I slept in two sections, the second starting at sunrise.
I read the entire “This moment of being alive” as per the "rules for the religious believer " I jested about.
Her situation, the woman I spent 5 hours with yesterday, and had spoken with around 3 years ago, is dire.
It stirs up the feelings around my brother. Yet, because of the success I had recently in feeling good and discovery, today it obvious to see I can’t help anyone who hasn’t decided to improve their own life.
My texts went unanswered, as I offered help with one of the major issues she faces.
Yet, I actually began to feel good after reading Richards words. I didn’t have to investigate anything, as it is obvious right there mentally in front of me, the years of reading and investigations; compassion is useless except for any action it may include. Yet, once sensible action is taken, there’s nothing more to be done.
Chasing, arguing, playing games where the other expects one’s feelings to compel one to further action out of pity, or worse, desire for something in return, is instantly seen as silly.
And as importantly, there is no animosity, or callousness in feeling good. Whatever help I feel comfortable (and even a bit uncomfortable) offering, is offered.
I started from a point of not having had or recollected a PCE as well. I can remember being incredulous about the validity of such an experience. Maybe, I had an advantage over you in that the very close friend who introduced me to AF found out about Richard and the site because it was the PCE that he recalled and was trying to find a description for. He had a PCE again during drug taking experiences which rekindled his memory of the experiences like that in his childhood, this started his quest to find out something comparable. I guess our relationship was very close and I didn’t think this was something he would lie about. It also made sense for me as to why a fellow atheist had a period of exploring spirituality because he was trying to find evidence of that experience, something I couldn’t understand at all at first and held against him. It was helpful to have someone who could help me describe and share feedback when I began having different experiences, to be able to verify my first PCE with him by comparison of description as well as what is written on the site. I didn’t realise how useful that was to have. It can be so much harder alone, hence kudos to Richard for not relying on anybody else but his only experiential reference points and conviction that it could be a permanent state.
Whether or not I was fully open to the idea that a PCE was possible I still eventually couldn’t deny the sense in being happy and harmless and that this is the only moment of time. I had already realised my emotions were making me be manipulated like Pinocchio on strings, moving me here and there even if I didn’t want to. Why not pick the optimal emotional responses possible in the whole spectrum of emotions.
The big shift was taking responsibility for me own happy and harmlessness but also being open to the possibility that I can change my behaviour and nature, seeing that you can make progress in this domain is itself a fascinating achievement. To some degree, I had already realised this with focusing on the highs from imagination and learning, so I knew it was possible to change behaviour. Eventually, I learned the hard way and serendipitously that imagination and learning highs failed to help in the most extreme of emotions, they couldn’t deliver the results absolutely and unconditionally. I had to learn that the hard way I guess.
So countless times I have been side tracked, love, creative highs, trauma, depression, rejection, horniness…but I have always found myself getting back on track.
When I was run over, my immune system was so down that not only did I have anxiety/depression but then the following year afterwards I had multiple chest infections, norovirus, tonsillitis and other constant colds, tooth abscess and other issues. It was like there was no end to the suffering. But there was a way out and it was possible to endure, you are stronger and tougher than you realise and against challenges you haven’t yet (and may never have to) endure. There is always a new moment again another opportunity to do something or to feel something different even, if not able to get to a felicitous state.
I have had a few emotional dips in the last month but they are definitely not lasting as long or as intense. Before, when in that funk, it was like there there would be no way out and no end to feeling that way. That feeling that there is no way out has changed now and it doesn’t feel so unchangeable either. Nothing feels solid, emotionally, like I am more malleable.
What comes to mind now when having a felicitous and good EE patch that when I feel bad again, it is like “…oh, I didn’t think it was possible for me to feel bad like this again.” Which is of course silly, I am a feeling being and that is still possible but previously it was flipped the other way around, I was always feeling more bad and then felicitous states would be the surprise “…oh wow I can feel this pleasant…it is possible”. So, things change, sometimes gradual and sometimes fast.
I know I haven’t had a PCE since my accident but I am not letting that stop me from enjoying and appreciating this moment of being alive. I am not letting it become an excuse anymore. I had some really nice EE’s this weekend.
You are in the marketplace so to speak and getting ample opportunities to see how you tick.
To me, at least in the way you communicate you convey that a lot has changed for you, it seems there have been positive changes. And if that is not the case and a misinterpretation on my side, no worries you have a new opportunity right now.
Yes, I am progressing mainly by eliminating “waiting”. Just do it. In whatever way I can.
There is no more time to waste.
This particular interaction/ association with this woman is producing a lot of obvious triggers.
One’s I don’t want to feel. The impotence. The forced empathy, the fear of being drawn into the gaze of organised crime. Being exposed as someone who barely knows what his obscure internet cult is actually all about.
It is back pressure for sure.
At the same time my ex fiancee was just able to get her younger brother out of Russia ahead of the “partial mobilisation” of 300000 Russian reserves. I just watch the cursor blinking on the screen for ages when trying to respond to that conversation.
Nothing like war and a suicidal friend, to juxtapose against any tendancy to wait anymore.
The other…be it woman or man…that potential acquaintance or more…surprising how many different triggers they can cause, based on their personality type, their social status, belief system and so many other variables.
Haha, I always feared to be conceived as belonging to a cult. The need to project at all times a sense of utter independence from anyone or anybody, hence why I find it hard to align with any political, spiritual or philosophical branch.
This has come to my mind a lot since the news was announced. Playing out hypothetical “what ifs” if I was in the same situation. Her brother is very lucky. I heard there was a spike in people in Russia googling how to break their own arms so as to get out of the call up.
I know people who have had to do military service for mandatory number of years as per the law of their home country…but I don’t recall such a big call up for a war or conflict in my lifetime.
It made me think of people in the Vietnam war lottery like drafts and then conscription in World Wars 1 and 2. The psychological impact just from knowing you are to be drafted let alone what awaits.
I may as well write about this one, considering I can’t sleep.
Repentance.
Being a penitent man.
I’ve been considering some of the feedback my new friend is freely giving about me. As many have said, I am very hard on myself, most of the time, not even realising that I am doing it.
I don’t explicitly feel bad doing it. It’s such a natural mode of thinking that I really began wondering today about it. Whilst asking what is in the way of me allowing EEs and PCEs to happen.
It follows on from the shame of feeling relieved if my friend had died. The relief is about this pressure to be something I was forced to be. Perhaps. More to come on that I guess.
The over-arching reality is religious repentance.
It’s surely linked with the default mode of being harsh and self critical, without even realising it.
It’s the conditioning, all 25 years of Christianity, plus the years of Buddhism to a lesser extent, of being fundamentally sorry for who I am. An all pervasive reality of penitence.
It seems a lot of people have this problem. For me it seems to have stemmed from having a parent who was strict and constantly critical but in a destructive way rather than constructive. It seems most people who I have met who have this tendency have had 1 or both parents/guardians be like this or their parent/guardian was a perfectionist and never gave them praise for anything (so no negative criticism but no praise either). Though there a few people I have met who have this tendency but their parents were supportive, it was just some internal perfectionist/critical mindset they had developed themselves.
Now that I have met more successful people, I have noticed they have a tendency to be ok with mistakes and failures and just view it all as some form of learning experience. They don’t beat themselves up about it or then completely avoid the thing they failed at.
When I had a recent downer, it was triggered from my kids being bullied which is the first time that has happened. This aggression just triggered in me. Like I could have easily have stamped on this kids head until there was nothing left of his face but my footprint. Then it was like self judgement and self disappointed that despite recent progress I was able to allow myself to be potentially so aggressive and harmful. I felt more like I had to suppress the intense anger because I failed to nip it in the bud. Plus I was then feeling bad that there are horrible people and horrible parents who don’t take into account or acknowledge when their own children are harmful or just nasty.
To be honest, I have only been that level of angry once before, when my eldest was a baby and an incident happened with rude people. It is not very often something has triggered that nurture related aggression in me. It seems so much more than the anger I have ever felt for myself or anything else. To see blind natures pushing and pulling…it all seems so silly with hindsight.
It was like a few days had to play out to allow myself to cool down and be ok with my choices and reactions. That natural inclination to want to berate myself for my failings.
This sounds interesting, it sounds like a complicated friendship to be that relieved.
I have never known this experience, though I have seen it in play in family/friends and ex-girlfriends. This and asceticism/austerity seem to be difficult parts for people who I have known who have renounced Abrahamic religions, like guilt for hedonism, success or so many things. When my mum’s mental health is at its worse, interestingly she reverts to a more Christian identity, and guilt and shame abounds. When well, she believes in God but not in organised religion. It is like two different people. Like yourself it is part of the process of her having been raised Christian, maybe she hasn’t really reconciled that impact repentance has on her.
I did this with the recent aggression experience, lamenting how rotten I am. Took me a few days to then get out of the slump and remember this is just more evidence for why I am doing this whole process. As long as I am a feeling being I am potentially capable of such reactions.
When I first started asking myself what was in the way, three words were immediately in my mind.
Repentance, Supplication, Surrender.
I went “whoa, boy, you are just intellectualising this!”.
Tonight, I decided to experiment with those experiences I had when meditating. The experience of “meditation” but I end up lost in daydreaming, but am then not even conscious of daydreaming, like falling asleep. Then, “coming to”, the room is very immanent, but my normal self quickly comes back.
It was surprisingly easy to get into that state. I didn’t replicate the experience, but there was a sense of patches of it as I drifted.
I ended up sleeping on the couch, but still running the question of why I would pull back from whatever that immanence experience is.
Supplication and Surrender.
Begging.
The memory of years of feeling bad standing at the front of church, trying to have these experiences that others seem to be having. Being “slain” in the spirit. Falling down.
It never genuinely happened to me.
I latched onto the investigation aspect of actualism, but no matter what I tried couldn’t go for the experience of PCE.
I remember the most significant experience from my mid twenties ended with me internally saying “don’t stuff this up!”.
Indeed. Organised crime, drug addiction, bi-polar, highly promiscuous, unhealthy, highly intelligent, stubborn. Triggers galore for me. A world I already seen enough of. We are talking only. She is highly intelligent, yet it is depressing to hear all the normal tropes. Love and Connection are the answers!! The same answers I heard from my recent ex, a would-be-country-club type. Is it really just me generalising?
I have decided to pull back and see if there is any decision on her part to find out what is possible in life. Not get anymore involved until there is some response from all the talking we have done. I have been very explicit and descriptive about actualism. Very open about myself.
Hey @henryyyyyyyyyy … I guess we are in the exact same boat…It’s not impossible to find sufficiently pleasant people ime but the trouble can begin at these points :
How much of Actualism to talk about in the initial contact times ? Actualism is so radical that it’s pretty much guaranteed that the other person will run away if for example Actualism’s stance on love is discussed. I speak from experience so I gave up this approach pretty much…
Let’s say you don’t discuss about love initially…just go out n have a good time…this is infact pretty much how it plays out normally. Sooner or later, the next stage would be expression of love from your partner. How does one proceed as an actualist now ? In my last relationship, I could say “hey I do have those feelings too, but I don’t believe in expressing all this”…and she was ok with it for a while hehe
It’s a bit of a tricky situation…perhaps more so because of the constant media bombardment with expressions of love in movies…there is probably an additional Indian problem due to Bollywood influence on Indian women’s psyche…(which effect is even more amplified perhaps by the songs n dances lol)
But then Richard also says how women relate to love as the authority, so it’s not just an Indian women thing
I learned from @JonnyPitt and @edzd visiting that it seems I’m more liberal about talking about actualism than most, but a lot of what I’ve learned from doing that is that most - like 90% - of people won’t get it, much less ‘be interested’ / get on board
The other side of that is that talking to so many people I’ve learned a bit about how to approach the subject. That’s only come from experience.
The discussing love thing is interesting… I think for some free people they just carry on ‘as normal’ and haven’t even told their partners about actualism. I don’t think that’s the approach I’ll ever take, but I can understand it. In this approach, it only makes sense to say things like ‘I love you.’
In my most recent relationship I tried being super open about actualism, even encouraging her to pick it up, but it never panned out - she never fully picked up on it, even after having PCEs. Eventually, after the breakup, she said part of it was wanting to be in a relationship with an emphasis on love. Which is understandable - she has to experientially find out what it’s like. Most likely, she will spend the rest of her life trying to make love work.
Being so open and communicative about it didn’t do what I hoped it would, which is make her understand actualism and want to do it herself. It takes some other kind of understanding which I could never give her.
That’s basically how I see talking about actualism with others now. I can’t give someone else understanding, they have to have it for themselves. I can only remind them of it, maybe spark the fuel that’s already there. And with that, again, it’s very few people.
After exploring the territory around the immanence experiences that had been collecting dust in my memory, falling asleep on the couch, I was awake and eventually went to bed, but not before daydreaming about becoming free.
It evolved into the usual having a daughter dream, this time as an actually free father with an actually free partner. But from there took a really awesome turn. She was, as a baby, able to essentially stare people into freedom. Hundreds of actually free people later, spontaneous actual freedom started to happen. Actual freedom was “in the wild”, spreading like a virus.
The systems of the world were turned upside down. Actually free folks discussing what to do with the trillions of dollars worth of weapons which were now useless. F-35 fighters, sitting collecting dust. Borders non existent. Medical research going crazy, with cures and help for all.
Half way through the fantasy, I remarked to myself “I needed this!!”. I needed to imagine a world without the ‘human condition’, a world of unimaginable implications.
Today, when I ask “how am I experiencing…” I also remind myself
“No Surrender.
No Penitence,
No Supplication
No Awe, Dread, or Fear”.
I took Richard’s advice to me and talked about PCEs on first dates. Not with the jargon but just relating experiences. My advice is do the same. Go with the ones that are interested and/or have something to share with that then you know from the start they are open to it
With a few first dates it just didn’t even come up, I didn’t find an opening to mention it. I was bored on those dates lol, didn’t go for seconds.
The other thing that I would do is instead of trying to shit on love I would put the focus on : intimacy and happiness. That can be a middle ground which can be grasped I think a lot of women especially might appreciate a man who wants intimacy. As in I am interested in great intimacy and happiness with my partner and getting rid of anything that prevents it.
Experiential report in point: when I experience heightened intimacy whilst gazing tenderly at my partner, when she looks at me and notices she says that I’m giving her a sweet look. This intimacy is a nice thing not a dirty thing to be hidden …
then you know from the start they are open to it
not a dirty thing to be hidden …