Wow, how long did that last for?
Feel free to tell us more about self-image and psychological time. For example, as to image, I would feel an abject misery for not having a life partner and children. And for not owning a home. I felt others were judging me. Naturally, I was judging myself while sabotaging* any innocent endeavors that would have naturally led to those outcomes. And for psychological time, I experience that as a sense of urgency but it can also play out as a feeling of regret. And also, feeling the future out in such a way that mistakes are avoided and doing nothing is preferred.
*in the form of doubt and confusion. Confusion in if such and such road was the road I really wanted - this girl, that house… And doubt in whether I could get it or how I should go about getting it. Incidentally, those material desires and circumstances are natural progressions for a developed world able-bodied person. No wonder I judged myself so harshly for not progressing. Of course, the self-loathing only worsened my stagnation. Also incidentally, I had no friends or mentors to help me out. My parents are kind of duds and I as a friend back in my adolescent and early 20’s was also a dud. So support group was lacking. Is this my journal or yours?
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A whole 10-15 minutes. Although short lived, what was interesting was that it happened at work and while I was around people. It was genuinely a delight to talk to people. I had no other motives or desires when talking to them. It was just great to talk to them right there as they were. Almost all other actualism related experiences usually happen in nature or away from people. It started with the seeing that there was no one in charge of anything. My entire mind just emptied and everything just seemed still. It was just an complete delight if I had to describe it. On top of that, the whole self-image and psychological time issue just wasn’t there.
Self-image and psychological time are inter-related in that self-image operates almost always through some comparison in psychological time. ‘I’ am comparing myself to the ideal that society has told me is what I need to be or it may have also been misguidedly “picked up” on my part from somewhere (such as an actualist identity). It doesn’t seem like I can ever reach any of these ideals and I never actually have in fact. There’s always something off. In psychological time, this self-image is felt to have some real coherent existence in that it exists in both the “past” and gets projected into the future as the ideal self-image that I’m trying to be. On top of this though, psychological time itself is felt to really exist as the past and future. It may be composed of varying feelings depending on what scenario is being projected and what beliefs I’m holding. And even further to that all of my relating in society is done through some self-image.
As an example, many of my friends recently got married and some also have kids. My parents also have started pressuring me in some way that if I don’t do it then there will be no one to take care of me and all the rest which I’m sure everyone is familiar with. I became aware of the process as I was talking with them how this has been happening since I was a child and how a bleak future with all the feelings associated with it has basically been force-fed to me. The self-image associated with that is one of a lonely failure; something that I’m supposed to not become. Then that bleak future is felt out and it starts to feel very real as it’s constantly being reinforced by both myself and others. I realized that this same process has been happening with everyone and not just my parents.
Another example is also just when it gets to nighttime some days then I start thinking and feeling about tomorrow. What if I don’t effectively manage some situation at work? Then I’d be a failure. Incompetent. Unworthy. Probably not everyone goes through these issues, but it has been helpful to make sense of this in my life. Maybe these two things are related to some other things but I’m trying stay with it instead of trying to think about what is the next stop.
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My parents never enforced this particular thing of children, bleak future if not etc and it’s interesting how that particular ‘bleak future’ does not exist for me, it simply wasn’t conditioned into me and has no reality. Of course I have other ‘bleak futures’ I have been conditioned with 
but it’s interesting how the differing very ‘real’ futures can exist depending on the particular conditioning one has been exposed to.
My particular ‘bleak future’ (thanks mum 
) is to do with dying in painful disease 
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I was aiming for the specifics how the condition plays out for you rather than a technical overview. I added how it plays out for me so we could back and forth. Not surprisingly, there very similar. Only differences I can see is I don’t have any pressures from family. Now that I think about it, that is pretty nice of them. At least they weren’t hands off and judgy at the same time. That would be a malicious combo, methinks. And I don’t have projects that burden me at night. Being as I don’t work for anyone or take on personal projects until I have absolutely have to.
Charming.
You mentioned being raised in an eastern culture. It is unsurprising to read of this pressure to perform at work.
I noticed this when I was in relationship with a Taiwanese woman for 3 years. Her mother was obsessed with work. She was equally resigned to working in oppressive conditions.
However, when I would propose going into business together, leveraging my real estate contacts and her countries obsession with property, she was adamant that it would “ruin our relationship”. In fact, she was very opposed to anything outside what her culture dictated.
Was it a PCE?
Oh I see, I thought I would include that part too since that’s also how I experience it and from my observations. Sounds like you have it good in that regard haha. The thing is my parents don’t always tell me this or pressure me day in and day out. It’s just like this feeling of guilt when they do tell me as if I’ve not only failed in society if I don’t do it but that I’ve also failed them. Guilty like they’ve done so much for me and I can’t do this for them (which they do mention indirectly sometimes). Despite them saying “it’s your choice how you want to live”. This must highlight that family bond I have with them. There’s the identity that I’ve been charged with of being a “good son” that I must maintain. This guilt keeps that in place. Now I can see much of the social identity is composed in the same way. This has been nice to flesh this out more in writing!
But aside from that, my day to day on many days of the week consists of overthinking from attempting to maintain a favorable self-image in all aspects of my life. Most if not all are relationships such as with family, friends, and work. Now it really makes me think why Richard had that question of if man and woman can live together in peace and harmony for 100% of the day.
You mentioned that you feel abject misery in the example you provided. Do you still feel the same way in regards to that self-image or has it disappeared? I’d be interested to hear how you got past it if you have.
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This bleak future sounds better than mine to me hahaha But yes it is very interesting and I wonder if the tendency goes down all the way to the collective level as well.
On hindsight I’d say it was, but not for the entire duration as I think it became an excellence experience. But the particular quality that stood out to me was the “no one is in charge” or “no authority” aspect of it. This was because I was thinking about something right before that how it always feels like I’ll be punished if I don’t follow what the world is saying. A common feature in my life unfortunately. In fact, I feel that way even when I try to employ the actualism method. There’s a feeling of “something will go wrong” or that I’ll be punished for enjoying and appreciating for no reason. Like I have to earn it before I can do that by going through some hardship. But something happened at that time where it just disappeared as I was feeling that anxiety associated with it. Depending on the situation this feeling for me can be very strong.
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That’s interesting that you say that as I find women with that kind of conditioning or bent off-putting (in the context of dating). I don’t find my own conditioning pleasant at all. It would only serve to compound it further.
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It’s in remission at the moment. I’m having lots of PCEs and my baseline is happy and harmless. Though my dips below the baseline are persistent and can last for several minutes, they don’t come with that sense of frustration and hopelessness: Why can’t I get rid of this; Must I forever suffer through this, etc. So just allowing myself to move back above the baseline and prioritizing PCEs is the 2nd way I’ve gotten past it.
Before the trip to Alaska, I had done lots of intellectual investigations into equity and autonomy (edit) - as well as several dozen experiential realizations (end edit). Those laid a nice groundwork. Since Alaska, I’ve been on a high and that groundwork is taken for granted. That’s the 3rd way I’ve gotten past it.
The primary way was allowing myself to see what I wanted, which came in steps over a 4 year period. I did want those things. They weren’t at all difficult and I was getting in the way of attaining them. First came where I was going to live. That was an impromptu decision when I was visiting home. I decided I wanted to live here. That choice gave my parents the opportunity to do the bare minimum for me in terms of navigating home buying. They were comfortable lifting a pinky on my behalf and that’s all the help I needed. Then I found myself with a girl who had small kids. I had been dating her for two years. And with the help of Henry and Nick, I realized I wanted to experience that young family life. So since my return, I have allowed myself to be a greater part of her life.
Now I realize that I was so occupied with what others thought of me, not because, I cared that much about what they thought. But because I was projecting my own priorities through them (edit) through what i perceived their judgements of me to be (end edit) and found myself lacking.
priorities
I don’t mean goals. I mean what I genuinely wanted to experience and/or the lifestyle I genuinely wanted for myself
found myself lacking.
edit: Wrong phrasing. What I meant to say was confused without even knowing it.
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Great to hear that you have that consistent baseline! Perhaps in-control virtual freedom? Very envious nonetheless. But thanks for this insight into how you overcome this.
I find myself at a similar point. I’m trying to figure out if my reluctance to wanting the same things such as being married and/or having children is genuinely me not desiring those things or simply a rebellion against parental pressure and the subsequent feeling of being caged arising from that. Plus, there’s a bit of spiritual conditioning where I’m also rebelling against those things because “desire bad”.
I can totally relate to this. A significant portion of my relating to others happens through this. Writing this now makes me realize that perhaps my own rebellion against these “normal” things is really me creating another identity to combat and escape my relationships to others. I can intellectually see that this keeps me tied to the past and keeps those relationships in tact 
. An ill-conceived tactic. Underneath all of this seems to be an anger that I have to do whatever my parents or society tells me to do. That if I don’t then I’m a loser or an outcast. So I end up thinking up some idea to do the opposite of what they’re telling me. But the question I suppose I should ask is what do I genuinely want.
Also I feel a certain freedom from your writing that you were able to do what you wanted that highlights my feeling of being caged. I feel like I can’t do what I want because if I abandon my relationship to my parents/friends/other societal relationships to do what I want then I am being selfish and I feel guilt. Lots for me to reflect on!
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I answered my own question as I reflected on my typing this out:
Has anyone had an issue disappear forever? I mean that you “see it” and then it completely disappeared. Richard seems like he had a lot of these. Or is it something that you have a realization on and then have to actively choose to not go that way? I have a habit of self-doubt even on my realizations.
It’s clear that for him it was from an already established dedication to pure intent. So why don’t I stick with pure intent? I’m thinking it’s my relationship to others and the self-doubt arising from that. Without that I am standing on my own. I saw it myself clearly. Even though I see the way is easy and I only have to stick to that. Further to that, I’m afraid of losing this dysfunctional relationship to “others”. I’m going in circles here!
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Today there was news that my boss got promoted. Then I was discussing with my colleague/friend about who they would pick for the vacant position. Then we kind of figured that it would be one of our other colleagues. This started to create an anxiety due to myself not having moved up the corporate ladder yet. There’s nothing wrong with the position that I’m at right now, but once I started comparing myself to my colleagues who are about the same age if not just slightly older I started to feel kind of worthless. I’ve felt this way in the past before. The feeling that I must move up or otherwise that I’m wasting my life. It just feels like it’s constantly being reinforced. Like my position is not safe unless I keep moving up. I absolutely hate that it’s like this.
I started asking myself “what if I didn’t move up at all? Then what?”. Then this conjured a self-image or feeling of “wasted potential”. That everyone will have “moved on” and I will remain the same. I don’t even want to move up because of this. It’s not trying to move up or moving up itself that is the problem. It’s this feeling that I “must” move up or otherwise I’m worthless or wasted my life. Then I rebel against this feeling and just don’t attempt to try at all. So the question is what do I really want?
I don’t think I’m interested in corporate culture or any of that sort at all. It just all feels very fake. Additionally, it’s also a lot of stress. But I hate this pressure that I feel the most. I’m not sure if I can even make a free decision with it constantly suffocating me. But even further to that, this seems to be a part of some larger theme of status among my peers and society. I need to move up the hierarchy otherwise it feels “unsafe”
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What potential costs and benefits would there be to being in that other position?
There are definite downsides of being in management
Right now I’m at ‘the bottom of the totem pole’ but my life is very easy. I don’t have to manage anyone. I don’t deal with difficult situations. I know how to do my job, and I do it. It pays well enough for me, it’s not worth moving ‘up,’ at least right now.
But the other side is that sometimes ‘moving up’ isn’t so bad, and is worth the perks like more pay. It’s conditional
One thing to see is that if you were to move up… then you’d feel unsafe at your new position. And if you moved up again … you’d feel unsafe again. And if you amassed a large amount of savings while doing so … then you’d feel unsafe about preserving the money.
It’s cause these things are always conditional. So you feel insecure because of the conditionality of it. But it’ll always be conditional so you’ll always feel insecure. What you really want is some guaranteed unconditional thing. Which no position or financial situation in the world will be. However there is this thing called the actual world … 
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Your post made me think about something that I was observing recently in myself.
What you describe about the work situation is this over-arching structure of beliefs, values etc that comprise what could be called the ‘rat race’, which is really like a fundamental belief-system within ‘humanity’.
This structure of beliefs is made such that each belief supports the other, they give each other credence.
The tricky thing when investigating these structures is that when I begin questioning one belief/value/moral etc then another one will swing in to back it up, to justify its necessity. This is because they are not so much singular beliefs but rather these clusters of beliefs which support one another.
So for example I might begin to question this shame around not succeeding and then the fear of not having enough to survive comes in… So I end up feeling defeated with my attempts at resolving the drama.
Like Richard writes “it is impossible to combat the wisdom of the real world”. The ‘real world’ is structured in such a way that its wisdom supports itself, it is like a closed feedback loop.
So what I noticed lately is that investigating these big structures happens in a different format than what I always expected. It is not that a singular and separate value is looked at and demolished and then onto the next.
It is not that there is 1 separate pin holding the whole thing in place and that only if I find it the whole thing collapses.
It rarely works this way in practice because this belief cluster is so sound that each value falls back to the other, this is what eventually lumps together to create ‘reality’.
So what I found in myself is that I will never find this 1 villain that is causing the drama to exist, instead I will continue outlining the structure of this ‘rat-race’ more and more as a totality, with greater clarity and precision. I will continue chipping away at the structure as a whole and the thing will have less and less credence especially when continually contrasted with the third alternative (this is also a huge part because it offers a solution once the problem is clearly outlined)
Over time certain singular values might begin dropping off but this will be more a bi-product of the exploration as opposed to being a goal in itself.
Not sure how relevant all this is for you but this has been quite big for me to see lately. That investigations happen a little differently than I always thought. Now that I know what to expect of the process there is less chance of getting frustrated with it not happening the way I thought it is meant to. And I also see why all my investigations in the past happened the way they did.
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Hmm but then if you find the more ‘fundamental’ belief can’t you see through that more fundamental one? Then the initial one would go too.
And then if you find it’s circular then you could see that that’s enough in and of itself. Like if you only believe A cause of B, and only believe B cause of C, and only believe C cause of A… once you see all that then you see there’s no foundation for any of them! So you don’t need to wait and just undo A or B or C, the whole loop can go.
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