Contemplating self-immolation

So the last few days have been really interesting for me. Since the PCE I have been in a weird in-between. On one hand the couple of days after the PCE my days were almost like an ongoing excellence experience, like I was on the verge of entering a PCE at all times. The world was magical and ‘I’ was so minimised as to almost be insignificant, definitely causing very little trouble of any kind. I was working in York on Saturday which is a popular tourist city in England and I was walking through the little cobbled streets in wide eyed wonder, I remember thinking to myself that this is as if I am in a scene from lord of the rings and I am taking a stroll through middle earth haha.
There was a very significant sense of all vibes being minimised or not in play at all. I couldn’t feel people out but instead I was experiencing them directly along with the sights and smells of the surroundings. Everything had that magical, fairytale like quality.

On the other hand I have been stuck in a fear fuelled drama about my physical death which comes and goes in intervals along with that experience of excellence. I have had a few illnesses lately, nothing actually serious however I have been blowing it out of proportion and convincing myself that I am dying and that I will physically die before becoming actually free.
It is all really bizarre because it is ‘me’ being afraid of dying before becoming free and yet ‘I’ have to die anyway in order for this body to be actually free.
This I can see pretty well from that ‘observation from a PCE’ that I wrote about. I can see that it is really the end of the road for ‘me’, complete extinction. I can see that ‘I’ never get to complete ‘my’ quest then taste the fruits of ‘my’ labour. Because that place exists where there is no ‘me’ and in order for self-immolation to happen ‘I’ need to become extinct, not just going into abeyance as in a PCE. ‘I’ cannot test the waters and see what actual freedom is like, to an extent that is possible via pure intent but not the irrevocable part, that seems to be the unknowable. The only way to know it is to already have disappeared into oblivion. It seems this is what pulled me back during the PCE, it was not so much fear of death but more an inability to comprehend/allow the irrevocable part, the part which ‘I’ cannot know in advance.

It’s crazy to look back on just how much I’ve gone over in the last year and a half, to have arrived at a place where it seems I am sincerely contemplating a possibility of self immolation. When I started this it was only possible as an intellectual exercise because I had to clean myself up first. I could not have been genuine about disappearing back then because I was too involved with the real world drama. It seems I had to get to this stable plateau of feeling good where a possibility of something else is now being contemplated as an actual possibility as opposed to a fantasy or just ‘wishing for it’.

Still it seems the most bizarre riddle to solve but things are happening for sure, things are shifting and I know I am moving towards that place that I have had glimpses of.

It seems for now the only thing I can do with this fear fuelled drama is to continue becoming aware of it and see exactly what it is all about then continue finding my way back to that magical wonderland.

Have you thought of focussing on the thrilling side of fear? That really helped me. Ride that into extinction. Yes, you do need to ‘die’ but it isn’t a glum affair. It is quite the show - to put it mildly :slightly_smiling_face:

Thanks @Srinath that’s helpful, somehow the advice to focus on the thrilling aspect of fear never appealed to me which is maybe why I would end up being stuck in the doom and gloom aspect of it.

But when you wrote :

That naturally led to an excitement in me, that I could do the most unthinkable and unimaginable thing, to actually do it, that is thrilling.


6 posts were split to a new topic: Actualism and Mental Illness

Maybe it’s time for another one of @Srinath’s metaphors :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: here’s mine - riding the fear into extinction like a surfer being propelled forward on the crest of the wave of thrilling momentum, with nothing to hold him back.

One part which immediately stands out to me when looking at fear and thrill is that when I am in the deciding/holding back part of something there is fear, when I find myself already doing the action there is only thrill. This seems key to this discussion. It’s like being terrified for a long time to approach a girl I like, then one day once I have finally decided to do it anyways, I find myself going over to her with only thrill happening in the moment. Because the decision has already been made, the controls have already been let go of, then there is only the doing which is the thrilling part.

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I got super close to succeeding yesterday.

Early in the day I saw that there is nothing left to do but to do it …

During a walk break from work , i was seeing that there is no security in being a ‘self’… this caused a noticeable change in my experiencing

Walking past a set of restaurant tables i experienced a burst of purity accompanied by amazingly fine visual acuity and my centre actually started shifting downward - my experiencing of ‘my’ center really ‘moved’ - and then I pulled away at the last moment !!!

Walking back to work I saw then that me and my entire life will disappear , won’t have ‘me’ to fall back on or this “comfortable anxiety” to wallow in as a cushion. This really will be the End of ‘me’ …

Still reeling from this a bit. I withdrew a lot and fell sharply into habitual coping mechanism patterns — but as that is all that will ever be and life after self immolation will be far superior , I’m certainly not stopping now !

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That’s incredible @claudiu I’m getting the tingles again reading this. I am starting to see it as an inevitability that someone will be next to do this, no way to tell who or when of course but if they can do it then so can I. It’s like a wish becoming a probability and now slowly an inevitability.

@claudiu Awesome!

there is no security in being a ‘self’

Indeed! This reminds me a lot of ‘my’ own last moments, and of a similar realisation (in my case “the known is the unsafe”), which caused a similar experience (in my case the ‘veil’).
‘I’ also pulled away at the last moment, being faced with the very real possibility of it happening now.
But that particular time, ‘I’ did not let go of that possibility of it happening now. ‘I’ did not start considering this experience as a missed opportunity, belonging ‘safely’ in the past, nor did ‘I’ throw the next possible opportunity ‘safely’ away in the future.
‘I’ maintained the door open now.
So it happened now.

@claudiu yes! as Geoffrey says, find a way to keep that door open, to stay fascinated, being drawn like a moth to a flame.

*I posted this in water cooler as a response to The Watercooler Chat Thread - #17 by geoffrey but I thought it is a little more relevant here :

Yes that is really helpful @geoffrey, I can see that my normal way of thinking about becoming actually free is a goal which exists in the future which I am currently working towards. Looking at it this way might be necessary at the beginning of the journey to give one some sort of basic orientation.

However if it is to stay this way then Actual freedom will forever remain in the future, it will forever be a concept.

For it to become an actuality it can only ever happen now, the more time spent looking at it as a future goal the more I am perpetuating myself through ‘my’ quest.

I have been thinking alot about your other post about ‘keeping the door open’, this seems to encompass what we are talking about, that it can only ever happen now.

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So recently I have been getting these brief experiences, usually a few times in a day when the nature of actuality becomes apparent for a moment. It is always the same kind of flavour, it is the experience of the utter perfection of this actual world, it is like every atom and cell of this universe is imbibed with that perfection.

The difference with these experiences vs others in the past is that it is clearly seen that this perfection is the only thing that genuinely exists, it is not an experience or a way of seeing but rather it is the way this universe actually is.

So it is like a reversal in seeing. The actual is not an escape from the real because once again the ‘real’ would have to genuinely exist for ‘me’ to escape from it. The real is simply what blocks the awareness of that which actually, genuinely exists. I like the word calenture to describe the real because it is like a feverish dream state which arises out of a confused/afflicted mind, as Richard says the heart felt corruption of the mind.

Due to the nature of ‘being’ ‘I’ am simply unable to experience the fact that this universe is already complete and perfect in every regard. However each time ‘I’ fade away a little it is once again seen as a fact that there is nothing but perfection.

Each time this seeing happens there is a sense of the ultimate preciousness of existence, of being the universes experience of itself. I don’t really have words to describe the magnitude of how precious it is but it blows any of ‘my’ other desires out of the water.

But something is still missing in terms of the desire to self immolate now. It can’t be that I do not get that ‘I’ have to go in my totality because I saw it clear as day in that PCE.


Great advice!!! It is always now. it’s never not now. while i’m writing this it’s now… I will never be ‘over there’ somewhere else or ‘somewhere else’ sometime later… i’ll only always ever be here now

and this is a fact. it isn’t a belief or conviction - ‘I’ dont have to maintain or put energy into having this be the case, because it already is the case!! weeeeeeeeeee

So I wanted to write a bit more about what has been going on lately as it helps me to understand more thoroughly myself if I have to put the experiences into writing.

I have noticed lately that my attention has shifted wholly to subject of self immolation. It is the first thing that comes to mind when I wake up and the last when I go to sleep. This obsession has made it very difficult for any dramas to take hold which would usually seek to pull me back into feeling sorrowful or malicious.

It seems day to day instead of dealing with triggers I am more involved with noticing the subtle ways in which ‘I’ am still there spoiling this moment of being alive purely by virtue of ‘being’. That thin veneer of reality which prevents the perfection and purity which is experienced when ‘I’ momentarily fade away.

I was teaching a martial arts class yesterday and instead of worrying about how well the class went as I usually would I found myself pondering about the intimacy I experienced with my students, the joy of interacting with my fellow human beings and how I could have this as an ongoing experience yet ‘I’ am preventing it by my very presence. There was a sense of sincerity in my interactions with others, I saw that I no longer had to pretend to be the all knowing, all powerful coach. I was only interested in ensuring/facilitating that everyone derived the most benefit from attending this class, not just in the practical sense of learning stuff but also enjoying and appreciating the doing of it all.
I was speaking to a few students after the class who remarked how enjoyable they have found every single one of my classes and there was a deep joy at this, not because it meant that ‘I’ am a good coach but simply because they are a fellow human being. This was completely different to morality, it was not doing ‘good’ so that ‘I’ get to feel good about myself but rather it was the deep and sincere joy of seeing my fellow human beings enjoy themselves and to be able to share that magical intimacy with them.

Driving home after the class there was a deep sense of joy at inching closer to what I always wanted to be and at the same time an acute awareness of how ‘I’ am always that 1 impenetrable step away from living this intimacy as an actuality 24/7.

I can see that self immolation must happen now, this is becoming clear, it can never be a future action because that is something which arises out of and perpetuates ‘me’. The doing of it and it happening as an actuality must happen now.

A few times yesterday I found myself in these states of extreme clarity, they seem to happen of their own accord and provide a glimpse of what life is like without ‘me’ running the show. A significant one of those came just as I was going to sleep last night. I was laying in bed and began experiencing this clarity. I could see just to what extent ‘being’ veils the experience of being alive.

I could see that all the dramas which ‘I’ forever spin are simply what ‘I’ am as a being, they are not what ‘I’ do but simply what ‘I’ am. Even in terms of this latest fear fuelled drama about dying (which has now more or less gone). In that state of clarity I could see that this drama only exists because ‘I’ exist. I could see that this body freed of ‘me’ lives in a state of complete emancipation from sorrow and malice or any psychic influence. Without ‘me’ the dramas end forever.

I have been thinking a lot about the desire for self-immolation and what it is that provides it. What it is that provides the intent necessary to take that step.
The past few days I observed in myself how to an extent all this has been ‘my’ quest. I saw that this intent can only get me so far, that this last slice of pizza cannot remove itself for its own sake.
There was a realisation that at the core of it, it has all been self serving. I also knew that the opposite of this would not work, trying to be ‘good’ to sacrifice myself for the betterment of ‘humanity’. The key word that has come up here is destiny. That magical intimacy, that deep joy at being able to relate to my fellow human being without a trace of malice and sorrow. The freedom to enjoy this magical universe that we find ourselves in without a trace of wickedness. This is what provides the motivation, the desire to self-immolate so that this body and everybody can have this.

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I’ve been reflecting a ton on this and trying to figure out how to get there, what works and what doesn’t… I’m also curious if I can break the trend of people going silent for a while before self-immolating :smiley: It seems that there are a few of us rapidly becoming obsessed with this (at least me you and @jamesjjoo ), maybe there is a sort of group effect going on (similar to when Peter & Vineeto & the others became newly free) – although this time over the internet, which is far easier :smiley:

Anyway some notes:

  • contemplating that it is now and always now, does wonders.
  • What’s been happening today is that I find myself not in that state of thrill anymore, I feel like I am stuck again or in the old ways. And i realize that “I am not sure if it is now”. And then I remember (via an intellectual memory) that I knew before, that it is always now. And then I focus on that fact and refuse to believe it isn’t true (without believing it is true). And then again my experience changes and I am perceiving / knowing it is always now, and together with this is the thrill again. So this seems to be re-establishing the connection to pure intent
  • seeing it is a fact that actuality exists and it is always now - I dont have to do anything to maintain this. It is backwards, cause to get to this point I had to put a lot of energy into getting to the point of seeing it is now. But once I see it is now, then it’s the opposite - i see actually what i was putting energy into is refusing to see it is now/into maintaining ‘me’, and now what I have to do is allow myself to stop maintaining ‘me’, to stop putting energy into this, and allow the fact to stand on its own (i.e. not requireing ‘me’ at all)
  • my partner came back from a trip yesterday and I saw that a missing component was a desire for intimacy. just on my own, i didn’t recognize this lack, but once she came back I saw that this is above and beyond just for me. I don’t think having a partner is required , but this intimacy seems a key component.
  • but what is funny is now I am stuck the other way as some interpersonal issues came up for me – but I see that I have to resolve these and continue

I think thats all for now!

Yes I had similar thoughts to this @claudiu at first something like “if I am inclined to write it means I am not genuine about contemplating self-immolation, I am making it up etc” which now seems silly because a lot of the ‘thrust’ that I have experienced lately seems related to the conversations and shared experiences on here.

And like you said Peter, Vineeto and others were able to interact with other actualists to facilitate their own breakthrough so the same can be done on the internet.

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This one in particular seems to me to be an acute observation and summary of something I relate to a lot on a daily basis.

More good stuff:

  • What is working really well is that i have now seen that actuality is what is safe (eternally perfectly perpetually safe with nothing ‘i’ have to do to maintain that safety) while ‘i’ am unsafe , the ‘real world’ is what is unsafe
  • so when i now notice i am off the track i recognize that i am in ‘danger zone’ and that the first thing to do is ‘get back to safety’, i.e. to that thrilling mode where i am nearing actuality
  • sometimes this happens automatically, other times it requires resolving whatever the issue is that caused me to go away from safety in the first place
  • but seeing actuality is safe is key - it flips it to now that is the ‘natural’ point to go towards, as opposed to back ‘into me’
  • the “lack of caring” looks like it is a big reason to go away from safety. this is like the “forgetting” about it that i mentioned (a few weeks?) ago , it’s sort of like an ‘eh whatever’ and then not putting the effort and energy into getting back to safety. and its like why ???! lol . caring is key , this thing i am doing / we are doing does actually matter

anyway it is getting more fun and more exciting / less fearful as i go ! definitely further than ive ever been before, ‘uncharted waters’ for ME, although i think it is a lot easier for me now that so many people have succeeded before – so i know the waters are not uncharted for humanity :smiley: 4 minute mile has been broken multiple times now

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Something i have been contemplating is that the ‘present’ also does not exist in actuality.

When i do this in a semi meditative way, i sence an almost funnel like feeling in my head. Like the past is on the left, and tje future on the right, and it is the ‘present’ that ‘i’ am. The past and future get scooped out, but ‘i’ am still here because ‘i’ am the ‘present’.

It made me think that even though we can assert it is always now, the self has no problem with that ; it just makes it the ‘present’ and then goes back to being ‘me’ but more ‘present’.

I like that Richard goes to great descriptive lengths to describe the actual now. That it has no ‘duration’. The ‘present’ has duration. I perceive it to flow vertically. Which reminds me very much of many spiritual experiences (and the traditional view of what is ‘above’ and ‘below’, higher and lower etc).

Actual Now has no duration, and as long as there is duration then i am the ‘present’.

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Neither the past, future or present, have actual existence. In a way, i have been hiding in the present.