I’d be interested to join, AKST
I have scheduled the first get together to start on Saturday 13 at 2100 GMT/UTC. Local times:
Los Angeles 1300
Florida/Cancun 1600
CET 2200
Perth 0500 (Sunday)
Sydney 0800 (Sunday)
I will post the link here on discourse prior to the meeting. Depending on what operating system you are using it may be necessary to download an app. Details can be found at Join Meeting - Zoom
The meeting will be recorded and may be made public in whole or in part so please do not use any non-public names of participants or disclose any personal details without permission. You can find out what details are publicly available by clicking on the participant’s icon/profile picture (these are already available to non-members) – clicking on your own icon enables you to edit what details are publicly shown (change this if you do not want your registered name to be visible).
If anyone has any comments or suggestions, or concerns about privacy, please post them here. Remember one of the main reasons we moved to discourse was to raise our public profile. You can still be anonymous and do not have to use video nor audio, though it would obviously be to everyone’s benefit - and yours - to do so. Video and audio will be on by default but I think you have the opportunity to turn them off before joining.
Depending on the number of participants it maybe useful to use “raise hand“ if you want to contribute or ask a question. It also lets others see that you wish to do so. Details of how to raise a hand can be found HERE
Many thanks to Miguel for his invaluable assistance in getting this set up.
1 Like
Hey @Alanji thanks for setting this up.
Is there a reason we are going to make the video public possibly? Is that something everyone wants/has agreed on?
Personally I don’t see a need for that and personally would be more inclined to participate openly if it wasn’t being recorded for potential publishing 
.
I reckon everyone will be hiding… whereas without it being recorded then the whole affair will be more fun/frank/open IMO. Put it to a vote?
I think the priority should be each person’s chance to contribute openly, for their own individual progress, rather than a group motive to “spread the message” online.
Felix: Is there a reason we are going to make the video public possibly?
Alan: There are two very good reasons for possibly making the video publicly available:
The obvious one is that others may benefit from seeing the video - becoming interested in actualism for the first time or making progress.
The less obvious one, but possibly more important, is that participants are revealing intimate details about themselves to the whole wide world. “Nothing left to hide” is not an armchair philosophy.
Felix: Is that something everyone wants/has agreed on?
Alan: I don’t think so. Anyone can choose to set up a private video chat of course. There is tacit agreement that, by moving to discourse, participants agreed to share publicly.
Felix: Personally I don’t see a need for that and personally would be more inclined to participate openly if it wasn’t being recorded for potential publishing
Alan: I recall in our first video chat suggesting you were being rather paranoid which you readily agreed with. You do not seem to have made much progress on that front. You again have a tremendous opportunity to investigate the reasons. What is your big secret and is it more frightening than anyone else’s? The amusing thing is, that I (and all those who are actually or virtually free) know exactly what your secret is. ‘You’ have already been found out LOL
Felix: I reckon everyone will be hiding… whereas without it being recorded then the whole affair will be more fun/frank/open IMO. Put it to a vote?
Alan: It is not up for a vote. As I said, anyone can set up a private video chat. It is also up to you whether to turn your video on or off should you decide to join in. I am sure your participation would be of benefit, both for others and yourself.
This is the link to the get together.
Alan is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting.
Time: Nov 13, 2021 21:00 London
Los Angeles 1300
Florida/Cancun 1600
CET 2200
Perth 0500 (Sunday)
Sydney 0800 (Sunday)
Join Zoom Meeting
The less obvious one, but possibly more important, is that participants are revealing intimate details about themselves to the whole wide world. “Nothing left to hide” is not an armchair philosophy.
Well, not even actually free people have done, so not sure why you are holding up exhibitionism as an ideal.
There is tacit agreement that, by moving to discourse, participants agreed to share publicly.
I don’t think that using discourse means that participants are all wanting to “go public” about everything and have signed their rights away just by using this forum.
Alan: I recall in our first video chat suggesting you were being rather paranoid which you readily agreed with.
Talking about stuff from a private chat (and providing your own interpretation of what was said) is not particularly considerate Alan. You seem to want to be a kind of “actualism nudist” but not everyone wants to do that (including some of the actually free).
You do not seem to have made much progress on that front. You again have a tremendous opportunity to investigate the reasons. What is your big secret and is it more frightening than anyone else’s?
I am sure there are feelings and beliefs at play, nevertheless even actually free people take measures to keep a handle on their internet privacy. It makes practical sense to do so. Handing over control of this recorded audio/video to yourself is not something I would care to do personally, particularly given your general attitude and demeanour about it.
The amusing thing is, that I (and all those who are actually or virtually free) know exactly what your secret is.
Do you not see the irony of this statement?
'You’ have already been found out LOL
You really seem to be relishing your perceived position of authority as a “virtually free” person here. I hope I will remember not to call myself virtually free before ridding myself of the good feelings which come from flaunting some kind of status I believe myself to have.
Alan: It is not up for a vote.
Again, if this is your attitude, I’m personally not keen to participate in “Alan’s next experiment”.
Thanks for organising this Alan. I will try to make it. No need to adjust anything for my sake, as it’s never going to be easy.
I will check in later and catch up with the plans here.
Great Andrew. Hope you can pop in for at least a little while.
I’ve had great fun getting it all set up. Dona, Miguel and I had a trial session yesterday and the zoom platform looks to offer all that we require.
If enough people are interested perhaps we can have different meetings at different times with different participants. My ultimate ambition (needing a lot more active members) is to have a chat room permanently open for anyone to join at any time.
2 Likes
Wow Felix that is some response.
You have chosen to attack me (water off a ducks back) rather than look at some of the issues my posts have brought up for you.
Entirely up to you of course.
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@Alanji I won’t be able to attend, but were I to come I wouldn’t want it to be recorded either. I think it’s best to take a vote and record only if there are no objections. I can see no purpose of recording such meetings except for for the participants own benefit - but people can also take notes.
Sorry to hear that.
So far as recording is concerned, my initial intention was to make the recording available only to participants or possibly registered members (I think this is possible$). Possibly at a later date I might publish an extract if it were particularly inspiring or informative (maybe with permission¥) - like Geoffrey‘s zoom recording which has inspired a lot of people, me included. Surely this could be of possible great benefit to others.
What is your objection to video recording? Is it the fact there is a video in which you could be recognised, which I can understand, but it is possible to turn off your video (not ideal). What about voice recording? It is possible to record voice only and also to publish voice only.
¥ an undertaking to publish only with permission could be rather meaningless. There is nothing to prevent anyone with a copy from publishing it. (Other than pure intent of course😉)
$ these are the options which are available. Not sure what “authenticated users” or some other options mean.
Share this cloud recording
Share this recording
Publicly
OR
Only authenticated users can view: Signed-in users in my account
Add expiry date to the link
Viewers can download
View recording on demand (registration required)
Passcode protection
Sunday morning tends to be a busy time for me. Late morning onwards is better. Anyway I’ve got a birthday party this Sat and can’t make it. I don’t want you to work around me as it’s unclear when I can join. You should all go ahead though. I think it’s a fine idea.
I don’t have anything against recording per se. It’s just that - at this stage anyway - I wouldn’t want an informal chat I’m involved in to be recorded. More a preference right now than some hard objection. Lots of reasons: privacy, spontaneity, comfort, not wanting something I say casually to be captured for posterity and taken out of context etc. I might change my mind about this down the track.
you have chosen to attack me (water off a ducks back) rather than look at some of the issues my posts have brought up for you.
On the contrary, lately I am more open to how I am feeling than ever, with a lot less actualist morality keeping a lid on things. That doesn’t mean I plan to start expressing left, right and centre, but whereas usually I might have essentially pretended to be harmless by not writing what I mean, I did my best job at the time of writing something fair whilst being aware of feelings as well.
I realised lately I have so many actualist rules for myself (such as cognitively reframing as you just have that everything is “water off a ducks back” whilst repressing feelings), that I am choosing to explore my feelings a lot more.
I think we feeling beings in this forum are probably all guilty of trying to act like we are already free. It’s such a trap. My aim is to be as harmless as possible but I will no longer repress feelings in order to offer a poor man’s imitation of harmlessness (which breaks down so easily under pressure anyway).
In terms of what I wrote, I don’t see an attack. But yeah I am pushing back on what looks to me like an attempt to exert some status and authority in this group. As an example, look at the way you responded to @Srinath’s concerns about recording compared to how you responded to me. You might find some beliefs about hierarchy/status there.
Just my two cents - I think a vote is superfluous as there’s already a vote implicit in it, which is who wants to participate. Alan wants to do this chat his way. He is the one setting it up so of course it’s up to him. His way is to record the video so as to be a benefit to others, that’s Alan’s opinion that it will be beneficial, others may disagree.
The people that agree with the format, ‘vote’ by participating, and those that don’t, don’t. I don’t see anything ‘wrong’ with this. Anyone can set up their own chat, and organize the time, get people to participate, etc, without recording it.
And whoever does participate can do so to the degree they feel comfortable - from most anonymous (no video, pseudonym) to least anonymous (video, real name (first & last?? lol)).
And whoever doesn’t want to participate - it is their choice, nothing gained nor lost.
If Alan’s goal was to get as many people to participate, then he could hold a vote and pick the format such that the most people participate. But if his goal is to record a video chat among people who want to be recorded, then that is a different matter and a vote doesn’t make sense.
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I think you hit the nail on the head, @claudiu, and Alan must choose between the possibility of having more participants without recording, or recording with fewer participants.
Personally I have no problem with my voice being recorded (and not because it probably won’t come out due to my inability to speak English 
) or my image (although those who see my face live -as in Geoffrey’s meeting-, will doubt that the one in the picture is still me, so maybe it’s time to change that photo… 
).
That said, I do have a preference to hear from more of you. So I would prefer Alan not to record the meeting if that way Felix participated (or anyone else who may have decided -may be without saying so- not to do it for that reason).
However, maybe Alan wants to privilege the possibility of sharing it over the number of participants.
So, as @claudiu said, Alan is free to record or not his meeting, and the rest of us are free to participate or not in it.
I have no special desire to record, especially the early meetings (assuming we have more). As I already said, possibly the greatest benefit would be enabling the participants to listen to what has been discussed. This was a great boon during the intimate ambience experiment which Claudiu recorded.
It is also possible to record the conversation (not using the zoom recording) without anyone ever knowing, so giving any sort of undertaking could be superfluous. However, it’s all we’ve got. Let’s see what people think (multiple choices possible):
Accessing recording
- Share with participants only
- Share with discourse registered members
- Share only with anyone who requests the link
- Publish the link on the forum (discoverable)
0 voters
Yikes. Zoom meetings are recordable without anyone knowing? I guess this is true for all conversations everywhere. Time to re-think privacy expectations. 
. Personally, I love the idea of a permanent room for face to face talk. But I hate the idea of anyone being able to record incognito. This is especially true for any conversations that can turn personal as these would more often than not.
Yes true of all conversations. TBH I have not tested recording video but am pretty sure it is easy (certainly for anyone fairly competent). Dona sometimes records my conversations with the oncologist and doctors (very useful).
I always assume that anything I put out on the Internet - video, chat, email et cetera is publicly available/visible.
Why do you hate the idea Jon?
Because it’s so easy to do. A phone call can be recorded but I never think of it. It takes a little bit more conniving malice to set it up and it would be much harder to be used against me for no one knows who I am. No one knows my face. That changes with zoom. So some dummy can just press record while I’m talking about that one time I peed on a cat while rimming myself to the sweet melodies of Enya. Then go and put it on YouTube. And now my future employer at the pet store has second thoughts about hiring me.
LOL Good tale Jon. Hope it’s tue 