War

On a more positive note, I had a long discussion with my mother this morning right after regaining some of my senses. She’s been feeling, in her own words, “completely empty, like there’s nothing worth living for anymore”. I gave her something as close to the facts as I could possibly get and forwarded her the Simple Actualism webpage. We’ve always had a dynamic where I’ve had to take care of her mentally and at times it’s made me very angry, but currently we rarely fight and she seems to have broken out of her passiveness a bit. She was sad when we spoke about what’s possibly going to happen, but she reflected that hearing something closer to the facts made everything a lot more bearable for her, even though the facts might currently not be pleasant for either of us.

We’re discussing contingency plans and I’ve been contacting people to see if there’s work for me elsewhere in the world if I need to relocate. My paranoia had luckily made me stock up on everything necessary since a few years back, including medicines and equipment, and we have a house far away from any city center where we could go if things look bad.

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This seems sensible :smiley: . Sweden is far closer to Russia than Portugal… at least you have Finland as a buffer… but seems to make sense to set up these plans, hopefully not needed but if so you will want to have them…

Romania is right on the border with Ukraine. Hoping that won’t spill over… at least historically it wasn’t in the USSR, but that won’t necessarily stop Russia.

Portugal seems safe for foreseeable future… who is gonna wanna bomb Portugal? :smiley:

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Honestly, from the other side of the world, with a lifetime interest in Russia (even was made to study the revolution in high school), i have no doubt that Putin has zero plans for expanding Russian territory.

My vague impression is that he feels his duty is to secure some final flex before his reign is over. He just spent his entire adult life rebuilding (if that’s the actual case i don’t know) his country.

Maybe, without even knowing it, this is his best effort to secure respect for Russia whilst also ensuring his own demise. I think that people are far too judgemental of Russian leaders. Sure, it’s been more brutal than i can even fathom, but so was all of Russian history. Like, every single bit was a bloody, mud soaked, sub zero, grind.

The Freudian school was famous for introducing the concept of “death instinct” to discussing why people did such illogical and self destructive things. One can also, though very quietly, suggest Putin (like many drawn to leadership) actually have very strong nurturing instinct. Not in any motherly way, but in a very brutal way. That the idea of one’s identity and country are worth every moment and effort.

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*expanding beyond historic territory, i should say.

Russia has never shown anything like true colonialism, or empire building. Not even close.

Name an African nation speaking Russian.

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I will relate a story, which while completely anecdotal, was really quite something to me.

I was in Moscow, with my then fiance`.

I was at the supermarket, on my own, looking for cranberry juice. I didn’t know the Russian for cranberry juice, and was looking and translating all these different names.

(yes, she had a UTI, for the record).

Before going to Russia, i was quite intimidated about meeting Russian men. For obvious reasons.

Yet, there i was, obviously foreign, obviously struggling to complete my errand.

A Russian man came up to me, and putting his hand on my shoulder, helped me, through my broken Russian and lots of pointing and google translation, to find what i was looking for.

I felt a warmth from this complete stranger that i have never felt in Australia.

I don’t think this scene would even happen here in Australia.

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I share you sentiments Andrew. It’s interesting yet unsurprising how much backlash there is whenever there is the slightest hint towards a more multipolar world order, whenever the West’s hegemony is poked at.

Even on the AFT I always notice when global conflicts/hotspots have been discussed there has been a tendency to highlight the aggressive nature of the country being invaded/the country under occupation, its leaders and if I remember correctly its people.

I get that no one is innocent, I’ve come to understand this experientially, but pro-western bias, which is a deviation from fact, still seems to prevail in much of the literature.

This is not something I feel, it can be verified. And I get that the solution isn’t cheering on the underdog and that it is to become actually free, but these conflicts/global power struggles are great opportunities to weed out biases that we harbour.

All you need are facts (we should do a lame remix of the Beatles song)

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There are still some Alaskan villages that speak Russian… and let’s not forget that most of Siberia wasn’t under Russian control until the 17th Century, around the same time that the Portuguese were colonizing Brazil. I think that qualifies

Being a bit pedantic but it isn’t so different (:

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Haha, @henryyyyyyyyyy :rofl:

Yeah, I don’t think anyone in Russia has forgiven Catherine for selling that.

I noticed that Richard and Vineeto spent a lot of time looking into world affairs on the net when i was over there. It would be awesome to know what they make of the situation.

Is there anything on the AFT about when Vineeto came to Australia?

I was really hoping the second round of talks was going end the war. I kept checking rhe news.

What amazed me was that there was a delay at all! I still don’t understand why it took days for there to be peace talks, and then even more days to have more peace talks.

It mind boggling to imagine that. The bigger picture of course is that this conflict (open hostility and death) has been going on since 2014. They have had 2 agreements drawn up previously.

There is heaps of work coming onto the market in your field i think… So many programmers / developers etc in Russia wouldn’t be getting paid now, and companies i guess are questioning whether they can keep using Russian talent.

As i mentioned elsewhere, i know of a perth based company that the whole programming team is Russian (or at least from the area).

Obviously, war is the worst thing going on here, but the “soft” damage to people is what has me wondering about the direction all this will go in. Without work, and in high inflation times, people suffer so much that i have to wonder which way it will go.

I am glad to hear you have a plan @emp

What do the other Europeans here think of the situation for themselves?

Are others looking at contingency plans?

One of the factors i keep noticing is just how big, even these otherwise “tiny” nations are. The sheer number of people. Ukraine has nearly twice the people of Australia.

Putting nuclear war aside, invading and keeping a country intact is very hard. All those millions and millions of unwilling new “subjects”.

Hi, @emp.

My wife (P.) is currently corresponding with a female Russian friend we met for the first time in Argentina a long time ago, who is devastated by what is going on.

I suddenly thought that maybe it would be useful for you -and/or for someone else, why not- to hear excerpts of her words “from the other side”, and my wife’s, also from another background than that of actualists (as I stated elsewhere, she practices Logosofía (Logosophy), a spiritual discipline). So, the idea is not to analyze/discuss later from the actualist perspective the correctness or incorrectness of my friend’s or my wife’s concepts; it is simply to share them).

I had to shorten, rephrase and translate these fragments without much care so as not to invest a lot more time (our friend writes and speaks good Spanish).

:heavy_minus_sign:

Our friend (working in another country, a few days before returning to Russia):

“I am having a terrible time. I remember the last existential crisis when I was 18 years old and I lacked motivation to study for exams. I couldn’t find meaning in that activity without finding meaning in being alive first. Now something similar is happening with work. I have some editorial stuff to finish on the article I have to send before the end of the month. I’ll get to it. But what does that matter, when my government sent people to kill other people for no reason?
I feel so much shame, so much incomprehension and weakness. As I felt when I was writing to you about our elections, only multiplied by a million. I understand that the only thing I can do is “Keep calm and carry on”. I will try. But it is very difficult. And you know, I think if anything good can come of it, it’s to collectively see what a horror it is and how to prevent it. Although previous history lessons proved to be insufficient…”

P.:

“I think that the cause of many sorrows and joys is the identification that we generate with the world around us. The problem lies in the chimerical world that human imagination generates, which separates us from the natural reality. You are much more than a Russian, as I am more than an Argentinean… just as these are not our governments.
Be careful, identification is not stupid; it gives satisfaction to the ego, for example by making us proud to be Russian or Argentinean. Notice how much identification influences us, that we use the verb “to be” in expressions such as “I am a doctor” (instead of “I work as a doctor” or “I graduated in medicine”); “I am Argentine” (instead of “I was born in Argentina” or “I was born Argentinian”). We can identify more and more with “higher” aspects of these identifications, but limited by the very existence of the ego. That is why I believe that the best thing we can do is to observe ourselves and to see how identification operates; and only by discovering that internal fiction as something alien to us, we can access the natural reality.
I hope you can observe yourself, write as a relief and focus with joy on your work, which is part of your contribution to a better humanity”.

Our friend:

“I think what you say is part of what stresses me out, and I’m going to work with that. But another part has to do with deciding if it’s my fight. I don’t have any strength for it, but I feel all the responsibility. I also fear the consequences, which get worse every day. I have to do something, not only because I was born here, but because it is human. And because what our government do is pure evil”.

P.:

"I am going with two different topics:

  • I do not know if you and I have to decide whether it is our fight or not, but in which battlefield we are going to fight it… Our responsibility and involvement is undoubtedly different because of those identifications I had mentioned. It is not because of the “real reality”, since human beings are also killing each other -also without justified reasons- in other countries. This war matters more to us because it is seen through the lens of those identifications. But what is your primary responsibility? Which are secondary?
    Yesterday, there was a march at the Ukrainian embassy in Buenos Aires in order to repudiate Russia, which I did not attend. With the information I had and in touch with my “wisdom”, I made a decision for which I am responsible (at least according to my level of consciousness).
    By chance, at the same time I was reading the story “The Overcoat/The cloak” by Nicolas Gogol.
    I suggest you to check what you call “responsible” because, why these deaths are more important from the point of view of responsibility than the ones in other wars/countries? You are not responsible for giving a military order, but neither are you responsible for Gogol’s genius. However, you feel shame for one, and pride for the other. Interesting, isn’t it?

  • In relation to others being/doing pure evil…
    If you start from that premise, the only thing left for them is extermination. This closes the doors of conciliation, of understanding the reasons they have, of approaching them. To understand the other is not to support, it is not to agree, but to understand how those human beings come to believe that the only path they have is that of violence. What values do they believe they are defending? Which of those values and beliefs relate with me?
    We are repulsed by the idea of having something in common with someone who supports war, but if we look at the issue in terms of degrees, we have more in common than we would like; it’s just that many of us have not yet reached that extreme.
    If you ask me, I see more evil in the media, in digital games, in social networks… Because the global damage generated by these alienations consists in distancing us from ourselves, the only means through which we could stop harming and damaging us and others. If we look at the damage we do, there are always unconscious human beings behind; not just “greedy” or “arrogant”. And that unconsciousness generates mirages that arouse in us the desire to fight the evil outside of us in order not to see it within.
    So, I invite you to reflect on where that evil is and if you can do more to eliminate it".

Our friend (in Moscow):

“You are right and you made me reconsider the subject during those days. It also helped the feedback I received today during my flight from more or less neutral observers. They see the conflict from a perspective surprisingly different than how I see it. I form sentences about the war using the pronoun “we”. Noticing this made me take more distance, feel less guilty and less willing to act influenced by my emotions. I also find it interesting to think about how people arrive at such cruel and fatal decisions. I look at the arguments they present and the interests that might drive them.
When I get some rest from the travel and adapt to life in Moscow again, I will work harder to look for that evil inside me… But I’m also going to think about how I can reasonably act to alleviate the damage this war is doing, since compared to war in other countries I feel more capable of doing so. It may just be wishful thinking; may be people’s opinion can’t change in my country. I wouldn’t be surprised, but I feel I need to at least think in that direction… I think “responsibility” is not the right word, although I think I felt it that way when I wrote to you last time. Now I perceive it more as the possible ability to collaborate with some change. It seems to me that it is worth making the attempt, with as little risk as possible to my own life and well-being.
At night I get very scared. Sometimes I feel that I need to focus on my inner world, and sometimes that if I ignore what is happening, soon nothing is going to happen to me. There is so much uncertainty and so much fear in everyone; for our lives and for the lives of others. Fear doesn’t help at all, but it is very hard to fight it without trying to ignore the outside world at the same time”.

P.:

“We have more internal resources to face adversity than we think. Not only we can live with the hope that better days will come: we also have a great power of adaptation. This power reduces suffering because it allows us to accommodate to the environment and to detect the suffering that does not come from outside, but from guilt or from believing that we can do something to change the inner reality of others, but we are mostly unable to.
Welcome fear as an alert that sees the storm at sea in the distance; but accepting it (likewise anxiety and uncertainty) as a circumstantial companion of the journey does not imply giving it the wheel of the ship. You have ahead of you, every minute, a dark path or -I’m not going to say “luminous”- a less dark one. You can choose; you are still free to get out of that darkness”.

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@Miguel I wish I could give two hearts. Thank you so much for sharing that.

It’s been a couple of very rough days and I didn’t realize how much this has really affected me until I sat down and realized that I can no longer go to Kiev, and that the worst is yet to come. I can no longer go to Russia, maybe never again. So much has changed. I haven’t even managed to register half of it.

“Sharing feelings” might not really be a prescribed actual freedom method but seeing that I’m not the only one who’s drowning in conflicting feelings helps. I’m so, so sorry about this. Why the fuck do we do this? Fuck this hellish shit, brb, becoming actually free.

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I will add though: something is off.

Whoever is playing this game does not care about us one inch. I’m starting to think that we’re all being used here. We have a total breakdown of diplomacy and no off-ramps on anything. I feel like I’m screaming into the oncoming void while everyone’s cheering this on in the name of righteous anger.

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Hi @emp

When we say “Russia”, talking about this war, do we really mean it’s government and military? I think we do mean that. I don’t think we mean the whole population of country acting in unison.

So there are dynamics within Russia.

The same when we say “US”. Looking at it as very dynamic realities is helping me understand that i can’t predict what will happen, because there are so many variables.

Same with Ukraine. So many variables.

As far as hidden agendas, i don’t think much is really hidden. Many of the variables are well documented, going back decades.

Some of the the interesting things i have been reading certainly makes it less confusing. Not because i have more certainty of the outcome, but because i can see that i was never going to foresee it precisely because of how complex it is. The confusion is in part just the feeling that i should know.

After talking with my ex in Soche, i was happy to hear the American company she works for is still able to pay her, and is actively trying to relocate staff. That is, there are companies that have vested interests in the war stopping immediately. Lots of American companies are losing their money in this.

Lots of people the world over are starting to see a lot of how this will affect them. What does that variable mean? I don’t know. It’s another variable in a long list.

As images come out of the racist actions of Ukraine border crossings. As it becomes known that it does seem the is a neo-nazi movement in the Ukrainian military.

As people remember that Russian people don’t have anything that they can really do, as it’s clear they don’t have free elections and they are largely unarmed.

There’s the American president with a 28% approval rating. Who said that Putin invaded Russia a few days ago.

Then there’s the whole history of rhe region. Etc.

How much will any particular variable matter?

I finally “broke” and posted on Facebook. Just wanted to get my opinion out there. Sorta regret it, but also not. Who knows what variables make a difference?

That’s why i think reading and looking at the variables, even talking online etc, is useful, if only to add another variable to the mix.

The theories about what will happen can often become far too cemented. As in what “Russia will do if forced into a corner”. There’s at least 3 things which can be thought about and otherwise learnt about and become more calming.

I think that keeping the discussion going is good. It’s not something that’s easily resolve either personally of on rhe macro level. The key is more facts, more intelligent discussion, more cooperation.

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It’s just that lines seem to have been drawn in the sand now. If I try to discuss how the sanctions more or less amounts to a dirty megaton bomb dropped indiscriminately on civilians I’m met with “the sanctions work. You talk about really weird things right now. What are we supposed to do then, if not sanction?”. I’m not fearing a lynch mob just yet but it’s starting to get uncomfortable.

Maybe not with actual people!

I’ve tried not to be “that guy” in real life. I’ve settled into the “there are a lot of factors to consider guy”. :sweat_smile:

Yes, i think the sanctions are a factor that is forcing many to choose a side. I think that it’s a huge topic to unpack.

The needless suffering in it all.

I have worked through a lot of my initial loyalty, and continue to read and watch. The more i see, the calmer i get.

It’s very different of course, being on the other side of the world. However in my friend group, one Ukraine already posted about two days into the war to “unfriend” her if anyone was going to start debating anything and that she doesn’t want to have anything to do with someone who in any way ever again. She has dozens and dozens, if not hundreds of Russian and Ukrainian friends here in Perth.

I actually “unfriended” her immediately on seeing it. Because i knew i would eventually say something, and i also didn’t really see any point in offending her considering the extreme way she had posted it.

All of this is extremely small micro variables. People talking, or not, images, videos being repeated, many obviously false reports, many seemingly factual reports.

Perhaps the very best thing is to switch it all off?

I am personally finding i am less frustrated the more information i have. I am feeling otherwise better, with less loyalty and more curiosity.

I

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I for one, see no issue in talking it through here. I know our agreement to be actualism focused, but in a very real way, this is a big part of actualism. Identity, politics, friendship, the intelligent discussion of as many facts as are necessary to feel good.

I mean, in the most micro way, the calmer we become, with intelligence, it’s hard to say what effect that has on others. I don’t think my Facebook post was a great example of calm, but it did show me that i don’t want to do it again. :sweat_smile:

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I think one thing that might work really well is targeted assassination.

This is not my original idea but… it’s true sanctions hurt mostly civilians that have nothing to do with it. If one were to attack Russia the country it would be the same. If one were to shoot down or try cripple Russian planes it would likely lead to more intense conflict where mostly civilians and soldiers would die. And the soldiers may not have wanted to do anything with invading per se either.

So what if instead of all that we (humans) used all our satellite and advanced tracking and simply took out the one person, or multiple peoples at the top, that actually made the decisions? A super precise strike.

I think the main reason this doesn’t work is if one head of state were to do this to another head of state, they recognize they’d be opening the door for the exact same thing to happen to them. It’d be opening fire on your direct peer. And heads of state don’t want to actually risk their own lives. So they never will. And threaten mutually assured destruction with nuclear bombs - that again would kill essentially everyone but them (I’m guessing they have evacuation contingencies in case of oncoming nukes)…

But how effective a deterrent would that be? Knowing if you order an invasion you’ll likely get killed in the next few days…

Disclaimer if any head of state or their intelligence agencies are reading this, I have no plans to personally undertake any of this :smile:

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I think that would open a whole other can of worms, @claudiu :slight_smile: Leaving a power vacuum has never ended well, at least AFAIK.

Anyway, I feel like I’m going slightly loopy here. I don’t like my own country’s posturing about NATO, or sending weapons. Everyone still thinks that Putin is bluffing, and that he was woefully unprepared in Ukraine (I don’t think he was… I think he underestimated how much the US/EU would sideline the fight, and how bad the roads would be). The current NATO/EU posturing about how bad he is is going to come home to roost soon enough - never, ever underestimate.

I went ahead and ordered some currency, took out some money (I have some stashed) and ordered a re-bookable one way ticket to another EU country. None of this has to be used right now, but I’m keeping it in store in case shit hits the fan. Everyone around me thinks I’ve gone raving mad. Maybe I have. But the way things are going right now… eh. If this ends up being me going loopy from covid and uncertainty, then the joke is on me.

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