Kub933's Journal

[JohnE]

@Kub933

Personally it took me about 6 months from taking up actualism to having my first PCE. Indeed it can be tricky because a PCE is not something that ‘I’ can make happen through control or forcing, a PCE is something that happens of it’s own accord and ‘I’ only allow it.
The great thing is that spending more and more time enjoying and appreciating life is in itself the goal and the reward. But at the same time the more ‘I’ feel good → great → excellent → the higher the chances of a PCE happening.

This is my experience aswell. It’s imposible to force or push myself into that state of enjoying, it seems to happen at random.

@Kub933

Each time this flavour is re-discovered there is the same freshness and delight, even though it is familiar.

Yes, it’s a welcome home if I ever had one.

@Kub933

May I ask what is the motivating factor behind your involvement with actualism? You mentioned on the forum that you have had numerous PCEs, is it to do with those?

I had to stop and think about this one since I haven’t actually considered it before. I don’t feel “loyal” to any tradition but instead look for what works and actualism seems to work. I’ve had PCEs most of my life with long periods not having them, usually when life was tough. That together with me always seeing feelings as something that has controlled me even though I enjoyed many of them, especially when I was younger and seeing how this creates a world full with conflict. Then Actualism makes sense, if that makes sense?

[Kub933]

So looking at what is preventing me from allowing my self-immolation I remember something that Srinath wrote on the simple actualism page :

Another requirement is be sufficiently weary of the real world and to have a real hunger for living the PCE, living in dazzling actuality. Like an addict repeatedly saying “one last time”, it may take a while before you find your own ‘rock bottom’ moment, before you’ve had enough of the intoxicating mess that is the real world, that is ‘you’ and make a decision to be done with the whole sorry lot.

Indeed I find there is something addictive and intoxicating about ‘being’, those feelings which ‘I’ am are like a drug. In the past I had many reasons for why apparently it was dangerous to proceed towards actual freedom, but one by one these were resolved.

It seems all along the real reason was that ‘I’ was not done with ‘being’ yet. As I write this I can very much locate ‘myself’ as an affective presence and those feelings which ‘I’ am - there is something gratifying in them but in a ‘dirty’ way, addiction is the only way I can describe such a thing.

It makes me think of love for example, in that most people know deep down that love cannot deliver the goods, they are well aware of the ugly side of love, and yet they present it as a good thing - that “it’s not real love if I don’t suffer for it”, as if they desire to be hurt.

Again it is an addiction to something which is clearly ‘dirty’ and yet something keeps one going for more. And to an addict it does not matter how many reasons are presented for why this thing is harmful to all concerned, they will keep going for more.

And so I notice the same thing about ‘being’, that I don’t have any possible reason to justify ‘being’ and yet ‘I’ am addicted to it. ‘I’ am addicted to ‘being’ ‘my’ feelings. That ‘dirtiness’ is somehow gratifying to the addict.

And as much as ‘I’ can have a taste of the clean and pure perfection of actuality somehow ‘I’ still want another hit of that intoxicating mess of ‘being’ instead, and I don’t really have any other reason for it anymore other than addiction.

[Kub933]

Going back to the quote of Richard’s that I posted yesterday :

• [Richard]: ‘As long as there is a craving or need for a certain (hedonic) pleasure then untold bucket-loads of (anhedonic) pleasure will be being kept at bay.
• [Respondent]: ‘Makes sense.’

This does indeed make sense, currently there is the addiction to the hedonic gratification of ‘being’ and I know from the experiences that I have had that there is indeed “bucketfuls of (anhedonic) pleasure and more” in the actual world.

But it is that addiction to the ‘dirty’ hedonic gratification of ‘being’ that is chosen instead, it is intoxicating in it’s ‘dirtyness’, whereas the clean and pure (anhedonic) pleasure that exists in the actual world is not attractive in comparison. Again this is somewhat going around in circles, confirming that ‘I’ am indeed addicted to ‘being’.
The hedonic gratification is chosen as it maintains ‘me’ as a ‘being’, the anhedonic pleasure is not attractive as it exists where ‘I’ do not.

[Andrew]

I gave up smoking before my holiday to Sydney in early July.

I went on the patches and gum. Chewed my last piece of 2 mg gum before work this morning. 12 hours ago.

Nicotine, I have read, is way more addictive than even heroin. Seem a bit suss, but point made.

What’s more, I love smoking. I like most things about it.

So, even the smallest physical craving, which I can feel even now, and the smallest mental desire, which I can feel now, could easily give rise to me going and buying tobacco.

There’s no actual pain involved in either impulse. A deep breath, some whiskey maybe, haha. All good.

It seems to be impossible from where I am to consider self-immolation. However, it seemed impossible 2 months back that I would ever give up smoking.

So we shall see. Haha

[Kub933]

Richard: I only ask because if the addiction to being ‘me’ is the more powerful addiction then successful escape is the last thing ‘I’ am looking for (and thus ‘I’ will keep on re-treading the known path, the familiar path, the path that does not deliver the goods).

Indeed this is what is currently happening, essentially what I described in the above posts.

Richard: Whereas if the addiction to escaping is the more powerful addiction then successful escape can (and will) happen.

And this is what is certainly not happening, ‘I’ have never been more addicted to escaping than ‘I’ am to ‘being’.

Hmm interesting, I wonder how one goes about developing such an addiction So essentially there is the current addiction to ‘being’ and there is not a greater addiction to the escape from ‘being’ / the cessation of ‘being’.

Now there are times when I experience a glimpse of what eventuates when ‘I’ cease to ‘be’, one happened about 10 minutes ago or so - those bucket loads of anhedonic pleasure are certainly there, and much more.

[Kub933]

To your point Andrew, they do say that it is easier to break a habit by replacing it with a new one. Perhaps it’s not that ‘I’ focus on stopping ‘my’ addiction to ‘being’ but rather ‘I’ develop a much greater addiction to the escape from ‘being’ / cessation of ‘being’.

[Andrew]

I was thinking about your situation. Obviously, I am a fellow feeling being, and as such can comment at the very least on addiction.

I wonder, what if, to explore this territory of “addiction” try to give up tobacco?

Not for any other reason than the emotional aspects of it.

I am something like 6 weeks or more since I was smoking full time.

I love smoking. Even now, I still love smoking. Although, I haven’t smoked.

There is no really unbearable physical addiction. A few deep breaths, and I’m good.

Obviously, not trying to challenge you to stop smoking, just that it is interesting in the parallel.

You are a perceptive fellow. Perhaps the experience will give you that final direction on how to be addicted to being free!

I think there must be something in the almost painful thrill of it all. Like the feeling I get in summer of being “dumped” under the waves at the beach. It’s actually extremely unpleasant. However, it’s always fondly remembered and re-enacted.

Body surfing waves, get dumped. Maybe Europeans don’t have waves that can “dump” them?

Hmm, I really have no idea.

Anyway, that’s just something I relate to at the moment. It’s not pleasant to be giving up something I enjoy. It’s not physical addiction. Very little of it at this stage anyway. It’s that I want it.

But, I am enjoying the type of discomfort that I am feeling at the moment, writing this.

It’s like being at the gym.

Being thrown on the mat (with the pain in one’s wrists)

The salt water up my nose, while the waves twist me and hold me under.

It’s unpleasant, but it has its own addictive quality.

In speculative terms, there is addiction to suffering, and then there is a suffering which leads to freedom which is addictive.

A wrist throw, a choke hold, waves cracking my back, salt up my nose. It’s a freedom that doesn’t have silk cushions and indulgence.

Thoughts for consideration, not advice.

Edit; I’m getting addicted to the unpleasant feeling of breaking an habitual and physical addiction.

So much so, that I am chasing this discomfort by going to the gym with my son (whom I work with).

The addiction to a certain type of discomfort which is leading to freedom.?

[Kub933]

So re-reading some of my correspondence with Vineeto I came across the below :

To succeed, you will have to dare to care, to care so deeply that you dare to do something, to allow something to happen, that has never happened to you before. This aspect of it is an immense daring and hence it needs a deep and abiding caring – and then, in the blink of an eye, you are here, here where you belong.

I have been quite gobsmacked (although no longer fearful) at what the last step entails, that without mincing words it is proceeding towards ‘my’ death. And the square quotes are used so that it makes sense but really it is the end of the entity writing these words, the end of my life. It’s like how on earth would I allow something so radical as the end of my life.

So indeed it will take an immense daring sourced in a deep and abiding caring. But what I see now (and I already dipped into this a while back) is that I have been aiming at the wrong target, not a genuine target.

To cut it short I have been aiming my caring towards other identities, towards ‘humanity’. And of course this can only have the effect of keeping ‘me’ chained to ‘humanity’. ‘I’ cannot sacrifice ‘myself’ for other identities or for ‘humanity’. The target and the beneficiaries of ‘my’ supreme sacrifice are the actually existing flesh and blood bodies.

And just as well because I have always struggled to care of other identites, after-all I know how rotten ‘I’ am and how rotten ‘we’ are, how could I have this deep and abiding caring for such entities?

Then there are times when I glimpse those actually existing flesh and blood bodies, I see that they have nothing at all to do with the identities which have taken residence inside their bodies. And whenever I experience that genuine target - those actually existing flesh and blood bodies - then it is seen that it is indeed worth sacrificing myself for their benefit. Those bodies are actually innocent in all this, and it is ‘me’ and ‘humanity’ that is keeping those bodies in bondage.

[jamesjjoo]

I think I see your point which is so radical that it doesn’t seem right : It is the bodies that need caring about and not the identities within. I still don’t really get it.

[Vineeto]

Vineeto: To succeed, you will have to dare to care, to care so deeply that you dare to do something, to allow something to happen, that has never happened to you before. This aspect of it is an immense daring and hence it needs a deep and abiding caring – and then, in the blink of an eye, you are here, here where you belong. (link)

Kuba: To cut it short I have been aiming my caring towards other identities, towards ‘humanity’. And of course this can only have the effect of keeping ‘me’ chained to ‘humanity’. ‘I’ cannot sacrifice ‘myself’ for other identities or for ‘humanity’. The target and the beneficiaries of ‘my’ supreme sacrifice are the actually existing flesh and blood bodies.
And just as well because I have always struggled to care of other identities, after-all I know how rotten ‘I’ am and how rotten ‘we’ are, how could I have this deep and abiding caring for such entities? (link)

James: I think I see your point which is so radical that it doesn’t seem right : It is the bodies that need caring about and not the identities within. I still don’t really get it. (link)

Hi James,

Well spotted – presently (with exception of a handful) every flesh-and-blood body has an identity controlling and dominating their host-bodies causing misery and mayhem. To actually care means to want their suffering – caused by their identity – come to an end sooner rather than later. To “care as close to an actual caring as an identity can muster” is to want exactly the same, to have their suffering, including your own, come to an end, permanently.

This has, of course, nothing at all to do with putting the other before oneself as per spiritual dogma (link) or the normal feeling-caring of ‘suffering together’ like feeling sympathy and/or compassion. It is a deep caring that propels one into action where you dare to do something, to allow something to happen, that has never happened to you before” – a sacrifice, as Richard calls it –

Richard: … and ‘sacrifice’ means to die as an altruistic offering, a philanthropic contribution, a generous gift, a charitable donation, a magnanimous present; to devote and give over one’s life as a humane gratuity, an open-handed endowment, a munificent bequest, a kind-hearted benefaction. A sacrifice is the relinquishment of something valued or desired, especially one’s life, for the sake of something regarded as more important or worthy … it is the deliberate destruction, abandonment, relinquishment, forfeiture or loss for the sake of something illustrious, brilliant, extraordinary and excellent. It means to forgo, depart from, leave, quit, vacate, discontinue, stop, cease or immolate so that one’s guerdon is to be able to be unrepressed, unconstrained, unselfconscious, spontaneous, free and easy, relaxed, informal, open, candid, outspoken, uninhibited, unrestrained, unrestricted, uncontrolled, uncurbed, unchecked, unbridled … none of which is implied with ‘surrender’. (Richard, List B, Gary, 23 Nov 1999)

Cheers Vineeto

[Kub933]

Hi James,

@jamesjjoo

I think I see your point which is so radical that it doesn’t seem right : It is the bodies that need caring about and not the identities within. I still don’t really get it.

Indeed it is radical, so much so that I did not see this for a very long time and I was busy trying to save other identities. Makes sense why ‘I’ took on the roles of the high achiever, the messiah, the saviour etc

I saw this the other day when Sonya was about to come home from work, there was a brief glimpse of the fact that there is in fact a flesh and blood body called Sonya and equally a flesh and blood body called Kuba. And that ‘I’ am standing in the way of actual intimacy between them, of what Richard described below :

@Vineeto

Richard: It means to forgo, depart from, leave, quit, vacate, discontinue, stop, cease or immolate so that one’s guerdon is to be able to be unrepressed, unconstrained, unselfconscious, spontaneous, free and easy, relaxed, informal, open, candid, outspoken, uninhibited, unrestrained, unrestricted, uncontrolled, uncurbed, unchecked, unbridled

It seemed very much worthy - in that brief glimpse - to give up ‘myself’ so that the above could be lived by those flesh and blood bodies. And it would be a guarantee too, because the perfection and purity is already here.

Isn’t it fascinating how it’s all back to front in reality? That caring in the real world sense means to perpetuate the status quo and thus keep the actual flesh and blood bodies in bondage. To care in the real world sense is to perpetuate suffering forever and a day. Of course “the catch”, or the reason why ‘humanity’ has made escape into a taboo is because it entails the end of both ‘me’ and ‘humanity’.

I understand now why there was a ‘push back’ from the real world when the direct route was opened, because when actual freedom spreads across the globe there will not be another ‘self’ left in existence. The end of suffering entails the end of ‘self’.

[Kub933]

And I am not quite sure why ‘I’ wouldn’t allow it right there and then, what I can narrow it down to is something along the lines of a hope that it can be done without ‘my’ death, that ‘I’ want to have ‘my’ cake and eat it too in that sense. ‘I’ want actual freedom for ‘me’ not for the flesh and blood body called Kuba. And so of course it makes sense that I would do my rounds searching within the human condition for some “cheat code” that would allow me to remain and yet for suffering to end.

As Richard wrote the problem is that ‘I’ wish to remain in existence in order to savour the meaning.

At times I am just left laughing at how radical it is, that the solution is too simple actually… that I just need to die in order to set this body, that body and everybody free. It’s quite wild actually!

[Kub933]

And yet there is a reward for ‘me’, in the fact that ‘I’ get ‘my’ secretly longed for oblivion.

This kind of reminds me of the stages of grief or something along those descriptions lol, in that what I have been doing all this time is digesting/accepting the fact that the end of the wide and wondrous path is the end for me.

It’s now gone from being absolutely gobsmacked at how radical of a move it is to something approximating a sweet acceptance.

[Andrew]

@Kub933

To cut it short I have been aiming my caring towards other identities, towards ‘humanity’. And of course this can only have the effect of keeping ‘me’ chained to ‘humanity’. ‘I’ cannot sacrifice ‘myself’ for other identities or for ‘humanity’. The target and the beneficiaries of ‘my’ supreme sacrifice are the actually existing flesh and blood bodies.

Intellectually, I had this weird distinction in my thinking.

My mother said it perfectly the other night, when with tears down my face, I was explaining in light of my failure to save my brothers, it was obvious that ‘I’ was the problem.

Her words were exactly what we all think “i haven’t done these evil things, why should I die?l”

I am not about to start criticising this cognitive non sequentor . (Spelling). I mean, it doesn’t make a lick a sense how someone who is a Christian can’t comprehend giving their life for the greater good.

Do I need to spell this out?! I mean, seriously, I feel that I would be insulting the intelligence of any reader to spell out the absurd contradiction in a Christian not knowing that god, though perfect in the biblical account, still died to save imperfect beings. How much more would it make sense, that imperfect beings could die to save perfect beings?

Any-who…

Yeah, it’s something that I can’t imagine directly, yet, I am growing in appreciation of the physical and direct world of humans.

[Kub933]

So I managed to catch a flat tyre driving home from the gym today. Now I am certainly not the DIY kinda guy, I am usually next to useless in these kinds of situations.

I managed to drive the car home and played around with some kind of liquid that is meant to seal the tyre whilst the car’s compressor fills it with air. And it failed miserably

But what I am so happy about is that there is no stress, and I was always the kind of guy that deeply feared these kinds of situations - that “what the hell do I do now” kind of feeling.

It was actually quite fun to play around with trying to fix it and I had a nice call with my dad who was offering some information - he lived most of his life in Poland back in the day where DIY was the only way of life haha.

[Kub933]

So it seems I was onto something the other day with this addiction to ‘being’/suffering. I keep coming back to this recently and even though it is the weirdest thing it is indeed the case - ‘I’ am addicted to suffering.

Richard did write in the correspondence on addiction that it is that fundamental suffering of ‘being’ which should be explored for it’s addictive properties. And I have been exploring it, at times kind of gobsmacked at what I am finding.

And I can experience it so clearly, there is the perfection and purity all around and yet there is this magnetic pull towards suffering. And it is the weirdest of things because in the direction of the perfection and purity it is all so clean, it is so unbelievably clean… And yet there is that pull towards the grimy energy of ‘being’, towards suffering.

But this is because ‘being’ is suffering, it is one and the same thing, ‘I’ am addicted to suffering because suffering is what ‘I’ am. So ‘I’ cannot have ‘my’ cake and eat it too, ‘my’ existence is a guarantee of suffering, they are one and the same thing.
To proceed towards where it is all so clean means the end of suffering and it means the end of ‘me’. In order to give up suffering ‘I’ have to give up ‘me’.

So this clarifies somewhat this perverse addiction to suffering. But I keep coming back to something that Richard wrote in that correspondence - “what price to end suffering?”

It seems like it is such a costly thing, to give up ‘me’, but when it is seen that ‘I’ am suffering then is the price actually high? Or is it simply the end of suffering? And vice versa, the price for maintaining ‘me’ (something that appears precious) is a lifetime of suffering, why is that apparently worth anything? It’s all back to front.

‘Being’ is like grasping a hot coal in one’s hand and then calling it precious.

[Kub933]

It is becoming clearer what the target is, what it is that I am aiming for with regards to self immolation.

The recent thread regarding the direct path provided some clues, especially this idea of “the door”.

In the past I thought that this whole business of navigating a path through the psychic maze was all to do with finally coming to the end of the maze, discovering the door out.

But actually I can see now that the maze called the human condition has no way out! It is a maze with no exit. One could navigate it’s path forever and a day.

What I understand now is that ‘I’ navigate through the maze until both the maze and ‘me’ are seen for what they are, in their totality. And it is this seeing which leads to the dissolution of both ‘me’ and the maze. ‘I’ never find a door out…That is why it took me so long, so many attempts at running at those invisible walls. ‘I’ thought that ‘I’ could solve the puzzle called the human condition, that ‘I’ was to find a way out.

Richard wrote that any escape from the human condition is doomed to fail - indeed there is no escape from the human condition, especially for the ‘me’, rather both ‘me’ and the human condition are erased. And it is this body’s apperceptive awareness which is capable of such total seeing, one that has the capacity to end ‘me’ and the human condition.

[proporcrutch]

[JohnE]

@Kub933

What I understand now is that ‘I’ navigate through the maze until both the maze and ‘me’ are seen for what they are, in their totality. And it is this seeing which leads to the dissolution of both ‘me’ and the maze. ‘I’ never find a door out…That is why it took me so long, so many attempts at running at those invisible walls. ‘I’ thought that ‘I’ could solve the puzzle called the human condition, that ‘I’ was to find a way out.

I don’t normally think of it as a door even though I know many use that terminology here. To me it seems more like you say here. To me the idea would be that you achieve a critical mass to the point where you get that the whole system is moot and then everything drops because you just stop it all together. Not the way it is in meditation where you can many times use your awareness in certain ways and make a states appear.

I like the way you’ve described this.

[claudiu]

@Kub933

But actually I can see now that the maze called the human condition has no way out! It is a maze with no exit. One could navigate its path forever and a day.

Hummm I think it’s more that there is an exit, and the exit is so clear and wide and wondrous such that after the fact one wonders how one could’ve ‘missed’ it for so long

And Geoffrey was saying if the exit seems small narrow or hard, you’re on the wrong path. Since the actual exit is so wide and wondrous

@Kub933

What I understand now is that ‘I’ navigate through the maze until both the maze and ‘me’ are seen for what they are, in their totality. And it is this seeing which leads to the dissolution of both ‘me’ and the maze. ‘I’ never find a door out…That is why it took me so long, so many attempts at running at those invisible walls. ‘I’ thought that ‘I’ could solve the puzzle called the human condition, that ‘I’ was to find a way out.

I think this approach is a way of preventing oneself from going forward

What I am currently seeing as the obvious way to continue is that it is something I do, in that it is in my hands entirely. And no waiting is required either to start or to finish. And there is no indirect having to wait or configure some conditions such that it happens — rather it is a direct seeing what must happen, wanting and allowing that to happen, and then it happens (nothing else). And as I am my feelings and my feelings are me, it is none other than I, than ‘me’ (which is equal to me without scare quote) who sees this. I would call this me finding the way out!

I may be off base but reading how you write it here it sounds like you’re holding at arms length some ‘seeing’ that you can only indirectly arrive at via indirect actions, and then a sort of hoping or waiting for that ‘seeing’ to occur, but it not being something you can do. But this just puts it out of your hands and then you end up delaying

Just 2 cents! I will be able to be more authoritative once I have succeeded .