Enjoying with senses vs feelings

Do you mean you don’t understand?

No dear henryyyyyyy

I understand, but I want to “not forget” :sweat_smile:

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That’s what pure intent is for - which is what having the PCE is for :slight_smile:

You’re on the right track!!

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Thanks henryyyy ( miguel, cluadiu, kuba, and others)
for your support, it is great to be part of this community, working
toward evolution of human consciousness :appreciation:

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Wow dear henryyyyyy.

You should know how wonderful your encouragements and support have been for me,
I can thank you enough.

wish you much success on your way to actual freedom.

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Whatever it takes! We’re on this adventure together :raised_hands:t2:

I, FrankN, just saw below quotes that I copy pasted

It’s ( HAIETMOBA )the first step and the last step of dismantling beliefs. It’s the questioning of the very the existence of yourself - which is really the ultimate belief that we’re all trying to get to the bottom of here.
--------------------------------
Feeling good was seeming hard to maintain (and seeming to require ‘me’ to be involved all the time checking up on myself and getting myself back on the horse every other minute) Then I read an old post from geoffrey (I’ll comment it) saying when things were seeming too hard it was usually cause he was looking at his feet.
Ive started allowing sensuosity back in the mix and now that my feeling good is more steady, this is working in a very delightful way. My feeling good doesn’t collapse into itself every second, because the sensuosness is a perpetuation of enjoyment and appreciation visually (and a de-centering of or distraction from identity). It’s like I can keep maintain feeling good just by virtue of keeping this certain way of looking at the world. If feelings do come up, the gentle application of sensuousness interrupts it immediately and puts me right back on track.The right amount of feeling good and the right amount of sensuousness bring everything into colourful, eye-candy focus and then it’s just easy as and throughly relaxing/fun. This really reminds of Srinath’s writen .

I think it’s helpful to talk about application of the method. I’ve been having more success recently with the method than ever before, due to a combination of factors:

  1. Intent
    Without this, there’s no getting off the ground. I always keep in mind that the method is meant to be easy, and if it’s not, surely intent is lacking. So whenever I begin struggling I backtrack and sincerely ramp up my intent by asking whether I want to feel good, whether I want to be happy and harmless. If not, why not?

  2. Current time awareness
    Contemplating that this is my only moment of being alive sometimes results in a realization of that fact. And then it’s easy to feel good. It makes sense. Why would I choose to feel bad when this is my only moment?

  3. Sensuousness
    Once I feel good, this is what keeps it going. Cultivating naiveté and wonder, looking around at things. Without feeling good though, this becomes a rather dissociative exercise. I’ve found that the successful application of the method hinges on seeing the “choice” to feel good now when trapped in an emotional prison of bad feelings or feeling neutral. It has to make sense to me to feel good now.
    To add more about my application of the method, I struggled for many months with increasing frustration at my inability to apply the method. I took this frustration more and more seriously. What helped me break out of this bind was seeing that ‘I’ am my feelings and ‘my’ feelings are ‘me’. That is, during my struggles, these feelings of frustration and anger were happening to me. I considered them an external force which is sabotaging my application of the method. But then I chose to repeatedly ask whether it is really me who is choosing to feel angry and frustrated. As it became increasingly clear that I was making that choice deep down, I began to see how silly it was. Why am I feeling bad about feeling bad? Isn’t it so silly?! I still fall into it sometimes, but once I see that it is I who is choosing to be angry, the feeling is easy to deal with.
    Finally taking ownership of my feelings is also allowing me to be more sincere. Previously I would search for some trick to get back to feeling good, which is basically repression. But now I see that if I’m feeling bad, it’s because I’m choosing to do so. I believe it’s sensible. Then I can tackle it head on. No hiding from myself.

I like this a lot. I do think sensuousness has to include some temporal awarwness…i.e. it’s always now. If not, it devolves into (mindfulness + a pleasant hedonic tone.

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Richard:

it is about allowing the “fascination that it is this moment” to set in such that you are “once more enjoying life”… at which point one is free to experience the trees in however manner one pleases, whether there is watching of trees or cleaning of shitty toilet, it doesn’t take away from this perfection of being alive in the first place. and it occurs solely by virtue of being vitally alive – being dynamically here – at this particular place – in infinite space – at this very moment in eternal time – as a sensuous, reflective flesh-and-blood body only – and thus dependent upon no one, no thing, and no event.

Richard means when he writes that living in actual freedom is to experience everything as happening for the first time. It is impossible to get bored even if doing the same activity over and over because this moment has never happened before, that is my understanding at least :slightly_smiling_face:

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  • Written by an Actualist:

The method is to see the silliness of feeling bad … this is predicated and vitally dependent upon first seeing that this is my only moment of being alive. The reason it is silly to feel bad is because this is my only moment of being alive… and it is silly to fritter it away feeling when life is by ‘default’ inherently enjoyable (like in a PCE)
So it is the knowledge of the unconditional enjoyment that informs me of the silliness of the feeling bad - and then i am feeling good again, enjoying simply being alive.
And then the experience of the conditional is completely transformed - from a bad experience to a good one.
Eg I ask myself how I’m experiencing this moment of being alive … the answer is I am feeling stressed about work because I have a lot of things that need doing. This is now felt fully as opposed to in the background , not hiding anymore… all coping mechanisms cease (like trying to enjoy making a coffee to relax). So then for me the flavor of what is possible hoves into view … this is my only moment of being alive … not any future one that may involve work. Isn’t it silly to waste this moment stressing about some other moment? Yes, yes it is … now a delight starts to surface and a joy and wonder resurfaces. Now I am enjoying being alive The issue is not resolved though , and resurfaces … so now the analysis and contemplation comes in to have it not repeatedly bring me down. This will be a ongoing process until it’s fully resolved.

It’s just not part of the ‘real world’ that it’s possible to always feel good. If you talk with people about it you will see that they don’t even consider the possibility. They will either feel they have to feel bad when something bad happens, or that they would be psychopath or uncaring or robots etc if they don’t feel bad, or they even say that they want to feel bad so that feeling good can be good by comparison! But once you see that by ‘default’ - with no identity messing things up - is inherent enjoyment of being alive, then that completely removes any such excuses as being reasons to feel bad…So the unconditional is what informs that “I don’t have to” keep feeling bad… this is how it is for me anyway

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Written by an Actualist:
LOL I just caught myself trying to be a ‘good actualist’.I became aware of a sort of ‘uneasiness’ feeling while watching tv. On investigation it seemed to be a feeling of guilt – I ‘should’ be doing something. What I discovered was the belief that a ‘good actualist’ should spend all their time trying to become actually free. Of course, what a sincere actualist would be doing is enjoying and appreciating watching the tv (or whatever they might be doing as has been discussed recently).
HoracefromtheForest 11:47 AM
@alan I think a good actualist should spend this time trying to be actually free. Personally. I may not want to be a good actualist at this moment. But if I did then I’d hold close to the PCE. And if I didn’t then I forget about it and enjoy being something else.

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What do you reckon the main difference is between the people who have managed to become free and those who haven’t

Written by an Actualist:

I think ultimately it must boil down to a willingness to go all the way. It seems every person who has become free has the same opinion that without a doubt everyone can become free if they so choose. It reminds me a little. If one has a sincere intent, determination and persistance to go all the way and demonstrates it with daily action then how can it go wrong.**

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Written by an Actualist:
Later on I started thinking about Richards statement that no one is in charge of the universe and this finally clicked like it never has before. I could see that all those values of good and bad are simply taken on at a young age and made into an ultimate authority. However they have no actual existence or power, their power exists only because I sold out my own intelligence and my own individuality when I became a group member. Now this is where things got interesting. Because seeing that no one is in charge of the universe means I am free to live my life however I wish BUT because I live in a perfect universe, I only want what is the best for everyone concerned. This is the closest I have come to understanding what pure intent is. This universe is somehow arranged in a way where each and every person is free to do as they wish and yet when living this perfection one can only want the best, to live in harmony with others and with oneself. I was thinking about how I have always riled against this universe and yet this universe is actually the best ‘set up’ possible. The other thing that clicked shortly after that was what it means to actually want to be here and how I have been instinctually programmed and then socialised to resent being here. I was driving home at one point taking in the scenery, it was just delicious to look at the trees and the extraordinary detail of everything all around, all the while connected to the inherent perfection of this universe and it happened, I actually wanted to be here now, I saw straight away that this is all I have ever wanted for myself and others, to be here free of malice and sorrow, living in peace and harmony, and how could I resent such a perfect situation!

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Written by an Actualist:
Yes I would say so for sure. In fact it’s something I’ve been looking at lately how ‘caring’ in the real world sense is basically worrying, controlling, fantasizing, scheming etc and how the choice to enjoy and appreciate requires me to put this down so that I can pick up enjoyment and appreciation. For me personally ‘caring’ might as well go synonymous with worrying so yeah in order to enjoy and appreciate I stop ‘caring’ about life essentially going according to ‘my’ preconceived values and beliefs and allow enjoyment and appreciation of this moment of being alive.

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Written by an Actualist:

"Things are becoming quite weird, in a good way. Hard to say what’s changed- it’s almost like I’ve kicked the legs out from under the “seeker/tryer/analyser” identity - and am able to be extremely aware of this moment of being alive, especially as it relates to me as my feelings. Finally not pushing away the feelings that come up. This has had a strong impact on visual perception - almost like I’ve taken a drug - the lack of distortion in the visual field is almost hard to take in its immediacy/piquancy. This is different from the experience six weeks ago - that was all about ME feeling better and better- like getting high on my own supply in a way haha. Whereas this is much much much more anonymous, like I’m getting thinner and thinner. On the plane as it took off I had some anxiety as I always tend to do with flights. As the trip went on I just kept being aware of this moment, for basically the whole 2.5 hour flight. By the time we were due to land I was watching outside my window in wonder - but not the wonder I have expected from reading the words, which is all about my reaction. There was a tilt shift effect and its kind of hard to describe - there wasn’t any reactivity in me, except a kind of anonymous delight with everything being experienced instantaneously. I watched intently the way the plane made its descent, each moment of technical engineering clicking into place perfectly, and felt the various forces impacting the plane, and drank in the incredible landscapes - but most strangely of all felt no fear whatsoever. "(Later)"Experiencing the actualist sensuosity for the first time. Not even sure how its happening and why it wasn’t happening before. Its almost like going to sleep in a way as geoffrey said to me once, but at the same time there is an aspect of being more awake and alive than ever before…the delish colours and movements and sounds of the world. Bubbles dancing in my coke. The ease of just being here It is the most obvious thing in the world to just ride the crest of this wave which this moment is.
it’s almost like I’ve kicked the legs out from under the “seeker/tryer/analyser” identity - and am able to be extremely aware of this moment of being alive .
Every time someone writes something like this, I notice how much more (the rest of the time) the “seekers/tryers/analysers” are the ones engaged in talking/writing about AF rather than experiencing being “aware of this moment of being alive” (and talking/writing from/about that state).
Examples of this might be frustration when trying isn’t getting oneself anywhere, or a feeling of anxiety around analysing (“what if i cant figure things out”) etc - which isn’t being picked up on because it comes under actualist identity. Another thing was that I was not experiencing my emotions fully in general (as in 'I am my feelings and my feelings are me), because I was always separating myself from them by identifying as the tryer or seeker or analyser who was trying to overcome them. I write a lot, and im sure a good portion of it isnt useful per se, but i find reflecting on the process helpful - like refining the method according to what works and doesn’t work, figuring out what is standing in my way and what isn’t, or even being able to remember what got me back to feeling good. I dont see actualism as a set of rules that one can just blindly follow and it will all work seamlessly - it’s more complicated than that to actually implement that stuff - so self can dismantle self. Its a personal battle through the psychic maze, that one is alone in, aside from some wisdom from the occasional sherpa

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Written by an Actualist:

If you regard eaatomoba as complicated then I think you are complicating it. It’s not easy but it is simple. Set the table by allowing yourself to feel good (neutral first then good is my current way).
After that let the grandeur of the universe come to you.How to maintain this isn’t a question because the answer is choice. We chose to disregard this moment. And why we make that choice has a simple answer, It’s because we, the self, evolved to create conflict. All of which can be seen clearly while feeling good and letting the mind reflect on these things when it wants to do so. Just like it will reflect on other questions when it wants to do so.
Often the mind will use that question or another to back away from this moment. We will often turn a potentially fruitful contemplation into a stressful quest. And we’re no longer eaatomoba. Because conflict is our essence. So with attentiveness we recognize we have begun to feel uptight again and we stop. Then we allow ourselves to feel neutral then good and then back to eaatomoba until we, once again, find ourselves back to some conflict. Repeat. (edited)

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Written by an Actualist:

I remember geoffrey at the start of my actualism telling me feeling good isn’t about “force of will”, but rather wanting it “with all of one’s being”. At the time I just glossed over that (“ok, whatever that means…”). But on that day I kind of did that.
Today I experienced feeling good way beyond my normal level. So good its almost not possible to try and describe it. It makes me question everything that has happened in the past year (what I was calling excellent all this time was not excellent), because this was incredible compared to normal, like “did i accidentally take MDMA?” levels of good.
I remembered Richard saying in the Questions to R&V that enjoying and appreciating is what cements feeling good, and that came to mind. I mean…all this time I thought I have been doing this, but today it was different - today it was like it was my one mission in life to genuinely enjoy and appreciate without thought of outcome, for the good of myself and everyone on the planet who feels malice and sorrow. I have never had that sense of impetus before, and it caused me to finally go boots and all into this. And the results, well, its hard to even describe how it developed. But all that joie de vivre, luscious abandon, amazement at the fun of it all stuff- i finally experienced it! The words on the website actually refer to something experience-able. I see now on some level at least i didn’t believe that. But its really possible! I can’t believe it . I could totally endorse being alive, and each further leaning into this appreciation perpetuated the “continuing benediction”.
At a certain point it did turn into gratitude and I got a bit teary in a happy way (Richard has written somewhere about this typical reaction of the identity saying “why am I so lucky that this this happening to me” ).
Eventually I got triggered all the way from excellence to feeling normal again by the end of the day, but man…I am a man on a mission now!
This experience really changed my idea of what the words on the actual freedom website mean. Sure I had read about affective energy, feeling good etc but I guess my versions of those were very low key. This was something very very…heightened. Like what I guess a peak experience is meant to be. But it was also so different from what I thought I was supposed to be doing. I think I have spent so many days, hours, weeks of the last year basically trying to focus on sensuosity whilst only feeling neutral, and it not getting me at all far.Also, since that day - I haven’t even tried to go back there since, it’s almost like I forgot about it or can’t remember it clearly. I guess it just took me by total surprise as that experience doesn’t fit in with what I have been conceiving actualism to be about all this time. Basically I have thought about actualism about being all about sensuosness but this experience was so so affective, in a good way (akin to taking mdma or something). I know everything was experienced as amazing, even travelling inside an elevator, with life definitely living me (though can barely viscerally remember what the experience was like).My question, specifically to geoffrey and srinathjelly - if you don’t mind reading that post I quoted - is that sounding familiar as to the right way to go about a peak experience? Like in the right ballpark? Specifically the fact of it being soooo affective, compared to some sort of clean/pristine/static magic eye visual thing as I was expecting.I remember every breath was like a benediction - just plain being alive (in that very moment) was perceived as incredibly enjoyable even though I was just sitting at my desk at work. I felt almost perfect, so at perfect place within the world- and yeah at times this turned into gratitude/“this shouldn’t be possible etc!”/why have I been blessed like this? etc. So would call it an EE maybe teetering on being an ASC. I remember thinking afterwards - “the usual mix of up and down feelings humans generally have doesn’t make any sense at all”. Like AT ALL. If you guys tell me that that report sounds like the right direction, then I will tell you that that one day is basically the only day I have done actualism “right”. Its not what I’ve been doing all this time (which would explain my generally neutral mood and lack of pces), and not what I was expecting. It’s the only thing I’ve done which has really gone anywhere, and somewhere really extraordinary.But it wasn’t like - “oh I looked at the bubbles in the washing up and the soap suds looked amazing and everything looked magical”. I was so caught up in how incredibly good and well I felt, and was not applying any of my usual efforts to experience sensuosity or “see the magic in the soap suds”. Hence my asking you guys for confirmation…!

5/8/2021 5:14 PM

Written by an Actualist:

Yes, its the universe experiencing itself as this flesh and blood body and not through this flesh and blood body (edited)

5 posts were split to a new topic: Privacy Concerns Regarding Posts from the Slack

Thank you Claudiu

I just removed the names and instead the posts only refer to " Written by an Actualist ".

I think these posts can be very helpful to beginner actualist like myself .
Thanks for your forethoughts .

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Written by an actualist :

3/17/2021

Suddenly this method is working for me again. I feel consistently good, it seems very easy, and best of all, the world is starting to look like delicious eyecandy again. As everyone was witnessing me drowning only a few weeks back I’m gonna try to articulate what has worked and why I think why.First, feeling good is not (imo) about trying to jolly yourself into feeling some big great feeling. Like “let’s work myself into feeling a high”. No. Its more like an attitude adjustment I find, as basic as a decision to not be grumpy/moody. More akin to a good mood than a single good feeling. So its about being in a good mood, and keeping that good mood going longer and longer (tracing back/seeing the silliness when you realise enjoyment has diminished). It really is making the choice to feel good/enjoy this moment regardless of why you would usually not do so in whatever situation you might find yourself . Its very simple (he says, after a year of trying hahaha).

Second, naivete is absolutely essential. ESSENTIAL haha. It is the magic ingredient which defines the actualism method as something never done before and something quite extraordinary. I spent so many weeks and months cursing my existence recently, basically being resentful about being here, wanting to get out, disappointed I wasn’t experiencing the actual world etc. And the harder I fought the further I got away from naivete.

Embracing naivete has taken away all the pressure all the discouragement, all the cynicism. It allows me to feel good easily - feeling good becomes so clean and pure. And the world glitters and shines in a way that just seems impossible. Thirdly, , I would almost go as far to say that choosing naivete is absolutely as important as choosing to feel good. The two go hand in hand. When you are naive you can see your ‘self’ in all its cunning from a completely different vantage point. The intention to be harmless goes way up.Fourth, sincerity is so important on this journey and in me it is evidently still lacking somewhat. I see that clearly because now the method is working for me totally - I can no longer complain on that front. But still I detect a hesitancy - an addiction to staying like I am in certain situations and basically just retreading the same old patterns and tried and true ways. ‘I’ can’t even imagine what the unknown path is going to look like. In a way I can’t even see how I fit in to humanity or what it means for the world in terms of peace and harmony if I commit to this. It’s like I can only see my own life, and my own self, and no one else. Have I just flat out stopped caring about my fellow humans? Myself? There is a kind of indifference, a lack of taking responsibility, a lack of urgency - just safely staying on shore, basically chilling and enjoying some fringe eyecandy benefits of the actualism method. What is stopping me from committing with all of my being (not just parts of me) to the unknown path? (edited)

Answer: Feelings and beliefs. Such as…

  • A fear of loneliness around the idea of going down this path alone.

  • Not being able to imagine not existing so instead imagining a kind of dead existence.

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