Good day is such a perfect salutation for the internet.
I want to report on two things. The first one is a warning and some guidance. When enjoying the fact that it is indeed this same moment, well that’s when you got it! But if your too lazy to ask the question and, instead, go straight to the answer then you may find yourself trying to conjure up a feeling rather than appreciating the feeling that arises from experiencing the answer.
I noticed this yesterday morning. I was awfully tired. And I woke up without the sensation of it being already now. And I noticed myself feeling irritated at not feeling wonderful. I caught myself trying to conjure up a feeling of wonder accompanied by an inner dialogue of something along the lines of “It is now.” I think I may have caught myself a dozen times.
The second topic is about uneasiness. I have this feeling that when idle I should be thinking about productive matters, because, my mind goes to the least productive subjects possible. I must have an organizational aptitude. Because I think about ways to improve systems I have nothing to do with. I’m a football fan. And I have come up with dozens of solutions to make football better. I will think about how to reform the American constitution. I will think about how to improve urban life here in my city. It’s embarrassing. I would love to be thinking about how to handle certain situations that come up in poker. I would love to be planning a future excursion. I’d love to be on the internet shopping for artwork and/or planning on making my basement more livable. These are productive thoughts. And I’ll think them for two minutes before my mind drifts back to the aforementioned things. The most productive thought is the actual world. But it’s the same deal. I’ll be latched on to pure intent. I’ll be well aware this is the only moment. And sure enough, the mind darts back to the same ole. If I’m not gonna go for actual freedom, at least, think about things that bring value. But, alas, no.
Naturally, it makes me feel pretty stupid. And while I can appreciate that feeling stupid is silly. And I can ask myself what time it is and marvel at the answer. And I can compare the underlying feeling of anxiety with the feeling of wonder and/or compare the feeling of anxiety to the undeniable fact that it is now. It’s momentum is quickly lost to the immovable force of it being already now. That lasts for however long it last but the mind darts back to something totally immaterial once again and once again I am left feeling confused. I can easily laugh at myself. But it’s really truly that. I’m pointing a finger and laughing at myself.
And then after I haha myself I go back to wonder by asking myself the right questions and after experiencing the answer, sensuousness bubbles up on it’s own as there is less filter to block the senses from doing their thing. But it all repeats. And, basically, I would like to either be obsessed with actual freedom or be a functional adult.
So I came across a term after I wrote the above. It seems my issue may fall under the term “maladaptive daydreaming.” And I think it’s the result of feeling ineffectual for all of my adolescence and most of my 20’s, which never fully went away.
The solution seems very simple. Chillax! It will sort itself out. I think I am preferring to be idle at the moment because I am used to having resentments at having to do stuff. Both resentment at having to do it and resenting the actual labor. Even as noticing, over the last several years, it’s quite possible to have fun while doing chores. The resistance has stayed firm. So as the filter caused by impatience and urgency lessens, I think I’ll become more used to having fun, while just doing whatever either needs to get done or whatever I eventually get around to. Eventually, I’ll expect to have fun doing things I had previously avoided. At which point, I won’t avoid thinking about thoss things. If I enjoy working on the basement then I’ll also enjoy thinking about the basement. The more I enjoy poker, the more I’ll think about poker. Not that one has to be productive but I do think there is avoidance going on fueled by resentment, which, in turn, is fueled by an expectation of impatience and even humiliation in some cases.
I’ve been experiencing a similar drive to be productive all the time over the last year as I’ve been working on my construction project, it has given me quite a bit of trouble. I take it for granted that if I’m ‘idle,’ that I ‘should be’ working toward finishing it in some way. A big breakthrough for me was recognizing that sometimes I’m physically tired, and that when I’m physically tired it’s not actually useful to ‘push through’ and work on the house. I’ve been at it for a year and that type of attrition just wears the body down over long periods of time. Anyway, it’s my project and I get to define how it’s done: I’d rather take my time and enjoy the process.
(edit: a significant thing I noticed was that the drive seemed to come from outside of me: I was concerned about what others would think if I didn’t finish ‘fast enough’)
What I’ve experienced is all these moments where I’m sitting ‘idle’ and just looking at all the things I ‘should’ be doing, but I’m not doing them, I’m tired. So lately instead of continuing to do that (as I’m not going to jump up & do ‘x’ anyway) I’ve been just allowing myself to enjoy myself, maybe I still notice this or that, maybe I pay attention to something else instead, but not sitting there wallowing either way.
This is an interesting thing to say which I can recognize in myself, would you be interested in saying more about that?
That avoidance process you describe in the last paragraph seems super on point to me. When there’s universal enjoyment, there’s no great need to avoid this or that, nor is there great need to do this or that. It’s all very light.
It also reminds me of something Richard pointed out to me: am I doing actualism because I want to, or because I feel that I have to? This is significant because it changes the entire mood of how I approach the process… and since the process is the mood, that is everything.
It should be noted that I’m not regarding idleness as an issue. It’s the maladaptive daydreaming avoidance. Moving on to the other topic.
You quote me here:
And reply here:
Not much to say. I had personality disorders and some of the things I do now developed as coping mechanisms.
Right!
That seems right on! Very similar to something Vineeto told me.
I think you outed yourself with the words process and mood. Is it a process or is it this moment? Are we aiming for a mood or do we want to be blown away?
The process is what’s created by the method, which is a way to bring one 100% to this moment. Letting the moment live me.
I use the word ‘mood’ because (for me) it’s a very accessible way to recognize whatever emotion happening in me right now. I don’t think there’s a ceiling on it; one’s mood could be ‘blown away,’ one’s mood could be ‘perfect.’
Some years ago I had an experience that may be of interest to you regarding the maladaptive daydreaming: I had recently broken up with a woman who I had previously been deeply in love with, and I found that I ‘couldn’t’ stop thinking about her. Thoughts of her would pop into my head unbidden almost constantly, and it caused me a large amount of pain. After this continued for awhile, I decided I’d had enough and started looking at what was going on.
What I eventually uncovered for myself was that it was actually unsurprising that I was thinking of her: she had been a big part of my life for the 6 or so years previously. It would actually be quite a surprise if I wasn’t thinking of her! From that point on I regarded it as something that just made sense, something natural: I was thinking of something that was a part of me.
And something very surprising happened at that point: I stopped thinking about her, almost at all. It was as if a switch had been hit within me, and I didn’t care anymore if the thoughts came up. With not caring anymore, there was no reason to think about her anymore.
I was going to edit my post but you commented on the words I was going to edit out. Maladaptive daydreams: I was going to put in avoidance.
I’m surprised anyone is able to just stop thinking about something all of a sudden like that. That must have been a very pleasant relief. For me, it’s the avoidance that’s the issue. So I was gonna sub that word in. Per your story, I, too, tend to let my mind wander wherever it wants. I don’t want to control it. I want it to sort itself out. But unlike your case, my maladaptive daydreams continue. No switch has been hit within me. But like I said in the post, I think they will go away as the avoidance clears up which will go away as the expectation of misery lessens and the expectation for fun increases. Now that is a process!
I didn’t mean to be nitpicky. I was making a valid point. I understand there to be a process in the same way that technically I did the things I did yesterday. However, when we are blown away there is no process: I didn’t do those things yesterday. If I say, while in an EE, process or i did this/that it is just as an intelligence sorting things out after the fact for the purpose of conveying information. Richard uses the word already before now. It is already now, he says. Why already?
Wouldn’t it be better to focus on the “right now”? Again, Richard uses “already now” which is not an invitation to drop the former to more accurately mimic Richard. It’s an invitation to ask the question. Why does he chose those words: Already now and always here. It could just be branding. But I think we touched on why he choses already. And it’s not merely branding.
I’m ok with talking about process, ‘using the method,’ talking in terms of mood, because it’s obvious that right now, there is ‘me.’ That’s for granted, it’s already happening whenever I’m not in PCE. So whenever I’m not in PCE, or not in an out-from-control virtual freedom, then ‘I’ have something to do to ‘jump-start’ everything you’re talking about (‘blown away,’ ‘already now,’ ‘this moment has no duration,’ ‘always now/always here.’)
So the way I see it is, I’m starting from where I am (“being,” in whatever form it is taking right now), and I want to get ‘over there’ (affectively), aka to here, to perfection, to the actual. So I don’t have any problem with saying “I am doing a process,” meaning, “I am doing something” (because it is me, right now, doing it - just like how Richard talks about “I am filled with admiration for the identity which did what was necessary to become free”), and I am doing this process so ‘I’ can disappear, whether that is incrementally into a more wonder-ful space, or completely as in free.
And as I’m incrementally moving, I am more constantly existing in the type of spaces you’re talking about: ‘blown away,’ ‘already now,’ ‘this moment has no duration,’ ‘always now/always here.’
For the first time I see how we all resist change. I never saw it before. I thought people were just either stupid, gullible, cruel and/or tribalistic. And I thought I was open minded yet discerning. But I now have three examples showing me that stupidity¹ is about resisting personal growth² more than anything else. And that it’s universal.
Richard walked me through seeing this only moment on the houseboat about 8 years ago or so. We had been talking about disdain and after walking through the exercise³, Richard specifically asked me: “Where is disdain now?” And I specifically answered: “There’s no room for it.” He practically jumped out of his chair with delight. I didn’t try it out for the rest of the trip! I kid you not. Despite the success and Richard’s obvious approval. I didn’t once do the exercise the rest of the trip. And I may have only tried it out about dozen times since. Until recently that is. And I’m one who has been thinking about happy and harmlessness every single day for about 10 years. Now that is some massive resistance. And I was never even aware of it! It never occurred to me. I just figured I already knew it. Nothing to see here. No need to repeat something so basic.
In a similar vein, sometimes randomly throughout the day, I find ‘myself’ with nowhere to go. I have been doing the exercise³ religiously for over a week now. The evidence for it being now is in front of me anytime I look for it. Yet I don’t want to be here. Yet I am here. That fact speaks for itself. I am here: It is now. I can’t just ignore reality and escape into my good or bad feelings. So ‘I’ am stuck here. On occasion, this will irritate me. At such times, there is only one thing to do and that is eaatomoba. I resist that. Because it will change me. In the end, I have no choice but to do it. But I resist.
On a completely different front: Poker. In poker, I made a couple of mistakes recently and was exposed to a new way of thinking about the game. In effect, I was taken to school.⁴ After the fact, I resisted thinking about what I had just learned. Even though I knew it’d be good for me, I didn’t want to change. I didn’t want to have to think about the game differently. Fortunately, the same phenomenon as example #2, having no where to hide, forced me to relax and let the reflective contemplation continue. There was nowhere to go, because, it’s always here. On top of that, here is pretty cool even when ‘I’ am resisting: It’s shine, if you will, is still noticable. So I felt myself resisting a lesson I had no choice but to endure, because, there was no psychological place I could in good conscious run to. Only any number of rabbit holes of my good and bad feelings. And that doesn’t make any sense whatsoever when it’s already now. And I’m always here.
¹ For lack of a better word
² For lack of a better word
³Starting at a spot and asking yourself what time it is and where you are. Experiencing the answers. Walking forward a few steps and asking yourself again. Experiencing the answers. Walking forward a few more steps and asking yourself again. Experiencing the answers.
⁴ beating someone in a competition badly and thereby teaching them how it’s really done .
Another week has gone by and the same news to report. I am continually asking myself what time it is: where am I? What makes it work so well? It’s really simple. I am fascinated with the answer. Feelings aren’t fascinating. At best, they’re interesting. But the answers to those two questions are fascinating. Fascination is trumping the feelings.
And it’s the fascination with this moment still being now that allows me to see how I tick. A feeling arises. I see it occurred due to this or that. And that connection between trigger and feeling makes me smile. I feel the feeling. I see the trigger. It is interesting but not nearly as interesting as what will happen when I ask myself: what time is it; where am I? The fascination holds all the allure.
I have tried to go deep sea diving a couple of time but no luck as of yet. A few times a bad feeling was especially painful. And I thought that is odd. What’s going on here? I don’t recall resolving the issue. It went away too quickly and though I tried I didn’t get anywhere. But I like that. I’m playing Legos over here in my world. I’m not building the Sistine chapel. It’s all really simple stuff. Feel the feeling ---- spot the trigger. chuckle. Ask myself what time is it: where am I? Experience the answer. Feel fascinated. red lego on top of orange lego on top of green lego on top of blue lego on top of white lego. And voila I have a colorful new rover to explore terra actualis. Though not really, I’m just in EE land: an imitation of the actual.
The mind has been working funny. There hasn’t been much of a guide to it. And it will go where it goes. As long it goes to asking myself the question: what time is it: where am I? Then ‘I’ need not do much. It’s very active. Disconcertingly so. Recently, I spent 8 hours thinking about one singular problem that had two parts. A family squabble. It seemed to have resolved the issue as much as humanly possible. During the whole episode, I was feeling neutral. I would say that’s a big improvement over previous crises.
Today, I got stuck in traffic. And not just any traffic. Self-made traffic. Out of four forks in the road, I chose wrongly three times. lol. You can relate to the frustration. Though I don’t think I would have felt much if I wasn’t playing a game with my gf. I was pretending to care deeply about getting home on time and finding my way. We had a discussion before-hand about routes. I said I’d wing it. And I winged it to a trip twice as long as need be. So I was pretending to be upset for entertainment value but like any good method actor, I was legitimately feeling the frustration. At one point, the frustration reached a significant enough pitch that I was like: Whoa there boy. Where am I? I’m here. Have I really been here this whole trip? Each wrong turn has been here? It certainly seems so. What time is it? It’s still now. Just like the last time I asked! You mean each bumper to bumper minute has been this same moment. Wow! After that I was like no need to play games. I’ll just enjoy the rest of the trip home.
Tomorrow I expect to be sick from my booster shot. It’s already coming on fairly strong. I can’t wait to see how it goes. It’ll probably be fun. Hopefully, it’ll only last a day or even better I wake up fine.
I will attempt to set my mind to self-immolation in the same way I set it to this only moment. I just have to find some good questions and hopefully I become obsessed with them. Currently, the question I am setting my intelligence to is “Am I experiencing separation?” “If so, what do I experience the cause to be?”
I didn’t get very far with the above approach. I saw myself as the separation quite a few times. But I began slipping away from experiencing this moment as having no duration. By Tuesday night, December 14, I seemed to be a bit burned out or something and my obsession with the question HAIETMOBA was no longer there. Attempts to get it back faltered on both the question itself and how I was trying to ask it. 1) I was no longer asking myself when is it? and had begun asking myself the full HAIETMOBA? 2) I was trying to push myself to feel excellent after asking the question by telling myself that it’s always now.
Here are some quotes in some other replies that I made that shows this:
December 15
I’ve been asking HAIETMOBA obsessively. Nothing is clicking. I’ve been asking but with no naiveté. I’ve been demanding the universe make me feel excellent rather than naively sussing out this moment of being alive.
December 16
These last 48 hours I’ve been relating to r(ichard) saying how sorrow is the result of being locked out of paradise…I had to ramp up my obsession with haietmoba? since it’s been waning since Tuesday…Though I want to focus on asking myself when is it? and reflecting on that, changing the question to haietmoba?, for better or worse, has changed my focus. As a result, the obsession is producing less fascination with a fact and more investigation (into feelings)
I like writing about HAIETMOBA?. I prefer using that term. That’s the term people are familiar with. But for me, I need to ask myself when is it? And it’s essential that I keep the question open-ended. I must be naively open as to what the answer may be. And genuinely curious as to what the answer may signify. The answer doesn’t fascinate me otherwise. Moreover, I need to continue doing it 1,000 times a day. I did the math and there are over 57,000 seconds in a waking day. If it takes 30 seconds to naively ask and come up with an answer then there are roughly 1900 chances to ask the question. For me, I am lucky in that less than half my day is occupied by work and peoples. So, for me, 1000 times a day is quite doable. And I think that’s the level of obsession required to be in an EE for most of the day. That is roughly what I’ve been doing since this afternoon. And roughly what I was doing about 5-6 weeks ago when I first started.
The source of sorrow is being locked out of paradise. And sorrow is a method we use to stay within humanity.
Purity is like a ginormous alien spaceship. So big it covers the entire sky. And too alien to be remotely related to humanity. We know within it’s nonindigenous walls, if we were to be wooshed up within it, there is unspeakable delight; the complete absence of fear. Yet we are locked out. Unable to Scotty ourselves up. We have to relinquish ourselves before we are wooshed up. And once relinquished we are no longer human and no longer ourselves. That is the source of sadness.
Maybe the primary objection to self immolation is not being sure whether one wants to be by oneself in a fantastical place that isn’t real vs being among others in a place that is real.
The words depersonalization and derealization come to mind. I just experienced actual not as something that is more real than real or Real2.0 or super real but as something that is unreal. So unreal that the word Actual seemed counter-intuitive. Actual and real being synonyms in normal conversation, I found it at odds with the world I just experienced. A synonym for real didn’t seem to convey how unreal it was. Any word at all could be used to describe it as the place has no parallels. Something conveying a magic like quality well known to be fantastical fiction might convey how unreal it is: Genie land, pixie world, fairy land, a spontaneous song and dance with no choreography and no duration where the stage itself is singing and dancing and there is no audience…
So a question I need to ponder is do I want to live by myself in that completely unreal world of pixie dust and theory-less music and plotless pomp or live with my very real friends and real family and my real tribes and anti-tribes solidly centered in reality. Which, say what you will of it, is, at least, real.
@JonnyPitt: Maybe the primary objection to self immolation is not being sure whether one wants to be by oneself in a fantastical place that isn’t real vs being among others in a place that is real.
The words depersonalization and derealization come to mind. I just experienced actual not as something that is more real than real or Real2.0 or super real but as something that is unreal. So unreal that the word Actual seemed counter-intuitive. Actual and real being synonyms in normal conversation, I found it at odds with the world I just experienced. A synonym for real didn’t seem to convey how unreal it was. Any word at all could be used to describe it as the place has no parallels. Something conveying a magic like quality well known to be fantastical fiction might convey how unreal it is: Genie land, pixie world, fairy land, a spontaneous song and dance with no choreography and no duration where the stage itself is singing and dancing and there is no audience…
So a question I need to ponder is do I want to live by myself in that completely unreal world of pixie dust and theory-less music and plotless pomp or live with my very real friends and real family and my real tribes and anti-tribes solidly centered in reality. Which, say what you will of it, is, at least, real.
Ha, what a brilliant cynical put-down of an actual freedom from the human condition, by someone who likes bluffing [link], because in reality he is afraid to leave his seemingly safe cage when the doors are wide open, and he could instead enjoy and appreciate this moment of being alive.
It’s funny cos the other day @Sonyaxx was looking at AI generations of her favourite fiction books and looking at those pictures of a magical wonderland I said to her “this is what a PCE is like”. Of course there’s no monsters and elf’s but those qualities that @Vineeto described below also come to mind :
Since then I experience myself as what I am, not just this physical body but with particular qualities to the experiencing which to my own surprise I called ‘what I always wanted to be/what I have always been’ even though I have never lived it. For an analogy of how I experience what I am at core I have to go into the Greek mythology where people’s imagination had populated nature with nymphs, inherent/chthonic to springs or trees or groves.
Whenever I experience this quality, often it’s fleeting, like a flash. The perfection is so deep and rich that my only response is ever “I can’t believe I am missing out on this all the time”. That experience is so precious that it’s way beyond anything in the real world. It is kind of crazy that ‘I’ can be finding ways to put it down.
having thought about it now I can see it is number 2.