Vineeto: Only when I cared enough to give all of ‘me’ to another person, to give them what they want most, was I then ready to give it to the one I cared for most, the one I was closest to, and then I was able to leave all remnant concerns and inhibitions of my identity behind.
Kuba: I have had a lot of fun contemplating this one, it dawned on me yesterday that the same thing applies in reverse, that I cannot genuinely want a freedom for another which I do not dare to grant myself.
But investigating this further I realise this is exactly the normal order of operations within ‘humanity’. Such as urging the other to “not worry about X as you are perfect as you are” and yet being devoured by insecurity oneself. How could I sincerely urge the other to live that which I do not dare to live myself? Surely then I do not know what I speak of.
So this kind of operation is a ploy, ‘I’ do not dare to proceed and instead settle for dishing out platitudes, then vicariously receiving some good feelings through urging the other to live that which ‘I’ cannot live myself.
The funny thing is that as always everything is back to front within ‘humanity’, because those who operate exactly in this way are seen as good and selfless… “Look how little they think of themselves and yet they urge all others to love themselves!” Yet the only fitting words I can pick for such a persona is a fraud and a hypocrite, and ‘they’ know this deep down hence the need to remain humble.
[…]. So in the end whichever side I look from it is the same thing, and the outcome can only be action. [link]
Hi @Kuba,
What a brilliant description how it all hangs together and it exposes both compassion and ‘doing good’ for the ineffective and often harmful values they are.
I especially like your observation that “everything is back to front within ‘humanity’” and the green ‘extinction rebellion’ or the proponents for committing suicide who themselves have to go on living in order to spread the word are two of the more extreme examples. But what you describe is apparent in every aspect of the highly praised so-called selfless and charitable display, only differing in the various localized and ephemeral morals and ethics of ‘virtuous’ behaviour.
Once one can see through this charade (and I am not denying genuine kindness and practical help within the human condition) then one knows with certainty that anything ‘I’ can do, including helping others to become actually free, can only go as far as ‘I’ have done it myself.
‘Vineeto’ was very aware of this fact, and more painfully so as the years went on, which in turn increased ‘her’ sincere intent to stop prevaricating, until the day ‘she’ could put it off no longer. As you say - “So in the end whichever side I look from it is the same thing, and the outcome can only be action.”
Kuba: […] I can see now that self-immolation is very much about making use of the instincts in order to end the instincts, but how?
I can see that oblivion is something which ‘I’ secretly desire, and yet ‘I’ have a fundamental limitation here, because ‘I’ am programmed to survive at all cost. So ‘my’ very nature prevents ‘me’ doing that which ‘I’ secretly desire.
However there is like an ‘override button’ there is a way around this seeming impossibility. It is altruism, another aspect of ‘my’ programming. [emphasis added]. [link]
Exactly, and (biological) altruism is the stronger of aspect of the two, simply because in an evolutionary sense the survival of the species overrides the survival of the individual. And an actual freedom from malice and sorrow is very clearly the next evolutionary step, not only for the survival of the species but more so for the ultimate prospering of the human race. [link].
Cheers Vineeto