Vineeto: This “impression” may be believed to be true but it is not a fact. The many questions Richard answered from his ongoing experience regarding delighting in sexual congress without any libido bear witness to the incredulity of his correspondents that sexual enjoyment required the presence of libido (link). It is my own intimate personal experience as well that libido is not at all required for optimum enjoyment of sexuality – on the contrary it had only been in the way of perfect ongoing intimacy.
Chrono: Hi Vineeto,
I can readily see that it gets in the way of intimacy, but I have been contemplating how can this powerful drive be utilized. It’s been difficult to contemplate outside of the opposites in regards sexual desire. Initially there’s even a small sense of shame in wanting to completely indulge in it. I found your post with Richard’s expanded description of the way towards sexual congress happening of its own accord very illuminating. Part of me is actually in disbelief that sex can even be that good haha. What stood out to me the most though and perhaps may serve as a line of demarcation in my approach was this:
Richard: Now, the way to have intimacy unfold, in all its luscious wonder, is to be aware all the while (with that unique human ability to be conscious of being sentient) that your sexual partner likes being with you so much that they are willing to spend their most valuable asset – their time – not only being with you but having you inside them/ having them inside you (dependent upon gender) for this most physically intimate way of associating possible.
In other words one is always aware, with that second-level awareness, all the while primary consciousness is sexually engrossed, just how precious this opportunity is as – out of all 3.0 billion women/ out of all 3.0 billion men (dependent upon gender) – this fellow human being has chosen you, and only you, to be so intimately entwined with. In short: having sex/ being intimate with her/ with him (dependent upon gender) is very special – so special as to be precious – and this very preciosity readily enables giving oneself completely to one’s partner – totally and utterly – during sexual congress. (snipped). (Richard, List D, No. 20, 9 Dec 2009).
Hi Chrono,
Can you see that the post from Richard answers your question regarding *“*how can this powerful drive [of libido] be utilized” . It “is to be aware all the while (with that unique human ability to be conscious of being sentient) that your sexual partner likes being with you so much that they are willing to spend their most valuable asset – their time – not only being with you but having you inside them/ having them inside you (dependent upon gender) for this most physically intimate way of associating possible.” Being aware of being conscious almost automatically gives rise to appreciation and the wonder of it all happening – and this way the energy of “powerful [affective] drive” of libido is channelled into enjoyment and appreciation with marvellous results.
Chrono: It sounds weird to say, but it’s this appreciation of my partner in this way that I find to be a new direction. And he also uses the word ‘preciosity’, which exact word has come to my mind when I’ve experienced the sweetness of this moment before. The same preciosity that I want to experience again. Sexual desire on its own has a disregard about it that may be the reason why it needs to be kept in check. I’ll try all of this next time and see! I might need to work on my ability to ‘hover indefinitely on that orgastic plateau which precedes an orgasm’. I’m wondering if that ability would also be of any use even if one was by oneself.
Well, in terms of the actualism method, which is enjoying and appreciating this moment of being alive, it is not “weird” at all – in fact it is appreciation which exponentially multiplies one’s enjoyment and can catapult you into naïveté. Also the more you appreciate of your partner in this way increases the intimacy and appreciation thereof, and as Richard says, “be warned, the sky is not the limit.”
To extend the time hovering on that orgastic plateau certainly needs practice but who would object to that. Lots to discover!
Vineeto: It seems you are ready to deliberate and explore the social conditioning of your gender identity of what you, and society, considers “being a ‘man’”. There are lots of beliefs and unspoken rules and all are unhelpful to both happiness/ harmlessness or delightful harmony and intimacy with a person of the other gender. It’s worth keeping in mind that what you see is a consequence of the tried and failed spiritual legacy of both Western and Eastern religions.
Some information is collected in Basic to Full Freedom, #man-woman-identity and more in Richard’s Journal, Article Two as well as the Actual Freedom Library on those topics with their respective selected correspondence links.
Chrono: I am still reading over much of the correspondence so I will reflect on it as I finish.
It’s certainly beneficial to reflect, but then any realisation needs to be actualised in order to bear fruit. It’s amazing what you can uncover with naiveté and pure intent and how your attitude and behaviour will change towards more benevolent, amiable and friendly action toward your fellow male and female human beings including yourself.
Vineeto: It’s interesting to note that contemplating “what it means to be ‘compassionate’” has triggered this “huge immense fear about what I am doing by trying to becoming free”. Compassion is one of the stalwarts to keep you trapped within humanity, and contemplating to do without appeared a dangerous and therefore impossible direction to proceed.
Chrono: Yes there was in the deepest part of the fear a complete and almost unbearable loneliness. Compassion perhaps keeps me connected to others and provides as an antidote for it in some way as well. Not that any of that will stop me haha. As you said, there may need to be a digestion period.
That fear of “a complete and almost unbearable loneliness” is exactly the prison wall that is supposed to ensconce you within ‘humanity’s’ boundaries. When you stop fighting the fear, it will instantly diminish and then you can see if it has any substance in actuality. And yes, if it is a deep fear it might take some time to unravel and get to the thrilling aspect.
I remember some strong fears ‘Vineeto’ had, for instance the atavistic one of being burnt at the stake –
‘Vineeto’: When Peter and I started to throw out love it had a great impact on my sexual ‘identity’. It was an intense and scary time because right behind the nice, embellishing veil of love lingered all the monsters and demons of being an animal, a whore, a slut, not human and having sex with a ‘stranger’. Enjoying sex without ‘being in love’ is still considered one of the greatest sins of Christian morality. And Eastern spirituality regards any kind of sex as the biggest obstacle to enlightenment.
Not only had I to face my own personal conditioning about sex but I was also confronted with the fact of stepping out of the collective accepted behaviour and limits that every woman had been taught. Demons of atavistic fears would present me with their ferocious stories, as though I was still living in the Middle Ages, where women were burnt at the stake for leaving the fold or were expelled for not conforming. It took some effort to understand that both fears and beliefs around sex were simply inherited from other people, they don’t have any actual relevance for me. Digging deeper, stepping outside of the realm of sexual conditioning and beliefs I then discovered their underlying force – the sexual instincts. (A Bit of Vineeto)
Here is another example –
‘Vineeto’: This reminds me of a day when I was so badly in the grip of fear that I couldn’t think straight, didn’t know how to get myself out of this overwhelming feeling and could hardly talk for my cluttering teeth. I thought that I will never gather enough gumption to become free, I am just too much of a coward. Telling my story to Richard he said something to the effect of: ‘what else would you want to do with your life – be miserable like right now for the next 30 odd years? Seems pretty impossible to me. Of course, you will keep going.’ (Actualism, Vineeto, AF-List, James, 20.12.1999).
What ‘Vineeto’ forgot to mention that Richard’s interjection snapped ‘her’ out of the grip of fear instantly (because quite obviously intense fear cannot be maintained forever). It brought ‘Vineeto’ back down to earth.
Chrono: It’s very funny that this topic of everyone basically being spiritual should come up. Just a few days ago I was talking with my partner after viewing an incredible image of distant galaxies about how spirituality had infiltrated science (or always had?). The reason of course being the inherent bias in ‘being’ itself. The universe itself is being viewed self-centrically.
Ha, I read some of the comments and naturally everyone on that forum attempted to integrate the new information as quickly as possible into their existing paradigm!
Chrono: Just to add to the above, it is that impression of being present and existing over time as an ‘entity’ which is the source of ‘my’ belief in immortality. Belief doesn’t seem quite right here as ‘I’ don’t actually believe that ‘I’ will persist after this body dies, it’s more like a fundamental impression. (link)
Well said. It’s not a belief which can be excised, it’s part and parcel of being an ‘entity’ … until, as it was for ‘Vineeto’ for instance, enough of actuality had irrefutably penetrated via apperceptive insights for ‘her’ to know, and accept, that ‘self’-immolation was the only and viable solution to the mess of the human condition.
MARK: But I do feel instinct and its grip weakening as my personal reality is exposed for the mirage that it is. This adds a little to the notion that the whole thing (the self) is an integrated package and a reduction in one area is a reduction across the board. Hence as we chip away at our belief system (the seemingly ‘most visible’ layer of the ‘being’, the outer most layer so to speak) then there are repercussions in our emotional and instinctual arenas as well.
RICHARD: Yes, well said. It (‘self’) is an integrated package because it arises out of the instinctual software package handed out by blind nature. At the core of ‘my’ being is the rudimentary animal ‘self’ that all sentient beings have. It is the price paid/ trade-off for consciousness being able to arise out of matter. [Emphasis added]. (Richard, AF List, Mark, 18 May 1999).
Cheers Vineeto