Deliberate Naivete

So, i have been asking myself whether i am heading in the direction of being closer to a feeling of naivete in my interactions.

Something was obvious tonight when i was on a date with a woman. I was, in usual fashion, overly concerned about how she was feeling.

I don’t want a relationship, but i was keen to go in the direction of caring and getting to know this person who has a whole life, personality, and experience which is something i know (obviously) nothing about.

There is always that 1 in a million (?) chance of finding someone interested in actualism.

It seemed to me to have been a good thing to do. To have been open to finding out, whilst enjoying the company. Who really knows? I found out that her job is something that she feels will benefit the world and make it better. She teaches physics to teachers and is writing a new curriculum for schools. She genuinely enjoys it. Such a soft and gentle person.

Naivete doesn’t care about the dictates of reproductive desire, or how i feel about her. It predates desire, in childhood development. (presumably?). Either way, feeling naive with adult sensibility is a far better date!

Whilst my world has always centred around me, there is a way to include the other. To both think of me and think of the other. Sexual desire is the opposite of this. That’s all about me. Satisfying an urge. There is another gentle urge that can be satisfied, and that is the gentle hints that there is another way of being in this world with people.


Nice, this is the way to go. I very much relate to @Josef’s post today about his mood being tied to the ebbs and flows of the relationship. Naivete seems to be the break out of that.

I’m in a new relationship that’s gone cold and might end soon, I was contemplating on this and realized that no matter what I want and wish I can’t change how she feels about me or force her to feel something she doesn’t. When that sunk in there was a freedom in that; I don’t need to stress about controlling the relationship, what a relief! There’s also a confidence in knowing I can still be naive and feel good even if I end up single again.

It’s so much better to be naive: I’m being nice because I want to and not because I think it will get me what I want. I’m no longer hunting for sex. I’m interested in other humans. I’m curious what will happen next but without worrying about the outcome. I’m free to have fun.

So my aim is to try and make this my baseline (I notice there’s a scale here but that’s another topic). Not sure about the best way to achieve this but for now what I’m doing it to recognize when I’m becoming cunning, stressed and needy again and remembering that it is possible to be naive instead (recalling from memory) and intently moving back towards that space.


I remember that tapping into naivete in social situations was always difficult as a feeling being. 1:1 encounters were easier, but groups of friends were hard work and would often result in me feeling like I’d failed. There were some pleasant wins here and there though and I never did stop trying to maximise feeling happy and harmless in every social situation regardless of how difficult it was


I wanted to respond to this:

As my energy has shifted from needing-them-to-get-it, to a more naive I-don’t-know-what-will-happen, not afraid to say my piece, people have responded far differently, which has resulted in getting deeper into the details of actualism rather than getting ‘stuck’ in “I’m right/you’re wrong” fighting (as a dynamic involving both parties). This has meant that where in the past it would have been a dead-end/“I guess they’re not interested,” the likelihood of their own organic interest being triggered has increased considerably.

Even with that it’s a low number of people that will connect with it, but I can see that that component makes a huge difference.

Which does circle back to the naivete angle.

This has been my experience as well, I was able to feel most naive to begin with alone in nature, then I grew it in one on one encounters, then by myself not in nature, and now it is growing in group settings.

I think that varies depending on one’s predilections (some feel the most happy in groups), but either way there is in my experience another setting where the naivete has the most growth potential.

@Andrew @solvann We may be somewhat synced up on this issue, as I made a major naivete-related breakthrough with my partner yesterday. Here is a link to the write-up:


I noticed some people are much more open and receptive to naïveté , while others seem to gleefully shut it down at catching the faintest whiff of it. I would just be sensitive to and perceptive of the people in the group and choose where to express naïveté. I also find it easier one on one also but it might just be because the people receptive to it are fewer so you’re less likely to get a full group conducive to it.

“express” (by onseself) and “receptive” (by others) confuse/intrigue me, because so far it was stated the intention “to be closer to a feeling of naivete”, “be naive”, “tapping into naivete”, “feel most naive”, etc.

Your considerations about where to express naivete and how receptive those present are, seem to indicate that you are looking at naivete from another angle. Is that so?

Humm good catch! Indeed so.

What I’m getting at is that feeling or being naive is different from acting naive or expressing naïveté. You can be naive without expressing it.

The natural tendency when being naive is to want to express it. But in the wrong group or setting you just get shut down or made fun of etc. so it feels bad and then you don’t wanna do it anymore etc.

So my advice is to not do this expressing of it unless the setting or group is receptive to it. And then it can be great fun for everyone m. And if they aren’t then I suggest being naive without outwardly expressing it - it will still be fun, if only for yourself :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:. And you avoid the getting shut down aspect of it.


To me this has the same character as, “you can be perfectly happy at a funeral while keeping a somber expression, befitting the situation.”

I had a naivete-experience around a month ago where I found myself cheerfully rocking side-to-side, I felt like a happy little four-year-old.

In some social settings, people would find that extremely odd. But, the naivete itself can be there regardless.

I had a fair amount of success at the end of year, last day bbq.

Due to having gotten drunk and in a emotional situation with the directors after the official end of year party, (i had cried openly in front of them after almost quitting when arguing with them… Longish story), i had become far more myself in situations at work, and there was that trust which comes when men go through some fire together.

The feeling of naivete, along with being far more comfortable in areas of attraction / repulsion which otherwise would have previously had me protecting myself, i was easily able to joke and play with the whole group as we sat at the back of the building under the patio.

Naivete is a super power.

It’s strangely linked to the disgust realisations for last week.

When there is naivete, the people (in my case especially women) i would not have found attractive, are suddenly attractive. There is the simple and plain fact that i am male, and they are female and we could have fun together sexually if we chose to.

The diminishment of my social identity is somewhat paradoxical here.

I remember how much better, in a narcissistic way, i felt about myself when my partner is objectively beautiful. How much worse i felt, narcissistically speaking, when my partner is not as attractive, or average.

Naivete blows all that away.

I am whatever i am, and the difference i see in how people reacted to me at the party was night and day.

When i was previously denying the feeling of disgust, i was cut off from half or more of the world. Recognition of the experience of naivete is golden.

People are these interesting things. Women are what they are. Not extensions of my social identity. Things to acquire to be someone. To avoid, to not be unattractive as they may be. But people. People i could have fun with at many levels. From philosophical ponderings, to the bedroom if that was a sensible option.

The owner, who is an interesting man to say the least, was so much more open with me. There is as @claudiu says, those who are open to Naivete, and those more closed.

There are some who will come out to play, and those less inclined.


Operation Get Out of Narcissism in Naivete™ .

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This deliberate Naivete is working. I am using @JonnyPitt s “facts” as the touchstone at the moment.

It is always now. This is where life is happening.


Only in so far as we do not have context of what is truly powerful in a group setting.

A naivete with adult sensibility, with a cheeky sense of fun, and a avoidance of needing validation, is the pinnacle of social interaction.

One can seem to be hugely “up one’s self” to be so bold as to be enjoying naivete in society. I actually have a boss (there are 3 joint directors) who is a master of playfulness. It’s both wildly engaging, and hugely intimidating. He happens to be a very good looking, tall, well built man. The combination is extraordinary.

At the same time, there is a supervisor (who runs the building sites) who is short and less attractive, but also exudes this charming, and playful personality.

Naivete is not really Naivete™.

In the real world, those who have a good dose of it are very attractive. Those who want to put others down for it, can make one feel bad, but it’s for me more the repulsion of the shit they are wallowing in being so “grown up”.


I should say “grown up and narcissistic as to believe putting me down makes them ‘someone’”

Ahhh I’m glad to hear this! Maybe now it clicks for you more that the simple factual nature of attraction (a simple yes or no) isn’t as “brutal” as you thought?

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I wouldn’t call it powerful. Power means you have power over someone, as in ability to control and manipulate them. The goal of power is to get people to do what you want, to benefit you in some way.

Naïveté naturally lends itself to being likable and liking. People (certain people - maybe most?) will like you more if you are naive. And everyone will have a lot more fun. But the fun isn’t a way to get people to do what you want. The fun is an aim in and of itself.

If your goal is to get people to like you then naïveté can get you there, but building an identity around being liked, is going to spoil the naivete. It works contrary to it. And not in any mystical you-can’t-be-liked-if-you-want-to-be-liked… it just spoils the simplicity of it.

You can humorously say naïveté gives you the “power” to make people have fun. But it would be a joking way of putting it. I would say more that naïveté is conducive to people having fun. It’s like Peter saying he made it his goal to seduce people into being happy and harmless - it’s a bit of a joking way to put it.

To revise what I said earlier about most people not being receptive to naïveté … I would say most people just want to be entertained and have fun. But there’s certain naive thoughts - like about how simple life is, how wonderful a time it is to be alive - which, if expressed, I think most , or at least many, people will have a tendency to want to shut down. But not sure now. Maybe a party setting helps :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:. Anyway best to experiment and try for yourselves and see!