Journal de Henry

Something I’ve noticed about this ‘committing to the emotion 100%’ is that it forces me to focus on just one emotion, which helps on a couple of fronts.

Normally we follow a chain of emotions, with each reacting to the previous. This is what makes it possible for ‘me’ to maintain, because ‘I’ can’t just have one emotion all the time. So I cycle.

For example, earlier I was reminded of my ex and I felt a pang of fear, followed by sorrow, followed by worry that I’ll feel that way for a long time. Ironically, I had already moved on from the sorrow - to worry!

Another example might be feeling anger, followed by remorse, followed by sorrow about the remorse, followed by worry about the sorrow, followed by anger…

When I pick whichever emotion from that chain and consciously ‘be’ it, I soon find that that emotion cannot maintain itself for long. Some have more ‘staying power’ than others, but pretty soon, I lose interest. Even something that a moment ago seemed of earth-shattering importance!

This has greatly helped me stop ‘believing’ in the emotions… if it’s so important, why can’t I keep feeling that way? Even when I am consciously trying to feel it? The circumstances haven’t changed, but my emotion fades away pretty quickly.

Also by focusing on one emotion at a time rather than letting the chain play out, when the particular emotion fades away, it’s mainly replaced by delight (wow, that didn’t have much staying power at all) and satisfaction of a job well done - I could have just gone along the emotion-chain as usual, but this time I remembered to pin it.

Normally, ‘I’ find whatever emotion quite unpleasant and will do anything to get away from it - which really means hopping to the next emotion - and ‘finding something unpleasant’ is an emotion in itself. By committing to something 100%, I’m choosing to stay there, to look at it. It has a similar character to Richard’s describing taking back his autonomy. By my own autonomous choice, I’m embodying this or that emotion. And by making that choice, I have an interest in it, rather than trying to escape. It’s the perfect opportunity to learn things about the emotion, and about how ‘I’ operate - it’s hard to make observations when running away from something.

Last night I also observed ‘me’ being ‘blank,’ which almost seems like a different category of emotion - dissociation. It appears it’s something I learned to do to ‘cope’ with the emotion, but it also keeps them at a distance, where it’s impossible to commit to them 100% and thus reap all these benefits. The first thing I had to do was remove this ‘cover’ of blankness.

With committing 100% to the emotion, some lasted longer than others, but each time I arrived at a similar conclusion: it became obviously pointless to continue feeling that way.

Because normally we enter the emotion-chain, each emotion is avoided and rushed to the next reactive one, but with staying in the one (and committing to it), it quickly becomes obvious that the emotion is not achieving anything beyond making myself (and others) uncomfortable.

In a moment I can be mad at my friend because of something he did, but by saying “ok, I’m going to be REAL MAD for AWHILE” it began to feel pretty silly just sitting there seething and doing nothing. Me seething doesn’t do anything to change his behavior for the better. Might as well stop being angry…

Feeling good exits that whole scene, because feeling good is inherently enjoyable and is also beneficial for my actions - and the people around me, and humanity as a whole. That is worth committing 100% to.

This is all going very well :slight_smile:

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Incidentally, this is why ‘actualist morality’ doesn’t work to become free - ‘being’ the ‘correct authority’ finger-wagging at oneself for feeling the wrong way is not the same thing as feeling good. It’s just another link in the emotion-chain. And ‘I’ live to be sneaky another day…

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It’s not even the same thing as feeling [whatever is being felt]. Period.

It is good to keep in mind that moral values were generated evolutionarily and persist largely to twist/override instinctive emotions (and its consequent behaviours) considered harmful in various contexts and times, and to foster others considered beneficial.

So, methodologically speaking, it is likely that the biggest problem of a morality is how quickly it takes over by overriding an “undue” emotion (generating a “due” one, diverting attention, etc.) preventing us from fully feeling and observing what is present and who “I” am.

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11|13|22

An interesting couple of days, I’ve gone on a date with a girl and we got along really well, the first day we talked for 3 hours about all kinds of things, and then hung out more later in the day. She’s a remarkably naive, independent, and happy person.

I found that my emotions varied, at different points I was delighted by her, at other times I found things to niggle about. I also found that I felt very negatively whenever she would get nervous, which is something I’m looking to keep an eye on. I’ve had difficulty in the past when others were awkward in any way, I’d often blame it on myself. So when it’s a date, that’s even more heightened. It’s nice to see it this clearly.

Today we hung out again and we were both more relaxed since we’d gotten to know eachother a bit, and I had been investigating that nervousness issue over the evening and this morning.

I mentioned at one point going to Australia and she asked what my reasons for going were, and the cat was out of the bag - I found myself in that old familiar situation of describing the PCE and actualism for the first time to someone.

It went surprisingly well, I think I’ve loosened up a lot about hoping for a certain kind of reception from that. And she actually was pretty interested and agreed with a lot of the points. She couldn’t remember a PCE, but she’s similarly in a place where she’s looking to be more free, less dependent on ‘normal’ ways of being. She could see the sense in being happier.

There was also something interesting, at one point I told her about how I had a little brother that died a decade ago, and how that had in many ways spurred me to get to the point where actualism made sense, where I’m chasing something beyond the normal. And her father had died at a young age and had had a similar impact on her. It reminded me of how many of the pioneering actualists had been through something like that, that changed them and made it worth it to them to push beyond the normal.

Anyway it’s pretty encouraging. It’s also not lost on me that I’ve met this person at a point where I’ve started to be doing really well, most days are really good now, even the ‘down’ days are ‘just good.’ This date working out doesn’t feel to me like it has to work out, which is new for me, and it lends the whole thing a relaxed air. I spent a good chunk of our time together today in excellence, on the edge of PCE. Pretty neat.

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11|15|22

Transitioned into feeling stress about this new girl pretty much immediately, with two facets of having critical/doubting feelings (is she good enough?) and fears of losing her (am I good enough?).

This is all familiar territory from my previous relationship, I’m taking the approach of just dropping the fears. All my worries don’t really do anything to change the outcome anyway (other than making everything stressful of course). Maybe she will reject me, maybe at some future time I’ll break up, but I can’t know that right now and it doesn’t really matter anyway. I’ve already (re)proven to myself over the last month that I can really enjoy myself as a single person, so that is useful.

It’s been really cool seeing how similar the hangups are with the others posting about relationship stuff @Andrew @Josef @Kub933

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Personally, I think I will need to do a “Peter” on this one, as there is a lot to unpack in the 3 words which have so far rung a bell;

Commitment
Love
Expectations

There’s also the accumulated distress of having failed/been failed in previous relationships.

Can I drop it all? Maybe.

I am determined to use the opportunity to pull back the rug and examine everything I have been sweeping under it for decades.

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I think the main thing is making sure that any decision arrived at is as sincere as possible. Of course we all know the ‘right answer’ is dropping the love, but there’s a big difference of genuinely doing that & covertly maintaining hopes

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This is what happens to me too.

Only when the commitment/ love vibe arrived.

There is a choice happening. (Hehe, recent discussions :rofl:). Something clicks over into a whole realm of emotional calculations.

Will I get what I really want?

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This is a great question

Love has a ‘what I really want,’ but it’s always dangled just out of reach

But I don’t need her, or love, or commitment to enjoy & appreciate, right now.

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I’m starting to think the only way to drop love is within the context of a love relationship. The feelings are so unpredictable and strong sometimes that no amount of theorizing from the sidelines will ever give you real results.

Anyway, @henryyyyyyyyyy and @Andrew I am eager to read your ongoing sagas and whether you can maintain your feeling good or you get entangled by love. Either way, it’s useful stuff.

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Haha, grab the popcorn :popcorn:

I am toying with the idea of a 6 axis spreadsheet with 3 dimensions of space and 3 of time!

So much to consider.

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If I never have to express love in a relationship, then it’s a bit more easy peasy as an actualist because I could secretly give up love even while in the relationship…but problem will happen when there is expectations in the form of reciprocation…like if she says “I love you”…then what ?

As a feeling being, I will also naturally have loving feelings build up…so let’s say I reciprocate n say it back…but then this will reinforce the loving circuitry…no ? … which circuitry is something that as an actualist I have to weaken and eliminate…not only this, but by reciprocating I might be a tad deceptive to the person, if she expects lifelong love whilst I’m secretely planning to give it up at some point in time…in other words, it’s a waste of another person’s time if they want love

The approach of wanting intimacy - things are somewhat tricky here because colloquially speaking everyone takes intimacy to mean the affectionate kinds rather than the actualist kind of sincere, naive and ultimately actual intimacy

I’m still trying to figure out a few things…thinking in terms of the “trap of love” is proving key to incline more towards actuality

It’s a tricky territory for sure…the ideal is like Kubas relationship with a fellow actualist hehe

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I don’t really see it that way. I am in love. It’s my reality right now, and who knows for however long. I am not being duplicitous just because I am working towards something better. Maybe I am reinforcing love, but I am also seeing its pitfalls while fully engaging with it. I wouldn’t even say I’m secretly planning to give it up. If love proves to not be the answer, then it is sensible to look for something better. With your approach it seems like you won’t give love a chance and just push it down. Not saying that is the case though.

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Oh no…I’ve already been in a full blown loving relationship with all it’s ups n downs…as an actualist now who doesn’t want to go the love route, my only problem happens now in expectations of reciprocation

But then it’s all actually such a pioneering adventute to figure all this out !

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@geoffrey described how his family members are always projecting emotions onto him, going so far as thinking that he’s mad at them at times, the same thing would be happening with love. Just by being nice to be around, kind, caring, they’ll think there’s love happening even if it’s not. I don’t think it’s all that much of an issue.

The “I love you too” thing is an interesting one which I’ve also faced before, it comes down to 2 things: are you telling your partner about actualism (and what it entails) or not, and that there is morality around being secretive / deceptive / duplicitous. Lying is one of the things that bothers humans the most, but that isn’t reason enough for it to never be the right answer. Richard uses the example of the Nazis coming to the door asking if you’re hiding Jews under your floorboards, but there are other situations where it may be genuinely the best thing to do.

If you’ve determined - sincerely - that it’s better to not tell your partner about actualism, then you’re going to be faced pretty immediately with that “I love you too” situation, and it would be pretty damn weird to not say “I love you too.” So the simplest thing would be to just say it, allow her to experience the love (even if it’s not technically there), and carry on the business of actual caring (or caring to the best degree you’re capable of).

I will say though that Richard says that there are hardly any situations he has to lie in and hadn’t told a lie in years and obviously he lives with another actually free person and has made a habit of being with people at least interested in freedom over the last ~35 years. So that’s also worth consideration.

I personally am taking the route of telling prospective partners about actualism, but that doesn’t mean it’s the right approach for every situation. It’s a fact that 99% of people won’t become actualists, something like 97% won’t grasp it very well, and maybe 90% will think it’s a bad thing once they hear about the ‘no love’/'no emotions aspect.

Another thing is that generally those who grasp for love & the performative trappings of love the most are the most insecure people. The purpose of love is palliative / reassuring, and a happy / assured person doesn’t have to jump into it as often.

Mostly I think it’s a non-issue because by being a caring, kind, attentive person, you’re checking all the boxes that love purports (and fails) to.


I’m remembering something else from early in my previous relationship, which is a bit of a version of actualist morality, and that was thinking “ok, no love allowed… I know! I’ll just be cold & distant!”

That is NOT it.

I think it’s easy for the identity to guess at that and it goes back to confusing the trappings of love with love itself.

It’s not ‘against actualism’ to take a partner on a nice date, buy them flowers, or tell them that you like them a lot. Yes those things are normally associated with love, but love itself is an emotion. It’s missing the point to go on a fatwa against showing love to a partner and then be ultra cold & distant with them. All that’s happened is now you’re feeling cold & distant, which is certainly not the same as feeling good.

A free person is someone that can do anything under the sun, but it’s coming from the mind freed of sorrow, malice, love, & compassion. Sometimes that means booking a vacation to cancun with someone you like hanging out with.

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11|15|22 (part 2)

Hung out with new girl again (I’m going to call her ‘C’ here for convenience) and had a great time. Lots of giggling. Successful adjustments, good job @henryyyyyyyyyy

Can still see that I’m in the way. Incremental progress :slight_smile:

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Here is where things can get weird and interesting when it comes to actual caring- to actually care for someone is for them to never suffer … which means - as odd as it sounds - for them to not experience love because love comes with suffering.

I have a small case in example from my last relationship…She said that she doesn’t miss me because there isn’t anything to hold us despite all the fun etc…this sounded quite good to me actually and I asked her isn’t that a good thing that she is free from the grip of this negative feeling…to which she said that she misses the feelings of missing someone …to which I said something like that’s sadism…to which she said yeah she knows, but…Checkmate…wisdom of the real world😎

The human addiction to suffering is legendary…Even now on rare ocassions, I feel like indulging in sad songs hehe

Also, when it comes to care… I think Richard said in those taped dialogues something like A cares for B and B cares for A and both get care … so might as well care for oneself because end result is the same…

However medical care is a different thing…sometimes one cannot care for oneself and external care is required

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Yep, that’s part of why I prefer to tell prospective partners about actualism, when the time is right. In this case it came up pretty quickly because she asked what I was doing visiting Australia :sweat_smile:

I think where things might get tipped in the direction of ‘it’s better not to say anything’ sometimes (often?) would be that we can’t force or even really convince anyone else to give up on love or become interested in actualism. It really has to come from them. So sometimes saying something might just cause more damage than potential benefit.

I think Richard says something about not being able to force anyone to experience perfection lol

Of course it’s equally as true for you & I

11|16|22

Running through the same fears and fantasy I’ve had since I first became aware I had it in 2017

Can I attract the right girl? Am I enough? Am I rich enough? Do I have enough influence?

The money would just be for toys to catch her attention. It’s not enough. It’s not genuine.

Influence is impossible. I can get influence by selling real-world things to people. But actualism doesn’t have that pop appeal.

What I want is someone that’s genuinely happy to be there.

And I realized the whole fantasy is something that is possible, I’ve just been missing the point this whole time.

It’s just about being happy to be here. It can be done. Richard, Peter, Vineeto, Grace. Srinath and Geoffrey. Craig. And the woman from India. That is one potential outcome. I can’t count on it, but it is possible. And it starts right now, with me, here, today.

This whole time I’ve been trying to dismantle the fantasy by seeing its falsity, but really what I want is completely possible. I just have to do my side.

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https://discuss.actualism.online/t/quotes/184/122