How often do you have PCEs now?
I don’t keep track per se. Not daily. But the way I wanna answer is to say “whenever I want to have one”. But I guess that has always been true 
I have found many ways to get there. Like I can ask “is actuality still there?” and that will reliably get me very close to actuality. The flip into a PCE doesn’t always happen. It is easier to firmly keep in mind the facticity of the PCE tho even when not in a PCE. So that is cool
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Oh that does sound nice. When you say “whenever you want to have one” is that like a passive happening or an active choosing? If active, then why not always have one?
active
Because i don’t always sincerely want one so the process is about getting myself to choose more and more, felicity and happiness and harmlessness and PCE, vs anxiety or stress or worry or desire etc
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That sounds awesome @claudiu. I have had the same realisation recently but for me being felictious rather than a full blown PCE.
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I wrote this ~9 days ago:
Currently I am finding that desire is a big one for me. I’ve come to realize I like the feeling of desire, of chasing after something. I am realizing that this is because it gives ‘me’ a shape, it validates my existence. But as I don’t substantially exist it’s very tenuous. Meeting the object of desire provides a feeling that this accomplished feeling could be infinite and eternal, even though I simultaneously know that it absolutely is not.
It’s actually pretty silly because there is the actually infinite and eternal right under my very nose. I think the reason Enlightenment is so appealing is because people actually are looking for the absolute — whether in philosophy or religion (God) or eastern religion (Enlightenment) or finding the “correct” code of laws or moral behavior etc. What people don’t realize is the actually existing absolute - the universe itself - is right here already!!
I realize it but I still find myself chasing my desires. At the same time I am seeing how I don’t feel good when I’m doing this. And contrary to what I thought and experienced before, it’s actually ridiculously easy to get “back on track”. It just takes me wanting to do it, to getting back to that feeling good (which for me is suffused with pure intent now), and then within a few moments it’s happening again. But there is this strange pull back that I continue to feel in the background, to follow the desire again - and I realize the pull is me / is not ‘outside of’ me - but there it is regardless.
So this pull then , is the next (maybe last??) obstacle.
And this ~5 days ago:
I was able to see that what I was trying to do was stop desiring — while what works better is to continue desiring, but desire something else (namely actually freedom instead of the usual ultimately-fruitless pursuits). After all, I am a feeling being, the way that I want things is by desiring them! Somewhere along the way I picked up that desiring is ‘bad’ (not only Buddhism but from how I was raised too) and so then I thought I couldn’t ‘use’ desire to become actually free, despite it being explicitly said in many places that it certainly can be/must be.
After this I could no longer use this excuse of chasing desires. It’s clear it’s a matter of choice – choosing what to desire. I choose either way, whether I am aware of it or not.
After choosing to go further further in the actual freedom direction I’m finding things are a little strange. It’s like I’ve become a different person. Or more like there are two 'Claudiu’s (both feeling-beings), one is the senseless-desire-chasing Claudiu, the other is the sincere-naive Claudiu, who is writing this, and I feel like I’m on the “other side” of that senseless-desiring, I can look at it and it’s like somebody else was doing it (though I know it was me), and I can easily see how simply silly it is!!
So I’m not sure what to call it. It would sound like I’m describing a dissociative thing, but I know it was ‘me’ in the past too. The interesting thing is that even though ‘me’ as ‘being’ is very different there is still a consistency of consciousness. I know I’m not actually a different human being, it is just ‘me’ shaping ‘myself’ differently. […]
Anyway, it is much more enjoyable to be the sincere-naive Claudiu
Now I’m not that sincere-naive Claudiu, I haven’t been consistently, though I find my way back from time to time. It seems like I can just agree to be a different person haha, and leave the rest behind. It is a scary prospect – what will happen to me socially? – but I can’t stay in limbo forever.
I’m curious @Srinath @geoffrey if you experienced any such thing and/or the strangeness of this ? ?
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I was only just thinking about this very point, the place of desire, and specifically “what do I want?”
It sheds a different light on desire. Normally, it’s seemingly a “bad” thing, like you said about being brought up like that. It’s also a clouded thing, being the main focus of morality and social adjustment.
Then what is desire really? Considering that it’s essential for success in actualism!
It gets a bad rep.
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This is really cool to read I have had similar experiences lately, it’s always odd how these things synch up.
I have been observing this limbo too, it’s like there is not much more do to, no other direction I can travel anymore because they are all directions within myself.
Then at times (one happened yesterday) there is a genuine/sincere me that gets very close (it seems) to going all the way. In this case it eventually faded and now it’s back to the limbo. But I also observe that each time I am back to the limbo I build up even closer to the next ‘attempt’ so I am no longer dissuaded by this happening.
Yesterday when it happened I was driving my car and it became very clear what I need to do, there was very little drama around it, there was sincerity in the face of that which needs to happen. A seeing that setting myself free is to break that bond/agreement which keeps us all bound and in doing so it is demonstrating to others that we no longer need to remain within the human condition. This was clearer than I ever saw before. I could see that this is what all the actually free guys are doing all this time, that is their contribution, demonstrating by living example that this bond can be safely broken, no need to remain a being anymore.
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Interesting. I am experiencing this talking with a woman. There is an expectation, a “bond/agreement” which I keep having to politely push through. Perhaps it’s the same with everyone; politely breaking this bond.
But as Claudiu ponders; where will that leave me socially?
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I guess those fears of what will happen socially need to be fully explored and eventually put aside because where it will leave me is far superior, to turn this into a problem of how others will see me means there is more to look at first.
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I was just thinking about this same concept yesterday
It’s about ‘who’ you’re ‘being’
So for me I’m used to ‘being’ a ‘lonely guy’ (with everything that comes with that). I realized I could ‘be’ something else. There are lots of ‘beings’ I could be, but as an actualist what I want to be is happy & harmless, aka a ‘naive guy’ (in the sense of ingenuous & delighted).
So it’s still Henry, but it’s naive-sincere Henry now
We’ve had hints of what that looks like in the past in EEs and IEs, it’s just about making the commitment to be that all the time
edit:
It occurs to me that another crucial element is that it’s always now, so the confusing situation you describe of there being a ‘sensible’ and ‘senseless’ Claudiu that seem to inhabit the same body is quite simple: when certain structures within the brain/self are triggered, the ‘senseless’ is occurring, and when they are not, the ‘sensible’ is able to operate. There is no contradiction in ‘you,’ it’s just that different ‘programs’ are operating at different times. During a PCE, ‘I’ am not really operating at all.
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Lol I feel foolish. This whole time , the sole point of it all is WANTING to enjoy and appreciate!! That’s the “missing element”. That’s the piece that can’t be gotten by following a list of instructions. It’s just that you have to want to do it lol. And if you do then the rest falls into place aided by the reports and descriptions etc.
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Another one of those things sitting in plain sight of every second page of the AFT!
Dang! What else am I not “reading with both eyes open” 
Haha you have no idea how often I’ve had that same realization. I’m saying to myself: “why don’t they just say that” until I remeber it’s stated over and over and over again even on a rolling banner 
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@claudiu Sorry for the late response. I was busy. But also it wasn’t clear to me what you were asking 
It can be confusing dealing with desire, as there is a raw instinctual component to it – but also a more social identity aspect, which is less capital ‘D’ desire, than being told what to value and want. Then there is simple, naive preferences and likes. As a feeling being this is all rather mixed up. I remember at various times as a feeling being I would separate into naive and non-naive personalities – then it would snap back and I was one again. I don’t think this was an entirely fabricated or dissociative process. The further one goes and the more pure intent, the more obvious, ill-fitting and flimsy feeling being and social identity become. But one does have to watch out for fabricating the process and bringing a moral tinge to it. Let sincerity and pure intent be your guide.
At the end of the day the fear of you being left behind and of you becoming someone else is very real - because it is true. As Geoffrey once said, you need to be prepared to give up everything but you realise later you have lost only your chains. Its not for nothing that self-immolation is called the ultimate sacrifice
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Hi @Srinath
I’m very interested in this topic myself right now. I’ve been observing the mixed up categories of instinctual desire, socially conditioned ‘values’/‘desires’ and naive preferences and likes. I can’t always clearly sort them.
I am wondering how to ‘stay the course’ so that I can be consistently in touch with and guided by those naive preferences and likes. I find that at moments I am so authentic and spontaneous yet also harmless. I am almost certain that I want to live that way as it seems infinitely more happy, harmless, and also ‘involved’ rather than withdrawn. I could almost cry thinking of how harmful corrupted and calculating I am at even this moment relative to those times of naivete, there is plenty of intention to get to that place and stay there.
This quality of ‘involved’ appears to be based on being fully in touch with those naive preferences and likes I think, and somehow it leaves me automatically happy and harmless. It seems as simple as that if I am being guided by those alone then things are perfect or at least near-perfect. Honestly this really confuses me. Why is it that these naives likes and preferences are so harmless? Couldn’t there be a naive ingenuous like/preference for something harmful? Experientially I don’t find this to be an issue or concern once I am in that state but because I don’t understand why it is this way, it is much harder to convince myself to be solely guided by the naive likes/preferences because I don’t intellectually understand. I guess it is just evidence of some connection to pure intent? Ultimately I am just tapping in to stream of benignity? And that benignity is simply a feature of the universe?
I find that when the social identity takes the wheel again, it starts trying to operate by judging which potential actions are harmful and which are harmless. Although it seems to just be pseudo-actualism morality at work. I think I get flashes of naive likes and preferences through the cracks though, and the social identity can easily dismiss them as harmful or self-centered, so I fail to ‘board the train’.
Or alternatively, a naive like or preference will tell me to not do something that I have labeled as ‘right’ and so I get out of touch with the stream of naivete that way. Is there anything I can understand to keep on track more? Or is it just a matter of courage essentially that leads to seeing it experientially over and over? Because I do find it to be an act of courage that leads to me tapping into that 'stream of naivete since I can’t be sure where it will lead exactly…
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@hunterad it’s all very simple. You choose to be happy and harmless each moment again. I’m not sure I’ll call that courageous as such - although sure, some effort is required from time to time. The higher your baseline the stronger the link to pure intent. Pure intent is what you need to tell the difference between these things. Its only on self-immolating – or at least when one is virtually free that you are consistently naive. Until then this mess and inconsistency is what you have to settle for! You make your own bed in that sense.
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