a method that was devised by a single person and which has since been successfully replicated by a very low number of people.
With such low numbers and such low replicability how can we have confidence that the current method is the most successful (in allowing others to become free)? The fact is that it has worked for Richard and also a handful of other people, but it is also a fact that many more people have tried since and failed miserably.
Which leads to what you mention about it being cult-like. I am starting to see the danger of this in myself, of the actualist identity, of lacking originality.
This is all kind of hazy at the moment still but there is something there. Like we are putting the horse before the cart, with the method becoming just another layer that has been assimilated into the identity. But it seems that there has to be something much more original in the individual to go all the way.
I had this thought today that kind of summarises what I am trying to convey (very poorly ) :
I thought to myself that it would be the best possible outcome if being an actualist, the actual freedom trust and the rest of it some day soon fades into some obscure corner of history, of ‘what once was’. Why? Because the human condition has been eradicated, people live in actual peace and harmony and now what is the actual freedom method? Merely something that had to be devised to end sorrow and malice.
Lol, that made me chuckle my mum would always say bollocks if she didn’t believe me or siblings and she rarely sweared so had more impact. Not always immediately and in the moment but eventually the awareness and insight comes in. For example, when I have snapped and been malicious to my kids. But this is a limitation of awareness and self reflection, I am not going to feel extra bad about it lol. Sometimes the emotions push and pull us. However, if you have insight into the human condition you know there is not a little me inside my head that needs to be punished, it is the stupidity of blind nature that has let all of the shitty behaviours manifest, including my failures and shitty choices. So, if I have a blindpsot and am being malicious I guess it won’t be too much of a squeeze to ask you to forgive me. I am very much a work in progress.
Lol, I thought I was being pretty clear, I was explaining how the interaction has made me feel and what I noticed arise in me. Like that need to never question or challenge anybody, 10 years ago I wouldn’t even interacted with you at all, for fear or risk of some conflict or disagreement. There wouldn’t even be a conversation so we wouldn’t know what we even agree or disagree on. You’d probably like me more back then lol.
It sucks if I do something that makes you feel bad don’t get me wrong but its also not the be all and end all or that big a deal really, right? Maybe thats a downside of my having suffered physically and psychologically, I don’t really see it that big deal when a fellow human feels bad a little over some minor disagreement. There are worse things and states possible lol.
I don’t value human feelings anyway, which automatically makes me a dick I know. Some chemical reactions popping in your brain making you feel x, y or z, what if instead of feeling annoyed by comments they made you gut laugh or terrified that you couldn’t finish reading it, there can be any type of unpredictable reaction to me, why feel anyway about anything is what I am trying to get at.
It sucks if I have done something that hurts you emotionally because I don’t want to add more suffering into the universe but you know I am not responsible for how you feel ultimately either, if you choose to let me make you feel bad thats still on you too, for letting me have that power over you. But I also don’t blame you or somebody else if they make me feel bad. I use my insight to take ownership of my own emotional responses.
Some people feel bad if you tell them a fact that contradicts their belief, am I bad guy for that. Must I spend the rest of my existence apologising and seeking remorse for whoever I upset or hurt whether intentional or not?
I can relate to that myself too in life, in my relations with people but you still don’t answer straight forward questions like what you believe, what you have experienced, etc, so it is kind of nebulous as to what you think or feel on a lot of points and so its hard to really explore anything. Is it that you don’t want a microscope put under what you think and feel and believe? Much of my more openness in communication was influenced by seeing @Srinath’s posts because it resonated with me that he would never deflect from a question or his own thoughts irregardless of the group reaction.
Come on man, that is the human condition of course we know the forum and us can be a shitshow we are not that naive and your not the first or last to realise this. Hell, the last forum the owner just had a rage and wiped the whole forum and I at that time thought of the guy as a friend and somebody who might like me lol. You can’t even know how somebody thinks or feels about you, uncertainty abounds.
I don’t really view life in terms of right or wrong. Seems pretty over simplisitic to me. You mean right or wrong in some moral sense?
That is what people do when replying in forums, that is what I do when responding on technical forums or other subjects because I want to reference something or ask a particular question. If something isn’t clear then ask for further clarity, if you find something gobbledygook, again English can be ambiguous at times, then I will try and explain myself and that is how I communicate. That is me individually and has nothing to do with AF or the forum in general, I have been communicating like that in forums since the 90s before the very first AF forum came into existence, seems a common way people interact just we have annoyed/hurt you it seems, so you got to make it like its some AF collective group issue lol.
I never really care about such things as whether AF is a welcoming space. I guess to me its more about the facts and authenticity of experiences and their usefulness and applicability to me, more in a practical sense not in some does it make me feel welcome or invited. I am not a very welcoming person and I don’t speak for AF or some collective, I am just me. My default tends to be people are cunts until they prove to me otherwise, a typically negative distrustful view of people but I guess it protected me in life from a lot of narcissists or dickheads.
Again what does space for your journey mean exactly? Am I not allowed to question you or challenge you? You don’t want certain types of communication, it is not very explicit, apologies if being a bit thick.
If you don’t like me then have the balls to say it, dont hide behind some cultist excuse. Fuck that, I can think clearly and discern for myself thanks as I always have with the benefit of being raised free of any religion or spirituality. If you want to point out where you don’t think that is the case then do so lol. If I encountered something I didn’t agree with regarding Richards description of the perpetual PCE I would be looking elsewhere to figure out how the PCE can be extended. That doesn’t negate all the other aspects I have learned about myself and the human condition in my lifetime. It is disingenous of you to assume my life realisations are somehow dependent on being a member of some random forum.
I am sure there is. Theres also a side of me full of rage and fury that wants the whole world to burn out and die out, another reason to want to change I guess. See what a mess and bag of contradictions it can be to be a human being.
You might be onto what’s been going on for the past year, at least. I may be talking out of my ass here honestly, and I’m trying to piece together the puzzle for myself while talking about it, but it seems like a lot of navel-gazing and very little action recently. More than normal even?
I used to be a lot more perplexed by the analyzing going on among ‘actualists’ but it seems even I’ve become sedate lately and it’s completely anathema to what (I thought) was my explicit goal of AF and beyond. I’ve even felt compelled the past week to do a Felix () and just tell everyone to Just Fucking Do It.
In the end, dunno. This thread was spicy enough to wake me up a bit. While the discussions about the purpose of this forum have been going on since the inception it still seems like it hasn’t gotten out of the holding pattern, non?
Being realistic and getting back to the art of Just Fucking Doing It, the information should be enough by now. Anyone who’s had a PCE should know what to do. I don’t even get what’s stopping me myself anymore and it grinds my gears that I can’t get past the impasse. Actualist identity might be one of the clues.
RICHARD: Update: In regards to the “Magical Mystery Tour” thread, Richard did *not * say “no one on the forum seemed to be practicing the actualism method” (or anything of the ilk) – obviously they are and this alone is immensely pleasing – as what he *did * say was ‘Nobody has taken-up the challenge to enjoy and appreciate being alive, each moment again come-what-may, for the remainder of their life’. Global Warming
In any case bub appears to have struck a nerve with some here and it’s certainly worthwhile to ponder upon what all that may entail. Never was there an actualist successful without getting into some ‘spicy’ stuff. Not for the faint of heart & weak of knee & all that.
I’ve been dismissive towards you too, and not giving you straight forward answers. I’ve been cherry picking the most absolute bollocks I see you spout and pointing it out.
Straight answers. Authenticity. Integrity. I gotta walk the walk, before asking anyone else.
But if you do reply, then there’s a not so trick question for you at the end. Based on how you answer, I’ll make a choice whether to engage with you or not. Sounds like I’m being an uppity twat, but please wait till the end for the non trick test question.
However, if you have insight into the human condition you know there is not a little me inside my head that needs to be punished, it is the stupidity of blind nature that has let all of the shitty behaviours manifest, including my failures and shitty choices.
You know, I used to be really hard on myself for a ton of shit I did and mostly didn’t do but upon reflection I realise old bub made all the right right and right wrong choices and fair play to him.
I can’t even think of a single incident or choice in my past that didn’t turn out spectacularly well.
I now think, there’s no bub, never was, there’s just oneness flowing and the shitty parts, and feelings, are also importing to move the story forward. Just like a novel protagonists choices must be believable. (non AF non dual spiel if you can excuse me doing so).
So, if I have a blindpsot and am being malicious I guess it won’t be too much of a squeeze to ask you to forgive me. I am very much a work in progress.
Hah, fuck you Jack. It’s not going to be that easy.
That’s so like Srinath’s shitty way out of fuck ups. Hey, sorry to have offended you that’s not my intention.
Fuck the apology, who gives a shit. We want insight.
Where were you offensive, or rude - you clock that right, that’s ten times better than a throw and go apology or forgiveness neither of us really gives a shit about.
Lol, I thought I was being pretty clear,
No you fucken weren’t clear. In the words of the great Samuel L Jackson - ENGLISH MOTHERFUCKER! DO YOU SPEAK IT?! (now I’m being cheeky)
Is this even remotely gramatically correct?
How the fuck does the above gobbledygook relate to the below example? Dont answer. its’ a rhetorical question.
I was explaining how the interaction has made me feel and what I noticed arise in me. Like that need to never question or challenge anybody, 10 years ago I wouldn’t even interacted with you at all, for fear or risk of some conflict or disagreement. There wouldn’t even be a conversation so we wouldn’t know what we even agree or disagree on. You’d probably like me more back then lol.
I don’t really see it that big deal when a fellow human feels bad a little over some minor disagreement. There are worse things and states possible lol.
Of course you dont care. You say no harmful intentions, downplay the rudeness as a charming cheekiness, ask for forgiveness without having the slightest clue where you might have gone off piste.
Dude, whether I significantly hurt you, or mildly offend you, I’d still like to reflect and change for the future. Because most people do. But you clearly aren’t most people. Now, this is cheekiness. Yours was downright rudeness and stepped up gears on that too.
I don’t value human feelings anyway, which automatically makes me a dick I know.
ahh, again, of course you don’t care. But now you are being sincere, and honest and there’s no way I can dismiss you or say bollocks. The tinest smattering of insight. Hallelujah.
It sucks if I have done something that hurts you emotionally
Dude, you’re like one of those Alleluia motherfuckers (which is what my friend calls the jesus saved my life evangelists). How in the world can you cause me the remotest bit of suffering.
This thread (exhausting though it is to communicate with closed minded people who are ostensibly incapable of listening) has been the highlight of my day.
I might not have learnt jack, but wow, what a wonderful tangled web of emotions. Frustration, annoyance, disbelief, bewilderment, amusement, fun, and even affection (which I’ll address again).
But I also don’t blame you or somebody else if they make me feel bad. I use my insight to take ownership of my own emotional responses.
Most ‘normal’ people (we’ve clearly established you’re an outlier, you dont care if you mildly offend people, dont value human feelings, and really dont give enough of a shit.
The core issue if I may cut to the chase is listening, and hearing. Look how easily Kubs got me. Solid, decent, authentic guy.
Not your ignoramus ostrich head in sand ass high up in the air bollix.
Some people feel bad if you tell them a fact that contradicts their belief, am I bad guy for that. Must I spend the rest of my existence apologising and seeking remorse for whoever I upset or hurt whether intentional or not?
Look at the extreme levels of obfuscation here. I find it mind blowing how someone can be so deliberately obtuse?
Dude, what fucken fact? Which belief of mine did you shit on (I dont remember it)? You had one PCE and are nowhere near HAIETMOBA or happy and harmless and acting like a know it all. Not as bad as Claudiu, who actually had the gall to say he should be the closest one on the forum to getting to AF/BF.
But obfuscation point to be addressed - again, the complete inability to get the fucken point, misinterpret it, and fucken run along to la la land.
Who the fuck is asking you to spend the rest of your existence apologising? Even here, i said I couldn’t give less of a shit about an apology.
It’s insight and listening. Getting the fucken point. Getting me to go, fuck man, son of bub, you really got me. I’m powerless in front of anyone who truly understands me, as we all are methinks.
Not this la la land runaround - apologising and showing remorse forever? Where the fuck did you pick this up from?
It’s about knowing and realising when you hurt someone and why they felt hurt. Like I said, that’s ten times better than an apology.
I can relate to that myself too in life, in my relations with people but you still don’t answer straight forward questions like what you believe, what you have experienced, etc, so it is kind of nebulous as to what you think or feel on a lot of points and so its hard to really explore anything.
Listen dude, Kubs got me. He read the same thing as you.
So really you can’t make this about me anymore, we’re gradually getting to the crux of the matter - it’s your unwillingness to listen, hide behind words (cheeky vs rude), run along to la la land, make shit up as you go along (like you’ve repeatedly said you’ve projected), obfuscation, obtuseness.
all just one thing, and unwillingness to listen, make shit up and run along with it.
Come on man, that is the human condition of course we know the forum and us can be a shitshow we are not that naive and your not the first or last to realise this.
But again, you dismiss it. It’s not about it being a shit show, but understanding in what way it is a shitshow. Insight.
Not about apologising, but about what the heck you’re actually being a dick about.
I don’t really view life in terms of right or wrong. Seems pretty over simplisitic to me. You mean right or wrong in some moral sense?
English motherfucker, DO. YOU. SPEAK. IT. (hah, couldn’t resist going there again).
I mean right as in being in the right. As simple as it gets.
Again, this complete inability to get the point. It’s simple. I’m enjoying being in the right because I know you’re in the wrong.
The alleluia motherfucker thinks he’s found salvation, we all know he’s following one of the most murderous, sin filled religions the world has ever seen.
I’m likening you to the alleluia motherfucker.
I never really care about such things as whether AF is a welcoming space.
I know right, why be nice, welcoming, polite, kind, happy and patient, and all those things.
Okay, exhausted. Won’t
My default tends to be people are cunts until they prove to me otherwise, a typically negative distrustful view of people but I guess it protected me in life from a lot of narcissists or dickheads.
Now you’re projecting because that’s exactly how you come across. Like a narcissist, dickhead (youre too much of a dimwit (now I’ve crossed over into rudeness) to be a cunt) - who cares about right or wrong. I wont tell you about who cares, but I’ll definitely tell you who doesnt - People who score for psychopathy on the gold standard Hare psychopathy checklist.
If you don’t like me then have the balls to say it, dont hide behind some cultist excuse.
Dude, like I said, I’m only replying to you because I think there’s a nugget of a decent guy inside.
I take it back.
I actually liked you (even had a tiny bit of affection) till I started replying to this and when I hear repeatedly I dont care, I dont care, and making shit up, and obfuscation, I think you know what, this guy actually is a narcissist and dickhead.
Fair play, you’ve developed a narcissitic defense for your low self esteem and your frustration with the world and yourself makes you come across as a dickhead.
It is disingenous of you to assume my life realisations are somehow dependent on being a member of some random forum.
See, another fucken jolly to la la land. Where the fuck did you get this random idea from.
See what a mess and bag of contradictions it can be to be a human being.
You’re a fucken mess bro.
My trick question to see if I will engage with you was ‘what does space for my journey mean’ and I was actually going to give you the actual answer and then see if you would get the answer I already gave you. Can you see how ludicrous I believe conversing with you has been.
But alas, in the middle of my reply to you, like I said, I started to think you’re another Claudiu that I just need to ignore. I’m not going to get the slightest bit of value from you.
So if you do reply, I’ll be ignoring you from now on.
I’ve enjoyed today’s posts, mainly because it was high drama. And again, I’m so sure I’m in the right and enjoying rubbing it in.
Zero suffering and harm felt from my side.
On that note, when I wrote a couple of months ago, I was living with my parents for ten days on holiday and it was the worst ten days in years. I felt like I was in hell. And I thought hey, let me get some abuse and drama from people. And I thought who better to get it from than a forum of people who say they are happy and harmless, they’ll give me all the cheap drama I need. And you guys absolutely did. I wanted to be abused and where did I choose to come?
But exhausted, and I realise cut connections down with people who are exhausting, or at least keep conversations simple.
There’s a part of me that wants to leave, a part of me that keeps coming back maybe because I see some value in the method, another part of me that wants a forum of actually practising actualists who I can learn from versus keyboard jockeys.
But okay, one last reply to kub, or anyone who makes sense (i sincerely hope you dont, because I dont want to communicate on here because my ROI expectations (apart from drama and amusement (which I’ve had my dose of) are zero.
At times yes, but of course I can see how my actions can be dismissive to you too, you don’t owe me any answers but I thought we would have an interesting conversation about stuff, but for some reason I seem to really antagonise you and I find your answers unsatisfying and wishy washy I think, which is interesting, becasuse I have never really been in this situation before.
Oh well, genuinely I can’t relate to that at all and among most of the people in my life. Do you think that is luck or that you have done something that has enabled things to work out spectacularly well?
Important in what way? To you personally or universally?
It is pretty tricky, I have never really found myself feeling offended since I was like 13. It is like alien territory I know longer remember how to navigate. I am usually ultra polite and unconfrontational but I obviously felt comfortable enough to communicate whatever came to my mind with you.
Just don’t shoot me with an AK-47 for my bad English, is what we call council estate English where we write more informally, more so how we speak than grammatically correct, maybe you haven’t had the pleasure of UK council estate life yet lol. Maybe a second attempt lol. “I can feel fear arising in me. I am so frightened that you now won’t like me.” What I meant to convey is how I am genuinely experiencing this moment and interaction with you and contrast it with what I would normally experience in the safety of being mr quiet and nice, maybe a bit of verbal diarrhea on my side.
Of course I know where I can be perceived to have gone off piste. I openly challenged you without any regards to your feelings or self importance. In what polite English society would consider rude, but maybe I thought you could take it lol. But also because you too seem to have already discussed concepts of understanding self and emotion so I thought you would be less affected or impacted by what I say or do, like water off a ducks back.
You haven’t hurt me or offended me, but I would want you to see that those states don’t mean anything special, and its really hard to convey that I guess. Our values systems seem totally different I guess.
Of course you can dismiss it and not give a fuck, but at least there is no ambiguity and you know my position.
Well, I am talking hypothetically of course becasuse I am not you and I can’t know what I have or haven’t made you feel.
Ok, I am reading though as best as I can and if I am not getting you, thats my bad but I am trying to find some common ground. Yes I am closed minded to certain things, as all humans close their minds to certain things because not all humams believe and value exactly the same things, but I know what I have closed my mind to and why in most cases, of course there will be blind spots and unknowns.
I knew a part of you liked me lol.
I give a shit in the sense that I don’t want humans to suffer anymore than they have to, I am curious enough about people too but that doesn’t mean I value every aspect of their personal experience. It is hard not to be authentic to yourself and what has personal value and relevance.
I am being authentic to me, and if I don’t get you that’s authentic too. Sometimes people don’t get each other or see eye to eye.
Do you think you would write the same way if I had not said something you found to be rude, like I triggered you, but I am trying to understand you at least, no brownie points for that?
No, I am not talking about you explicitly but in life in general. I have a bad habit of going off on tangents sorry lol. I mean in life in general, you are forced into conflict with people even when not intending to be rude but when you share a fact. What matters more to you, the facts or not offending or upsetting people’s beliefs? What matters to you?
I am not shitting on your facts, that was me trying to elaborate on the tricky decisions and encounters we have in life, not communicated very clearly I see now. I know what I know man and in this universe I know that is not much at all in the grand scheme of things but I am honest about what I do and don’t know at least. I have had 7 PCE’s and not since 2006 and 2007. I am doing a lot better actually with HAIETMOBA and happy and harmlessness, have had more felicitous moments and EE’s. But not being in the thrall of mental illness is great, being normal again (which isnt great I know) but is so much better than being depressed and affected by anxiety. It is like having a second chance to live life.
Shit man miscommunication happens, I am not intentionally trying to be obtuse.
Yes, did I hurt you or not? The whole point I thought was I hadn’t hurt you and we both kind of know I haven’t really hurt you
You mean read, it is the written word not spoken (sorry I couldn’t resist that lame joke). I am not making shit up I am but pointing out where you haven’t answered or I don’t get you. As well as the reasons behind the choices I make and waffling at times I can see.
In the right about me not getting to the point. Yes, ok I think I can agree on that. Is there something else you mean being right about as well?
No, I know what its a shitshow because we don’t have sufficient intent consistently enough not to be in the thrall of being a self and the shitty behaviours that we are capable of.
Because I am not the spokesperson for AF, I am just me dealing with my shit for now. Maybe when I am in a better place I can be those things but I am not there yet. A reason I probably wanted it to be a private forum. I was polite to you at first message 33 on this journal, maybe something about being ignored has triggered me.
I don’t mean I absolutely believe your a cunt, I mean this was the coping strategy I developed living on a council estate as a nerdy guy living among tougher and more aggressive people. I can be a cunt for sure probably, but I can be a pretty sweet guy too sometimes.
I meant more on the Nietzschen philosophical sense there is no such thing as moral phenomena only interpretation of moral phenomena. Not in the sense of doing whatever I want to anybody without any regard foe their well being. For example, do you think it is ethical to eat meat? Plenty of people believe that you shouldn’t and its morally wrong to eat meat. There is not some absolute scale of universal right and wrong. I knew you were going to bring up the Hare psychopathy checklist lol.
I am trying to understand you though and I can live with you thinking that.
Ok, appreciate your honesty man though I thought a narcissist seeks more external gratification and validation, right?
I know man, I have always known and have always been honest about it. Plenty of people are and plenty try to pretend or hide it.
Again man, not trying to be intentionally a dick but appreciate your patience. If you ever change your mind I would like to know.
Ok, but what if i get some value from you? Would that change your mind.
People are exploring trying to be happy and harmless not that they are happy and harmless. I don’t say I am happy and harmless though but I am aiming for it and falling short. But that is my personal journey.
There are a lof of different people at different levels so i can get it can be unrewarding.
Oh bub… I genuinely thought there was enough of a seed of sincerity and sensibility in you, that though you were misguided, so was I at one point, and so there was some chance for you to come to your senses.
Now I see that chance is minimal if not nil, and you’re just here to troll this forum.
And I don’t use that term lightly… you come here seeking drama and abuse:
And you get off on it:
Here’s what you consider abusive, which triggered off a massive tirade last time, and that you literally equated with rape:
As another example, it makes your ”skin crawl” when someone straightforwardly sets the record straight as to what someone else said in the past, and suggests it’s worthwhile for people to ponder your words and the reactions those words elicit and all that entails.
Here’s what you don’t consider abusive, that you consider to be “Zero suffering and harm felt” from your side:
You see how one is not like the other?
Bub, in simple terms, if anyone is being abusive here, it’s you.
If it wasn’t clear to you before that you have no genuine interest in actualism and actual freedom - a core part of which is harmlessness - then the above should make it clear now.
(As an aside, being strident and firm and challenging someone’s deeply held beliefs and not letting them get away with what they say is not intrinsically harmful.)
Bub, this forum isn’t set up for people to come here and abuse and troll people. I genuinely wasn’t asking you to leave before, but I’m asking you now, from my own personal side and not as a site moderator. There’s just no benefit to be had here for anyone.
And in case it wasn’t clear, I won’t accept any request from someone to say whatever they want on a thread without any challenge, especially after they’ve come to the forum with the explicit intention to stir up drama. But you shouldn’t be upset by this as you appear to enjoy the emotions you feel and put on display here for all to see. Unless you weren’t being sincere about enjoying it. As you’ve established you don’t say what you mean and mean what you say, I’m running on the assumption that basically anything you say might not be what you genuinely think.
In any case, there’s no reason we can’t all live our lives and enjoy them. I wish you well despite your intentions and our differences (with no affectation whatsoever, merely a fellowship regard).
The one where you are the one that brought up the topic, saying I was “next in line”? And where I joked that I had been “next in line” for 9 years – which was a joke as in that time Geoffrey & Srinath became free and I didn’t? As in it’s meaningless to say who is “next in line”?
Misremembering/misinterpreting this exchange so thoroughly is what is galling here!
Another post about what harmlessness was after my last post and same old echo chamber shyt showing no insight. The meaning of the communication is the response you get. Show some empathy and insight. Dont go off again and again justifying repeatedly shitty behaviours.
Jeez having made that post I have to say I feel somewhat insulted. :*( I thought it a good decent post.
You’re on fire there bub.
For me “on fire” has connotations of being “on a roll”, as in a string or series of successes. I don’t see that here, but rather the opposite.
As he said he came here last time from a bad place looking for drama, it’s possible the same is happening now. In which case it’s not really about what we’re saying here. He should look for other outlets rather than piling verbal abuse onto random strangers on the internet here. Then when he is in a better place he could possibly engage in some fruitful discussion. This certainly isn’t that.
I hope he stays but I doubt he will. He’ll burn himself out soon enough. After going room to room pumping round after round into his despised co-workers, even the most enthused mass shooter grows tired of the carnage. The crying and wailing of his victims, once music to his ears, begin to grow stale after a while.
Reminds me of the Topica list back in the old days.
Got all sorts back then. Some really vicious ones too.
It made for plenty of rich and dynamic engagement that prompted some of the best out of Richard.
It might do the same for us.
But as I said, I predict pretty soon he’ll burn out like a kid on a candy bender, if he hasn’t already.
Your bashing of the state of the forum reminded me of some things that @Srinath has brought up recently too, around the time of the global warming discussion.
Hey, Kub, I was going to say it’s not my intention to bash the forum. But I can’t bullshit you.
But yeah, it’s like when I have an argument with a girlfriend, or even friend, I might say all sorts of shit (not in the nicest of tones) BUT I’ll be happy to repeat any and all of it even when calm. Because intentions are good. And I guess I’m sharing some of my own issues too with the method. And saying emperor’s new clothes, see the light, because I can sure as hell see it in ten years time. And it’s not rocket science, or me being a fortune teller, and definitely not being mean - next ten years will be like the last ten years, or ever since the method started.
The fact is that for a few years no-one has managed to become actually free
It’s also strange that the only two people actually free live on a boat, and one of them invented the method and passes judgement on who is AF or BF. And if he says the other one is not AF, there goes his. chance of ever getting laid again. Like they say, don’t cross the boss ;).
there are guys who have been into this for 10 or more years and they are still neither actually free nor able to apply the method each moment again. This includes me, I first came across actual freedom when I was 18, then I had some time off but for the last 4 or so years it has been a dedication of mine and still no cigar, both in terms of actual freedom and in terms of feeling good each moment again.
Yeah, poor son_of_bub is desperately trying to get to a PCE since almost 20 years. And that’s not too far off anyone else.
but the replicability of the method has been extremely low so far.
I would actually disagree, allow me to explain how and why.
The method works to an extent. And most here have gotten to a similar level. Some might say BF, but c’mon, what the fuck is BF. The same feelings are still there (but they’re now called social identity).
Maybe to use a martial arts analogy, it’s like a brown belt decides to teach martial arts as a black belt. But he knows he ain’t the real deal. And people are getting very easily to brown belt. But struggling after.
So he says, no, the higher belts you have to be in sync with your breathing, in harmony with the tao, you’re trying too hard, you want it too hard.
But in reality, he’s a great teacher to get people to brown belt, but that’s about it.
Sure you can say that maybe they didn’t sincerely want it etc but when so many people try and fail where do you point the finger?
Definitely not at the method, or the founder. It has to be the students not applying it correctly (I joke of course, but mention it to be clear).
Here’s where the finger is pointed.
People don’t understand the method.
They are complicating things.
They are oversimplifying things.
They are applying their own interpretation.
BUT it’s a simple method. With no real bells and whistles.
Other people have tried it failed and left. BUT they didn’t really understand the method.
BUT it’s a super simple method. PCE. HAI… Happy harmless. All else is window dressing.
But all else ISNT window dressing. You don’t understand nuances of soul, awareness, ego, doer, beer, all sorts of random stuff.
It can go on and on.
Or like your attempt at gentle finger pointing in your journal - maybe there are other practical ways that can be looked into to help beginners. (BUT what about experienced AF peeps who seem to need it more than beginners).
The reason for inconsistences, or double speak is because of the same reason the brown belt in the example I gave will resort to waffle about tao, and harmony etc. The method works but only as much as it has already worked for the last ten years. Not as much as Richard, or the brown belt insist it does.
Where you write that Srinath is looking at other methods (I don’t know the extent to which this is accurate)
No intention to lie, but definitely more than a little guilty I let that cat out of the bag and broke Srinath’s confidentiality. Because it’s a big no-no to follow other methods.
I am not shocked or upset by this, at the end of the day we are all here for a reason and it seems it is not working.
Not a single other person on the forum would dare to say what you just said.
The problem is that actual freedom is such a recent development that the numbers are very low, essentially we are following a method that was devised by a single person and which has since been successfully replicated by a very low number of people.
Even if the numbers are low, they’re still in the tens of thousands over decades.
Like I heard a guru say (the one guru who got me to where I wanted to be in double quick time) - you find a method whose followers are successful.
With such low numbers and such low replicability how can we have confidence that the current method is the most successful (in allowing others to become free)?
No you can’t, but doesn’t stop people who’ve been trying like all get out for years to little practical avail (Beyond AF brown belt equivalent) say it’s the best method.
Which leads to what you mention about it being cult-like. I am starting to see the danger of this in myself, of the actualist identity, of lacking originality.
This seems like a cookie cutter one size fits all methodology. And everybody MUST want to get rid of feelings, if they don’t let them have a PCE and then decide.
BUT if I gave someone a drug that would bliss them out their whole lives, they would be bored senseless.
There are some people who will spend $30k on a rolex, and others who will think that’s a criminal waste of money. Someone will buy a vomit green beat up jalopy.
That’s the richness of the human tapestry. People have the capacity to make wise but also importantly unwise decisions. But everybody is NOT the same.
But it seems that there has to be something much more original in the individual to go all the way.
Like your martial arts analogy, here it seems like it’s the student who’s somehow not getting it right.
I think as I’ve said, great method, works much better than a lot more, but works as much as it has been shown to.
I had this thought today that kind of summarises what I am trying to convey (very poorly ) :
Got everything except this sentence
But it seems that there has to be something much more original in the individual to go all the way.
I thought to myself that it would be the best possible outcome if being an actualist, the actual freedom trust and the rest of it some day soon fades into some obscure corner of history, of ‘what once was’. Why? Because the human condition has been eradicated, people live in actual peace and harmony and now what is the actual freedom method? Merely something that had to be devised to end sorrow and malice.
Richard comes across as crotchety, impatient, petty, pedantic (could go on). If he read my posts, I’d be off the forum faster than you can say happy and harmless.
And he’s going to get the world to eradicate the human condition?! Really?!
C’mon, this guy can’t even get his followers to succeed at his method and he’s going to be responsible for peace and harmony in the whole world. And carrying this all out from a boat in the arse end of nowhere.
I wanted abuse a couple of months ago, I ran here because I knew I would get it. And this forum is going to be the bastion of the new free world?!
The goal was never to be an actualist.
Hah, just teasing and making sure I got this right - your goal was world peace and harmony and you thought AF was going to get you and everybody else there?
But yeah, neither was my goal to be an actualist, or even get to AF, but to explore another method with ‘some’ super valid points.
) :
) and just tell everyone to Just Fucking Do It.
I’ve used this as an excuse way too many times…
Ds.