Just to pitch in and add that i don’t think it’s necessary to go here either. It might feel inevitable and like you do — but this feeling of being compelled, is just part of the package, and it’s not a fact!

There’s no “dark night of the soul” requirement for actualism!

The reports of “plumbing the depths of one’s psyche” is something that you can choose to do and/or may find yourself doing, when it’s appropriate to do so. But definitely not something you have to do.

Also when any such plumbing of a depth will happen, I don’t recommend doing it without a firm connection to purity / pure intent — such pure intent will make it completely safe to do so.

And if you do happen to find yourself in hell as I once did (I experienced myself as literally the devil, here just to cause havoc and mess up random people’s lives), without necessarily a firm grasp on pure intent at the time - then simply keep your hands in your pocket (as I did then) and everything will eventually subside and be ok!



Speaking personally, when I experienced that super dread once when attempting to self-immolate, I just kept my hands in my pocket like Claudiu is saying and knowing well from the past track record of all feelings - they will die out sooner or later…and now whenever something of that sort bubbles up, I already know what that territory is so simply decline to go there aka nip it in the bud…because its the same ol same ol with nothing fruitful to give.


Yeah, I know this. What has bothered me has been that I did go down that hole… whereas for example Vineeto didn’t and that I therefore might have to finish it?

But then. I had what seemed to be a mini pce in 2017; I experienced a closeness to the actual world last year; then feeling good and even excellent for a few seconds. Perhaps this can be cultivated more… meaning that I don’t have to go deeper down into some collective hell?

It’s all about this moment of being alive… and I need to get a deeper experiental understanding of this fact. I just gotta keep asking HAIETMOBA and become even more advanced in this.

I very much appreciate your posts. My worst nightmares lost a lot of strength reading them. I was even able to laugh about the matter when replying to Henry’s post! I haven’t witnessed such an attitude in myself ever during these 12-13 years when thinking about the matter. Perhaps I’ll move past this eventually… as I did move past the spiritual beliefs that came back haunting me last year - an episode which left me feeling like a wreck and eventually had me to confess to Mr. Craig himself. :slight_smile:

Again, I’m going to continue to HAIETMOBA (to have fun with this) and see where it takes me.

Devils or no devils, here I come! :sweat_smile:

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I just don’t get to experience what I for brief moments got to experience a long time ago - certainly I don’t get to experience any PCE’s. Even so… things are being experienced as all good - even though I still get lost in real life more often than not! It doesn’t matter, I don’t beat myself up about it. All is okey… The point in fighting myself seem completely gone (“I” simply don’t know better! :heart:). I just keep getting back on track without any effort. It might take days, even a week, but the days of completely falling of the horse are gone.

Something wants to keep going…

Yeah, I get lost in my old addictions (the internet/games) for hours, but suddenly I just stop and sit and enjoy a good reading of the becoming free accounts. Other times i lock myself up in the bathroom and just sit there for an hour doing nothing, lol. I don’t have to ‘morally’ force myself to do this (“I should be doing…”). It just happens naturally… I don’t experience much felicitious feelings. The method is about enjoying and appreciating - apparently not so much for me yet! Something is happening, but not what was expected:

I just feel more calm and at peace… (at times I might ‘appreciate’ and experience this vague ‘stillness’ (?) as ‘enjoyable’)

The only thing that seems of value is asking HAIETMOBA and to have myself relax (not doing) in this endeavour only… Today I did this almost all day, in the morning, at work, after work and now - without any ‘moral’ effort. I just effortlessly wanted to do it. :slight_smile:


I now know that I’ve been at fault looking to identify with “descriptions of experiences” (Srinaths words): “How is my experience aligned with what’s said here and anywhere on the actual freedom homepages?” - has been on my mind for quite a while.

Especially the words felicitious and innocious has been what I’ve strived after for so long: “How to be more of this? How to enjoy and appreciate?” Always looking towards becoming. Always working towards something beyond this moment of being alive.

When exactly this moment is all that matters… No matter how it experienced, this moment is all that matters… and this moment is all I care for. Be it dull, be it full of anguish and sadness - it really doesn’t matter at all. It’s still the most important moment of my entire life… It’s still my only moment of being alive, a moment of no duration, a moment that has always been without an end (no matter what’s going on). With this approach, it doesn’t really matter anymore what feeling that’s currently experienced. I certainly don’t care to change (becoming) anything towards becoming more “felictious and innocious” (Here I get the feeling that I’ve talked about all this before lol).

I only care for this moment of being alive.

Feeling good happens and will happen by itself… as if the light of this moment banishes all darkness, as if only asking HAIETMOBA, nothing can remain the same. “I” can’t remain the same… through simply asking this basic question ‘over and over’ again.

What now matters, are not a single discussion taking place here on these forums (even if I can’t help myself from reading them. I mean even your silly ‘emoijs’ still matters to me… :joy:) nor any words written anywhere on the web about an actual freedom. No! It’s all “descriptions of experiences” to me and I don’t care for more dead words…. I only care for the direct experience of this moment of being alive. Only the experience of whatever is going on right now… simply staying aware… asking:


I can’t try to live in the moment, I’m never here and can never be here, but I sure can ask myself how it’s experienced. Funnily enough, I’m never satisfied with how it’s experienced and perhaps I never will be? :slight_smile:

“HAIETMOBA to the end of days eh?”

This above phrase I’ve certainly stated before. I wonder how many times I need to get back to this simplest realization of them all, before I stop deviating from it? Let us all pray it’s the last time. :wink:

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I admire your “balls to the wall” passion.

Certainly, a passionate stab at anything is better than nothing at all.

Raw determination is sure to yeld results, with whatever tweaking is needed along the way.

An unexamined life is hardly worth living, after all.

Since you guys are asking… :joy:

I think the biggest difference from before is that now I more thoroughly know - by experience - that I don’t have to “take a stand/do something” about whatever is currently experienced. For instance, I had this walk today, and initially it was full of the usual anxiety that is so ‘me’ (I’m a very anxious person.). But over time… the walk became ‘calm’ and what I’d perhaps describe as ‘enjoyable’ - and it happened by itself.

I sort of have this deepened understanding which now has me just relaxing in being aware of whatever that is experienced - even if it’s a bad feeling. My only bussiness is staying aware of how this moment is experienced.

If I still had been a spiritual person I’d say that my approach is treating all phenomena as Holy. I therefore no longer fiddle with bad feelings or any feeling at all. I just stay aware and relax in the how I’m experiencing this moment of being alive. If I notice myself ‘fiddle’, the very noticing itself has me once again, relax in what’s currently being experienced.

Somehow when becoming more and more aware of this moment of being alive, my worries seem to fade away, to be replaced with what I’d describe as a vague enjoyment. It’s not really my doing. It just happens.

This sounds so similar to depression and anxiety, especially the sort of state I found my self in when their intensity died down, so I was not “well” yet but better than the most intense bouts of depression and anxiety, maybe I tolerated this state for too long as a comparison to worse states and an inability to get back to being happy, whether that meant in the AF-sense or any generic sense.

Apart from the self harm, I can relate. There is an intense rage in me towards the world and all life. As though the solution through anger and pain is only destruction. Instead of screaming I find myself grinding my teeth (to the point of damage) and clenching my fists. So much pain and hurt in me. These states are getting less frequent now. It is like I want to vent and punish humanity, but nobody is to blame for blind nature that made all of these forms of harms possible. However, blind nature has now revealed a state where the psychological harms can be stopped.

@Kub933, the mind when in the most extreme emotional distress really has an unbelievable ability to alter reality. Create an internal delusion of additional suffering.

I reached on the brink of an abyss or madness, of being overwhelmed with too much emotion, pain and thoughts, it was like my mind was close to closing down. It was a traumatic event that unlocked all suppressed traumas. So, just living your life without attempting to “let go” can still lead you in this direction, some unexpected trauma. I knew somebody who had a breakdown after she burnt an oven pizza she was cooking, like it was the final straw. There is still a probability this could happen to you living a normal life without going into AF. The illusion of safety from psychological harm whilst being “normal” is just that, an illusion. The very thing your afraid of, is the thing most likely to free you from ever being impacted by these psychological harms and traumas.

I appreciate your honesty. I am scared too at times and you are not alone in this regard. @claudiu has a good point in the safety of pure intent, and I started my journey into AF without the memory of purity or pure intent and was able to have initial success just from being open and sincere. There is no shame in being afraid.

Regarding fear, I guess I know experientially now that the fear can be passed through. Intense panic attacks, when I truly believed I was brain damaged and dying, my heart thrashing wildly, struggling for breath to the point of passing out. I have got through this, survived, lived, and recovered. Experientially, whatever happens you will build up a confidence and if you can’t cope, then there are medicines and other forms of medical help to get you to a better baseline of normal, if you can ask for help.

I agree wholeheartedly with what @Andrew says, getting back to a normal baseline worked for me. I tried for years to circumvent these issues without success, there is no rush to succeed. Figure out where you are at and what you need.

I haven’t had a PCE since 2007, though multiple EE’s and moments of felicity. There was a long patch when I never though I would experience even those states again. I used to let the curse of comparison upset me, seeing others become free all in the time I was wallowing in depression and anxiety, oh woe is me. I think once I removed that pressure or expectation to emulate what others have done or are doing I then realised they had nothing to do with my being happy and harmless, it definitely unlocked something for me, a relief of pressure.

Sounds like your finding your way.

To reiterate, there is always another moment, another opportunity to be happy and harmless. I no longer castigate myself for my failings to achieve such an outcome.


Yes, from a psychological standpoint, it certainly has been a form of depressive state (that has been my thinking too). I’m quite happy to report that I’ve been able to enjoy these past 2 months a bit more. I can look back at my trip to tenerife and really see how nice it was; yeah, I have several happenings that were very enjoyable and thus not clouded by my earlier indifference.

In general, my mood is much improved and I even feel excited from time to time about certain stuff. So things are going in the right direction for sure. I think that me being in this positive relationship also contributes of course.

Btw. I’ve ‘let go’ and am letting go of everything to do with the abyss these days.

My only business is HAIETMOBA. The how and treating whatever experienced as being perfect as it is… Not trying of course, but more and more seeing/understanding, that I can’t do or change anything. I must be perfectly happy with how each moment is experienced, no matter the feeling that’s currently experienced. There can’t be anymore of going/becoming/striving for something beyond this moment.

I’m not sure if this is the way to go. But I see no other way but to let myself dissolve by not creating nor sustaining any more views/beliefs. No! No more cumbersome investigations, shallow realizations, just letting it all go! :slight_smile:

Nothing but applying pure awareness to each moment again, eh?

Thanks for you taking the time to comment.


Sounds like things are a lot better for you.

I am still sometimes surprised how I can lose track of HAIETMOBA and current time awareness still. A case of keeping up the habit I guess.

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I want a good reason to write and I wish that I had something to show. But not much is happening really.

Progress is slow…

What I seem to have found out (after all this time) is that I’m struggling to enjoy and appreciate because I seem to be very dissociated. I noticed this right now, when the fog of emotions cleared to some degree, that even though I’m working so hard on HAIETMOBA - it’s like I’m mostly spending my time dreaming about being aware of this moment of being alive - a sort of dissociated timeless moment which isn’t actual.

When my dissociated state evolves into a more actual experience of this moment of being alive - this sort of opens up for the “senses to sense” (that’s how it feels) and since I’m often just feeling (not sensing) I’m sort of trapped deep within my own mind. I don’t feel happy here in this imagined moment of being alive where I just tumble around in my own chaotic disociated state. This might have to do with a life of much trauma and the later heroic effort I put into becoming enlightened. Who cares?

What matters is: How to break through the fog?

Well, these past weeks my intent has ramped up noticeably. My best guess would be that an ever increasing intent, will eventually bring the success that I’m looking for. Intent itself seems extremely important. Intent is what has me put my mind to this and it’s what has me endure what I’d rather run from. I don’t have pure intent and my only way of making it pure (the word purity means nothing to me yet) is to keep ramping it up (this cannot be an forced effort). Knowing that “I” can do something acctually helps. Knowing that I’m the only one that can do something about myself - helps even further.

Failure is not an option, even though failure is what I might have.


From what you wrote it’s like there are currently two gears being operated - dissociative fog state and senses sensing state. This might be why it seems so difficult to shift from one to the other, because it is.

That second gear in my experience is more like the 4th gear, the ones in between which are so important are feeling good, the progression from just being ok, to starting to have a bit of fun, to genuinely enjoying and appreciating and then all of a sudden the world opens up.

I can relate a lot to what you write and I think for the guys who for whatever reasons spent most of their life being genuinely miserable (perhaps even below your average joe) it’s so important to re-learn how to feel good in the most ordinary sense of the word.

It might feel even like a betrayal of the actualist quest (especially for the one who is already predisposed to either despair or heroism) to do this, to just feel ok in your day to day life, more often than not.


It sounds like you’re describing resolve and what one may call grit (“courage and resolve; strength of character”).

These are beneficial qualities for success for sure!

I just write to suggest also to keep sincerity in mind. Rather than ‘my’ intent, I think sincerity trumps that even more. Sincerity will naturally lead to the doing of the thing that you want to do.

Sincerity is what will lead to you breaking through the fog. It’s what allows you to perceive there is a fog in the first place (instead of denying it exists). And it is what allows you to see that you want to actually do something about it.

So ramp up that sincerity! Observe yourself, be aware of yourself, and you will see that sometimes the fog lifts and sometimes it gets denser. Sincerity will then allow you to see what happened to lead to the fog lifting and what happened to lead to the fog thickening. You will sincerely see why the fog got thicker. You will sincerely see specifically what you did thought or felt such that you went deeper in the fog. Then you will sincerely be able to see that you would rather change that about yourself - and thus lift the fog a little bit - rather than continue with the habitual pattern that leads to the thicker fog.

And then you rinse and repeat and the fog will gradually get lighter over time :slight_smile:



I’ve certainly being cast between a state of heroism and dispair throughout a great part of my life. Any certainty, any foundation, which to stand upon has always been lost in the crazy interflux between the two - in the agony of utter confusion.

Living with a shattered ‘self’.

These days the ‘pendlum’ no longer seem to swing in these extremes. I no longer cry and curse my clumsy footstep and I no longer need to lay down because of getting manically excited about something. I’m neither manic nor heroic. But even if this dance between the light and the dark is minimized, the very basic structure of how my psyche operates seem to remain.

My ‘self’ ain’t shattered no more.

I don’t experience myself lacking in sincerity. In the aftermath of my abyssal experience, when having wandered in a confused state of mind for many years, I stumbled upon this gem in the writings of young Felix. To my amazement Felix, a newcomer on Slack, who knew little to nothing about Actualism (?) still acted like some sort of actualist prophet and thus he made a fools effort to wake all us sleepers the fuck up! It was so funny when he notified every single person on the list of members at Slack! I was moved, something inside me here clicked. Before these events I didn’t know sincerity … or had since long … lost it’s flame in the black depths of my own soul.

This quality of sincerity ‘waxes and wanes’ but never does it leave me completely.

But sincerity wasn’t enough by itself, even though I here made my first genuine attempt at this buissness of Actualism in the year of 2020, I later lost my way again for many months - going back and forth like this… the picking up of the ball … later to drop it … Unknown to me back then … there was another quality that was missing. This quality was later found when reflecting upon my own experiences in relation to the naive writings of Frank and his recollection of a zoom-meeting with geoffrey. Here my intent was awaken - and thus it also marks the begining of my journal.

This quality of my intent ‘waxes and wanes’ but never does it leave me completely.

Now, having walked a while upon my own path, being blessed by these two qualities, I no longer make much distinction between the two. I now find it hard to say where sincerity starts and my intent begins. They seem intertwined; as if being the different sides of the same coin. Without sincerity it wouldn’t even be possible to take one’s very first step on the path [no flame] and without intent it would be impossible to stay on the path - and to keep on walking - even when it gets dark and things seem to be without an solution (being lost in a fog of feelings etc.). I therefore like the phrase … sincere intent …

I don’t care to write here much … and I can hardly bring myself to do so. But the other day I did manage (an act of strength) to confess about my whereabouts. I didn’t expect anything to come from this - but lo and behold! - yesterday morning something seem to have clicked when I realized (?) that what has been missing in my erroneous approach - might be a solid connection/link - to this moment of being alive. This sounds logical when reading my own words:

“it’s like I’m mostly spending my time dreaming about being aware of this moment of being alive - a sort of dissociated timeless moment which isn’t actual. []… I’m sort of trapped deep within my own mind. I don’t feel happy here in this imagined moment of being alive where I just tumble around in my own chaotic disociated state.”

I guess a feeling being easily can make the misstake of thinking of this moment in ‘abstract terms’ as if it’s something that’s to be understood ‘intellectually’ or through the repetetive force of asking HAIETMOBA; that the glory of this moment will eventually sort of dawn upon self one day? In my own case I’ve sort of made it an habit of putting extra emphasis on this moment - sometimes even verbally/mentally uttering but this one word (“this”) - in attempt of making it absolutely clear that I’m emotionally aware in this moment. But as it seems … I’ve been dissociating … perhaps trying to have a misty part of myself acting as the ‘moment’ that I pretended/desired to know? I don’t know how else to ‘intelligently’ (?) describe this in words.

““This moment” is not abstract at all. It is all there is.” - geoffrey on Slack (2017)

In any case, I was very excited while riding my bike to work yesterday morning, when my mind poundered upon this … and here … was experiencing myself as able to turn my attention towards this moment. I could actively turn my awareness towards it - almost as if now always ‘looking for it’ - while being aware of feelings at the same time (How else to describe what I’m now doing?).

This different approach … felt like the opening of a window and now to have a fresh air flowing into the dark dungeon called me - here to mix with the stench of the rotten feelings that I’ve been breathing for so long. Everything felt so much easier, my heart felt light and the most part of yesterday morning I thus spent in a most unusual joyous state of mind; playing and fooling around with the kids that I work with.

Perhaps I’m now to ‘ground’ myself in this new approach? Perhaps I’m now to strengthen the relationship - this link - between me and this moment? Time and experience will tell … if this is a dead end …or if I’m really onto something here. What speaks of it’s authenticity is that I want to do it … and can’t stop doing it. It’s like I have found this new toy that I want to keep playing around with. Perhaps I’m finally begining to understand what was written to me almost 4 years ago (2019) on Slack by Mr. Srinathjelly:

“Oh yeah and then there’s the all important 3rd facet - experience that isn’t affective, being aware that it is always this moment and besides the affective, the sensuous can also be paid attention to abc delighted in. So as you can see it is quite a dynamic practise.” (on the subject of asking HAIETMOBA)

If so … it would be a bit embarassing eh? What others seem to pick up at first sight and take for granted - takes years for me to understand! Funny part is … that I wasn’t even aware that I was trying to understand this at all. I now know why there are no questions for the actually free (I sometimes wish I had a thousand questions for them): I’m such a muddle head. I don’t even know what my problems are and thus I don’t know what to ask! How the hell to become free when I don’t even know what the hell I’m doing!? :joy: I can only pray that I’ll one day experientally will understand how to be Happy and Harmless. Then you’d all be saying:

“If that old fool could do it then surley everyone can!”

Until then, don’t expect anything at all from this unintelligent and slow moving Turtle. :wink:

@John, I can definitely relate to what you are writing here. It took me so long to realise that imagination in a way is another form of disassociation.

Then an extra effort to realise I was imagining doing the method or having some internal monologue about it but I wasn’t actually doing it.

One of the things I realised I was doing when first introduced to AF, I always had this virtual version of some friend in my mind that I would talk to. I was still doing this so habitually, even when my group of friends sort of broke apart, I was still talking to them in my mind. Then I just went back to talking to myself. I find myself often losing current time awareness, sincerity and felicity just from going back into this internal monologue.

I found the contribution from @Felix very serendipitous for me as well, as I had sort of gone through CBT and was making the first real progress with getting out of my depression and anxiety and to a better normal baseline and he really struck a chord with me too and gave me a sort of motivation and got me thinking clearer about my habits and behaviour, his style of writing resonated with me too.

The sincerity and naivety coupled together and just being loose about things, as in not feeding some downer feeling if you haven’t quite got into a felicitous state, being friends with yourself really makes a difference. I am starting to break my habit of berating myself and it is really helping. The days are getting lighter.


Ahhhhhhh my dear @John . It does appear like you have at last come across pure intent!

Welcome to the club :slight_smile:

It is a “different approach” indeed isn’t it?

For me I have experienced it in different ways. When further away from it and I remember to look for it it seems like a far-off faint yet ever present diffuse yellow light. When much nearer I experience it like a constant breath or breeze of fresh cool air — which your ”felt like the opening of a window and now to have a fresh air flowing into the dark dungeon called me reminded me of.

Yees experiencing pure intent does tend to make one naive doesn’t it? It works the other way around too — being naive allows you to experience pure intent more fully.

It is what I would suggest!

Hehe yes, have no fear :slight_smile:

On a related note, this might have some benefit to contemplate, and of most benefit if you contemplate it while experiencing again what you wrote here — do you see now why I drew such a sharp and stark distinction for you some time ago between “pure intent” and “my intent”? They’re not the same at all are they? :smile: A “different approach” indeed!



I wouldn’t be embarrassed it took me years too — and years of forgetting in between re-remembering lol :joy:


Reading this was so refreshing ( what level of honesty and self reflection)!
Really appreciate your style of writing and can relate to what you have written.
Keep up the good work John!


These days, alot of ideas and different approaches seem to ‘pop up’. One thing right now was when I started to verbally think the word “enjoy” not finishing the sentence with: “[]… this moment of being alive.” Doing it like this:

Me thinking: “Enjoy” … [silence] … * tasting it experientally*

Anyways, when these new thoughts/ideas etc. pop up, so does the name geoffrey … I then come to think of how I want to make him proud of me and how I desire to ask him about my stuff - in an attempt to get some clarity to my confused world.

I’ve sometimes been wondering if I’d actually need to reach out to him, due to the fact that I’m making little progress and that my irrational entries here, doesn’t seem to be in accordance with actualism at all (my feeling in my darkest moments) … here fearing … me … being completely lost in a maze of my own make-believe - that has no end - where I’m just walking around in endless circles … achieving nothing … That me partaking here is just some scheme, a falsehood, and something that only gives nourishment [comfort] to my godforsaken existence (I mean, when am I to come here and write about all my wonderful EE’s and PCE’s - that doesn’t seem to be happening does it?)

Here I also fear geoffrey, that he would somehow point out my ‘nakedness’, that he probably considers me mad and lost beyond all help. His silence towards me sort of ‘confirms’ this. Oh, yeah this is even more embarrassing: I acctually want him to ‘like’ my posts and I sometimes feel envious seeing him commenting and liking other peoples journals; applauding their successes. More so … in those very moments … I feel like the forgotten child that just hasn’t “got it in him” and that their personalities better portray, what actualism is all about.

Oh, geoffrey you’re like the father I never had! :slight_smile:


Amen brother.

I think Geoffrey should share the secret sauce. :wink: