I’ve been using caring for whatever prospective partner to get over this lately
Desire has an aggressive aspect to it, it wants to consume without consideration for the other. Using the instinct to care for them + intelligence, I can see this [desire] lends itself to uncaring behavior toward them
With that in mind, my priorities have rearranged. Sure I still want to be with someone, but what’s the point of being with someone if I can’t treat them as well as I’d like to? So freedom is the first goal
This sounds good but the only thing I’d watch out for is not use caring as a way to ultimately get what I want…as-in it will be a trickery of sorts if I want to appear like a caring person just to impress and show that I’m a good person…I know this well because I’ve employed this trickery ocassionally in my previous relationships😄
There is like a shortcut to the quality of stillness of actuality…when just sitting n listening to the sounds around, there is a quality of “deathness” or “stuntedness” to the sounds…I can’t connect to it always, but once it does, it reminds me how that stillness is like the ultimate thing…the beginning n end of everything…as if everything originates from there and goes back in there
Richard gave a clue about accessing this via sounds too :
Richard : There is a vast stillness here … if you were to listen intently to the jingle of the nickels it may become apparent.
Thanks for the reminder about listening to sounds. I used to do this per K which he called the immensity but I never thought of sounds connecting one to the stillness. I don’t recall Richard talking about that. I am going to start listening.
Actually this whole stillness business is something that hasn’t fully clicked. Richard writes things like the stillness is the universe at its genesis, that this stillness is the life giving foundation of all that is apparent. It’s cool cos I was reading Richard’s journal earlier today and I noticed that a lot of what is spoken about actuality clicks but the stuff written about stillness has a bit of a question mark over it still.
I did actually go over and jingle some change What I can see, somewhat intellectually is that this stillness is like this field that all phenomena exist within. That everything that happens, happens within this stillness, the sounds arise out of and disappear into this stillness, the stillness itself is always there. This stillness is not like ‘nothingness’ because it is actual, palpable, as in the fundamental quality of this universe is this stillness.
Yeah…so in the real world, after the original actual sound, there is a “noise” added on top of it because of the feeling being’s hijack of the process…but in the actual world, sounds lack this “noise” and there is only that actual sound…this additional “noise” on top of the actual sound feels like an echo of sort…So in the actual world, the actual sound appears “stunted” as there is no additional noise/ echo added on top of it
A rough example is striking the clapper of one of those large brass temple bells - if you strike and leave the clapper, it will echo but if you strike and don’t let the clapper move, the bell doesn’t echo much and you just hear one strike of the bell without the echo…thats the kind of difference in stillness between sounds in reality vs actuality
That’s super fascinating @Shashank thanks. I can definitely relate to what you say about this echo, I just never pinpointed it like that. There is indeed a difference like you say, In PCE there is a cleanness to what is experienced by the senses. Whereas in the real world it’s like there is this scrambled signal/interference which obscures this clarity and so this stillness is never experienced.
Is this ‘echo’ ‘my’ automatic affective response to the sense data? As in it is ‘me’ hearing through ‘my’ ears, which means that there is somewhat a secondary layer to all that is experienced, that layer is ‘me’ being aware of sounds/sights etc
This is really a fun one to go down! In actuality there is an immaculateness to that which is experienced sensately, due to this stundedness. Like Richard writes things are apperceived as being naught but what they are - there is an immaculateness to this, like the raindrop example.
Whereas ‘I’ scramble it all somehow and the result is that ‘I’ never experience this original immaculateness. Wow it’s all coming together now.
Its eerie how I’m going through a nearly identical situation as @henryyyyyyyyyy has written recently and I was about to post there, but came here hehe
Basically I started having a great chat with a girl and there is a possibility of meeting her very soon…I was a bit confused what way to go about this time having already seen all that comes with love…especially when she mentioned - quite understandably - this :
I was trying to figure out if I can do something better this time around and went digging up AFT for a while…Found a few things :
One of the approaches could be this :
MARTIN**:** What would you recommend saying in these situations, as the usual reasons like ‘I don’t have romantic feelings for you’ are somewhat disingenuous / insincere as I am not looking for romantic feelings with anyone! Thanks.
RICHARD: You could, of course, try telling them just what it is you are looking for (in explicit detail).
The other could be something like Peter’s dare :
I briefly told her what I was into and said, ‘I want to be able to live with a woman in peace and harmony. I realise that I have been equally responsible for the failures in the past, and I recognise that I will have to clean myself up to do this. But I’m willing to give it one hundred percent. Do you want to give it a try with me?’ When I look back it was quite audacious, but it proved an effective line to get her interested. She explained later that she had previously come to the resolution that she was not going to try and change the other, or resort to blame in any future relationship – so my proposition was very tempting. But it was the ‘one hundred percent’ bit that really got her!
So together we entered into a simple pact or agreement. We established that the sole reason for being together was to live in perfect peace, harmony and equity and that we would each investigate and eliminate all that was in the way of that being possible. This was to not to be an aimless, listless liaison but, from the very start, a purposeful, challenging companionship …”
The third alternative could be somewhat like how Srinath and Craig are…more of a unilateral approach…but this has some tricky situations such as remaining honest or sincere as we are dealing with a living breathing fellow human with feelings and expectations than a robot with ChatGPT installed hehe
For now, I’m going to assess the situation and then decide whats the best way to go about it…will avoid sharing all hardcore actualism details in the initial meets and keep in mind this always…Its simple and easy to remember :
Richard : Put simplistically (for maximum effect): the way to bring about global peace and harmony, in our lifetimes, is by having fun.
(This last one from Richard makes even more sense as I read about 2 people who died - one an Indian actress who was of my age(41) and another one an Australian guy who ate a gecko as a dare - both of them suffered quite a bit in hospitals in their last days…damn)
It’s better I Journal a bit about some latest developments…
So I met up this above girl finally over drinks(I’m pretty much a teetotaller but she spoke a bit about Wines and I thought lets discover what this whole Wine thing is afterall lol) and we immediately got to excellent talks about her work and wines…The vibe was unimaginably excellent and I have to give it to her for this as she started eerily laughing like Vineeto from OFC DVD…this infact made me get attracted even more to her
Next thing, she invited me to her place and there was a whole night of this n that talks about our past and secrets…with a bit of physical intimacy at some point in time…but she was kinda drunk already so I thought let me not think from the other head and lets see how things are when things have sobered down a bit next day
She said she felt way too comfy with me for some reason…something like this she hasn’t done before - inviting a guy home just after an hour of chat…I was wondering if its genuinely some kind of harmless vibey place I’ve reached that she felt so safe to invite a guy…I think I could be partially there but in all honesty, only at the place of naivete and PCE, I have experienced genuine harmlessness
She spoke about her version of God and religeon and I couldn’t agree on anything at all…On the other hand, I tried to tell her a bit about Actualism, but she was kinda blank and couldn’t get anything…so I stopped…From my past experience, going too hardcore about details of Actualism is very counterproductive…Its for some day later if that happens
The next day I was half zomblie like due to lack of sleep…I could notice something pretty groggy and she mentioned its not feeling like the same interaction as yesterday…we had some dinner and then she even packed some home for me…and I couldn’t help but feel…wow what amazing wifey material or is that a goodbye gift
Today I’ve recovered much energy from sleep and right now I can see the bubbling of the familiar instinctually backed affectionate feelings of love…but I know well from past experience there won’t be any other outcome than what has happened before…the crap will come sooner or later with love
Hands in the pocket for now and let things settle a bit more without getting distant, cold aloof or keep her away or anything…but at the same time knowing well from what love will bring eventually, I can’t help but think and find a solution to this…Is it the time to become truly remarkable as that Shashank the identity and make that happy sacrifice(the kind that @Kub933 made a distinction from the moralistic sacrifice) ? Lets see…there are 2 sides…I’m also not sure what she wants yet…
I remember talking with Geoffrey on the zoom chat and he suggested something to Sonya that always stuck with me. We were talking about women being bothered by men when late at night waiting for a taxi etc
He suggested that when these situations happen to simply act in the best way you can (as you would anyways) and then when in the taxi on the way home perhaps start looking at the surge of fear that welled up or whatever else was going on inside.
Whereas the tendency before would be to, whilst still in the potentially dangerous situation, to be thinking ‘what should I do as an actualist’.
I think the same could be applied to love, relationships etc. As in if you are to stand back and try to act like a perfect actualist this will simply keep you stuck not moving anywhere. Perhaps a more genuine way to proceed, if you do find yourself wanting a relationship and liking a person is to just go with it. And the love et al will come up, and various things will come up, then you can actually explore and potentially eradicate these things but not as a result of standing back, rather by full involvement.
“[…] and right now I can see the bubbling of the familiar instinctually backed affectionate feelings of love …”
This is dissociating , it makes it sound like this external thing called “love” is lurking and going to spring up on you and nothing you can do about it. Whereas of course it is ‘you’ that is the love. The love doesn’t ‘arise’ - rather you are reacting to the situation via being love. Without acknowledging this you’ll never be able to get to the point where you can choose something else !
I would say it’s that you want intimacy. The way to want it normally is via loving feelings. To avoid loving feelings is therefore to avoid intimacy.
There is a way to be intimate via naive / felicitous feelings. But you do it by wanting to be intimate and allowing yourself to be and ramping it up — and seeing that love doesn’t deliver it.
Not to say you have to fall in love per se but you have to find the naive intimacy. Maybe if you run the question “how can I be even more intimate?” While simultaneously “why don’t these loving feelings deliver it?”, maybe it will help.
Had a superb call with @henryyyyyyyyyy … what came out is that obsession has been my central missing key…anything intense that I’ve achieved in the past was because of that obsessive drive like learning game programming or becoming an expert meditator etc
The other thing is to just have fun and be blithe…its a win-win…others may find you to be an asshole, but thats their problem
What I can see, somewhat intellectually is that this stillness is like this field that all phenomena exist within. That everything that happens, happens within this stillness, the sounds arise out of and disappear into this stillness, the stillness itself is always there. This stillness is not like ‘nothingness’ because it is actual, palpable, as in the fundamental quality of this universe is this stillness.
could be somewhat like how Srinath and Craig are…more of a unilateral approach…but this has some tricky situations such as remaining honest or sincere as we are dealing with a living breathing fellow human with feelings and expectations than a robot with ChatGPT installed hehe
