Hunterad's journal

Journals
80

Richard:
"An unimaginable purity permeates the whole of existence, showering its blessing over all and sundry. From the condition of being ‘human’, one can plug into that purity with a pure intent.

Pure intent is the connection between the intimate aspect of oneself, that one usually keeps hidden away for fear of seeming foolish, and the purity of the peak experience."

Me:
All the normal advice/ observations I gave, of course pale into insignificance when one considers what Richard suggests we do with that intimate aspect of ourselves.

Plug into the purity of the universe !

Apparently, it gives a great return on investment. Always comes back, and draws one in for more.

It’s quite the sales pitch. I am sold, pending delivery.

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I appreciate your investigation into this.

With what I am beginning to really hunger for, a connection to pure intent, I can see they are closely related.

The advice and observations I gave all have a jaded world view. That intimate part of myself, which I yearn to have cared for by others, has been squashed down. For the reasons Richard gives; appearing foolish.

However, that intimate part of myself can be “nurtured” by the benevolence and benignity of the actual universe. I am told. That is the safety I crave. There are no fools turning the tap on when it suits their game, or turning it off to feel dominant and or above/below me. Whichever particular drama they are playing at.

An inexhaustible source of intimacy, with no shadow of rejection. No-one’s mood to consider, no games to play (except the adventure of a lifetime) it doesn’t care how I look, what I earn, whether I am funny, strong or weak. How could I not crave that like nothing I have craved before?

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sign me up :smiley: This is what makes the most sense to me right now. For me the clearest form it takes is probably a bit muddy… and it’s slightly self-sacrificial. I’ll put myself out on a limb and be myself from the most naive core, knowing that I could be the ‘loser’. Yet as long as I am being that naive core I am not thinking in terms of winners and losers.

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Thanks for this Andrew, a much needed reminder to first go back to feeling good, before doing anything else ( thinking, talking, actions, etc. ).

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Been in a very good space for around 5 days. Essentially seeking the end of distance between myself and others as a MO. What this seeking has led me to is an openness to potential actions in the moment. In other words, to end the distance between me and others means a lack of an ‘ongoing narrative’ that places me and them in fixed relationship. This is like letting go of the controls in the context of interacting with people.

When those controls are absent I am truly experiencing the other person rather than the role I assigned them, and I am being myself rather than the role I assign myself. Best example of this was spending time with the girl who I was interested in at work. A few times in the past weeks I found myself in ‘fixed relationship mode’ while interacting with her due to my embarrassment about how I opened up and reached out to her without much reciprocal interest. One form of that ‘fixed relationship’ included being ‘overly outgoing’ toward her to try to avoid the impression I resented her. Another form was being overly happy and energetic with other coworkers in order to avoid the impression that I was still attached and expecting something from her. Another one was acting like “I’m just here to work” so that I could feign disinterest and avoid further rejection. I didn’t really plan to act those ways, but something would usually trigger defensiveness that led to me picking up one of those narratives in the moment. For example I’d notice her being very affectionate toward someone and think to myself ‘she’s doing that to show me that it wasn’t anything special when she did that to me’. Whether that paranoid thought had any truth to it or not I was putting myself into a position of distance between she and I.

All of these weren’t really an authentic expression of myself and I also ended up being blind to her expression of herself. Taking a more ‘letting go of control’ approach I was essentially just there with an intention to be friendly and an interest in intimacy, even if it would be intimacy with her expressing disinterest. I ended up having some lovely moments of talking with her where it seemed like she felt truly comfortable again for the first time in the last month of us interacting together. It’s not quite that I had no agenda, but my agenda was very ingenuous. Plus my agenda did not expect something. I was seeking to end the distance between she and I but only from my end. This experience feels like a good flagpole for me right now. Keep seeking that type of experience with anyone I come across.

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That’s cool! I’ve been going through something similar recently with regards to the ‘ongoing narrative’ I was going to write about it in my journal when I get a chance. But in short it’s a similar discovery to what you have made, that as the narrative is progressively abandoned there is progressively something more fresh, original and authentic that happens. It eventually carries all the way through into actuality, which is never a narrative, it is always fresh. What Richards writes that’s this moment is ever fresh, dependable in its originality and reliable in its uniqueness is the perfect way to describe it. And ‘I’ as identity am that huge narrative that can be removed. I was so pleased when I started experiencing this, the fact that this moment is forever unique is so incredible and so freeing, there is just no need for ‘me’ to have any plans and schemes because they can never quite match this originality. The narrative is always out of whack to what is actually happening now so what is the need for it? The need seems to do with ‘my’ desperate need for security via control, but this can be done away with.

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It’s quite fun as well to look at the word narrative. Just as a belief will never be a fact, if it had actual existence it would be called a fact and not a belief.

In the same way a narrative can never be current to what is happening, otherwise it wouldn’t be called a narrative. In order to have any narrative at all I need to remove myself from that which is actually happening, that which is current. But why would I ever need a narrative when I can have that which is actual? The narrative is always in 2nd place by the very nature of being a narrative. So if I want to live in the optimal of course I want to go for the actual, because then whatever my response is is correct to what is currently taking place and not to something that is forever 1 step removed. Playing the game of narrative is always having to catch up and adjust the forever shifting structure of ‘my’ life. And still it never hits the target! And it can never hit the target.

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Cool insight!

The narrative is also many steps ahead too, pasting imaginary outcomes on what it happening.

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September report:

Going to focus in on one particular aspect of what has been happening with me. I’ve been noticing how there can arise a lot of sadness and longing for connection with people. I’ve also noticed how the inclination to seek the end of distance between myself and others can be a sweet and pleasant ‘pull’. What exactly separates these things other than the obviously very different feeling of the experience?

Is it as simple as the bad feeling being about wanting them to ‘come to me’ vs the felicitous feeling is ‘me going to them’? The felicitous feeling is like leaning forward into the world of people and things. The bad feeling is withdrawing and wishing for it to happen.

I had a dream last night that I was sitting next to a person I desperately want more connection with. Her back was turned to me but she was intentionally staying close. I ‘knew’ if I tried to speak to her she would move away and break the tentative connection that was existing. This situation made me feel a really deep sorrow that persisted after waking up. It felt like an obvious metaphor for a real situation in my life and it felt very ‘true’.

Why am I not always ‘leaning forward’? The resistance to that is it feels like a compromise and an attempt to suppress or forget about what i ‘really want’. In that dream there was no doubt what I really wanted. Can I get what ‘i really want’ without the cooperation of others? Can I find that quality of intimacy and safety not dependent on them liking me and being interested in me?

At the very least that quality of ‘leaning forward’ feels better than wishing for connection, but there that undercurrent of resistance.

edit: the act of ‘leaning forward’ feels very similar to this quote of Richard’s:

Given that it is, plainly and simply, always ‘my’ choice as to how ‘I’ experience this moment then the optimum manner in which to do so is, of course, sincerely/ naïvely.

Thus the part-sentence in that previous post of mine [quote] ‘and to be sincere is to be the key which unlocks naiveté’ [endquote] is worth expanding upon.

The operative words in that part-sentence are [quote] ‘… to be the key …’ [endquote] and with particular emphasis on the word ‘be’ (rather than ‘have’ for instance).

In other words, to be sincerity (not only have sincerity) is to be the key (not merely have the key) to be naiveté (not just have naiveté).

(Bear in mind that, at root, ‘I’ am ‘my’ feelings and ‘my’ feelings are ‘me’ and it will all become clear).

As there is something I have oft-times encouraged a fellow human being to try, in face-to-face interactions, which usually has the desired effect it is well worth detailing here:

Reach down inside of yourself intuitively (aka feeling it out) and go past the rather superficial emotions/ feelings (generally in the chest area) into the deeper, more profound passions/ feelings (generally in the solar plexus area) until you come to a place (generally about four-finger widths below the navel) where you intuitively feel you elementarily have existence as a feeling being (as in ‘me’ at the core of ‘my’ being … which is ‘being’ itself).

Now, having located ‘being’ itself, gently and tenderly sense out the area immediately below that (just above/just before and almost touching on the sex centre).

Here you will find yourself both likeable and liking (for here lies sincerity/ naiveté).

Here is where you can, finally, like yourself (very important) no matter what.

Here is the nearest a ‘self’ can get to innocence whilst remaining a ‘self’.

Here lies tenderness/ sweetness and togetherness/ closeness.

Here is where it is possible to be the key.

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Oh, that brings back uneasy memories of everyone diving for the “sweet spot” a decade ago.

Like some sort of guaranteed magic can happen if one can just feel that spot somewhere in front of the pubic bone!

Indeed, it was a factor in the multiple break ups in my last relationship that the “leaning forward” was mostly me. It is exhausting after a while, as we all know, we want someone to lean forward in return. It’s the reason we “lean forward” to begin with.

Or simply put, most relationships, whether romantic or social are a game of who gets the most for “free”.

I had a reoccurring dream over many decades of a similar nature. When I was young, teens and twenties, it was like what you described. I couldn’t talk to her, though there would be some closeness. As the years went by, and my general confidence in life increased (I assume this was the change) the dream morphed into more dynamic interactions with her.

One thing I read years ago about interpretation of dreams is the idea that all the characters in the dream are actually you. They aren’t about other people at all.

That has certainly, if nothing else, discouraged me believing any fantasies about the dream indicating some “we are meant to be” story.

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Exactly. It will exhaust you after a while, which you know from experience that the expectations of reciprocity are usually disappointed.

I got into the habit of reminding myself that it’s not true " I want love" in a general way, but I want it from specific people.

I am not “unloved” at all! The issue is I am not loved by the one’s I want to be loved by.

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Are you going to them the actually-existing body in this moment, or ‘them’ the imagined identity?

In a dream it’s always an imagined ‘being’… and as @Andrew refers, it’s ‘me’ doing the imagining. It’s a projection

Going toward a projection = more projection, disappointment, etc

Going toward the actual = solidity, enjoyment, peace

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@hunterad

I think it’s great by the way that you aren’t sitting on your bum theorising about the connection you want.

Or hiding it from yourself or this forum.

Exploring what one wants is a birthright.

Pretending, or pasting actualist sounding thoughts over what one wants, is a fool’s errand.

Experiencing and exploring first hand, simply makes sense. Obviously, there can be good advice along the way, and making and sharing discoveries is half the fun.

The point I was making about, in your case, “wanting a connection” is about avoiding a victim mentality in it all.

In my experience, it’s not some general “connection” being desired, but connection with specific people, or types of people, or people in types of situations. Whether that is intelligent ones, socially adept ones, attractive ones, or even the opposite direction of those who otherwise see us as that, or whatever mix of any number of variables. One may want people who look up to us, one may want to be generally liked by everyone.

It’s like that cruise ship job that Richard says cured his fear of public speaking. Just getting out there and doing something about one’s wants, is a better solution than being afraid of doing it and justifying not trying.

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Oh, that brings back uneasy memories of everyone diving for the “sweet spot” a decade ago.

Like some sort of guaranteed magic can happen if one can just feel that spot somewhere in front of the pubic bone!

yea i remember that. i do think it can be valuable though as a way of locating one’s sincerity, basically finding in oneself where one just wants happiness and harmlessness prior to all of the ideas we have formed about where and how to seek it. I think like a lot of things that it can be corrupted if it’s done with the wrong goal in mind.

Indeed, it was a factor in the multiple break ups in my last relationship that the “leaning forward” was mostly me. It is exhausting after a while, as we all know, we want someone to lean forward in return. It’s the reason we “lean forward” to begin with.

Or simply put, most relationships, whether romantic or social are a game of who gets the most for “free”.

Hmm yea, would you agree though that the ‘leaning forward’ is a reward in and of itself? And that the experience of winning where the other person is doing it while you don’t is a ‘victory’ that isn’t necessarily pleasant? This is the hypothesis I’m testing currently.

I had a reoccurring dream over many decades of a similar nature. When I was young, teens and twenties, it was like what you described. I couldn’t talk to her, though there would be some closeness. As the years went by, and my general confidence in life increased (I assume this was the change) the dream morphed into more dynamic interactions with her.

One thing I read years ago about interpretation of dreams is the idea that all the characters in the dream are actually you. They aren’t about other people at all.

That has certainly, if nothing else, discouraged me believing any fantasies about the dream indicating some “we are meant to be” story.

To clarify I am definitely not interpreting it as a ‘we are meant to be type of thing’. I see the dream as a visual image of what I’m wanting. And my question is how do I take this huge energy of desire and use it for sustainable happiness that isn’t based on the other person’s reciprocation.

Exactly. It will exhaust you after a while, which you know from experience that the expectations of reciprocity are usually disappointed.

Do you think it is inherently exhausting? I certainly have found moments of exhaustion but I am wondering if those are based on the act of ‘leaning forward’ vs. the expectation of reciprocation. Trying to understand if I can experience a more unconditional leaning forward that doesn’t take up energy.

I got into the habit of reminding myself that it’s not true " I want love" in a general way, but I want it from specific people.

I am not “unloved” at all! The issue is I am not loved by the one’s I want to be loved by.

This is a great point and it hits home. I think I have told myself this ‘story’ a couple times and not caught myself.

I think it’s great by the way that you aren’t sitting on your bum theorising about the connection you want.

Or hiding it from yourself or this forum.

Exploring what one wants is a birthright.

Pretending, or pasting actualist sounding thoughts over what one wants, is a fool’s errand.

Cheers, I am very much over the phase of trying to sound ‘right’. I’m exploring from where I actually am, starting with the desires I actually have. That’s where my actual passionate energy is, so I think I have to start from there if I want to achieve actual feelings of happiness and harmlessness rather than a theory about why I should be happy and harmless (which is mostly what I’ve ‘accomplished’ before)

The point I was making about, in your case, “wanting a connection” is about avoiding a victim mentality in it all.

In my experience, it’s not some general “connection” being desired, but connection with specific people, or types of people, or people in types of situations. Whether that is intelligent ones, socially adept ones, attractive ones, or even the opposite direction of those who otherwise see us as that, or whatever mix of any number of variables. One may want people who look up to us, one may want to be generally liked by everyone.

Yea I am cognizant of the temptation of the self-pitying mentality here. And to clarify that dream I referred to was about a single particular person.

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Are you going to them the actually-existing body in this moment, or ‘them’ the imagined identity?

In a dream it’s always an imagined ‘being’… and as @Andrew refers, it’s ‘me’ doing the imagining. It’s a projection

Going toward a projection = more projection, disappointment, etc

Going toward the actual = solidity, enjoyment, peace

This is interesting… I think I ultimately only have access to the projection at the moment. But how do I make progress? I think there is a curiosity about who they actually are, a willingness to be surprised and an interest in discovering. and that feels like moving closer to the actual. I’m looking for something outside of myself rather than an idealization that comes from me. Something actually existing, I think it’s in the right direction.

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I like the hypothesis. It reminds me of the “life of the party” types of friends and especially bosses, and also people I have heard of but not met.

As a natural introvert, a deep thinker, I find it exhausting in romantic relationships. However, I must say I find it relatively easy and energetic in general social settings. I guess because I don’t expect people to reciprocate. It’s sort of a “flex” . I enjoy my own skill, or even simply being unaffected by whether people reciprocate.

However, there is a 46 year old guy saying this. One who had to lead, do business, work his arse of selling himself for everything from repairing a little old ladies ceiling (I spent years climbing through dust and dodging “redback” spiders) to selling myself in corporate settings going for the “big bucks” .

It was very instructive to me a few weeks back to be a wingman for a very attractive, tall guy. I bring that up, simply because it challenged my assumptions about social skill/vibes and physical attractiveness.

Although he has no issues finding sexual partners, I took note that he wasn’t “turning heads”. I have seen an attractive guy turn heads, who wasn’t as attractive. The difference was the vibe.

Short of turning this into dating advice, and where I am going with this post, is I agree it’s definitely worth exploring this idea a “leaning in” without the expectations of reciprocity.

It almost the definition of social skill really. One can enjoy being unaffected by the insecurity of others, secure in one’s enjoyment of oneself.

In theory, but somewhat anecdotally supported in my experience.

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Thinking more about it;

One becomes someone who creates the vibe of connection. Others will enjoy it, but rarely are capable of it. The being unaffected by their lack of similar skills, comes down to knowing that it was me who created it to start with.

If one remains yearning for connection, then there’s the natural despising of the other when they don’t reciprocate. If one stays “within oneself” otherwise enjoying the vibe of connection that one’s own skill created, for one’s own enjoyment, then that animosity doesn’t happen.

Sorta like caring for goldfish. They aren’t going to do anything but exist, however one enjoys the sounds and sights, whatever interesting things might be said. Now and then, one will encounter someone where the experience is naturally reciprocal, that personal space of just enjoying one’s own skill, all of a sudden has a playful other come into it. It’s sorta rare though. Mostly one just sets the standard of enjoying it alone.

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October Report

Things have been mostly pretty amazing this month. Wow a lot has happened. I’ve started finding it surprisingly easy to have intimate interactions with most people I come across though there are still lots of moments where I lose sincerity and naivete and things are less nice. I’ve been having moments of ‘this is too good to be true’ but things have been consistent enough that I think I’m really on to something.

I also started dating a girl and having really sweet intimate conversations with her that are really rewarding. Just starting to explore some physical intimacy but it seems like as long as I am exploring that with the same intention and attitude that I am exploring the mental intimacy it doesn’t pose a threat (which I have often worried it could).

I also started really heavily focusing on deconstructing my masculinity a bit. I went to the rocky horror picture show and dressed in drag which I really enjoyed. Also I have started changing some of my mannerisms to indicate a higher level of approachability and friendliness. Smiling at people more, taking care of my appearance, being more expressive when people do something that I appreciate.

Recently posted a question to Srinath about how to parse out whether intentions are coming from social identity and instincts or from naive, harmless simple preference. Unsurprisingly his answer was to choose happiness and harmlessness each moment again.

I am finding that the way to stay on track is never going to be a thought out answer about a technique to choose the right actions or something. That’s what the social identity wants because that’s how it operates. The answer is going to be choosing a way to feel that brings me as close as possible to the actual world and to pure intent and things spontaneously flow from there.

The area where this currently concerns me most is when my sincere naive self seems to want to talk with women in a naive/intimate way even if they are in a relationship. Really I want to talk to everyone that way but I am finding it easier with women (that’s new!).

I’m fearing that I am being harmful and then retreat into moral/social identity decisions about right and wrong. Best guess for now is to have confidence in my experience that my naive and sincere self will stop short of causing harm without the need for the social identity to take back over and make me withdraw.

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November report:

Been sick for a couple weeks, and wasn’t able to maintain my felicitous streak during this time. Weather has also been bad, so two ready made excuses, but I’ll focus on what I can control. I know that these external circumstances aren’t the real issue.

I think I just lost my ‘nerve’ in a sense to keep living on the cutting edge of spontaneity. I’ve written about how when things are going well I seem to be almost unable to predict my own actions. Like I tap into certain ‘flow of naivete’ and my words and actions seem to come automatically. I feel unguarded and safe and life begins feeling like a ‘breeze’.

Given my social identity’s makeup these words and actions seem more intimate, playful, and outgoing than is my norm. I ended up losing track of this ‘flow of naivete’ and started thinking in terms of how I should act.

Part of that was that ‘I should act spontaneous, outgoing, playful etc.’ but because that impulse was being ‘dictated’ rather than arising organically it never happened in a way that felt happy and harmless. For example I would find myself trying to only say things that were sufficiently ‘playful’ and ended up being kinda silent. Plus I was judging other people for being ‘boring’.

I was also dictating caution with certain things, trying to keep myself safe. In moments where I get back to genuineness I see how much this impulse interferes with felicity and innocuity.

I have been finding success by focusing on how I am experiencing and not trying to dictate how that should look from the outside. It is experienced as staying with an apprehensiveness rather than avoiding that fear through a ‘predetermined path’ of knowing what I should do. I find I am on track when I start to feel naked and slightly embarrassed and like what happens next will be a mystery.

I can recognize this feeling from childhood and it would often lead to seeking ‘authority’ as in knowing what I should do, what’s right or wrong. It also is associated with wanting to ‘grow up’ and be an ‘adult’.

This can transform to feeling life to be safe and fascinating, like many paths are available and they are all both interesting and free of real danger.

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Awesome!