Claudiu: As to whether I am out-from-control or not, I do wonder about it at times, it does seem Kuba & I are experiencing the same thing, but it also seems different than how ‘Vineeto’ experienced it. That being said I’m fairly frequently reminded as to how different ‘I’ am now than before. Example I saw a show where someone was having a bad day, and they were like “oh it’s one of those days…” And I just realized I haven’t had a ‘bad day’ since I went out-from-control! I’ve had very intense days, yes, but nothing that happens actually has a long-lasting impact where I go into feeling of despair or circling around in resentment. It is really remarkable.
And actuality is always so close at hand, even if ‘I’ am anxiously ruminating about an issue, it can always rapidly turn into a near-pure experience if not a PCE outright.
So I always end up concluding that it is properly out-from-control haha.
That being said it is a bit strange as I would think being out-from-control is always about being naivete personified, but I don’t feel that way all the time. Perhaps Vineeto can shed some light here.
Hi Claudiu,
Btw, naiveté is not necessarily something you feel but rather a “range of naïveness from being sincere to becoming naïve and all the way through being naïveté itself” as laid out in “A Quaint Clay-Pit Tale” (link).
‘Vineeto’ wrote that “the way I discovered naiveté was to actively rid myself of cynicism, and the first step was to become aware of the fact that I had cynical thoughts and feelings – i.e. to experience how cynical I was and to recognize the maliciousness of cynicism. The next step was to stop feeling cynical because a cynic is someone who despises being here.” (link)
Then ‘she’ noticed that ‘she’ had trouble even detecting cynicism and sarcasm in ‘her’ correspondents. Putting aside ‘her’ pride was a big help as well, whilst ‘being naiveté’ required to give up ‘her’ fears which was the more difficult task to accomplish, hence the delay.
I am glad you brought up this issue which I have been pondering for a while.
It seems to me that just like with the term of ‘virtual freedom’ (link), see also tool-tip at the end) we perhaps could introduce, after so much praxeological evidence mainly from you and Kuba, two distinctive labels for being out-from-control in order not to water down the original experience/ reports/ descriptions –
Richard: The virtual freedom being referred to in ‘Richard’s Journal’ is, of course, the full-blown experiencing of it: an out-from-being-under-control and, thus, different way of being nowadays known as an ongoing excellence experience.
(This ongoing excellence experience is what the methodological aspect of a virtual freedom – a persistent and diligent application of the actualism method – can morph into whenever that current-time awareness method has been applied to a sufficiency for that to occur/ have happen).
This penultimate out-from-under-control/ different-way-of-being is barely distinguishable from a pure consciousness experience. (It was from this ongoing excellence experiencing that pure consciousness experiences occurred on a near-daily basis – sometimes two-three times a day – for the identity inhabiting this flesh and blood body all those years ago). (Richard, List D, No. 4, 14 May 2009)
Richard: An obvious out-from-control/ different-way-of-being virtual freedom is an on-going excellence experience (EE) but an on-going intimacy experience (IE) may very well be the most likely state as an EE, being so close to a PCE as to be barely distinguishable is not so likely to readily occur sooner rather than later. (List D, No. 12, 9 Dec 2009).
Richard: In effect, the actualism process is what ensues when one gets out from being under control, via having given oneself prior permission to have one’s life live itself (i.e., sans the controlling doer), and a different way of being comes about (i.e., where the beer is the operant) – whereupon a thrilling out-from-control momentum takes over and an inevitability sets in – whereafter there is no pulling back (hence the reluctance in having it set in motion) as once begun it is nigh-on unstoppable. Then one is in for the ride of a lifetime! (Richard, List D, Claudiu4, 28 Jan 2016)
I say ‘perhaps’ because only the persons themselves can accurately determine what is going on for them and neither I nor anybody else has the role of a probity policeman. Only they can determine if their experience of being-out-from-control, which has been a clear stepping-up in their actualism process (“being able to let go of the controls” (link) and “the brakes cannot be put on” (link)) is the beginning of a seamless ongoing process, through to an ongoing experience of being naiveté itself, or if there is/was another noticeable stepping-up towards being naiveté itself –
Richard: “In either type of near-PCE – wherein the experiencing is of ‘my’ life living itself, with a surprising sumptuosity, rather than ‘me’ living ‘my’ life, quite frugally by comparison, and where this moment is living ‘me’ (instead of ‘me’ trying to live ‘in the moment’) – the diminishment of separation is so astonishing as to be as-if incomprehensible/ unbelievable yet it is the imminence of a fellow human’s immanence which, in and of itself, emphasises the distinction the most.” (Richard, List D, Claudiu4, 28 Jan 2016)
Claudiu: Regardless of what it’s called, being more naive, as naive as I can be, does look like a very sensible step and something I can certainly do. It’s about giving up myself, those parts of me that want to still be serious, so that I can naively flourish instead, knowing it will lead to my ultimate demise.
What really makes this eminently sensible (and thus palatable) is knowing with confidence that anything that is actually important (as in needs doing), apperceptive consciousness can readily handle, indeed with far more care than I could muster. This was exemplified in a piquant manner the other day during a period of particular proximity to actuality, when I had finished curbing after my dog. With the dog’s waste product in the proper poop-bag receptacle, I then twisted the top of the bag, and wound it around to make a knot… and then when I pulled the bag through the knot-hole I thought to make the end flourish outward like as if of a flower blooming.
This was an effortless thought and physical gesture, that was done solely because of the sheer fun of doing it – and it was no burden to do it whatsoever! Normally when ‘I’ do things it’s a burden to ‘care’, because ‘I’ feel like ‘I’ care and ‘I’ have to put effort into execute this ‘caring’ action… but when nearly apperceptive there is essentially no burden at all, and of course when actually apperceptive there is actually no burden whatsoever.
In general there is no more thoughts or wondering ‘how’ to self-immolate, and there is continuing to be (and has not been for a while) any feeling of being ‘stuck’. What is running as a constant now is the “Do not hesitate!” anymore, and taking every opportunity that serendipitously presents itself to go forth into actuality/ allow ‘myself’ to diminish to allow apperception to occur. Going about it all in as naive manner as possible ought only to increase the potency of this! (link)
This is excellent news.
My pondering was mainly that Richard’s description of “being naiveté, the closest a ‘self’ can get to actual innocence” has so far not much featured in yours and Kuba’s ongoing reports but is now beginning to become apparent. Whether this first period should perhaps be labelled as a “pragmatic out-from-control period” or is presently automatically morphing into a “being-naïveté-out-from-control” way of being rather than being an extra deliberate stepping-up is going to be observed/ determined by the present practicing actualists.
Cheers Vineeto
P.S.: History: Richard’s own experiences of a ‘Dynamic Destinal Virtual Freedom (link) lasted for a short period before ‘he’ was hijacked by enlightenment and before that by “love and oneness” (link) and Footnote.
‘Vineeto’s’ period of Out-from-Control (link) began after ‘she’ overcame the wall of fear (particularly the fear of becoming enlightened) and lasted for four-and-a-half weeks before ‘she’ became actually free.
Geoffrey said “the only time where ‘I’ might have been said to be in an out-from-control virtual freedom was that one week before ‘my’ self-immolation: the first week on September 2018” (link)
Footnote:
Tarin: Which event (including unconsciousness non-event), to the best of my understanding, happened at the very beginning of the on-going state that you lived day and night for 11 years, and was the first time you had experienced going beyond name-and-form. Is this correct?
Richard: To answer your specific questions: as the first-time event occurred in April, 1981, it was five months prior to the start of the eleven year period of spiritual enlightenment/ mystical awakenment; it was the turning-point, as far as PCE’s and ASC’s were concerned. (Mailing List D Tarin)