A timely reminder:
"RICHARD: I do find it cute that any body sans identity in toto/ the entire affective faculty experientially confirming (i.e., by direct, or immediate, unmediated experiencing and, thus, not via ratiocination and/or intuition) the actuality of the physical world – the world of this body and that body and every body; the world of the mountains and the streams; the world of the trees and the flowers; the world of the clouds in the sky by day and the stars in the firmament by night and so on and so on ad infinitum – is hence declared ‘batshit insane’ by an illusory/ delusory identity (an affective/ psychic entity) who has no physical existence whatsoever.
Ain’t life grand!"
Hi Milito,
Ok, with this in mind, I shall 
Hmm I should qualify then, by ASC I mean an actuality-mimicking ASC, such as the one that Tarin, Trent, Alan, me, Craig, etc., have been in.
Such an actuality-mimicking one doesn’t have these hallmarks you mention of love, sorrow, etc. I speak from experience!
Well yes, that’s what I meant by you thinking you’re newly free 
.
Well it’s an odd thing to say. Why not follow the lead and advice of someone who became free? That’s the whole point of actualism - to become actually free by using the techniques, methods, etc., that have worked for other people to become actually free. It’s an empirically-devised and empirically-validated method. It’s what we all do here, follow in the footsteps of those who succeeded. Enjoying & appreciating is following in their footsteps, because that is what worked for them.
Also rather odd. Tarin & Trent led many many people astray, away from actualism. They certainly bear some culpability in that. Of course it’s ultimately up to anyone to do what they please, but that doesn’t mean actions don’t have consequences.
In any case, it doesn’t change the point that if you aren’t newly free, but are in an actuality-mimicking ASC, nobody on here should be taking any heed of what you’re saying or doing — regardless of whether you share any culpability in that.
Dunking on the way the AFT site looks is somewhat odd. As well as indicating earlier that there is “actualist dogma” that you aren’t following (“I dunno maybe I’m deviating from actualist dogma again.”). Grant tried that also, dismissing actualism as a worldview or narrative vs the factuality that it is.
Also rather odd. In my PCEs I am aware full well that I exist, actually exist, as a flesh and blood body. It is actual existence as opposed to imagined existence. So it is the flesh and blood body that would find it sensible to be highly discerning (or not as the case may be).
Another odd thing. My suggestion to “wait it out” is to wait for further information to become available before making the conclusion that you are newly free. Here you are implying that to take this prudent course of action is to be perpetuating (via inaction) the violence and atrocities in Gaza. It is a strange connection to make, and indicates a pressuring of the other to accept you as newly free.
Why draw a connection between waiting before concluding that you are free, and the violence and atrocities happening in Gaza, then?
We are!
In that case it narrows it down from 3 possibilities to 2: either you are newly free, or you are very deeply in an actuality-mimicking ASC!
Time will tell, Gaza notwithstanding.
It’s not an apology 
. It’s a pre-emptive explanation that I am not seeking a personal vendetta against you or anything like this.
I’ve never been diagnosed. I wondered about it but it doesn’t seem to really line up.
I do like getting into the details of conversations, though – which I picked up after really delving into the AFT site and seeing how Richard and Peter and Vineeto did it. Highly illuminative!
I think the frequent listing off of stuff you do/have done/are doing/will do, as in a list of accomplishments, is also indicative of an elevated/passionate mood (albeit not being experienced as such) rather than apperceptive consciousness. I say it because you asked me to highlight these things
It reminds me of Alan & Bub more so than Richard, Vineeto, Peter, Geoffrey, Srinath.
That sounds great, and not manic, but whence the writing in a “hyper excited fashion” then if this stillness is the basis of your consciousness now?
While taking no responsibility at all with what you’re communicating if you’re mistaken about your being actually free?
Well it’s not surprising that if the first joke fell flat, this follow-up also did haha.
Again don’t really see the joke. You seem to be poking fun of me not understanding what you mean by saying you don’t care. Keep in mind I have experienced actual caring in PCEs before, I know experientially the topics being discussed here.
This made me think of the time I was coming out of my meditation-induced ASC. While in the midst of it I would remark upon many things that “oh those things should be causing me anxitety, but they don’t”. After having worked my way out of it, I saw in hindsight that they were causing me anxiety, but the feeling of it was being diverted away from consciousness due to the ASC 
.
In any case this is not dispositive, if you were indeed newly free then that seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to be experiencing and reporting haha.
Cheers sir,
Claudiu
This is a funny one because this is something I always wanted to have more of on the forum, the actually free guys describing their experiences and engaging in the threads. Because of the lack of this kind of interaction I always thought (planned ) that if I was to be free I would be interacting in the specific way that @milito.paz is right now.
Of course what this body will do is not up to ‘me’ but I do wonder to what extent various idiosyncratic qualities will remain after self-immolation, such as wanting to detail each and every bit about the condition.
I know that every time I have had a PCE or made any worthy discoveries there is this wanting to share and detail the thing. Would actually free Kuba continue exactly in this way? I don’t see why not, nothing in the PCE shows otherwise.
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This thread is helping me to be aware of keeping an open mind which I have been lacking of in the past.
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’
I was clearer and mentioned more than just those two things when you later described one of your ASCs.
Well yes. What is happening here is that there is the thought here that I am free and Claudiu (and perhaps others) doubt this. So be it.
My response isn’t odd; it’s based on my understanding of the diverse nature of individual experiences and paths to freedom on what is a very wide (and wondrous) path. Instead of discouraging learning from others, I merely emphasise the uniqueness of each person’s journey (how enjoying and appreciating pans out for them) What is wrong with that? This perspective underscores the value of individuality. Jeez, Vineeto can cry when a cop writes her a ticket and Richard can chase someone who stole something from his shopping trolley (oooh how potentially dangerous! he could’ve got stabbed) but I can’t express this?
In my experience, enjoying and appreciating isn’t following in their footsteps it is treading your own path.
If I’m not free, it’s fair for each person to decide how to interpret what I say. Blaming me for potential negative influences overlooks individual responsibility. However, disregarding my words solely due to doubts about my freedom overlooks their potential value. It’s crucial to assess the substance of what I say rather than focusing solely on my state of freedom.
I like the look of the site. I’ve always liked text based sites. Oh and there does seem to be a dogmatic line amongst those who identify/say they are practising actualism. I find this undeniable. But deeming actualism a dogma? I fully endorse every word they write on that site.
You just don’t get it. When you are in the PCEs and aware that you exist as a flesh and blood body (I was referring to ‘self’ that goes into abeyance) do you Step 1. find it sensible to do something then Step 2. do it? What are the mechanics of that process? Because if that is what happens maybe we should be questioning the validity of your PCE claims. For me it was always (and is permanently now) a spontaneous and continuous flow of action and thought.
This all seems to be some big intellectual exercise when I thought this place is all about exchanging notes about experience.
No. If anything your response can be said to be odd. But I’m coming to expect such responses now. What do you think I am doing? Running around preaching? I am living my life. Working, cooking, childrearing, reading, etc. I am not making any conclusions. I am sharing what I experience and what I think. Take it or leave it. You are making the extremely strange connection, suggesting that I am taking your suggestion to wait as perpetuating violence in Gaza when what I meant was what is unsafe about what I am doing? If you want to talk about danger look at Gaza. That is what I meant.
I didn’t you misunderstood me.
That is your opinion.
I didn’t think it was. I was referring to my telling you previously not to apologise as indicating that I am on a roll not-taking-things-personally wise.
They aren’t accomplishments they are shares of things I would have liked those guys you mentioned to have shared when I was still a feeling-being (yes I know you think I still am one). I never used to write. And I am starting to consider maybe just waiting for people to ask me stuff if they are interested instead of spontaneously sharing. Because this doesn’t seem to be going anywhere. It is at best good mental gymnastics for me.
That was before. The stillness is progressively greater. It’s the mental swirl I mentioned in another post that led to the ‘hyper excited fashion’. Like the body was trying to keep up with the amount of stuff my mind was trying to release into my post.
"RESPONDENT: Does responsibility and seriousness come with being carefree?
RICHARD: no, the utter reliability of being always happy and harmless replaces the onerous burden of being responsible … and actuality’s blithe sincerity dispenses with the gloomy seriousness that epitomises adulthood.
It is funny – in a peculiar way – for I often gain the impression when I speak to others, that I am spoiling their game-plan. It seems as if they wish to search forever … they consider arriving to be boring. How can unconditional peace and happiness, twenty-four-hours-a-day, possibly be boring? Is a carefree life all that difficult to comprehend? Why persist in a sick game … and defend one’s right to do so? Why insist on suffering when blitheness is freely available here and now? Is a life of perennial gaiety something to be scorned? I have even had people say, accusingly, that I could not possibly be happy when there is so much suffering going on in the world. The logic of this defies credibility: Am I to wait until everybody else is happy before I am? If I was to wait, I would be waiting forever … for under this twisted rationale, no one would dare to be the first to be happy. Their peculiar reasoning allows only for a mass happiness to occur globally; overnight success, as it were. Someone has to be intrepid enough to be first, to show what is possible to a benighted humanity."
Well let’s just say I’m starting to pick up on your sense of humour (or lack thereof). Noted.
I just thought that Paul might like to know that.
Good morning/evening/night
Milito
I am literally doing it in memory of ‘me’ who I am full of appreciation for, for having made the ultimate sacrifice. And ‘I’ was ‘humanity’ and ‘humanity’ was ‘me’. So it is for you and anyone who finds benefit in it.
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Ah nice so just like ‘my’ plan! 
This whole thing though it reminds me of the exchange between Srinath and @claudiu in the global warming thread (if I remember correctly) and I wonder if these kinds of dynamics which have played out today are what Srinath was getting at - with regards to the issues of the forum.
@claudiu The way it looks to me, and I am prepared to be completely wrong about this, but it is as if you have taken on some role of being the actualism protector. Yet the ‘actualism’ that you are protecting does have a whiff of dogma about it. I certainly don’t feel the need to be protected by you from being ‘led astray’ as I am capable of living my own life even if I hit a dead end.
I can see why this kind of rigid stance may have been needed back in the day, to distinguish something so new from all the misinformation about, but I think at this point this kind of approach is hurting things, it’s preventing fruitful interaction.
Reading your responses it is as if you have turned logic and reasoning into an absolute and then you go on to call it being sensible. But logic and reason divorced from direct experience is just as susceptible to being distorted by emotion, to becoming a belief.
On top of all that you then carry the full backing of the AFT to support your logical arguments, and you wield them like a sword.
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Wondering what would happen if @milito.paz comes out tomorrow to say it was all a big lie. Sure I would feel a fool etc.
Yet these past few days I have been feeling good more than usual, I have been living life less seriously and more sincerely. I have been interacting with others with ease and a significant lack of conflict/resentment. Life has been easier than ever.
I was working one of my hen party gigs over the weekend and it was probably the toughest crowd that I ever had. The bride at the end pulled me to the side and said that she didn’t even want me there but it was part of the accommodation package. She handed me a big tip and specifically mentioned how impressed she was that I was so nice even though she knew they were a difficult group.
When I went training the next morning (sparring day) I found myself effortlessly engaged in all sorts of fun conversations with my training partners.
When I came home Sonya had 2 of her friends staying over the weekend, again the same flavour of effortless fun and relative lack of conflict/awkwardness, I haven’t been able to consistently be like this before, this is all new.
Is this the ‘leading astray’ that I am being protected from? 
Maybe it will all turn out to be some mania soon, but so far it simply makes sense to feel good, to be sincere, to enjoy life.
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The dynamic I see is that someone is mistaken about them being free, and now people are rushing to ‘their’ defense and shooting the messenger instead .
You’re also leaving out the benefit to be had by such a person finding out sooner rather than later what the situation is.
A few more things stand out. I noticed a tone shift as the convo progressed, from warm and friendly at first to markedly less so later. Also I have had many a confrontational conversation with actually free people (Srinath, Craig, Vineeto, and Geoffrey) as well as many a feeling-being. The former is remarkable for a distinct lack of psychic currents even as the interaction gets to what would otherwise be heated, even with strident words from their part. The convo going on here I experience as getting more ‘heated’ and the palpable lack of psychic currents is not evident. The words are not even particularly strident but it seems like trimmed-down responses where some displeased psychic currents are underlying it.
Personally, I am satisfied for now as to what the situation is. Others can disagree of course! And I can always be wrong, which would be much preferred in this case!
I’ll just note that the very old horses of calling it dogma, worldview, narrative, Grant pulled out the old “cult” one still, are very well and truly beaten dead by now. I find the mention of the AFT pretty strange also as I didn’t even quote anything from it, and the critique that I’m being “logical” but it’s “divorced from direct experience” to be strange as well given how I’ve relied on my direct experience several times in the convo so far.
As to your last post, what’s happened has been motivational for me too. It was a sincere realization that anything but freedom would be second-best. There’s no reason for any of that to be diminished even if Milito turns out to have been mistaken here. It remains sensible to feel good, be sincere, and enjoy life!
Lastly I find someone saying I have a lack of sense of humor to be so far off the mark as to be funny in and of itself.
Cheers to all,
Claudiu
Yeah perhaps, I don’t have complete confidence either way here so I am open to this being the case.
Another case for actual freedom hey? It’s so damn hard to see things clearly with emotions on board.
I find it really odd to be arguing that we aren’t following in Richard & Vineeto & Srinath & Geoffrey’s footsteps. But maybe it’s a matter of how one chooses to express things.
“follow in someone’s footsteps”: to do the same things that another person has done before
Follow in someone's footsteps Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster.
So, Richard became free, we follow in his footsteps by becoming free. Vineeto, Srinath, etc… If you became free we should follow in your footsteps to also become free. If not then you are not free, it is something pernicious, and we should not follow in your footsteps.
This really is rather simple guys!
Sure. But it is easier and simpler to follow a reliable source. Tarin & Trent quoted AFT a lot and must have said some stuff that’s partially correct in some way. But it was easier just to discard it all.
I find it strange calling it an “intellectual exercise” when you’re quoting me talking about my PCEs!! Lol. Must be something in the air today.
As Richard puts it, there are three “I”'s - actual, affective, cognitive. When I was saying it behooves you to be highly discerning, obviously I’m directing it at whichever you you are - which would be the actual one if you are free or in a PCE. So that is the “you” that would be following the recommendation to be highly discerning.
It’s silly to say you don’t detect any affective/cognitive ‘self’ for my comment to be directed at, when if free there would be the actual you there for it to be directed to!
Not sure where the disconnect here is really. Yes in a PCE the doing of the things happens simultaneously with the decision to do them, there’s no separation there. But there’s still an existing actual me that is capable of consideration and reflection etc.
Ah okay I just didn’t think to read it that way, cause what is “safe” in this context was very obvious to me - being led astray from actuality by a likely well-meaning but ultimately misguided person (such as Tarin & Trent did to many). This can consume valuable years of someone’s life. Yes it is not physically dangerous as is being bombed in Gaza, but I don’t think the danger here should be downplayed.
Luckily, unlike a bomb which follows the laws of physics and embeds its shrapnel into someone’s cranium whether they like it or not, with words and choices it’s ultimately up to each person whether to follow or not
Yeah, the big “if” there is “the utter reliability of being always happy and harmless”. If you are mistaken about being free, that will be absent.
Anyways I think it’s mincing words a bit (and I find it funny that you’re the one quoting the AFT at me while you & Kuba are saying I’m the dogmatic AFT-wielding one haha), I just meant that obviously if you are not free and you are saying you are, you will be misinforming people, and this will have negative consequences, more so than if you weren’t. I don’t think this is a difficult concept to grasp.
I know one of the things that struck home to me, when I realized in Australia that I had been led astray by Trent & Tarin, is that I was similarly leading others astray by what I was writing about actualism! It seems really strange for this not to be something to take into account at all. I was not even actually free then, not even really an actualist (as I didn’t really know what that was due to confusion), yet I was able to recognize this. It’s not some great act of actual caring required to see the point here.
Haha, well it just reveals that you really don’t know me. I love a good joke, but it has to actually be good. I just am not seeing what the set-up and punchline are here, that would combine with the context and situation, such as to lead one to become amused by the juxtaposition thereof.
If someone explains it to me it may become clearer, albeit certainly not funnier at that point lol.
Cheers,
Claudiu
I do wonder whether we are past the point where either Enlightenment or Actuality mimicking ASC’s are a danger.
When Richard became enlightened there was no precedent, the first wave who followed in his footsteps were well aware of the danger.
Then you had that whole Dharma Overground debacle, again there was no precedent for the weird blend of Vipassana and Actualism that they engaged in.
Then there was the whole thing with Craig, this one seems a bit more up in the air still but it is still enough to caution.
Since then any sincere actualists, especially the guys who have been around for a while are well aware of the dangers of both Enlightenment as well as any other weird dissociative states.
Personally I don’t see that danger anymore for myself, that radar is set for any weirdness.
Perhaps, but don’t forget this part too 
So here’s a genuine, inquisitive analysis @milito.paz
Basically you report the shift as having happened on March 16th. That is when there was a great “slowing down” as similar to how Geoffrey reported it (“I saw the vortex that is ‘me’ drastically slow down, as it could not move in the overarching stillness, and evaporate, as it had no substance but movement. / Then there was nothing left. And nothing missing.” Geoffrey - Report of Becoming Free)
But then you report the “MASSIVE rush of vibes” on March 25th. So clearly from 16th-25th you weren’t actually free.
However you report as if after the 25th was essentially the same experience as before the 25th: “Since Monday I am still yet to feel any vibes [i.e. similar to before “lack of vibes”] AND the rate of the increase in enjoyment and appreciation is increasing exponentially.”
Meaning a difference in degree only, not in kind – the enjoyment and appreciation is increasing even more than before, while the lack of vibes is the same.
And from the 27th when you reported you “might be on the brink of freedom, if not already there” (i.e. you weren’t really sure), until today, there has been no additional moment of something happening or a shift.
The question is simply: as from the 16th-25th you experienced no vibes and thought you were free, but weren’t (due to massive vibe rush on the 25th), how do you know that now, when you’re experiencing no vibes and think you’re free, it isn’t the same as from the 16th-25th?
Comparing notes with others’ reports they all seemed far more certain that what had happened had happened.
It seems entirely possible that you are in the same state (be it ASC or EE etc) now as you were from the 16th-25th, one can only speculate to the nature of it, but at a first glance a state where affect is being diverted away from conscious attention. It seems to be distinct from an EE as you wrote “But there has been no fear of losing control as my months long almost constant PCE/excellence experience back in 2016. Now it’s like, BRING IT ON!” which makes the actuality-mimicking ASC hypothesis more plausible.
Basically an altered state, not an EE or a PCE, where the underlying feeling-being still exists, who poked ‘his’ head out of it on the 25th briefly before being shunted back into it perhaps more vociferously than before.
What’re your thoughts on ^?
Cheers,
Claudiu
If it turns out this is an actuality-mimicking ASC that Milito is experiencing, then the answer will certainly be clear that it still is .
Weirdness radar is good. I don’t think the power of psychic currents and groupthink mentality ought to be underestimated. I don’t really know if it is a danger. Also it’s silly to try to be a ‘nanny’ and protect other people from themselves. Not seeking to do that here. I genuinely don’t experience myself as being hypervigilant or overly defensive or whatnot here, but perhaps it comes across this way as I do have a history of that. I don’t have a 100% definitive assessment here.
Perhaps I’ll put it this way: my radar is detecting weirdness so I’m voicing that here. If yours was detecting weirdness would you be saying something? And how would you respond to people saying to you but is there really a danger, are these the problematic forum dynamics the recently-free person voiced before distancing himself from the forum meanwhile trying to get people to distance themselves from Richard, are you not taking on a role of ‘protector’, you are wielding the AFT site like a sword, this is preventing fruitful forum interaction, etc? It would all be rather besides the point, wouldn’t it be, of: but there is some weirdness here! Why can’t we talk about it? And indeed what better place to talk about it than the claimant’s journal, where journals are set up for people to report their experiences and discuss them with other forum-goers?
Cheers,
Claudiu
Yes I would which is specifically why I wrote post Milito’s Journal - #124 by Kub933.
I guess the difference is that fruitful discussion for you in this case means doing exactly what you have been doing, discussing why in your opinion @milito.paz is not free, based on the weirdness you have noticed.
For me the fruitful discussion came in the form of furthering my own goal of becoming free via the interaction with @milito.paz, without such a heavy focus on falsifying the claims.
And the reason I am happy to put this falsifying to one side for now is because by now I have read Actually free people write all sorts of stuff that is weird to me :
There is a bit on the AFT where Richard responds to someone by suggesting that what he is doing, in Australia is called ‘being a bit of a wanker’.
There is Geoffrey asking Leila if she is a child, when I read that post now I still detect (imagine) an angry Geoffrey telling her off, I still feel that psychic jab that he is apparently delivering.
There is the bit where Srinath did not answer in the affirmative that he does not buy into the Big Bang theory.
As @milito.paz mentioned there is the situation where Vineeto cries to get out of trouble with police.
There is Peters writing upon becoming free where he is talking about a compulsion to enable peace on earth.
So let’s just say I am happy with a bit of unorthodox behaviour until some kind of definitive picture starts to form. For example when I read Craigs writing mentioning god in one way or another, that was a big red light flashing.
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I think it comes down to, in my opinion, a lack of appreciation for just how relevant it is whether the other person really is free or not.
When I was in Australia with others for the purpose of becoming free, Vineeto pointed out how we should use her & Richard as goal-posts of a sort, as to be the thing we are aiming for, to help direct us towards actuality.
I don’t think I can overemphasize enough just how pernicious it is to be interacting with someone who you think is free, but isn’t. You will implicitly be taking cues, hints, messages from them, subtly changing what you do, to emulate how they are, to further your own goal of being free.
And this is the point: if they aren’t, then those hints will simply not be leading you to the direction you want to go into. Necessarily so, by the very fact of the matter.
Now it is possible all the weirdness is due to Milito adjusting to being newly free. I was being sincere when I said it wasn’t 100%. Personally I was getting swept up in the excitement and momentum, which even caused me to think I may have gone out from control (which got a lot of emoji likes in my journal), when I obviously hadn’t (Claudiu's Journal - #131 by claudiu). So, the bad influence had already had its effect on me haha (in misjudging myself).
(Of course Milito is not ultimately responsible for what I did etc yada yada we are all our own person, I could’ve done the same if he is genuinely free etc, let’s not abuse that horse’s poor corpse along with the others).
Anyway in short I find the minimization of this topic strange, and urge people to keep in mind what I’ve written in this post here.
Cheers,
Claudiu
Hey guys!
I’m taking at least some time off the forum. Not sure if I’ll be back. I want to express my appreciation for everyone’s contributions in particular Claudiu’s (for the most part) incisive contributions. They’ve been invaluable, and have served the purpose that the balance of powers theoretically does in a democracy. It was getting circular towards the end though.
You people reading these reports and the responses of scrutiny are the voters here. You evaluate what is being presented by each poster, make informed appraisals, and contribute to the ongoing dialogue.
Your engagement has fostered accountability and integrity within this community, creating a dynamic comparing of notes. Feel free to heed or disregard my parting advice:
Try not to make assumptions
Notice and take into account that your analyses as feeling beings is tainted by… feelings
Ask yourself how this might impact your conclusions regarding reports such as mine.
Best regards,
Milito
You can email me at el.pacificador456@gmail.com
“ The already always existing peace-on-earth is just here right now in this actual world of the senses.
All you have to do is:
Step Out Of The Real World Into This Actual World And Leave ‘Yourself’ Behind Where ‘You’ Belong.
••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••
This Moment Of Being Alive
The past, although it was actual when it was happening, is not actual now; the future, although it will be actual when it happens, is not actual now; only this moment is ever actual.
As you are only alive at this moment in time ask yourself each moment again:
How Am I Experiencing This Moment Of Being Alive?”
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Hey Milito, thanks . I hope it’s not the last time you write here, but it’s up to you. Just want to say I’ve really enjoyed reading your descriptions of what’s happening for you. Actual freedom or not, it’s really interesting in its own right, and I like the way you express it.
But what’s this “balance of power” shit?? The only power anyone has here is the power that anyone vests in anyone else. See that clearly and the solution is obvious. Then we can be fellow human beings again.
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