James: The key for me is seeing that the fact of self-immolation is that the feeler is in the way.
Vineeto: When you (in vain) try to remove “the feeler”, remember that you are the feeler, just as you are your feelings and your feelings are you. Does “seeing that fact” have “an effect” on ‘you’? Do you recognize that ‘you’ need to whole-heartedly agree to ‘your’ demise because ‘you’ are “in the way”?
James: No, I don’t recognize that I need to whole-heartedly agree to my demise. I was talking about a preliminary stage. Sorry for making it sound like a false alarm. (link)
Let me say it in Richard’s words, because in October 2002 you understood the process, at least intellectually. Perhaps it can click now experientially as well, when, as Richard says, you read with both eyes open, i.e. with all your being.
Richard to James: It is this feeling of ‘self’ (and of ‘other’ of course) which is the illusion … and it is this feeling ‘self’, the feeler (‘me’ as soul), the ‘me’ at the core of ‘my’ being (which is ‘being’ itself), who gives rise to the thinking ‘self’, the thinker (‘I’ as ego), which is where cognitive self-consciousness has become cognitive ‘self’-consciousness. (List B, James2, 17 Oct 2002).
James: Are you saying then that in order to eliminate the ‘I’ and the ‘me’ that the instinctual passions themselves have to be eliminated …
Richard: No … and the reason why not is this simple: who would be doing the eliminating of the instinctual passions? As ‘I’ am ‘my’ feelings and ‘my’ feelings are ‘me’ it is an impossibility because the result of trying to do so would be a stripped-down rudimentary animal ‘self’ (seemingly) divested of feelings … somewhat like what is known in psychiatric terminology as a ‘sociopathic personality’ (popularly known as ‘psychopath’). [emphasis added].
Richard: In the end, only altruistic ‘self’-immolation, for the benefit of this body and that body and every body, will release the flesh and blood body from its parasitical resident and, as ‘I’ am ‘my’ feelings and ‘my’ feelings are ‘me’, the end of ‘me’ is the end of ‘my’ feelings (aka the instinctual passions and all their cultivated derivations).
James: Isn’t it the ‘I’ and the ‘me’ investigating itself which brings one to the point of self-immolation and isn’t it the ‘I’/‘me’ that makes the decision to self-immolate?
Richard: Yes … only ‘I’ can do it as it is all in ‘my’ hands and nobody else’s hands (nor is it in the hands of any god or goddess either, of course, despite some popular postulations to the contrary).
James: You said above that the ‘I’/‘me’ cannot eliminate the instinctual passions but then you next said that the body is released from them by self-immolation. I am just trying to get a clear picture of it.
Richard: Okay … I was just making the point that, although it is hypothetically correct that the elimination of the instinctual passions would be the elimination of ‘I’/‘me’, it does not work that way in practice (for reasons such as already explained further above).
Not only is it dangerous it is an impossibility … only altruistic ‘self’-immolation will do the trick. (List B, James2, 19 Oct 2002).
Cheers Vineeto