I can assure you, I am not you 
Or to put it another way – if I were you , then why are you talking to yourself?
Cheers,
Claudiu
There is no you, there is no me.
It’s one big whole playing out the dance of life
This is evidently contradictory — if there is no “you” then nothing can be “you” and it can’t be that “everything is you”.
Therefore one or the other or both of these must be false:
- “everything is me”
- “there is no me”
However it appears you’ve given up on facts entirely as you indicate in your post:
As another evident contradiction you say you have ”dumped the BF/AF [basic freedom/actual freedom] search” yet part of the reason that you are here on this forum is ”exploring AF in a deeper way”. As in this context exploring is but a synonym for searching it has got me beat how you plan to … explore without exploring!
However after having given up on facts it is of course easy to live with such contradictions. But as the way out is via finding out what the facts are, then it leaves you in a bit of a pickle.
In any case as facts are vitally essential for any exploration into actuality and actual freedom as well as success with actualism, it seems indeed actualism is contraindicated in your case — having abandoned facts there’s really nowhere to go, no way to make progress, or to rectify any of the various misunderstandings you still have about actualism and actual freedom — some of which have already been discussed on this very thread!
If you really are intent on ”exploring AF in a deeper way” then I give you the same advice Richard gave to me in a similar situation: “Turn around 180 degrees from the direction you have been travelling thus far and come to your senses (both metaphorically and literally).” (source)
If that isn’t something you want to do then … I wish you the best in finding what you are looking for, but at this stage, actual freedom isn’t it.
Cheers,
Claudiu
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There’s no inconsistency at all from where I’m sitting.
You might think I’m an idiot who chooses whatever belief I can mock up to suit my fancy.
On the flip side, it’s a humility that I don’t know anything. The questions and answers I’m finding have eluded spiritual traditions, religions and philosophers for thousands of years, and will never have any clear answers probably ever.
There’s also the deep understanding that pretty much everything is a lie.
What I do do, is look for the best truths I can find with all the evidence I can get, looking as deeply as I practically can.
The ‘facts’ that I’ve come up with are consistent with the latest neuroscience, and the oldest spiritual traditions. That there is no free will, there is no self, this is all an illusion.
Similarly, they also say there is no self, and everything is one.
You might quote Richard, but this is a niche philosophy that flies in the face of current neuroscience, and the oldest spiritual traditions. I can respect your views and wouldn’t dream of disdaining or dismissing them. I would ask that you do the same for me, if it was important to me, but it isn’t. I’m more than happy for you to completely disagree (with the latest neuroscientific discoveries and the oldest spiritual traditions ;)).
Actual Freedom indeed isn’t for me, nor is Basic Freedom. What is for me is the enduring principles such as happy and harmless, appreciating and enjoying this moment of being alive, and Srinath’s insight about caring as a key part of the process.
Similarly, enlightenment isn’t for me, and what is for me is a philosophy that’s consistent with that process that also gives me a feeling of non resistance, and even solace and peace.
Enlightenment is a long search based on contraction, so is AF/BF which to me is based in resistance to what is and wanting change from feelings, to a constant PCE. It is indeed a worthy goal for many, but not my shtick. Might change if I see more people jumping over to BF/AF like Geoffrey’s success was an inspiration for Srinath.
For me, I’ll leave the enlightenment search to others, whilst I continue in my non resisting, accepting, peaceful, even blissful way as much as I can, and accept the downs with as much equanimity as I can.
And I’ll leave the BF/AF search to others, whilst I continue to live it’s core principles of happy and harmless, appreciating and enjoying this moment of being alive and genuine caring as best as I can. Which might be a lot more than other people on the forum might be doing. But it’s not a competition. I just want to do justice to it in my own way.
PCE’s might be a journey, but again, from a place of exploration. I saw Srinath overjoyed at hitting a jhana early in his practice, and I wondered what the fuss was about? I’ve had multiple close to PCE experiences, maybe a significant proportion on drugs. But I’ve don’t feel the need to feel that way again.
Ups and downs. I’m more than happy to live with them.
Most people on the search for enlightenment and AF/BF absolutely hate feelings and the feeling being. I’m more than happy to live with the feeling being for the rest of my life.
So yes, Actual Freedom or enlightenment definitely isn’t for me. But practically using their principles to become a better human to myself and more than that, others, definitely IS.
I find I’m under a lot of stress now and have been complaining a LOT.
I’ve started work in a new job in London and it’s a trainwreck with a lot of things wrong with it.
I’m unhappy going into work, and this is a rare for me.
I’m also not liking the oppressiveness of London, which is why anytime I’ve lived here, I’ve always lived near parks or rivers.
I’m enjoying interacting with patients, and colleagues and feeling appreciated by both.
There’s also moving home, relocating to a different city, going back to my old place every weekend to move stuff out, finding a new place, finding storage for my stuff, having to eliminate a lot of the old stuff, house search, viewings, and now paperwork, left my ID, information access, and driving license in India and its been lost in transit being posted back, so have to get all that again, and a fair few projects I’m chasing like a new business, editing second draft of my book, setting up a brand strategy, creating products, and all this whilst living out of suitcases in airbnbs.
I’ve turned into this whingey soul, and as I write that, I realise I’ve always been a whingey sort, complaining about everything. I might laugh in my complaining, so it doesn’t sound like that, but that indignation is an almost constant feeling.
Just fricking unhappy with the world and people around me.
I’m lucky that my normal baseline is a relative euphoria or ebullience, but this recently increased indignation and unhappiness with the world as it is, and people as they are is counterproductive and only harms myself.
I was looking at my past youtube comments, and almost all of them are indignant comments.
I looked up indignation - stresses righteous anger at what one considers unfair, mean, or shameful.
This self righteous anger at unfairness, incompetence and hypocrisy is probably a projection of my own unfairness, incompetence and hypocrisy.
And maybe I have to accept my own foibles as a first step towards accepting that in others.
It’s a bitter pill to swallow - my own incompetence, hypocrisy and unfairness and inconsistency in the way I treat and view others and myself.
Maybe compassion for my own self and others is a way out of this mess, as opposed to trying to throw out the baby with the bathwater and wholescale change my personality.
It’s okay to have flaws, and accept the shadow parts of me.
But maybe less complaining and more appreciation.
I’m in my favourite part of London, and moving into new digs with river views with a super cool flatmate, with steam, sauna, jacuzzi, gym, pool, clubhouse with bar, and super convenient transport links.
Signed up with a stylist, and getting a high end photoshoot organised for some dating profiles.
Completed the first draft of my book, and more at peace with myself and others than I’ve ever been.
Just appreciate the job that people are doing, the place I’m in that’s trying to do it’s best, and lucky to be in the job I am in.
So maybe less complaining.
I’ve always seen complaining and being unhappy with things as a positive, because it then means I’m driven to change things. But that’s getting into the resistance/change/contraction morass again.
How can I enjoy being alive. It’s not being pulled into the future, or the past, and just enjoying this moment.
That’s the most important job ahead of me, just enjoy now because that’s all there practically is.
And focus on the dozens of beautiful interactions that I have everyday, and the beautiful gifts I have been given.
Hi @bub,
Firstly I never responded to this:
I’m glad my answers were so helpful and appreciate the feedback!
With that in mind, I continue to answer here.
I know you don’t experience it as inconsistency. I know it because I went through a spiritual phase myself in which facts were not valued such that I too was able to believe simultaneously contradictory things with the scantest of reasons to do so.
Needless to say, I had to work my way out of it before I could have success with actualism.
Not at all. It requires a lot of cleverness and cunning - and as such, intelligence - to be able to pull off believing simultaneously contradictory things.
The issue more has to do with a lack of appreciation for facts and a lack of intent to stick to the facts, rather than a lack of intelligence.
In a similar vein, you might think I’m a simpleton who can’t understand or doesn’t appreciate the complexity or nuance of your position such as to comprehend that it isn’t in fact inconsistent/contradictory. However I do fully understand and appreciate[1] your position, and even though it doesn’t appear inconsistent to you – it is. Evaluating it in a simple and fact-based manner easily reveals it to be so. It’s only by adding layers of apparently-sophisticated complication that the simple (and correct) conclusion can be evaded.
Well you yourself said you do this so I only take you at your word for it: ”I just adopt [i.e. “choose”] a mindset or set of ultimately false beliefs [i.e. “whatever belief I can mock up”] that get me to a sense of non resistance and peace. [i.e. “to suit my fancy”].”
If you don’t in fact do this, then, don’t say that you do .
As a core part of actualism is dismantling beliefs then you are not gonna have much luck with it going as you are.
You even recognize this yourself — you said you “absolutely love the insights that keep coming [from “exploring AF in a deeper way”]” - such as “belief dismantling”. How do you expect you’re gonna be able to dismantle beliefs while you are simultaneously explicitly and willingly choosing to adopt new beliefs — not to mention ones that you yourself think are false!
Ha, we both know this is a false humility.
Firstly, if you were sincere that you don’t know anything then I can just reply to everything you say with “But you don’t really know that” 
and there would be no conversation we could have.
Secondly, you don’t really think you don’t know anything, else you wouldn’t so confidently write what you write and claim your position (that you supposedly “don’t know anything” about) is “consistent with the latest neuroscience, and the oldest spiritual traditions”.
Not only that but you also already claim you may be more successful with actualism than possibly everyone else on the forum! “[…] whilst I continue to live it’s core principles of happy and harmless, appreciating and enjoying this moment of being alive and genuine caring as best as I can. Which might be a lot more than other people on the forum might be doing.”
So in short, you can drop the pretense!
And yet the answer has been found, and it is as clear as day – and it is none other than what you experience in a PCE. But more about the PCE later.
Oh? Yet here I sit, typing on my keyboard, looking at my monitor. It is a fact that I am sitting here. It is a fact that this keyboard is in front of me. It is a fact that the keys are making the clackety-clack sounds they do as my fingers press upon them. It is a fact that the words are appearing on the screen in front of me, as if by magic. It is a fact that you are reading these words now (when you do see them).
There are many facts to be found, plainly visible for all to see. But if you are not interested in them of course you will never find them!
What if instead you looked for the actual facts that are actually the case, with all the sensibility you can muster, looking as sincerely as you possibly can?
Then you might have a shot at success!
As you scare-quoted the word ‘facts’ you are implying that you don’t really know that these things are facts – besides which stating above explicitly that you don’t really know anything – so there’s no need for me to reply. I’m only interested in what the actual facts are.
Before you reemphasize this again and repeat that you aren’t interested in “BF/AF” or “Basic Freedom” or “Actual Freedom”, I will cut this off here and now.
You clearly are, based on what you write here, as in you being “back on the AF website” for the purpose of “exploring AF in a deeper way”; as in you “lov[ing] the insights that keep coming” such as “happy and harmless” and “how am I appreciating and enjoying this moment of being alive” and “PCE’s” and “belief dismantling” and more (“etc etc”), all of which are “the places [you] would like to go”; as in wanting to “Just [be] a happy, harmless […] human being”; as in what “is for [you]” are “the enduring principles happy and harmless” and “appreciating and enjoying this moment of being alive” and “caring as a key part of the process”; as in it not being able to get “any simpler” than “really really lik[ing] enjoying and appreciating the present moment and feeling good” for you[2].
So your protestations to the contrary will not work on me .
Either you don’t realize you are interested in it all, in which case you will have to work on being sincere about such things, or you somehow believe that all of what I quoted here is not what actualism is about or that it doesn’t all stem from an actual freedom from the human condition or that the point of it all isn’t to become actually free from the human condition – in which case you are simply mistaken, and repeatedly stating it over and over again and trying to separate it out from actualism won’t make it true.
To expand on it further, you cannot separate out “appreciating and enjoying this moment of being alive” from actualism and actual freedom, as “appreciating and enjoying this moment of being alive” is what the actualism method is, and “appreciating and enjoying this moment of being alive” is the goal as well. And attempting to separate them out is really nothing more than attempting to confuse and mislead yourself as well as others as to what it is that actualism and actual freedom really are – to take the words on the AFT site, with precise meaning given to terminology, and to distort them, tack them on to something else, make them out to mean something other than what they do, then present it back to yourself and other people as if it’s what actualism is ‘really’ about, the ‘good’ part separate from the rest, and thus lead the unsuspecting astray, away from a shot at the real deal.
And I say this from experience because it’s exactly what happened to me when I first came into contact with actualism – it had been taken and distorted and blurred beyond all recognition, and presented to me as a variant of Buddhism, and I bought it, and was following the “affers” such as Trent and Tarin down the wrong path, having been misled by them – until I was finally able to come to my senses.
Don’t do the same as they did. It is a disservice to others who will read your posts, and ultimately a disservice to yourself.
This is spiritually-rooted nonsense. A probably-millenia-old trope, recycled here yet again, of wanting to change somehow being a bad thing and something to be avoided to be able to succeed.
All it takes to dispel it is to recognize, sincerely, in yourself, that of course you want to change something – otherwise you wouldn’t be doing what you are doing, exploring what you are exploring, writing what you write, etc. Even aiming to get to a place of non-resistance – is in itself wanting to change something, i.e. from not being in a place of non-resistance, to being in a place of non-resistance.
It’s even in the Pali Canon itself that wanting to change is a useful thing, not something to be spurned!
So again, we can dispense with the pretense .
As you write you’ve had “multiple close to PCE experiences” , you are saying in effect that you haven’t had any actual PCEs.
And, not having had any PCEs, how can you know that you had something “close to” a PCE?
And I say this because the PCE is so completely unlike anything else I have experienced, that there’s no possible way that I would have known what a PCE was like before having had one. (This makes sense once you realize that a PCE is experiential and can only be known experientially.) All of the words I read before having had one, were not sufficient to describe it, because I simply didn’t know what they were referring to. They made sense as descriptions after the fact – but they don’t do it justice without one’s own experience to refer them to.
As such there is no way I was able to know what something “close to” a PCE is up until I actually had one. And this isn’t peculiar to me, but is the very nature of PCEs – by which I mean that there’s no way that you can know, either.
As you earlier said you “don’t know anything”, as in anything at all, then it shouldn’t be hard to accept this subset of not knowing just this particular thing .
Ehm… ok, but as you said PCE’s “might be a journey” as done “from a place of exploration”, that means you are clearly interested in experiencing something towards this direction of experiences again.
If you do indeed drop all the pretense and admit it to yourself that you’re interested in all this — then I would suggest not hanging your hat on anything that seems like it might potentially be close to a description you may remember that you might have read or heard somewhere of what a PCE could potentially be like. Have a high standard for a PCE. Have a solid, clear one, unambiguous what it is. Then you will really be able to see what actualism is all about.
Further, as you didn’t experience it in the first place, you don’t yet have the knowledge to know whether you want to experience it again . Don’t knock it 'till you try it.
As a hint: if the experience isn’t of something so totally novel and refreshing, so amazingly simple and pure, such as to render all ‘your’ past efforts apparently fruitless and redundant by comparison, together with an astounding recognition that the actual world exists, has existed all along, and will continue to exist forever, along with time and space itself clearly and palpably existing and being vastly still (as in unmoving, no past or future only an aeonian now), plus an undeniable purity laying all about, simply there available to be perenially enjoyed and appreciated, together with (if other people be present) a seeing the others as simply other fellow human beings without the usual separation between ‘you’ and ‘them’ – or at least some subset of these descriptors and others – then it is very unlikely to be a genuine PCE.
Ehm… if you are “more than happy to live with them” then why on earth are you interested in “practically using [Actual Freedom’s] principles” such as “happy and harmless” and “appreciating and enjoying this moment of being alive and genuine caring as best as I can” to “become a better human to myself and more than that, others”???
You realize that to be living in “ups and downs” is to be neither happy nor harmless? That to be swinging in life’s vicissitudes of “ups and downs” is to be neither appreciating nor enjoying this moment of being alive? Further that to be flowing with the “ups and downs” of life is to not be able to be genuinely caring to others? And that riding the “ups and downs” of life, just like the other billions of people on the planet already are, is to not be becoming a better human to yourself, and, more than that, to others?
Again you are being self-contradictory here:
-
If you are interested in being happy and harmless, then you are interested in reducing and smoothing over life’s ups and downs and replacing them with stability – namely, a stable happiness and harmlessness. Your protestations to the contrary don’t change this fact. Nor is it a ‘sin’ to want to change (and it wasn’t even a ‘sin’ in the original Buddhism before it was corrupted by later generations, as evidenced by the Pali Canon sutta!).
-
Contrapositively, if you are not interested in changing anything and you are happy to live with the “ups and downs” just like everybody already does by default — then you are not interested in practically employing the principles you wrote interest you, such as to be come happy and harmless and enjoy and appreciate this moment of being alive.
There is simply no factual, sensible, rational, nor even logical way that it could be otherwise!
Simply put, you cannot both be content with the ups and downs and practically apply these principles to become more happy and harmless. All you can do is fool yourself into believing that you are somehow doing both – which it seems you’re doing a good job of so far .
Further, not even two hours later you wrote that you are “under a lot of stress now and have been complaining a LOT” and that you “started work in a new job in London and it’s a trainwreck with a lot of things wrong with it” and that you’re “unhappy going into work”. And by the end of the post you wrote “How can I enjoy being alive” and “That’s the most important job ahead of me, just enjoy now because that’s all there practically is.”.
So despite what you wrote that you are “happy to live with” the “ups and downs” — it seems that rather than being happy to be “unhappy going into work”, and happy to be “under a lot of stress now”, and happy to be “in a new job” that’s a “trainwreck” — you are not happy with this, not satisfied, not content with this, you do want to actually change it, to the point where you recognize it as “the most important job ahead of me”!
And I commend that you recognize it as the “most important job” – because indeed, what else is there to do, what other point to life, ultimately, than to be enjoying and appreciating this, the only moment, of being alive!
So what will it be? Will you continue to assert that you are happy with the ups and downs or are you gonna come to your senses and stop fooling yourself?
Erhm… speak for yourself. Upon what do you base this confident judgement?
Plus we already went through this misconception over several posts here: Bub introduction - #2 by claudiu.
Then you best stop here and cease looking into anything related to actualism or actual freedom – try and divorce it as you may from what it’s actually about – because to be successfully utilizing the actual principles that you yourself say you are interested in, is to be going down the path towards the ending of said feeling being!
So if you do want to keep being you precisely as you are now and you really don’t want to change anything – stop now, don’t proceed with actualism! Just continue down the enlightenment-path while also somehow not going down the enlightenment-path (i.e. doing the things that get one to enlightenment but simultaneously not wanting to change and not doing anything to go towards enlightenment). You will be in good company with the other millions+ of similarly-inclined spiritualists out there.
Cheers,
Claudiu
-
appreciate: “understand (a situation) fully; grasp the full implications of.” ↩︎
There is a lot of misconception here…I guess this kinda thing can happen when you’ve not perused the content of AFT 
BF isn’t about releasing the ego-self…releasing ego-self is traditionally Enlightenment territory…BF is about the extinction of the feeling-being self…aka the rudimentary animal self one is born with…Colloquially speaking, we can call it the soul-self as well
I’m not sure where you found Actualism putting the soul and awareness together…
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I’ve been away and wasn’t sure how to respond to Claudiu’s post, but maybe all I can say is it didn’t feel happy and harmless.
I’ve been working on the method i.e. appreciating and enjoying TMOBA, and it’s been a refreshingly freeing experience.
I thought I’m feeling great, and only source of stress in close relationships was repeating patterns and I looked to resolve them but that went down like a stone and I realised it goes back to Claudiu’s words of accepting the world as it is and people as they are.
And I realised about letting go of control and allowings things to flow and just enjoying This.
There was a particularly rude response to what I felt was an inoffensive first post, and now with Claudiu’s most recent post to me and I guess again, it’s not about seeking control or expectations and that the world and people around me will act as they will.
I thought come here, dont slate the method, be as humble and learn as much as possible, but nada.
It reminds me of me trying to apologise to my sister about something I said about her in front of her friends (years ago) i.e. that she’s a workaholic (something she would agree she is) but her point was not the word workaholic but that I shouldn’t have brought it up with her friends. i apologised for bringing it up with her friends, but she raised her voice and I said if you speak like that to me, I will reverse Uno you and she left hurling abuses. And looking back this appears ludicrous to me, responding with verbal abuse (she threw in a few attacks as she left) to a genuine heartfelt apology for the only thing she had said I had done to upset her in the last 10 years.
And I realised I was being the idiot for wanting to control circumstances or events. People will be however they are. Nothing would have happened if I hadn’t tried to bring it up with her.
And I find the answer is an analogy of the rigid conductor pressurising his musicians to play in the exact way he wants them to, and then realising that it’s about letting go of control and letting the music flow.
And even here, Claudiu said AF is not for you, you have to do it this way or not at all, etc etc. Very culty.
People have their own journeys and that should be respected. But if it’s not respected, that’s a-ok too, it’s the other person’s journey.
Another lesson was chatting with Srinath and saying I was being happy but didn’t have a problem with being harmful to people who I felt were trying to attack me. But even if I enjoyed being harmful, there was still a lingering sense of remorse and regret and even condemnation and resentment. And Srinath said yep, the harmless part is important or it affects the happiness part.
So letting go of control and getting a finer handle on the harmless bit appear to be themes coming up.
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Welcome back!
this is what it is all about.
All the rest is just tools to facilitate precisely this ^.
As to our convo, the purpose in what I was writing was to assist you in precisely this, by encouraging you to be sincere in what you want and pointing out ways you may be impeding yourself from applying the method fully.
Maybe the best approach is to (continue to?) set it aside for now – I particularly suggest setting aside any conclusions you may have made about what was written – and when you have had more success with the method, re-read it again with this in mind and you may find it to be of more assistance.
Cheers,
Claudiu
P.S. I’ll leave with a parting thought:
This seems sensible on the face of it, but upon further consideration is not really so.
Consider an analogy, there’s a forum of car enthusiasts, sharing knowledge and insights on how to keep a car well-maintained, repair it, trivia about cars and anything related to cars, etc.
Now someone comes on the forum and says their car is malfunctioning, that they are very interested in repairing their car, but they are taking it to a florist to get it fixed, and learning from the florist how to maintain and repair their car, etc.
The forum-members reply, that’s not the way to repair your car, you should take it to a car repair person. The florist won’t be able to fix the car or show you how to do it.
Now if they replied:
And even here, you said car repair is not for you, you have to do it this way or not at all, etc etc. Very culty.
People have their own journeys and that should be respected. But if it’s not respected, that’s a-ok too, it’s the other person’s journey.
Would it make sense?
In other words what is the purpose of respecting someone’s journey to fix their car by going to the florist, when it won’t work?
Welcome back!
Thanks. I’ve learnt a lot here, and I have an ever growing respect for the refreshing practicality of AF.
I’m just sticking to practising this, and seeing what comes up.
As to our convo, the purpose in what I was writing was to assist you in precisely this, by encouraging you to be sincere in what you want and pointing out ways you may be impeding yourself from applying the method fully.
Your conversations with me were supremely useful, and really stopped me in my tracks.
I’m just left another repeating cycle and just fell into it - happy and harmless. What’s stopping me from feeling happy and harmless? Find repeating themes and control them. Find out there is no way to control circumstances or people.
Like you said I can’t change one perfect arrangement for another equally perfect arrangement.
And I have to accept the world as it is and people as they are.
But I fall into playing the Bub game and get hurt i.e. resistance (mainly to holding onto blame and condemnation, dont mind any of the other emotions) and it’s about not getting too close to the Bub fire to get burnt and just do enough i.e. responsibilites, but not play the identity game where it becomes harmful. And where does one decide that balance.
OR the answer (my florist in your analogy) of allowing however I show up in the world and how the world shows up for me.
Maybe the best approach is to (continue to?) set it aside for now – I particularly suggest setting aside any conclusions you may have made about what was written – and when you have had more success with the method, re-read it again with this in mind and you may find it to be of more assistance.
That’s the plan - I’ve always religously documented patterns specifically related to my AF journey on my journal here (though I have to be honest and say my knowledge is only based on limited reading, but I have been enjoying reading forum posts as they come to my email).
I will come back here and there will be nuggets galore I’m sure.
P.S. I’ll leave with a parting thought:
You were doing so well until here.
Absolutely bang on perfect.
Then it turns more than a tad ugly. I might be exagerrating.
I have some idea of what might come up, but also have a feeling it will might be surprising to even me, but let’s not waste any more time and let’s get down to it.
This seems sensible on the face of it, but upon further consideration is not really so.
Ahh, you charmer, you!
but they are taking it to a florist to get it fixed, and learning from the florist how to maintain and repair their car, etc.
The forum-members reply, that’s not the way to repair your car, you should take it to a car repair person. The florist won’t be able to fix the car or show you how to do it.
Definitely not my way or the highway culty at all.
There is one true God, and he is your’s of course.
Now if they replied:
In other words what is the purpose of respecting someone’s journey to fix their car by going to the florist, when it won’t work?
I see your grin, and am meeting it with a bigger grin as I write this.
Basic social skills 101, sunshine. People’s autonomy must be respected. Advance directives even trump mandatory legislations like mental health detentions.
The very purpose of respecting someone’s journey is just that. Respect. Autonomy and independence for their journey. A respect for a capacitous decision made in clear consciousness.
Even if it is unwise, like taking your car to a florist, one just can’t interfere with capacitous decisions.
–
Reflection:
I find this exchange absolutely fascinating and exhilarating and it mirrors the patterns I’ve been going through.
It feels to me like the universe has the poetic, magical way of communicating with the body-mind or feeling being.
My specific triggers with repeating cycles with family was:
- Zabardasthi (hindi and urdu for forcefully, also slang for rape i.e. forceful insertion). Or less crassly, interfering with autonomy and independence saying you should or should not do xyz with yourself, your time or money. And giving me no choice about it.
This feels like it is exactly what happened.
I set boundaries i.e. please respect my journey, and be harmless, and there’s a nope, you must only do it this way. Our mechanics are the only people in the world who can fix your car.
And the response is a charming, why should I respect choices or journey as I can’t see the logic in your decision.
Its my way of the highway, cause my method and my car mechanics are the only game in town.
Interfering with autonomy and independence and giving me no choice about it (taking it a step further by not even respecting repeated feedback about it).
- Worrying about me without nurturing or mothering.
The worries and negativity will always be there about something or other, but zero response to positive outcomes or options which just don’t register i.e. not being happy or encouraging or even interested.
I wasn’t looking for the positive mothering outcome, but at least dont give me all the negativity.
And here, whilst to be honest, it is a bit of a stretch, there’s a fair bit of negativity about the method chosen to move ahead. Like taken a car for a repair to a florist, if I recall correctly.
- Dismisssal without listening.
Oh, you want to do that to fix your car, hah! what a numbnuts, that’s a florist.
Oh, you want me to respect your journey, what’s the point in that?
Its like saying, I have no idea what the specifics are, but whatever they are your choice of method suck, your choice to choose it sucks, and your choice to even have your choice is a no go. But here’s what you Should or Must do instead.
- Unecessary aggression.
Which I’ve decided to meet with an unfortunate defense mechanism like Reverse Uno.
I get the verbal abuse or attack, I dish it back with equal intensity.
This is a conditioned fear response versus a love response, and designed to protect me but instead of helping the situation, probably worsens it.
But hey, nemo me impune laccessit - let him who would offend me with impunity beware.
Just play nice. It’s that simple.
If you dont, reverse uno.
So here’s the reverse uno.
You were doing so so well until you had to mess it up with that PS.
Claudiu,
It’s been a blast, but I’ll not have you commenting anymore on my journal.
Even if you do decide to respect my journey, there’s too much water under the bridge.
Thank you for all your help.
Sure, you can ignore my capacitous request again and forcefully insert yourself (zabardasthi) on my page.
I have to be honest, this response has been exhilarating.
I told myself if I wait till tomorrow, I’ll chill out, but this is a glorious opportunity to play through the pattern, and like I said to Srinath, if I show up as annoyance, or anger, or even hatred, so be it. That’s how the perfect arrangement of the world is showing up in this moment, I just have to appreciate and enjoy it, which i sure as hell am, even if I.am smack bang in the middle of an unhealthy pattern playing itself out. Again.
Sure, I might be overcome with regret and remorse later, as often happens, but will document here.
My objectives for recording here.
My progress with the method i.e. appreciating and enjoying this moment of being alive (which like I said has been going well apart from repeated cycles and patterns related to harmlessness
Document what comes up
Keep on with not criticising the method, maintain a healthy respect and beginners mind (and nothing to criticise other than what has already been (kindly by Claudiu) already explained to me with my first posts.
Don’t criticise other’s on here (not done that, except with one Reverse Uno (and now two bans from commenting on my journal) for unnecessary aggression).
Come back and review patterns.
Also it’s a forum I feel doesn’t get drawn into a lot of the other navel gazing of other methods and this one appears supremely practical (and the added bonus of Srinath’s feedback and insights - triggering though they be, but he’s the only one of my close friends that can remotely manage to trigger me, consciously or not).
How absolutely magical is the universe to make you write a decent reply, and then that PS drops in and the proverbial hits the fan, and you proceed to trigger ALL my repeating cycles/pet peeves with just a couple of sentences, ahh, and I play my part too in the cycle.
Magical. Absolutely magical.
I’m waiting to see what comes up, remorse, regret (apology unlikely as whenever recall times I was annoyed, I get annoyed again, so the first response appears appropriate. Kill the feeling being eh?).
But yes, everyday I grow more in awe of the absolutely perfect arrangement unfolding perfectly further than my wildest dreams.
And that ends this section of the Control-Autonomy-Independence Frustration-Blame-Condemnation triads.
The lesson continues to be you can’t control people and circumstances and they will continue to behave how they always have.
I’m finding this kind of absurd so I’m just going to chime in 
I read Claudiu’s response and since I don’t have any emotional charge, I found it straightforward and without any malice. He’s basically just saying we here only know one tried and tested way to get to AF, and that’s all we can really help out with. Maybe there’s another way, and you can pioneer it. Nonetheless, your “boundary” is just a way to get Claudiu (or others here, I don’t know) to validate your approach. It’s a form of control in disguise. And since he did not, you flew off into a tirade.
I’m sorry, unable to converse unless
My request for the space for my own journey is respected.
Thank you for understanding.
Same goes for anyone else intending to reply here.
Bub… possibly this is due to a misunderstanding of terms, by not respecting the path I didn’t mean not allowing you to do whatever you will (I have no power over this), but rather not holding your choices in esteem.
Or in other words, being discerning and critical and drawing a conclusion based on my experiences.
If you have qualms with this … you can’t force people to respect you or your choices, that’s not how it works. You do what you do and people think what they think.
I basically don’t operate via respect or disrespect anymore anyway, just critically evaluating and seeing what is sensible or not. This often puts one on the negative side of a social interaction… such is how it is.
Responding to a post is not interfering with a decision, it’s having a conversation. Nothing I wrote or write is forcing you to do anything. And relating that to rape is a bit absurd.
This is a public forum, if you don’t want comments or feedback on what you write then you may be looking for more of a private journal type situation.
And to preempt a possible objection, that is a suggestion, not a demand or a forcing you to leave or even a request to do so
In any case I wasn’t and am not planning on harassing you with replies, this wouldn’t be productive. I would wait until or unless I possibly see something of benefit that I could say and say it only then. It is clear going over the same that we already went over wouldn’t be productive at this point which is why I didn’t.
I would just suggest that you keep your own stated goal in mind - enjoying and appreciating this moment of being alive - and reflect back on your convo with Srinath about how the harmless part of it feeds into the happiness part (and vice versa).
Cheers with no ill will
Claudiu
I’m sorry, unable to converse unless
My request for the space for my own journey is respected.
Thank you for understanding.
Same goes for anyone else intending to reply here.
Dang, it’s getting passive aggressive in here. 
@bub, I bet you can get passionate at times and I can relate to that; I have been known to get passionate myself. My sense is that your idea about what this space is for is different then what it actually is.
You seem to be coming at this journal as a sort of free-flow of thought, where you don’t censor yourself and allow yourself to really say what you’re feeling. Cool! But if you didn’t want input why post here?
Did @claudiu’s post sting? All he attempted to do is point out discrepancies between what you’re aiming for and what you say. The actualism method isn’t for people who are “more than happy to live with the feeling being.” Can you blame him for his P.S.? People here want to immolate, and are using the method explicitly for that purpose. They’re not using the method to be more than happy to live with the feeling being."
Also, do you see how your dissociating yourself from your feelings in that sentence? There’s an “I’m” that’s more than happy to live with a “feeling being” (me) for the rest of “my” life. You are the feeling being, not something separate that has to live with it. What you’re really saying is, “I don’t mind living with myself for the rest of my life” or even better, “I don’t mind living as a feeling being for the rest of my life.” Well, isn’t that convenient? Of course you don’t.
Have you considered you’re programed to want to live as a feeling being for the rest of your life?
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I’m sorry, unable to converse unless
My request for the space for my own journey is respected.
Thank you for understanding.
Same goes for anyone else intending to reply here.
PETER: As an actualist, I always put the aim to be harmless towards my fellow human beings first and my aim for happiness second, because it is impossible for me be happy unless I am harmless. For anyone who is sincere about peace on earth it is essential to put becoming harmless first … and then increased happiness invariably follows. In the case in point, if one stops being sarcastic, as in expressing bitter or wounding remarks to others, then one has more chance of being happy … which in turn means that one has less reason to feel cynical …which in turn means one is less prone to be sarcastic and so on … until both cynicism and sarcasm eventually disappear as if by magic. It’s a fascinating business to see, and experientially understand, how feelings are interlinked, how they produce an endless cycle of ups and downs, how there is a continuous tendency to wound and then feel wounded, how there is a seesaw sequence of excitement and boredom … and so on.
While in stark contrast, the actualism method is about enjoying and appreciating being alive in the world as-it-is with people as-they-are, i.e. without changing anything about the world… in other words, a (relatively) unconditional enjoyment.
How on earth can I live happily and harmlessly in the world as-it-is with people as-they-are whilst I nurse malice and sorrow in my bosom?
In essence ‘you’ are running the show, ‘you’ are letting ‘your’ feelings be the arbiter of what is ‘right’ and ‘wrong’, how things should be and what is ‘good’ and what is ‘problematic’,
My interest has always laid in the reasons for the persistent inability of human beings to live together in peace and harmony and it would seem in hindsight that this abiding interest meant that I could not ignore the intrinsic challenge that is at the core of actualism – can I prove by living example that it is possible, in the world as-it-is with people as-they-are, to live with my fellow human beings in utter peace and harmony?
RICHARD (to Respondent No. 33): Malice and sorrow are intrinsically connected and constitute what is known as ‘The Human Condition’. The term ‘Human Condition’ is a well-established philosophical term that refers to the situation that all human beings find themselves in when they emerge here as babies. The term refers to the contrary and perverse nature of all peoples of all races and all cultures. There is ‘good’ and ‘bad’ in everyone … all humans have a ‘dark side’ to their nature and a ‘light side’. The battle betwixt ‘Good and Evil’ has raged down through the centuries and it requires constant vigilance lest evil gets the upper hand. Morals and ethics seek to control the wayward self that lurks deep within the human breast … and some semblance of what is called ‘peace’ prevails for the main. Where morality and ethicality fails to curb the ‘savage beast’, law and order is maintained … at the point of a gun. The ending of malice and sorrow involves getting one’s head out of the clouds – and beyond – and coming down-to-earth where the flesh and blood bodies called human beings actually live. Obviously, the solution to all the ills of humankind can only be found here in space and now in time. Then the question is: is it possible to be free of the human condition, here on earth, in this life-time, as this flesh and blood body? Which means: How on earth can I live happily and harmlessly in the world as-it-is with people as-they-are whilst I nurse malice and sorrow in my bosom?
Me’ feeling bad is essentially this - an objection to the way things are. As such the solution with actualism isn’t to change the way things are (from one equally perfect arrangement to another) such as to appease ‘my’ objections. Rather it’s about removing ‘my’ objections to things being the way they are. This is the only possible way to successfully continuously (i.e. (relatively) unconditionally) enjoy and appreciate this moment of being alive, otherwise there will always be endless objections and changing things to appease ‘me’. The problem is ‘me’, not the universe.
Indeed this same spirit is applied in actualism – there is indeed a problem and it does indeed need resolving. It’s just that in the normal way, the problem is the universe and the solution is changing the universe, while in the actualist way, the problem is ‘me’ and the solution is changing ‘me’.
As such the world does not need to change in order for this perfection to permeate. No matter what state the world is in, what (conditional) arrangement of the matter and particles and humans and things in it – it is already all perfect. Who am ‘I’ to say that something is wrong with the way things are? It is akin to saying that water is ‘wrong’ for flowing downstream.
Thank you all for engaging with me and offering your insights into the actualism method. While I appreciate the opportunity for dialogue and the intentions behind your comments, I have to point out some inconsistencies and contradictions that have emerged.
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Acceptance vs. Prescriptiveness: The actualism method advises us to accept the world and people as they are. Yet, there’s a pervasive insistence that I should adopt a specific method or aim for a specific goal, such as self-immolation, rather than respecting my journey. This contradicts the principle of acceptance.
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Harmlessness: This method promotes the importance of being harmless. However, the tone and the response to my boundaries have been far from harmless. I’ve explicitly requested for my journey to be respected, yet this has been ignored.
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Autonomy and Independence: The dismissal of my choices and autonomy is blatant. The forum seems to suggest that their way is the only way to achieve a certain mental state, dismissing my own experiences and choices as substandard.
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Negative vs. Positive Engagement: The method emphasizes happiness and harmlessness, yet the tone has been decidedly negative, particularly when my perspectives diverge from the forum’s accepted narrative of only one method, all the others suck, and if you want us to help, it has to be. on our terms i.e. sign up and commit to the entirety of the method. (Apart from Claudiu, the tone has been of course cordial, but the harmful jab is ever present).
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Hypocrisy and Self-Righteousness: The claim that this is the only method that works in the world seems rather self-righteous and, quite frankly, hypocritical. Given the limited success stories related to this method, the confidence with which this claim is made is bewildering. Reminds me of the emperor’s new clothes.
I understand that this is a public forum, and feedback is a natural part of this environment. However, I was under the impression that this forum was open to multiple interpretations and personal journeys. I find myself compelled to reconsider my involvement here, given the above contradictions and the increasingly dogmatic tone. Which is a shame really, as AF is a fantastic method.
As such, I would appreciate it if you are not able to accept me as I am, and be harmless (repeatedly pressing the one big trigger that I ask you not to press is a harmful action in my view, and again further fleshes out the hypocrisy and double talk) could refrain from commenting on my future posts. If you choose to ignore this request, it would only further substantiate the lack of harmlessness and respect that I’ve observed here.
Here’s a heads up on the harmless option:
Bub, sure, go with whatever journey you want, we accept you as you are.
If you have AF doubts, we’re happy to clarify them for you.
Anything else will be percieved as a deliberately malicious and harmful action, in opposition to clearly stated preferences, and even the specifics of the method like accept the world as it is, and people as they are. The extents of the blind spots in relation to this is staggering.
This is a call to practice what you preach.
But there’s no controlling people, they will continue to behave as they always have, even if it’s in direct contradiction to all they purport to believe in.
Thank you for your attention, and I wish you all the best in your respective journeys.
Imagine a community garden, a place where everyone is invited to plant seeds of various kinds—flowers, fruits, vegetables, you name it, where each of us is given a patch of soil to cultivate. In this community, there are gardeners who swear by a specific type of fertilizer or a unique planting technique. They’ve had success with it and claim it’s the only method that guarantees growth. These gardeners go around insisting that others should only use their method, interrupting others’ natural processes and replacing foreign fertilizers with their own preferred one.
Yet, upon closer observation, you’ll notice that only a couple of patches are truly flourishing under this one-size-fits-all method, while the rest seem to struggle or are stuck in perpetual stagnation. Now, what happens when a new gardener arrives, eager to learn but also wanting to experiment with other types of soil, nutrients, or even seeds? Instead of celebrating the diversity and potential for new blossoming flowers or fruits, some members of the community immediately dismiss the newcomer’s ideas, claiming that only their fertilizer can yield results.
In their insistence, these gardeners have overlooked the essence of gardening itself: the miracle of life, the beauty of diversity, and the joy of witnessing growth in many forms and colors. They’re so fixated on their way of doing things that they miss out on the larger tapestry of life taking shape around them.